*Official* Denon AVR 2309CI/889 Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 3209 Old 08-22-2008, 10:33 AM
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Played with my 2309 some more last night, got the sub up to a descent level using the manual setup. I'm noob but it seems to do a very good job with the soundstage across my front 3 speakers (I'm only running a 3.1 setup).

I've got a couple questions I'll prob have to post in the speaker area but I'll give a shot here.

I'm still listening at really high levels do get descent volumne, about -5 dB, does this sound like a red flag to anyone?

My two front speakers a little older JBL floor standing speakers, the 2309 set them to large, I set the crossover freq for the sub at 80 hz. It also let's me set a crossover freq for the fronts and the center, currently set to 60 hz, should I change that to 80 hz or is it good to have some overlap. I've got a nice sub, mfw-15 so want that to handle as much of the bass if possible.

Other strange thing which I'm sure I'll work out, the dvd keeps defaulting to Stereo for the surround mode and then I manually change it.. What do I do to keep it at a default dolby digital setting? I'm using an hdmi dvd player (not blu ray or hddvd).

Thanks
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post #122 of 3209 Old 08-22-2008, 11:14 AM
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Quote:


I'm still listening at really high levels do get descent volumne, about -5 dB, does this sound like a red flag to anyone?

My two front speakers a little older JBL floor standing speakers, the 2309 set them to large, I set the crossover freq for the sub at 80 hz. It also let's me set a crossover freq for the fronts and the center, currently set to 60 hz, should I change that to 80 hz or is it good to have some overlap. I've got a nice sub, mfw-15 so want that to handle as much of the bass if possible.

If you've got older, inefficient speakers, you may need to crank the volume more to get the sound level you need. On my setup, -20 to -25 is blasting for music, I don't think I would ever go to anything higher than -10.... but on HD movies, I'm regularly at -10. So it's not necessarily anything to be alarmed about.

You should set the sub's crossover higher, at 120Hz -- this is a high-pass filter for the LFE track, if you set it too low you will lose a little LFE info (check out the audyssey thread and read about sub settings). This is separate from the speaker crossovers, they don't necessarily need to match up.

For your front towers, you have three options with the Denon:

1. Set them to Large, set SUB to LFE only -- the towers will play full range, and the Sub will get LFE signals only (plus crossed-over low frequencies from your center which I assume is set to SMALL).

2. Set them to Large, set SUB to LFE+MAIN. The towers will play full range, the sub will get LFE and ALSO will "double up" the low-end bass below the crossover frequency. For example if you set fronts to LARGE, sub to LFE+MAIN, and crossover the fronts at 60Hz, the fronts will play everything (20Hz-20kHz), the Sub will play LFE, and the sub will also double up the bass on the fronts below 60Hz.

3. Set your fronts to SMALL, cross them over at 60Hz or 80Hz, and just let your nice sub do all the heavy lifting. This will take some of the load off your receiver, since the low-frequencies will be driven by the sub's amp, and you may find this helps with the volume issue as the receiver doesn't have to work so hard.


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Other strange thing which I'm sure I'll work out, the dvd keeps defaulting to Stereo for the surround mode and then I manually change it.. What do I do to keep it at a default dolby digital setting? I'm using an hdmi dvd player (not blu ray or hddvd).

First, make sure that "AUTO SURROUND" is set to yes in the setup of the Denon, so it remembers your settings.

But, this sounds more like a DVD player settings issue. I bet you are sending two-channel and the Denon wants to go to Stereo. Make sure in your DVD player (I assume you are using HDMI for audio and video, right?) that the HDMI audio settings are set to "bitstream" or something like that.

One way to check is to look at the display of your 2309 and see what channels you are receiving. Play a normal DVD that you know has a 5.1 soundtrack (either DD or DTS, whatever) and select that soundtrack, play the DVD, and look at your display -- on the left side it shows what input channels you are getting, on the left it shows the channels it is outputting.

If only two squares are lit up on the left, then the Denon is only receiving two-channel info and you need to change a setting on your DVD player.

You can also press the "STATUS" button, on the left below the display, and it will tell you what you are getting. If it says "PCM 44.1 kHz" then you are getting 2-channel from the DVD player. It should say "DOLBY DIGITAL 3/2/.1" or something similar for a 5.1 soundtrack.

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post #123 of 3209 Old 08-22-2008, 11:46 AM
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Thanks Batpig, you have been printed and will be referenced tonight!

When I read your post I thought, what's LFE

Low Freq Effects channel for the Sub... just learned about it from this article..

http://audiodesignlabs.com/wordpress...ss-management/

ya know it's funny, compared to the average best buy shmuck I know a lot about home theatre.... but in here I'm a total nubie!
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post #124 of 3209 Old 08-22-2008, 12:09 PM
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definitely do some reading on some of the AVR and audio FAQ's stickied at the top of this forum and other audio forums. Once you gain an understanding of how multi-channel audio works, what LFE and crossovers are, etc. it will make much more sense when you are trying to set up your system. Also read up in the Audyssey thread, this will help give you some clarity about what Audyssey is actually doing and how to correctly manage its settings.

As an aside, I would recommend that, if you have a nice sub, you set all of your speakers to "small". Cross over at 60 or 80Hz (try em both and see which sounds better) and let the sub do the grunt work down low.

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post #125 of 3209 Old 08-24-2008, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

definitely do some reading on some of the AVR and audio FAQ's stickied at the top of this forum and other audio forums. Once you gain an understanding of how multi-channel audio works, what LFE and crossovers are, etc. it will make much more sense when you are trying to set up your system. Also read up in the Audyssey thread, this will help give you some clarity about what Audyssey is actually doing and how to correctly manage its settings.

As an aside, I would recommend that, if you have a nice sub, you set all of your speakers to "small". Cross over at 60 or 80Hz (try em both and see which sounds better) and let the sub do the grunt work down low.

For this, are you referring to the cross over of the speakers? If yes, would you agree that the cross over for the sub should be at 120Hz?

If I've already run auto setup and then go into manual and change some of the speaker settings, will it only effect the settings that I change, or does it cause the entire auto setup to be disregarded? I had a Yamaha and with that if you changed any manual setting, the auto settings didn't hold any more.

One thing that's a bit of a pain with the setup is that if you run auto setup a second time, you have to go back in and reselect some of the manual settings (e.g., the dynamic volume setting). Is there any way to make this setting hold?

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post #126 of 3209 Old 08-24-2008, 09:25 AM
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I was talking about the speaker crossovers, not the LFE high-pass (which should be left at 120Hz from what I understand). Yes, you can alter the crossovers after Audyssey runs and it will still use the audyssey eq filters, please check out the Audyssey thread, I am just paraphrasing from what I have read there, I am no expert.... my 2307ci doesn't even have Audyssey!

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post #127 of 3209 Old 08-24-2008, 11:06 AM
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Help! Please!
Ok, just got the 2809 last night and everything seemed to be working great. Its late so I turn on PS3, select an album and it starts to play, sounds great, so I decide to turn off just the TV and plan to keep listening to the album. But, no sound now, receiver still on but absolutely no sound out. Turn on TV and sound comes back on. Strange, so then I try same thing with cable box, tune to cable music station, great sound, but once again when I turn off TV (Samsung DLP HLxxA750) there is no sound. All connections are via HDMI at that point. Then I try hooking Optical cable to cable box to see if it is a quirk with HDMI but same thing happens with optical cable. I tried setting source to HDMI, then to AUTO, then tried multiple ways with the HDMI control on/off +/- with Power Off Control, still no luck. Argh!

So my question, is there a super secret way to still here my audio when the TV is off? There has got to be a way and I know I'm missing something. Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance.
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post #128 of 3209 Old 08-24-2008, 03:47 PM
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Ghostcow,

If you do not have any external speakers hooked up to the Denon, but are only using the TV's internal speakers, then the TV must be on for you to hear any sound.

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post #129 of 3209 Old 08-24-2008, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostcow View Post

Help! Please!
Ok, just got the 2809 last night and everything seemed to be working great. Its late so I turn on PS3, select an album and it starts to play, sounds great, so I decide to turn off just the TV and plan to keep listening to the album. But, no sound now, receiver still on but absolutely no sound out. Turn on TV and sound comes back on. Strange, so then I try same thing with cable box, tune to cable music station, great sound, but once again when I turn off TV (Samsung DLP HLxxA750) there is no sound. All connections are via HDMI at that point. Then I try hooking Optical cable to cable box to see if it is a quirk with HDMI but same thing happens with optical cable. I tried setting source to HDMI, then to AUTO, then tried multiple ways with the HDMI control on/off +/- with Power Off Control, still no luck. Argh!

So my question, is there a super secret way to still here my audio when the TV is off? There has got to be a way and I know I'm missing something. Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

CD/DVD player (PS3) should be set to HDMI1 if using that port. The default quick set 1 should have worked for you if PS3 audio output is correct if using HDMI to receiver and then HDMI output to monitor. I like that question about "any speakers hooked to receiver"?

BTW don't forget that their is already a 2809/989 thread.

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post #130 of 3209 Old 08-24-2008, 05:03 PM
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Mike, yes full 5.1 set of speakers and everything is plugged in

JohnAV, yep PS3 is to HDMI 1, PCM to AVR and works great with streaming audio files and blu ray movies, but...if I turn off the TV the sound goes away but the AVR stays exactly the same on front panel, i.e. power on and multi ch output showing, but no sound. I did put the video and leave it in the on screen menu of AVR and then i would get 2 seconds of sound then quiet then 2 seconds of sound the quiet, just kept repeating, very strange.
My comcast cable box, hooked HDMI 3? (satellite input) ,does exact same thing, sounds great when TV is on but no sound when TV off. Hmm, I've got a non-monoprice HDMI cable which I will try from AVR to TV and see if this makes a difference.

Ya, I read through the whole 1909 thread because it had the most posts and, trust me, after reading through that 2309 looks just like 2809! Then I didn't want to double post, well at least not yet, plus I was hoping batpig would chime in since he/she always seems to know whats going on with these receivers.

Thanks again.
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post #131 of 3209 Old 08-24-2008, 05:54 PM
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Ok, I maybe talking to myself here but...maybe someone will search and have same problem.
I think the problem is with the TV, the Samsung HL750, I tried a different HDMI cable, no change. However, when I changed the input source displayed on the TV from HDMI 1 (from the AVR) to TV (which OTA signal) and then turn off the TV I continue to get the audio from the AVR. This will work but is pretty cumbersome. I'm thinking this might be due to a samsung "feature," the Anynet+ feature, oh well will start searching the Samsung threads to see if anyone else has narrowed the problem down. Still open to an ideas, Cheers!
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post #132 of 3209 Old 08-24-2008, 06:21 PM
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PLease, someone do me (us) a favor and check BTB/WTW through 889/2309CI - I have to know this to pull the trigger on what my 354 will be exchanged for tomorrow or Tuesday... TIA!
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post #133 of 3209 Old 08-25-2008, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostcow View Post

Help! Please!
Ok, just got the 2809 last night and everything seemed to be working great. Its late so I turn on PS3, select an album and it starts to play, sounds great, so I decide to turn off just the TV and plan to keep listening to the album. But, no sound now, receiver still on but absolutely no sound out. Turn on TV and sound comes back on. Strange, so then I try same thing with cable box, tune to cable music station, great sound, but once again when I turn off TV (Samsung DLP HLxxA750) there is no sound. All connections are via HDMI at that point. Then I try hooking Optical cable to cable box to see if it is a quirk with HDMI but same thing happens with optical cable. I tried setting source to HDMI, then to AUTO, then tried multiple ways with the HDMI control on/off +/- with Power Off Control, still no luck. Argh!

So my question, is there a super secret way to still here my audio when the TV is off? There has got to be a way and I know I'm missing something. Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

It's actually a feature you can turn off in the setup menu, under HDMI (I think). It was off on my 2309CI (which is super sweet, just got it Friday) by default and I had to turn it on.

I've got the same model tv as well and it's quite handy because I have the tv set up with a turn off timer for those nights where I fall asleep watching tv because the speakers now turn off as well.
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post #134 of 3209 Old 08-25-2008, 07:48 PM
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Grap3,
LOL, that is funny that my problem fits your needs. i always like to sleep with music on, TV off, so anynet is off is the way to go for me.
Cheers!
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post #135 of 3209 Old 08-26-2008, 12:02 AM
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I have my PS3 hooked up directly to the TV. How do i get audio there is no option to set the receiver to monitor.
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post #136 of 3209 Old 08-26-2008, 09:21 AM
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I don't know what you are talking about when you say "no option to set receiver to monitor", but whatever you do you need a direct audio connection to the receiver from the PS3. You basically have two options:

1. Connect PS3 to receiver with HDMI, then connect receiver to TV with HDMI -- all the audio and video will pass through the receiver.

2. Leave the PS3 connected to the TV, but also run a separate optical toslink cable to the receiver. Now the video will go straight to TV, audio will go straight to receiver, but the disadvantage to this scenario is you won't be getting the highest quality sound if you watch a blu ray, since you can only send hi-res audio over HDMI.

Either way, you will probably have to change the settings on your PS3, but this is really not a Denon issue so you should check out the PS3 areas for more help. Good luck!

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post #137 of 3209 Old 08-26-2008, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I don't know what you are talking about when you say "no option to set receiver to monitor", but whatever you do you need a direct audio connection to the receiver from the PS3. You basically have two options:

1. Connect PS3 to receiver with HDMI, then connect receiver to TV with HDMI -- all the audio and video will pass through the receiver.

2. Leave the PS3 connected to the TV, but also run a separate optical toslink cable to the receiver. Now the video will go straight to TV, audio will go straight to receiver, but the disadvantage to this scenario is you won't be getting the highest quality sound if you watch a blu ray, since you can only send hi-res audio over HDMI.

Either way, you will probably have to change the settings on your PS3, but this is really not a Denon issue so you should check out the PS3 areas for more help. Good luck!

Thank you for your response. If i hook it up to the denon receiver do you know what my playstation 3 setting should be.
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post #138 of 3209 Old 08-26-2008, 02:11 PM
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I'm sorry, I don't have a PS3, so I can't give specifics. But if you run HDMI through the receiver, then to the TV, you'll want to set the PS3 to bitstream legacy codecs (Dolby Digital and DTS) and send PCM for hi-res codecs (DD+, True HD, etc).

Check out the PS3 threads, there's probably a FAQ there that can address this.

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post #139 of 3209 Old 08-28-2008, 08:24 AM
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Hi, could someone please explain what the implications are of the 2809 having "2 -21366 x 1 and 21367 x 1 32-bit Floating Point" whereas the 2309 has "1 - 21367 32-bit Floating Point"? Seems like twice the processing power is a lot but I don't know when/how this is used. Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere - I've tried to look.

Thanks.
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post #140 of 3209 Old 08-28-2008, 09:46 AM
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I think primarily it allows for the higher resolution processing of Audyssey MultEQ XT (instead of regular MultEQ) and AL24+ processing.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14532855

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post #141 of 3209 Old 08-28-2008, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by njdcampbell View Post

Hi, could someone please explain what the implications are of the 2809 having "2 -21366 x 1 and 21367 x 1 32-bit Floating Point" whereas the 2309 has "1 - 21367 32-bit Floating Point"? Seems like twice the processing power is a lot but I don't know when/how this is used. Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere - I've tried to look.

Thanks.

I'm guessing it has less options to apply expansions - e.g. no 5.1->7.1 when decoding lossless HD codecs etc - but I may be off on this.
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post #142 of 3209 Old 08-28-2008, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think primarily it allows for the higher resolution processing of Audyssey MultEQ XT (instead of regular MultEQ) and AL24+ processing.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14532855

This could be another reason, indeed.
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post #143 of 3209 Old 08-28-2008, 09:56 AM
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I think all these 7.1 HDMI denons can do PLIIx to go 5.1 to 7.1, even with HD codecs. It can certainly do it with 5.1 PCM....

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post #144 of 3209 Old 08-28-2008, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think all these 7.1 HDMI denons can do PLIIx to go 5.1 to 7.1, even with HD codecs. It can certainly do it with 5.1 PCM....

PLIIx is pretty outdated, IMO.
The 2809 lists some Dynamic Discrete Surround Circuit IIRC...
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post #145 of 3209 Old 08-28-2008, 11:16 AM
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Will the 2309 handle 4ohm speakers?
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post #146 of 3209 Old 08-28-2008, 07:30 PM
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I've got a small issue that I can't seem to find a fix for in the manual. Every time I turn the thing on it defaults to CBL/TV instead of the last input I was on. How can I change it to default to the last connection it was on?
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post #147 of 3209 Old 08-28-2008, 08:51 PM
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I've got a small issue that I can't seem to find a fix for in the manual. Every time I turn the thing on it defaults to CBL/TV instead of the last input I was on. How can I change it to default to the last connection it was on?

I have the same problem
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post #148 of 3209 Old 08-29-2008, 06:26 AM
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Wow, that's a plus for me if true - I'll use it with the EDGE so I could be sure that every time my wife turns the thing on it always goes with the right audio (scaler has a priority feature and passes down the audio.)
BTW if everything goes fine I'm picking up my 2309CI after returning my 354...
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post #149 of 3209 Old 08-29-2008, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
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Will the 2309 handle 4ohm speakers?

Read the manual on Denon's website. I believe the manual says that 4-ohm mains are ok.

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post #150 of 3209 Old 08-29-2008, 06:00 PM
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GOing through the measurements... why on Earth the remote doesn't work by default for the menu?
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Denon Avr 2309ci Receiver
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