*Official* Denon AVR 2309CI/889 Thread - Page 64 - AVS Forum
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post #1891 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by generallee View Post

Be sure you have a cheap tripod to put the Mike on. The mike needs to be steady and at ear listening level when you start. With the AVR 2309CI you will make 6 placements of the mike during set up. I suggest that you read the setup guide that is posted in the Audyssey thread for placement suggestions before you begin. Automatic setup is easy. Make sure your TV is on and turned to your AVR input so that the OSD will be easy to see.
Once you start the setup the OSD will direct you what to do (when to move the mike to position 2....3....etc. The test tones emitted will not take long and the whole setup including calibration will take about 8 minutes.
When I set my system up I found that the subwoofer was measured at +7db whereas the other speakers were measured at -3db so I turned down the volume knob on the sub and ran Audyssey again.
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Ah ok from some other posts in this thread it looked like people were having issues but 8 minutes that seems easy enough. I suppose once I read through the pages in the word doc and look at the other article that probably translate to some quick steps once you know what your doing.
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post #1892 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Draven8795 View Post

Ah ok from some other posts in this thread it looked like people were having issues but 8 minutes that seems easy enough. I suppose once I read through the pages in the word doc and look at the other article that probably translate to some quick steps once you know what your doing.

Go through batpig's guide to set up your inputs, if you have not done so already. That can be very time consuming depending on your setup preferences and components. It does not require test tones, etc, and can be done anytime (even after Autosetup). Skip the Manual speaker setup portion.

When you do Autosetup, I would set aside at least 30 min., especially first time through. Download and print the document version of the Audyssey Guide. It is pretty thorough, but is not specific to your AVR, so you will need your Denon Manual open to "Autosetup". Let us know how it comes out.

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post #1893 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Go through batpig's guide to set up your inputs, if you have not done so already. That can be very time consuming depending on your setup preferences and components. It does not require test tones, etc, and can be done anytime (even after Autosetup). Skip the Manual speaker setup portion.

When you do Autosetup, I would set aside at least 30 min., especially first time through. Download and print the document version of the Audyssey Guide. It is pretty thorough, but is not specific to your AVR, so you will need your Denon Manual open to "Autosetup". Let us know how it comes out.

one other note is when following the setup you will see in addition to the scroll up, and scroll down button you will see the scroll LEFT button.
This is kind of wierd but necessary so look at your funky remote under the trap door and study the buttons. the leftbutton is directly under the menu button that you will use to bring up the OSD menu
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post #1894 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 10:49 AM
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Thanks General -- looks like you have now transitioned from asking questions to answering! Good summary of the Harmony stuff also, I'm sure that some "lurkers" reading along will get some good use out of that.

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post #1895 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilNui View Post

My AVR 2309 is connected to my PC via S/PDIF, Audyssey was run and I am happy with stereo sound. But anything digitally encoded sounds horrible as some of the lower frequencies get boosted when decoded by the receiver and not just the LFE channel as it applies to DD 2.0 as well. The difference is a vast one, btw.

there shouldn't be that much of a difference -- it sounds to me like the LFE track is getting improperly boosted by +10dB twice, but it's weird that it's happening with DD 2.0 as well. Unfortunately I am totally unfamiliar with HTPC sound stuff, so I can't be too much help but I'll try!

Do you have any other SPDIF sources that you could check to verify that the problem is definitely with the computer? i.e. does it sound normal playing a DD 5.1 track off a DVD player?

Also, is Dynamic EQ on? Try turning it off just to take that out of the equation.

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post #1896 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

but I'll try!

Thank you
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

there shouldn't be that much of a difference -- it sounds to me like the LFE track is getting improperly boosted by +10dB twice, but it's weird that it's happening with DD 2.0 as well.

At first I also thought it was some weird boosting of the LFE or SW output, but neither makes sense. LFE does not exist with DD 2.0 as you already said and SW output is not only far louder but also sounds different and not the whole SW range gets boosted! With some movies i wont even notice it.
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i.e. does it sound normal playing a DD 5.1 track off a DVD player?

sadly it sounds the same with on of our DVD players . I also thought my pc was doing something wrong, but I tested it on another pc and with a total of 3 soundcards.

So then i thought about, wether the digital signal actually got through to the output ontouched so I now use WASAPI - which is supposed to provide bitperfect output. I tested that with a setting of my software decoder called "Output SPDIF as PCM". Without WASAPI the receiver would receive a touched signal (probably windows resampling), so the encoding was broken and resulted in terrible noise. With WASAPI the signal is seemingly untouched as the receiver recognizes it as a DD stream (or whatever it was before)

So I think its not that likely that my pc is at fault.
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Also, is Dynamic EQ on?

its off
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post #1897 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 11:30 AM
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If it also happens with your regular DVD player then I doubt the PC is at fault. Typically this would be a result of Dynamic EQ but if that's off then it sure sounds goofy

What did Audyssey set your SW level at? And what is your SW?

Have you tried doing a microprocessor reset on the Denon?

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post #1898 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

What did Audyssey set your SW level at? And what is your SW?

-0.5dB and its a Teufel M5500
But even if my subwoofer is weirdly configured or the worst sub in the world, it would still make no sense, that encoded stuff sounds totally different

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Have you tried doing a microprocessor reset on the Denon?

I didnt try that. Didnt even think of that. Will that delete my Audyssey setup? just read that it will. I will try it though
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post #1899 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 11:58 AM
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yes, the reset will clear everything and restore the receiver back to default settings, but it sometimes fixes "goofy" problems.

I am having difficulty understanding when the problem occurs. Let's assume that everything is configured correctly, including the subwoofer volume (on a side note, when you check the speaker levels using the internal test tones, does the subwoofer level sound normal?)

Have you done enough testing to where you can isolate specifically when it occurs? When does it sound normal, and when do you get the weird overboosting of the bass?

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post #1900 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 12:11 PM
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I cant start the test noise at the moment, as i would wake someone up, so Ill do that later.

Just let the DVD player decode the DD 2.0 menu and send it out via PCM and tada the bass is far lower compared to bitstream output.
So I think I have isolated it to the point that I can say, that every encoded signal will get its bass boosted, while every pcm signal is fine!
A HDMI connection for 5.1 PCM might solve my problems, but that would be a tad too expensive. Will reset now
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post #1901 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Thanks General -- looks like you have now transitioned from asking questions to answering! Good summary of the Harmony stuff also, I'm sure that some "lurkers" reading along will get some good use out of that.

Well not quite I was trying to find out about the Ipod Dock.
JD indicated the fix was only needed for newer Ipods. When I looked at the Ipod compatability chart it appears that the only docks that are workable are the ASN3N and the ASN3W. These docks are only usable in all modes with certain ipod iphone devices (not all files may be output to browser mode). What is disturbing is that their NEW ASD-11R will not connect Video to anything due to Apple changes.The Denon note says that Firmware changes will be available after Oct 08 for AVR 230CI9 or higher. The ASD 1R is Audio only It seems like some of these Docks are already boat anchors. Since the compatability chart still says the 11R needs fixing, why is it not being fixed before shipment. Or better yet fixed and assigned a new product number This is quite confusing. Your comments?
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post #1902 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 01:23 PM
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Just listened to the test noise and going by hear i'd say its ... ok? Doesnt seem wrong, nor too loud

Resetting the system has done nothing.
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post #1903 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by EvilNui View Post

Just listened to the test noise and going by hear i'd say its ... ok? Doesnt seem wrong, nor too loud

Resetting the system has done nothing.

Go into the information section and post the results for everyone to see if you have something funky
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post #1904 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 02:30 PM
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Do you mean Information > Status ?
Code:
Select Source : TV/CBL
Input Mode : Auto
Decode Mode : Auto

Assign
 HDMI : None
 Digital : OPT1
 Component : 3-RCA
 iPod Dock : None

Rec Select : Source
Video Select : Source
Source Level 
 Analog : 0dB
 Digital : 0dB

Convert : ON
i/p Scaler : A to H
 Resolution : Auto

 Progressive : Auto
 Mode

 Aspect : Full

MultEQ : Audyssey
 Dynamic EQ : OFF
 Dynamic Vol : OFF
 Night Mode : OFF
 RESTORER : OFF

ZONE2
 Power : OFF
 Select Source : Source
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post #1905 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 05:26 PM
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Take a look at your source......It is TV/CBL Don't you want to check something else? like your DVD maybe?
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post #1906 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 05:35 PM
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My PC is hooked up to TV/CBL, so no
Thanks for your help btw
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post #1907 of 3197 Old 03-16-2009, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generallee View Post

The test tones emitted will not take long and the whole setup including calibration will take about 8 minutes.
When I set my system up I found that the subwoofer was measured at +7db whereas the other speakers were measured at -3db so I turned down the volume knob on the sub and ran Audyssey again.
And yes......send your wife shopping. The first time my wife came in yatta yatta yatta

The setup on average lasts about 2 minutes per position with a 5.1 setup which is probably the average setup, so if you're doing all 6 positions, a better number is 15 minutes on average including the calibration, longer if it's a 7.1 setup.

If your sub was set at +7db, then you should have INCREASED the volume not decreased it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by generallee View Post

What is disturbing is that their NEW ASD-11R will not connect Video to anything due to Apple changes.The Denon note says that Firmware changes will be available after Oct 08 for AVR 230CI9 or higher. The ASD 1R is Audio only It seems like some of these Docks are already boat anchors. Since the compatability chart still says the 11R needs fixing, why is it not being fixed before shipment. Or better yet fixed and assigned a new product number This is quite confusing. Your comments?

Not really sure what your issue is here ..... the fix is available and will correct this problem as listed in the link in my sig.

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post #1908 of 3197 Old 03-17-2009, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The setup on average lasts about 2 minutes per position with a 5.1 setup which is probably the average setup, so if you're doing all 6 positions, a better number is 15 minutes on average including the calibration, longer if it's a 7.1 setup.

If your sub was set at +7db, then you should have INCREASED the volume not decreased it.



Not really sure what your issue is here ..... the fix is available and will correct this problem as listed in the link in my sig.

Thanks JD...about Audyssey. I am moving the woofer so will be running Audyssey again. Should all speakers be as close to 0db as possible?

About the Ipod......since the 11R is much cheaper than the other docks it might be preferable to purchase for some. What seems strange to me is if Denon has provided you a fix, why then does the chart still say that it will not work with video? Has Denon not "fixed" all newly shipped 11R's or is it because there are a number of 11R's circulating that still need fixing. (So I guess the confusion is that one needs to come to you only if their new 11R doesn't work)(after reading under your sig, it appears that the fix is to the receiver rather than to the dock it's self......Is that so? In that case it would be a non issue provided that one has purchased a Dock AND a AVR that have been factory upgraded).....Correct

The other listed docks are much more expensive with the wireless being the most expensive. Are there any added benifits to the ASD3's?
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post #1909 of 3197 Old 03-17-2009, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by generallee View Post

Should all speakers be as close to 0db as possible?

Only if you like to spend time doing that sort of thing (taking time away from your animals isn't a good thing though from what I understand). However, any setting other than +/-12db is good and no further tweaking is required.


Quote:
Originally Posted by generallee View Post

About the Ipod......since the 11R is much cheaper than the other docks it might be preferable to purchase for some. What seems strange to me is if Denon has provided you a fix, why then does the chart still say that it will not work with video? Has Denon not "fixed" all newly shipped 11R's or is it because there are a number of 11R's circulating that still need fixing. (So I guess the confusion is that one needs to come to you only if their new 11R doesn't work)

I don't own an iPod nor do I own an iPod dock (Denon or 3rd party), so I cannot answer the benefits of one dock over another. The issue with the docks is how they interact with the Denon and Apple iPod software, so whether the docks themselves will be updated, I have no clue. I simply asked Denon whether I could help distribute the fix as they have asked me to distribute the 2808 fixes. As far as the chart is concerned, it indicates the video will not work, however there is a fix available so clearly there's nothing inaccurate about the chart.

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post #1910 of 3197 Old 03-17-2009, 07:49 AM
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I searched but didn't come up with anything.

I hooked the Panny Blue Ray to the #2309 via HDMI to the 1st hdmi slot on the unit - marked "DVD." I then connected the #2309 from the HDMI Monitor out slot to the HDMI #1 slot on the Panny TV but didn't get any audio or video out from the DVD. I did get audio and video when I connected the dvd directly to the HDMI #2 slot on the TV but I had to use component cables to get audio. I connected the #2309 from the monitor HDMI slot to the HDMI #1on the TV. This is probably stupid simple but I can't figure it out so a bit of help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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post #1911 of 3197 Old 03-17-2009, 07:55 AM
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On the Panny TV MENU you have to manually select what input jack you are using, HDMI #1, HDMI #2, Component #1, Component #2, etc. . Are you aware of this?

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post #1912 of 3197 Old 03-17-2009, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

On the Panny TV MENU you have to manually select what input jack you are using, HDMI #1, HDMI #2, Component #1, Component #2, etc. . Are you aware of this?

Yes sir. I tried them all and none worked except for the time I connected it direct (DVD to Panny #2) and selected HDMI #2 on the Panny. Aren't I supposed to connect the DVD to the #2309 HDMI DVD slot and just run the one HDMI cable to the TV from the HDMI monitor slot on the #2309?
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post #1913 of 3197 Old 03-17-2009, 10:30 AM
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does the 2309 output any video to the TV? For example, when you hook up the HDMI monitor OUT to the TV's HDMI input, can you see the on-screen menus?

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post #1914 of 3197 Old 03-17-2009, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

does the 2309 output any video to the TV? For example, when you hook up the HDMI monitor OUT to the TV's HDMI input, can you see the on-screen menus?


Yes, but I think (sorry, was trying different connections and memory excapes me) I still needed the component cables from the TV to the 2309 for audio. I had the HDMI from the 2309 monitor out to the Panny HDTV 1 and selected (of course) HDTV 1 on the TV. I've printed out (I think yours) one of your documents. What I think I have to look at is in the Assign menu of the 2309 and follow your instructions. It says HDMI 1 is assigned to TV and #2 assigned to DVD. I did auto setup and with the exception of changing audio TV to AMP, left everything else as is. Thanks
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post #1915 of 3197 Old 03-17-2009, 10:47 AM
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When you say "Yes" is that saying, yes, you can see the on-screen menus when you connect HDMI from 2309 to TV? So the video IS working....

there are some terminology issues here -- component cables are for video and not audio. "Component" = the three (red/blue/green) video cables for video; "Composite" = the red/white/yellow standard RCA connection, with red/white giving stereo analog audio and yellow carrying video.

I have no idea what you mean when you say "I still needed the component cables from the TV to the 2309 for audio". are you trying to listen to your TV speakers or real speakers connected to the receiver? I don't understand how the connection from TV to receiver would affect the audio, unless you are using the internal tuner of the TV.

The HDMI inputs can be assigned to whatever "name" you want, so make sure the HDMI input you have plugged into is actually assigned to the DVD "name". Remember to IGNORE THE LABELS (lesson #1! ) and just worry that the number you plugged into (HDMI-1) is actually assigned correctly.

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post #1916 of 3197 Old 03-17-2009, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

a. When you say "Yes" is that saying, yes, you can see the on-screen menus when you connect HDMI from 2309 to TV? So the video IS working....

B there are some terminology issues here -- component cables are for video and not audio. "Component" = the three (red/blue/green) video cables for video; "Composite" = the red/white/yellow standard RCA connection, with red/white giving stereo analog audio and yellow carrying video.

C.I have no idea what you mean when you say "I still needed the component cables from the TV to the 2309 for audio". are you trying to listen to your TV speakers or real speakers connected to the receiver? I don't understand how the connection from TV to receiver would affect the audio, unless you are using the internal tuner of the TV.

D. The HDMI inputs can be assigned to whatever "name" you want, so make sure the HDMI input you have plugged into is actually assigned to the DVD "name". Remember to IGNORE THE LABELS (lesson #1! ) and just worry that the number you plugged into (HDMI-1) is actually assigned correctly.

A. Yes, BR video is working when I go direct from the 2309 monitor out to the Panny HDMI 1 and use another HDMI cable going from the Blue Ray to the Panny HDMI 2. I have no video when I HDMI from the Blue Ray to the HDMI DVD slot in the 2309 and with another HDMI cable from the 2309 monitor out to Panny HDMI 1. I still need "Composite" cables for audio.

b. Ah, understood. I'm talking about the Composite red/white RCA cables

c. I have the TV speaker turned off. With the HDMI connected from 2309 monitor out to the Panny HDTV 1, I don't (again, trying to remember) think I had (forgetting the DVD at this point) audio unless I used composite cables.

d. That's what I have to verify tonite.

Thanks v. much for your help. Tonite will try to convince my wife I know what I'm doing.
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post #1917 of 3197 Old 03-17-2009, 11:27 AM
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OK, I'm still confused. where are the composite cables going? From Blu Ray player to AVR or from the receiver to the TV?

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Yes, BR video is working when I go direct from the 2309 monitor out to the Panny HDMI 1 and use another HDMI cable going from the Blue Ray to the Panny HDMI 2.

And this is confusing too -- you have two different HDMI cables going to your TV? One from the receiver and one from the BDP? Your TV can only tune to one HDMI input at a time

OK, so let's try some yes/no questions and see if we can get clear on where you are at:

1. a) HDMI connection from BDP direct to TV (no receiver involved) works fine (yes/no)? b) And if you turn on the TV speakers you will hear audio from the TV in this configuration (yes/no)?

2. When you connect HDMI from the 2309 monitor out to the TV's HDMI input, you can see the On Screen Display (OSD) menus (yes/no)?

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post #1918 of 3197 Old 03-17-2009, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

OK, I'm still confused. where are the composite cables going? From Blu Ray player to AVR or from the receiver to the TV?



And this is confusing too -- you have two different HDMI cables going to your TV? One from the receiver and one from the BDP? Your TV can only tune to one HDMI input at a time

OK, so let's try some yes/no questions and see if we can get clear on where you are at:

1. a) HDMI connection from BDP direct to TV (no receiver involved) works fine (yes/no)? b) And if you turn on the TV speakers you will hear audio from the TV in this configuration (yes/no)?

2. When you connect HDMI from the 2309 monitor out to the TV's HDMI input, you can see the On Screen Display (OSD) menus (yes/no)?

Ok, I'm back after a short break.
I only had the 2 HDMI cables going into the TV cause that was the only way the BR worked.

1. I never tried that. In my earlier configuration before I got my 2nd hdmi cable and tried to do what I did, I had the hdmi from the 2309 monitor slot going to hdmi 1 on the TV. I needed composite audio cables to get audio??
I also ran cables (non-hdmi) from BRP to the 2309.

2. yes

Don't you think the issue here is me assigning the 2309 hdmi 1 to TV and hdmi 2 to DVD?
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post #1919 of 3197 Old 03-17-2009, 01:19 PM
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there is still some major conceptual roadblock here. you had TWO hdmi cables going to your TV? think about that, how does that make any sense? if the BDP is connected to the TV directly, what function does the 2nd hdmi cable serve if it's connected between receiver and display? your TV can't be tuned to two HDMI inputs at the same time!! I'm not even sure what you were trying to accomplish with that

If you are getting OSD over HDMI to your TV that means the HDMI video output on the receiver is working, and you probably have just mis-assigned your inputs or have a setting from on the player. You should definitely try going BDP > TV with one HDMI cable just to verify that it is correctly outputting video+audio over HDMI. Then worry about getting it to work going through the receiver.

Also, forget about the composite cables for audio, they shouldn't even be involved in this configuration.

Quote:


Don't you think the issue here is me assigning the 2309 hdmi 1 to TV and hdmi 2 to DVD?

Yes, almost certainly. You said above you plugged the BDP into the 2309 HDMI-1 input, so why did you assign it to "TV"? If you want the BDP to play when you select the "DVD" source name, the HDMI input has to be ASSIGNED to the "DVD" name! Why would you assign it to TV/CBL?

It should go like this:
BDP >> (hdmi cable) >> Denon AVR >> (hdmi cable from MONITOR OUT) >> TV

Then just make sure that whatever HDMI input you plugged into is ASSIGNED TO "DVD". That is all you need to do. It doesn't matter if you use HDMI-1 or 2 or 3 or 4 on the Denon, as long as it is correctly ASSIGNED to the proper "name".

Again, I think there is a fundamental conceptual roadblock here and once it "clicks" for you it will all make sense

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post #1920 of 3197 Old 03-17-2009, 03:21 PM
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Ok, I've got a 2309CI on it's way from 6thAve (great deal w/ coupon code!!). I've got one quick pre-arrival question. I've got a mac mini that I'm planning on hooking up. The audio out will be via optical and the video VGA straight to the TV. What is the best "Denon" way to handle this? I've got a Harmony 880 that will select the correct input on the TV. I'm wondering what input to select on the Denon. If I'm using all of the HMDI inputs can the optical input be assigned to an unused video input? I know I'm making this a lot more complicated that it probably is, just getting panicky!

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