*Official* Denon AVR 2309CI/889 Thread - Page 51 - AVS Forum
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post #1501 of 3197 Old 02-05-2009, 12:23 PM
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Noob here....Just purchased the 2309ci..and i'm far from knowing anything about setting up a good ss....I always bought boxed packages..(speakers, receiver, dvd player in a box).....here is my question....I bought the receiver...but, i still havent purchased the speakers. I still have my cheap wooden boxed sony speakers set up...will they sound good or do i need to purchase speakers asap? Please take it easy on this noob...lol
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post #1502 of 3197 Old 02-05-2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexsta View Post

Noob here....Just purchased the 2309ci..and i'm far from knowing anything about setting up a good ss....I always bought boxed packages..(speakers, receiver, dvd player in a box).....here is my question....I bought the receiver...but, i still havent purchased the speakers. I still have my cheap wooden boxed sony speakers set up...will they sound good or do i need to purchase speakers asap? Please take it easy on this noob...lol

Plug them in, setup the 2309 following batpig's guide, listen to some music and watch some movies.

If you like everything and you're happy, you're done.

That said, I'm betting that you could probably improve on "cheap wooden boxed sony speakers", given how you've described them! Go to a local Magnolia or somewhere else with a demo room and ask them to let you hear some speakers in your budget range.
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post #1503 of 3197 Old 02-05-2009, 12:43 PM
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they should be OK for now, but there is no point in getting a fancy receiver if you don't get some nice new speakers to match up!! The only thing to worry about is if your old "theater in a box" speakers have some proprietary connection that won't work with regular speaker posts. You may have to do a little work (cutting and stripping wire) to make the connection to the receiver.

There are many solid "budget" speaker options out there, head over to the speaker forum and browse through the last few pages of threads, you will find many "please recommend me speakers for $$$$?" threads that will teach you a lot.

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post #1504 of 3197 Old 02-05-2009, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMc73 View Post

Ok, I did the test with the on/off of the ip scaler...and well its really hard to tell, both look really good. My test subject was just playing a game of Halo and comparing the menu's and game play.

I think the off looks a tad better, its not as dark, the Denon seemed a little bit dark, but still good, but I'm not expert.

Would you think the TV or Denon would do the job better?

Your results are what I expected -- generally, it's very hard to tell a difference one way or the other. Generally, the TV is a little better, but it's totally a case-by-case thing. Go with your gut then sit back and enjoy

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post #1505 of 3197 Old 02-05-2009, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

they should be OK for now, but there is no point in getting a fancy receiver if you don't get some nice new speakers to match up!! The only thing to worry about is if your old "theater in a box" speakers have some proprietary connection that won't work with regular speaker posts. You may have to do a little work (cutting and stripping wire) to make the connection to the receiver.

There are many solid "budget" speaker options out there, head over to the speaker forum and browse through the last few pages of threads, you will find many "please recommend me speakers for $$$$?" threads that will teach you a lot.



thanks for the replies guys....

these are the specs for the speakers..

Front speakers:
1" tweeter and 3-1/8" midrange driver
video-shielded
5-1/8"W x 8-11/16"H x 5-3/8"D
warranty: 2 years


Center speaker:
dual 2-1/4" drivers
video-shielded
9-11/16"W x 4-5/16"H x 3-3/8"D
warranty: 2 years


Rear speakers:
3-1/8" driver
4-9/16"W x 6-5/8"H x 5-3/8"D
warranty: 2 years


Subwoofer:
9-13/16" driver
bass-reflex enclosure
built-in 160-watt amplifier
video-shielded
13-1/4"W x 16-1/8"H x 14-1/4"D
warranty: 2 years
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post #1506 of 3197 Old 02-05-2009, 01:10 PM
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looks fine... those speakers are TINY however so you definitely need the subwoofer to handle all the bass.

The biggest problem with trying to use old HTIB speakers with a normal receiver is the subwoofer connection, as most HTIB subs do not have an RCA subwoofer input. Without being able to make an RCA connection to the sub from the SUB OUT on the back of the receiver, it will not be able to properly control the "bass management" for your speakers.

What kind of connector does your sub have on the back?

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post #1507 of 3197 Old 02-05-2009, 01:48 PM
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I believe RCA ...am i screwed?
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post #1508 of 3197 Old 02-05-2009, 01:57 PM
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no, an RCA connection is what you want actually.

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post #1509 of 3197 Old 02-05-2009, 02:05 PM
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well it's one jack type plug...like the typical "all in one box" it's a sony SET..

SA-WMSP69 Powered Subwoofer
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post #1510 of 3197 Old 02-05-2009, 07:38 PM
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any clue how i can work around this batpig?
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post #1511 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 12:13 AM
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well if it's an actual RCA subwoofer jack you are fine. why don't you take a photo of the back of the sub with a close-up of the connectors so we can see what's going on, it's difficult to tell from your descriptions.

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post #1512 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMc73 View Post

I just opened my 2309, and hooked up my stuff and had a few questions about the component to HDMI stuff...

I hooked up my Xbox 360 via the component in (DVD-1) and optical in (TV/Cable - 1), then using the V-AUX (which I renamed XBOX 360), I edited its assignments to use these audio and video ins.

At first there was no video, when I googled and found some posts on here about the Xbox needing to be set to lower than 1080i, I changed the Xbox setting to 720p. Then walla! I had video and sound. And it looks pretty good.

My question is, what scale is the video at when I see it? Its obviously 720p coming from the Xbox to the 2309 (component ---> HDMI), but then from the 2309 to my Samsung TV (1080p), does my TV automatically upconvert that that 720p signal to 1080p?

This won't be an issue when I get a new Xbox with HDMI, but for now just trying to maximize my picture quality.

I could set the Xbox back up to 1080p and use the components plugged directly into the back of the TV, to ensure I have 1080p signal being displayed. But wondered what the 2309 component switching was displaying?

I've been racking my brain for several hours trying to decide on a receiver. Like you, I have an XBOX 360 without HDMI support. XBOX Live had an update a long time ago for 1080p, whether you were using component, or VGA. If a 1080p signal is being sent from the XBOX, why won't it pass through the receiver?

Also, if you lower the resolution to 720p, the receiver may upscale it to look better, but it's not the same as true 1080p. What happens when you set the XBOX menu to 1080i?

If you have a link to the information Googled, I'd appreciate it. Is this specifically related to the Denon receivers?
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post #1513 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 01:00 AM
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you can do 1080p just fine all day long, it will pass through the receiver no problem -- you just can't convert it to HDMI output. almost no receiver but the highest-end with top end video processing will convert 1080p component to 1080p HDMI, it's not a denon thing at all.

it's only an issue if you are obsessed with the "one HDMI cable to the TV" solution. if you can find it in your heart to run a second, component video cable, 1080p is no problem. although I highly doubt you could ever tell the difference between Xbox 360 output at 1080i vs. 1080p.

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post #1514 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPowers View Post

Also, if you lower the resolution to 720p, the receiver may upscale it to look better, but it's not the same as true 1080p.

Although unless you are playing a "native" 1080p game, the xbox is simply upscaling to 1080p as well just as the Denon would.

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post #1515 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

although I highly doubt you could ever tell the difference between Xbox 360 output at 1080i vs. 1080p.

+1
Not too mention that telling the difference of even 1080p and 720p beyond 8'-9' on a 50" set (even less on a smaller set) is doubtful as well as shown here.

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post #1516 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 09:18 AM
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Finally got my speakers(def tech 800s, 1000c, 1000sub) and receiver(2309) in yesterday. I am moving in 2 weeks and wasn't going to open everything up but I was craving some good sound, so I have a huge mess now. Here is my questions:

I wired up(hdmi and all) a 3.1 setup so I could just test out the speakers and tossed in Iron Man. I didn't change anything from the receiver out of the box and was hoping to get a non configured truehd sound. So I changed the settings in the bluray(Samsung 2550) to truehd and prayed. Of course, no luck and the receiver showed multi in. Not only did it not show truehd, the explosions and everything sounded muffled. I know that I just have something wrong because the store I heard my speakers from played Iron Man with my receiver and I crapped my pants in joy.

Is this because I only have a 3.1 setup or because I didn't run through audy setup or because I have no idea what I am doing and probably need to spend an hr or two getting everything configured?

My goal is just to hear and see the movie playing in truehd with a 3.1(ya, don't want to waste wires for 5.1 yet) setup asap since I will have to change all the setting when I get in my new house. Thanks in advance.
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post #1517 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 09:48 AM
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Thanks for the help fellas. Would have been nice if the manual had gone into that detail instead of just "power," but it sounds like Denon is known for that. Of course it wouldn't have fixed my (self inflicted) problem, but that's beside the point. Guess now I'll figure out how to program the quick select buttons to include Dynamic Volume.
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post #1518 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

well if it's an actual RCA subwoofer jack you are fine. why don't you take a photo of the back of the sub with a close-up of the connectors so we can see what's going on, it's difficult to tell from your descriptions.

It is a Monaural Cord....



is this bad? and if so...is there a work around? I really really appreciate your help!
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post #1519 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexsta View Post

It is a Monaural Cord....



is this bad? and if so...is there a work around? I really really appreciate your help!

Looks fine. The only issue might be that the subwoofer is applying it's own filtering which you can't control. You will have to do some trial and error to see if you need to bypass (or set very high) the crossover for LFE in the receiver. Unless you match the crossovers to the filter in the sub you might have problems with the satellites and the sub trying to reproduce the same frequencies at the same time.
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post #1520 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dexsta View Post

It is a Monaural Cord....

is this bad? and if so...is there a work around? I really really appreciate your help!

actually from that picture it looks like you are good to go! Just use the same mono RCA plug to go from the SUB OUT on the Denon to your sub. In fact it looks like all of your connections are totally standard, so you will have no problems using your current speakers with the new Denon. Crisis averted!

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post #1521 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 01:04 PM
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Well, I've been playing with my new 2309 and have an odd issue I hope you can help me resolve. It has to do with digital music playing via the XBOX 360.

I have my XBOX setup with the 2309 via component and optical audio cables.
I used the V.AUX input and renamed it XBOX 360 and assigned it the two inputs where the component and optical cables are plugged in. Works great. Halo 3 sounds awesome! But here is the issue...

The XBOX dashboard has a "Music Player" that can play all the digital music from my PC, it can also play that same music via Media Center, but the problem I'm finding is the dashboard music player SOUNDS so much better. Why? Well the audio mode it uses when in the XBOX dashboard is this:



It stays in this mode when I go into Media Center, all the way up until I push play on an album or track in Media Center then it switches automatically to this:



Then when I go back to the dashboard, exit out of Media Center, it switches back to this again:



I play with all the sound modes via the remote control when in the Media Center, while playing music and I can't get that DOLBY DIGITAL one to come up, where it sounds so much better.

What am I doing wrong? I want that sound mode in the Media Center, when I'm playing music in there, but I can't get it?
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post #1522 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 01:09 PM
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well music is only a 2-channel source, so if your receiver is seeing 5.1 channels when playing music that means your 360 is doing something to it first. when you stream from the computer via media center you are just seeing the 2-channel source natively, so the 360 has to be tampering with it somehow when you play it the other way. Does sound come out of the center channel when it says "Dolby Digital" or are you getting a "blank" channel?

this picture is what you should see with 2-channel music.


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post #1523 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 02:41 PM
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Well batpig, you won't believe this one, I just went in the other room to test that, turned on the XBOX, and the Red Ring Of Death! My XBOX is toast. We'll have to revisit this after I replace mine box. Won't be too soon, I can't live without an XBOX!
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post #1524 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 02:51 PM
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sucks!!! sorry dude, the dreaded RROD strikes again! time in to phone in for your "coffin".

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post #1525 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

you can do 1080p just fine all day long, it will pass through the receiver no problem -- you just can't convert it to HDMI output. almost no receiver but the highest-end with top end video processing will convert 1080p component to 1080p HDMI, it's not a denon thing at all.

it's only an issue if you are obsessed with the "one HDMI cable to the TV" solution. if you can find it in your heart to run a second, component video cable, 1080p is no problem. although I highly doubt you could ever tell the difference between Xbox 360 output at 1080i vs. 1080p.

That's a strange quirk. You learn something new every day. Thanks for the info!

I'm just trying not to get stuck with something instantly obsolete. I bought a $1300 Yamaha RX-V2600 a couple of years ago, only to find out that it won't even pass a 1080p signal. I'm going to sell the thing, and I haven't even taken it out of the box.

I don't wall mount my TVs, so I don't mind component from the XBOX to the receiver, and running more component wires to the TV, in addition to HDMI. As long as the games that are capable of playing in 1080p stay at the native resolution in progressive scan.

One more question...Once all these things are hooked up to the receiver, and it's late at night and I don't want to disturb my neighbors, if I want to use the TV speakers instead, is it possible to use the digital optical out for this purpose?
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post #1526 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMc73 View Post

Well batpig, you won't believe this one, I just went in the other room to test that, turned on the XBOX, and the Red Ring Of Death! My XBOX is toast. We'll have to revisit this after I replace mine box. Won't be too soon, I can't live without an XBOX!

If you're out of warranty, you should just get a Jasper Arcade version, and move the hard drive to the new XBOX. One store was selling them for $150!
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post #1527 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 03:15 PM
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If your TV isn't wall mounted and you don't mind extra cables, just run the Xbox video straight to the TV with component for 1080p, no need to run through the receiver at all.

For late night viewing, you should use the HDMI Control feature to pass through HDMI sources to the TV. For non-HDMI sources you will have to use one of the audio outs or just bypass the receiver completely. Note that it will not transcode audio for the audio outputs, so HDMI audio input will not go out the Optical OUT.

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post #1528 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 03:36 PM
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Not to get off the 2309 subject here, but the XBOX has a 3 year warranty for the 3 red rings, which is what I have. So I printed me a label and will ship it so its fixed, in the mean time I just told my wife had to get a new one, so I'll have an HDMI version this weekend.

Then I can come back to batpig and have him help me with this odd audio issue I posted above. The music is 1000% better in that Dolby Digital mode than the other mode...with 2-channel, and I don't think it was coming out of the center, it just sounded a LOT louder and better.
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post #1529 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 03:52 PM
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Here's my theory, which is why I asked if you were hearing anything front the center when it said "Dolby Digital":

When you are playing from the Xbox, it is outputting at DD 5.1 and just sending blank channels for everything but the fronts. So you are hearing the music in stereo, as the receiver is "tricked" into thinking it's getting multichannel. So even though it says Dolby Digital and 5.1 boxes are lit up on the left, the receiver is only playing the music in stereo (nothing comes out of the center) because of the blank channels.

When you stream, it outputs the raw 2-channel PCM, and the receiver locks into Pro Logic mode and you are getting a matrixed version of the music, with part of it diverted to the center channel.

I believe that either:
1. your center channel is inferior to your fronts and so the music sounds worse when matrixed with pro logic, or
2. there is a simple volume mismatch between the two outputs

Or, some combination of both. I bet if you put it into "Stereo" mode instead of DPLII Music when you are getting the 2-channel from streaming, they would sound much more similar. And if you matched the volumes, they would probably be identical.

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post #1530 of 3197 Old 02-06-2009, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Here's my theory, which is why I asked if you were hearing anything front the center when it said "Dolby Digital":

When you are playing from the Xbox, it is outputting at DD 5.1 and just sending blank channels for everything but the fronts. So you are hearing the music in stereo, as the receiver is "tricked" into thinking it's getting multichannel. So even though it says Dolby Digital and 5.1 boxes are lit up on the left, the receiver is only playing the music in stereo (nothing comes out of the center) because of the blank channels.

When you stream, it outputs the raw 2-channel PCM, and the receiver locks into Pro Logic mode and you are getting a matrixed version of the music, with part of it diverted to the center channel.

I believe that either:
1. your center channel is inferior to your fronts and so the music sounds worse when matrixed with pro logic, or
2. there is a simple volume mismatch between the two outputs

Or, some combination of both. I bet if you put it into "Stereo" mode instead of DPLII Music when you are getting the 2-channel from streaming, they would sound much more similar. And if you matched the volumes, they would probably be identical.

I did put it in Stereo and it sounded better, but not the same, maybe the volume settings are off between the two, where can I edit that?
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