*Official* Denon AVR 2309CI/889 Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum

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Receivers, Amps, and Processors

RMSko's Avatar RMSko
02:57 PM Liked: 15
post #91 of 3197
08-17-2008 | Posts: 1,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclamais View Post

I did before I posted, but I don't see it at $749 anymore. It's now full list.

Exactly as the quote before just said. You just have to call ext 1015 (Jacques) and he should give it to you for $749. It was list online when he gave me that price.
1MaNArmY's Avatar 1MaNArmY
04:53 PM Liked: 10
post #92 of 3197
08-17-2008 | Posts: 660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhunter View Post

1MaNArmY,

I'll pickup my 2309 at the local UPS center in about 3 hours (I wasn't home today). Before setting it up, I'll pull the top cover off and take a peek inside.

cool take a picture and upload it
1MaNArmY's Avatar 1MaNArmY
04:58 PM Liked: 10
post #93 of 3197
08-17-2008 | Posts: 660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclamais View Post

I did before I posted, but I don't see it at $749 anymore. It's now full list.

you have to call JR and tell them you are an AVS'er (member) to get the deal.
mclamais's Avatar mclamais
10:38 AM Liked: 10
post #94 of 3197
08-18-2008 | Posts: 27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talen316 View Post

I don't think the J&R website ever showed it at the pre-order price of $749. If you call soon, you may still be able to get in on that price. I spoke to Jacques late last week and he was still able to offer that price. If you're interested, I wouldn't wait much longer though.

Thanks, you were correct, I ordered it this morning at $749.00.

Thank,

Marc
RMSko's Avatar RMSko
06:26 PM Liked: 15
post #95 of 3197
08-18-2008 | Posts: 1,066
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Am I right that, even if "Convert" is set to "On", the 2309 will NOT do any processing of any digital signal and that it will only upconvert analog signals (and since I have DTV, which is all digital, it will not do any processing)?
batpig's Avatar batpig
09:22 PM Liked: 1607
post #96 of 3197
08-18-2008 | Posts: 25,066
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I'm almost 100% sure that the 2309 is incapable of processing a digital video signal at all. I think only the 3808ci and up lets you do that.

On my 2307ci, I have confirmed with test patterns that the HDMI signal is untouched -- calibrated the HDMI input with a direct connection, and then routed the HDMI through the receiver and the calibration was identical. I don't see why the 2309ci would screw that up, it's just video passthrough.
T2k's Avatar T2k
09:32 PM Liked: 11
post #97 of 3197
08-18-2008 | Posts: 3,930
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Are you sure? INteresting. Dealing with digital-only seems to be cheaper than doing AD first...
Elkhunter's Avatar Elkhunter
09:49 PM Liked: 10
post #98 of 3197
08-18-2008 | Posts: 316
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The chip in my 2309 is a Genesis FLI 2310-LF.

Using DV, the volume level varies more than I expected between the Day, Evening and Midnight settings. I checked the volume level using the Fantastic 4 RSS BD disc, keeping the master volume at "0", and got these readings:

Day: Dance floor @ 12:30= 90dB, Kitchen scene @ 15:00= 77dB.
Evening: Dance floor @ 12:30= 84dB, Kitchen scene @ 15:00= 72dB.
Midnight: Dance floor @ 12:30= 78dB, Kitchen scene @ 15:00= 68dB.

So, to maintain the same playback volume, you need to increase/decrease the master volume by about 5dB between settings. I expected that the volume in the kitchen scene (talking) would be the same with all 3 settings: with only the dynamic range,e.g., the dance floor changing. Not so.
RMSko's Avatar RMSko
06:47 AM Liked: 15
post #99 of 3197
08-19-2008 | Posts: 1,066
Joined: Sep 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I'm almost 100% sure that the 2309 is incapable of processing a digital video signal at all. I think only the 3808ci and up lets you do that.

On my 2307ci, I have confirmed with test patterns that the HDMI signal is untouched -- calibrated the HDMI input with a direct connection, and then routed the HDMI through the receiver and the calibration was identical. I don't see why the 2309ci would screw that up, it's just video passthrough.

I think this is right. I have a DTV HR20 and tested this by setting the HR20 at480i, 720p and 1080i, all with Convert to "On". I then pressed the "info" button on my TV's remote and each time it reflected that the signal was the exact same as the signal coming from my HR20. I assume this means no processing b/c if it was processed, I would expect that my TV would reflect a 1080p signal coming in (my TV is 1080p).
batpig's Avatar batpig
10:26 AM Liked: 1607
post #100 of 3197
08-19-2008 | Posts: 25,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T2k View Post

Are you sure? INteresting. Dealing with digital-only seems to be cheaper than doing AD first...

You'd think that, but I guess it's not true because most lower-end receivers don't allow video processing on digital video, it's only the analog->HDMI conversion where they let you do it. I've heard it's an HDCP issue, but who knows...

I'm sure you've read this article:
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/608recfeat/

In the 3808ci section, they say: "The AVR-3808CI is one of only a few AVRs in this roundup that will let you apply video processing to incoming HDMI signals."

In the Sony section: "Sony seems to be incorporating the same stance as most of the other companies by not allowing video processing of incoming HDMI signals."

Even high-end models in that roundup, like the RX-V3800 and Sony 4300ES don't offer video processing of digital video.

And if you dig into the Denon manuals, there is cryptic information about "analog to HDMI" conversion but never a mention of digital processing, until you get to the 3808ci manual...
slbosse's Avatar slbosse
02:26 PM Liked: 10
post #101 of 3197
08-19-2008 | Posts: 248
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Another difference I see when looking at the Denon website "Compare" is this:

Speaker Time-Delay and Level Controls: L/R, Sub, C, Surr. L/R, Surround Back

For the 2309 this is checked, but for the 1909 it is not. This would indicate that if you want to be able to adjust these things manually (vs. letting Audyssey do it all), you would need the 2309. Can anyone confirm whether this is correct or not?
T2k's Avatar T2k
02:44 PM Liked: 11
post #102 of 3197
08-19-2008 | Posts: 3,930
Joined: May 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

You'd think that, but I guess it's not true because most lower-end receivers don't allow video processing on digital video, it's only the analog->HDMI conversion where they let you do it. I've heard it's an HDCP issue, but who knows...

I'm sure you've read this article:
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/608recfeat/

In the 3808ci section, they say: "The AVR-3808CI is one of only a few AVRs in this roundup that will let you apply video processing to incoming HDMI signals."

In the Sony section: "Sony seems to be incorporating the same stance as most of the other companies by not allowing video processing of incoming HDMI signals."

Even high-end models in that roundup, like the RX-V3800 and Sony 4300ES don't offer video processing of digital video.

And if you dig into the Denon manuals, there is cryptic information about "analog to HDMI" conversion but never a mention of digital processing, until you get to the 3808ci manual...

I still think it's just some cost issue - both new HK do full VP, analog or digital, to 1080p, form *any* source.

The HDCP limitation I'm aware of is that you cannot pass 1080p over component.
grap3's Avatar grap3
03:45 PM Liked: 10
post #103 of 3197
08-19-2008 | Posts: 120
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Anyone that's still interested in the $749 price at J&R it was still available today as I ordered a few hours ago. Keep in mind that the guy's in NY so he's in EST time zone. Completely slipped my mind last night.

Oh, and it's no longer a preorder price as they currently have them in stock. I didn't know this until Jacques informed me.
allthesecables's Avatar allthesecables
11:19 PM Liked: 10
post #104 of 3197
08-19-2008 | Posts: 1
Joined: Aug 2008
I have a problem!!! My "EXT-IN" is stuck on and I cant shut it off. I dont use ext-in. I use HDMI for my audio in for everything. I press the input mode button until it says auto and it defaults back to ext-in so I have no audio except in tuner mode. Anybody experience the same thing?
batpig's Avatar batpig
12:27 AM Liked: 1607
post #105 of 3197
08-20-2008 | Posts: 25,066
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try a microprocessor reset, instructions are in the manual

are you seeing this for all inputs or just one specific one?
Q of BanditZ's Avatar Q of BanditZ
07:21 AM Liked: 10
post #106 of 3197
08-21-2008 | Posts: 15,242
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I skimmed this thread and I don't think all of this was covered so here are some requests for owners when they get a chance:

Test/look for: DTS bomb (you've seen that subject around I'm sure), LFE bug (probably not.)

Video: Test to make sure that video pass through is not negatively affected in any way. No BTB bug. No white crush, no black crush, no clipping, etc.

^^ All these sorts of things.
batpig's Avatar batpig
10:20 AM Liked: 1607
post #107 of 3197
08-21-2008 | Posts: 25,066
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Except for the DTS-MA thing (which didn't exist), Denon got all of those things correct on their very first HDMI models (3806/2807/2307) so I don't think they'd suddenly start screwing up now. HDMI-equipped Denons have never had the LFE bug or video clipping, so I think we're safe, although it's always nice to confirm with a test pattern. Somebody has already confirmed with DVE that the 1909 doesn't crush/clip video information, so I don't think the 2309 will have a problem.
tvted's Avatar tvted
12:35 PM Liked: 10
post #108 of 3197
08-21-2008 | Posts: 3,583
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Anyone tried the PHONO section of this box yet?

ted
T2k's Avatar T2k
12:44 PM Liked: 11
post #109 of 3197
08-21-2008 | Posts: 3,930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Except for the DTS-MA thing (which didn't exist), Denon got all of those things correct on their very first HDMI models (3806/2807/2307) so I don't think they'd suddenly start screwing up now. HDMI-equipped Denons have never had the LFE bug or video clipping, so I think we're safe, although it's always nice to confirm with a test pattern. Somebody has already confirmed with DVE that the 1909 doesn't crush/clip video information, so I don't think the 2309 will have a problem.

Smoeone already reported seeing crushed blacks, IIRC in the 1909 thread - what's up with him?
batpig's Avatar batpig
12:58 PM Liked: 1607
post #110 of 3197
08-21-2008 | Posts: 25,066
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something was probably set up wrong, there hasn't been any follow up to that and he never confirmed it with a test pattern.
sahmen's Avatar sahmen
02:28 PM Liked: 11
post #111 of 3197
08-21-2008 | Posts: 288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

You'd think that, but I guess it's not true because most lower-end receivers don't allow video processing on digital video, it's only the analog->HDMI conversion where they let you do it. I've heard it's an HDCP issue, but who knows...

I'm sure you've read this article:
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/608recfeat/

In the 3808ci section, they say: "The AVR-3808CI is one of only a few AVRs in this roundup that will let you apply video processing to incoming HDMI signals."

In the Sony section: "Sony seems to be incorporating the same stance as most of the other companies by not allowing video processing of incoming HDMI signals."

Even high-end models in that roundup, like the RX-V3800 and Sony 4300ES don't offer video processing of digital video.

And if you dig into the Denon manuals, there is cryptic information about "analog to HDMI" conversion but never a mention of digital processing, until you get to the 3808ci manual...

Does this imply that once TV signals go fully Digital, all video-processing and/or scaling of Cabletv/Sat signals on Denon 2809/889 and below are going to stop?

I use a comcast hdtv receiver which is normally connected via component to my Sony Bravia, and by optical audio cableto my 2802. I was hoping to connect it via hdmi to the 988, and later to the 989, but if there is not going to be any video processing/scaling, I might consider sticking to the present combination.

On a related note, unless I'm missing something, I have not found hdmi==>receiver processing of cable tv audio signals to be anything special By the way, can Cable + Sat tv broadcast any audio signals that are more advanced than the standard Dolby Digital/DTS ones? So far, those are the ones I seem to get off my CATV experience: I have never seen any indication that the HD audio formats (Dolby True Hd and DTS Master Audio) are included in the signals I get from my cable service, but then again, I have never used and hdmi receiver before, so I cannot conclusively tell. Is this a mistaken idea?
penngray's Avatar penngray
02:38 PM Liked: 30
post #112 of 3197
08-21-2008 | Posts: 26,779
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Component video will exist for a long time...is that what you are asking?
JohnAV's Avatar JohnAV
03:20 PM Liked: 84
post #113 of 3197
08-21-2008 | Posts: 6,540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

By the way, can Cable + Sat tv broadcast any audio signals that are more advanced than the standard Dolby Digital/DTS ones? So far, those are the ones I seem to get off my CATV experience: I have never seen any indication that the HD audio formats (Dolby True Hd and DTS Master Audio) are included in the signals I get from my cable service, but then again, I have never used and hdmi receiver before, so I cannot conclusively tell. Is this a mistaken idea?

HD audio formats (Dolby True Hd and DTS Master Audio) are only available from Blu-ray or HD-DVD media. HD broadcasts use Dolby Digital 5.1.
T2k's Avatar T2k
04:16 PM Liked: 11
post #114 of 3197
08-21-2008 | Posts: 3,930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

Does this imply that once TV signals go fully Digital, all video-processing and/or scaling of Cabletv/Sat signals on Denon 2809/889 and below are going to stop?

No. Digital (a.k.a. compressed crap ) has nothing to do with HD by default and I have a strong feeling that it is quite some years away when all channels will come in 1080p to match your panel's native resolution thus eliminate the need for scaling.
jsprague's Avatar jsprague
05:33 PM Liked: 10
post #115 of 3197
08-21-2008 | Posts: 80
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My 2309 showed up today

Anyone that has seen my posts knows that I'm a total noob but I'll throw out some early impressions along with some dumb questions..

Nice lookin reciever, seems heavy and well built. Was a little underwelmed with the text on the reciever and extremely underwelmed by the setup GUI, I would feel ever worse if I got the 2909 like I wanted!

Audessy setup seemed quick and painless..

Ok, dumb questions...... I don't have rear speakers so am intending on running a 3.1 setup, front R/L, Center and Sub.

What is the best surround mode for 3.1 setup?

I was expecting to see Dolby digital or one of the fancy new settings but didn't see those options available?

I only looked at a DVD which I have connected through hdmi and it originaly set the audio to Stereo, when I turned the volumne up I had to turn it WAY up to about -10 dB to get a decsent volume (just like gamer2600), is this normal? Same volume on the FM radio and that's as far as I've gotter.....

I'll post more tomorrow after I've really played with it but wanted to get a post out
batpig's Avatar batpig
06:03 PM Liked: 1607
post #116 of 3197
08-21-2008 | Posts: 25,066
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You need to make sure to tell the Denon in setup (if Audyssey didn't do it for you) that you are running 3.1 (i.e. make sure it says "NO" for SURR and SURR.BACK in the setup).

Then, just select whatever sound mode you want. The Denon will automatically downmix the input signal to your 3.1 setup. There is no optimal mode, just whatever sounds best to you.

I run 3.1 with my 2307ci, works fine this way. I usually just leave it in "Standard" mode for most things, i.e. Dolby Digital for Dolby Digital, DTS for DTS, whatever. I alternate between the various matrixing modes for 2-channel content depending on source. For most TV watching I use Pro Logic Cinema mode, sometimes Music mode, sometimes I hit the 5/7CH STEREO mode.
JohnAV's Avatar JohnAV
06:35 PM Liked: 84
post #117 of 3197
08-21-2008 | Posts: 6,540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsprague View Post

Nice lookin reciever, seems heavy and well built. Was a little underwelmed with the text on the reciever and extremely underwelmed by the setup GUI, I would feel ever worse if I got the 2909 like I wanted!

Icon/Text GUI versus Graphic GUI achieves the same thing. It's not like you must constantly view the menu, so why would this bother you? Only requirement I have is being able to configuration the Denon receiver as needed.

BTW you meant the 2809.
jsprague's Avatar jsprague
06:50 PM Liked: 10
post #118 of 3197
08-21-2008 | Posts: 80
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oh yeah, 2809

truth is I don't really care what the GUI looks like but it's been discussed a lot and ya gotta admit it is FUUUUUGLY

Only reason it bothered me is my girlfriend was over and it doesn't look very impressive on the screen
nilsp's Avatar nilsp
12:05 AM Liked: 10
post #119 of 3197
08-22-2008 | Posts: 1,225
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Ah... Good point!
sahmen's Avatar sahmen
08:04 AM Liked: 11
post #120 of 3197
08-22-2008 | Posts: 288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Component video will exist for a long time...is that what you are asking?


No I was thinking more of the digital tv signal itself that is fed to the receiver via hdmi, and the receiver's ability to process that digital signal..... The question was provoked by the following remark:

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I'm almost 100% sure that the 2309 is incapable of processing a digital video signal at all. I think only the 3808ci and up lets you do that.

This comment seemed to raise the question as to whether the receivers within the range of 2xxx/9xx and below were capable of doing any processing or scaling of digital tv video signals at all--Unless I'm misunderstanding something about the transfer of digital tv video signals?
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