*Official* Denon AVR 2309CI/889 Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 3197 Old 09-03-2008, 05:36 PM
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Theoretically, the LFE or LFE+Main setting is irrelevant if your speakers are set to "small". It's only about whether you want to "double up" the bass on your speakers set to "large".

All of your Audyssey questions are covered in the Audyssey FAQ, the discussions of why Audyssey picks the crossovers it does and whether you can change them manually is one of the most common topics on the thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

You don't have to read all 1000 pages, but I highly recommend you sit down and read the first 20 pages or so to get a foundation, and then read the last 10-15 pages of the thread to get abreast of current developments/questions.

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post #182 of 3197 Old 09-04-2008, 01:19 PM
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Are either the 2309 and/or 2809 firmware upgradable? And by that I mean user upgradeable, not by sending it in. I know some of the higher end xx08 models can over ethernet and the HK x54s can be upgraded over RS-232, I was wondering if the 23 and 28 could also be upgraded.

Thank you
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post #183 of 3197 Old 09-04-2008, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfa7h3r View Post

Are either the 2309 and/or 2809 firmware upgradable? And by that I mean user upgradeable, not by sending it in. I know some of the higher end xx08 models can over ethernet and the HK x54s can be upgraded over RS-232, I was wondering if the 23 and 28 could also be upgraded.

Thank you

You can use a laptop connected to the RS-232 port to update firmware on the 2309CI or 2809CI.

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post #184 of 3197 Old 09-04-2008, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

You can use a laptop connected to the RS-232 port to update firmware on the 2308CI or 2809CI.

Thank you so much. I assume by 2308 you either had a typo or that means it's also available for the 2309. Is there a USB to RS-232 cable that can be used for this? Or does your laptop/pc have to have a serial port?

Thanks again
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post #185 of 3197 Old 09-06-2008, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfa7h3r View Post

Thank you so much. I assume by 2308 you either had a typo or that means it's also available for the 2309. Is there a USB to RS-232 cable that can be used for this? Or does your laptop/pc have to have a serial port?

Thanks again

You can buy USB-serial adapters/cables from as little as $10...
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post #186 of 3197 Old 09-06-2008, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfa7h3r View Post

Thank you so much. I assume by 2308 you either had a typo or that means it's also available for the 2309. Is there a USB to RS-232 cable that can be used for this? Or does your laptop/pc have to have a serial port?

Thanks again

Typo meant 2309.

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post #187 of 3197 Old 09-07-2008, 06:10 AM
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Hello .... I'm new here ... I was wondering if someone could help me out ... I never had funds nor space to have anything like this ... Right now I am finally fixing up an apartment and will have a 12'x12' room (11' ceiling) all set to be my living room ... I was thinking about getting the following equipment ... do you have any opinions as to this being over kill for my space? I am partial to Klipsch from a very old pair of speakers I have ... which I will be using in my new kitchen in a dual zone. I guess this question is mostly geared to the Denon pick in my list ... I was also thinking about the new HK 354 but it looks like it has a few bugs and the build quality has gone down from what I have been reading on this and other forums.

Sony KDL-46XBR8 or Samsung LN46A950
Denon 2809CI
Harman Kardon HKTS18 or Klipsch Cinema 8 or Klipsch RVX-42

I am doing most of the work myself & the apartment probably won't be completed until next summer I really hope sooner ... but when you have a full time job it's rough especially if you want everything perfect.
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post #188 of 3197 Old 09-07-2008, 01:47 PM
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Recenty purchased Denon AVR-2309CI along with Sharp Aquos LCD HDTV 46SE94U. Wondering if my Panasonic DVD-F87 5 disc player and/or my Panasonic DMR-ES20 DVD recorder(during playback) will upconvert & upscale through Denon 2309CI? The reason for the question is that I also bought the Philips DVD 1080p HDMI Upconversion DVP3982 player. Should I return the Philips DVD player since I havn't opened the box yet and the upconverting is possibly already activated through the Denon stereo receiver 2309CI?
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post #189 of 3197 Old 09-07-2008, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

You can use a laptop connected to the RS-232 port to update firmware on the 2309CI or 2809CI.

I was looking through the 2309 manual and I didn't see anything about being able to update firmware over RS-232. There also isn't anything on Denon's website related to new firmware for the 2309, although I'm assuming that's because it is a new unit and there isn't a new firmware out yet. Are you positive it can be updated through RS-232 from a home computer? Sorry about being so nitpicky but this could make or break the deal for me so I want to be sure.

EDIT: I was doing some digging in the 2808 thread to see how last years updates worked and it looks like it can be done but the updates are few and far between and they sound pretty difficult to obtain since they aren't on Denon's website.
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post #190 of 3197 Old 09-07-2008, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfa7h3r View Post

I was looking through the 2309 manual and I didn't see anything about being able to update firmware over RS-232. There also isn't anything on Denon's website related to new firmware for the 2309, although I'm assuming that's because it is a new unit and there isn't a new firmware out yet. Are you positive it can be updated through RS-232 from a home computer? Sorry about being so nitpicky but this could make or break the deal for me so I want to be sure.

Its pretty uncommon to need a firmware update on the 2xxxCI series, but against previous units such as the AVR-5805 & AVR-4806 Denon said: Customers will be able to purchase the upgrade and install it themselves via the built-in RS232 or Ethernet ports on their Denon components. I also see lots of other instances of firmware updates being applied to various Denon equipment by RS-232 ports or Ethernet. If still in doubt contact Denon and ask. The RS-232 port is also used by automated control systems.

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post #191 of 3197 Old 09-07-2008, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Its pretty uncommon to need a firmware update on the 2xxxCI series, but against previous units such as the AVR-5805 & AVR-4806 Denon said: Customers will be able to purchase the upgrade and install it themselves via the built-in RS232 or Ethernet ports on their Denon components. I also see lots of other instances of firmware updates being applied to various Denon equipment by RS-232 ports or Ethernet. If still in doubt contact Denon and ask. The RS-232 port is also used by automated control systems.

Denon's firmware updates and firmware upgrades are two different things. Needing firmware updates over time is quite common for all manufacturer's receivers.

Like 80's rock? Add Pirate Radio KQLZ (updated 8/21/11): http://174.127.65.10:80 to your http://www.radiodenon.com

Firmware update? http://denon-firmware-tracking.wetpaint.com/
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post #192 of 3197 Old 09-08-2008, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captavs View Post

Denon's firmware updates and firmware upgrades are two different things. Needing firmware updates over time is quite common for all manufacturer's receivers.

Perhaps, but depending on the complexity of the model, not needed except to resolve identified faults. If networking was left out of the 3808 do really think that users would be needing all those minor updates? The upgrades are very rare and probably will not occur again to a particular receiver.

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post #193 of 3197 Old 09-08-2008, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Perhaps, but depending on the complexity of the model, not needed except to resolve identified faults. If networking was left out of the 3808 do really think that users would be needing all those minor updates? The upgrades are very rare and probably will not occur again to a particular receiver.


Absolutely firmware updates are needed over time. Just ask the Onkyo guys with non networking receivers

Examples for 2808/3808/4308/5308 firmware updates released to date:

Audyssey fixes/improvements
HDMI fixes/improvements
DSP fixes/improvements

The list goes on...

As far as the frequency of firmware upgrade offerings, time will tell. I know some 2808 owners would like the Dynamic EQ / Dynamic Volume upgrade coming in October for the 3808/4308 and 5308 but Denon currently doesn't offer upgrades for their receivers without networking built in.

Like 80's rock? Add Pirate Radio KQLZ (updated 8/21/11): http://174.127.65.10:80 to your http://www.radiodenon.com

Firmware update? http://denon-firmware-tracking.wetpaint.com/
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post #194 of 3197 Old 09-08-2008, 02:44 AM
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How high do you have to go to get network then with the new models ?
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post #195 of 3197 Old 09-08-2008, 05:20 AM
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The 2809 and below don't have networking. You have to start at the 3808 for that feature. Upgrades to the 2809 would have to go through RS-232.
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post #196 of 3197 Old 09-08-2008, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captavs View Post

.....but Denon currently doesn't offer upgrades for their receivers without networking built in.

How accurate is that? In the 2808 thread DenonJeff said that AVS users could PM him and get an update that is loaded through RS-232. So surely non-networked receivers can be upgraded?
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post #197 of 3197 Old 09-08-2008, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfa7h3r View Post

How accurate is that? In the 2808 thread DenonJeff said that AVS users could PM him and get an update that is loaded through RS-232. So surely non-networked receivers can be upgraded?

Non network receivers can be be updated which are fixes and improvements (though the frequency and availability of updates for non networked Denon receivers has not been so much as built in networked models). Upgrades are added features. 2808 folks have asked Denon if they can get the Dynamic EQ / Dynamic Volume upgrade. Not currently available for the 2808. On the 3808 and up there is a GUI 'upgrade' option which is a different GUI option then firmware 'update' both of which are done via these receivers direct Internet connection.

Like 80's rock? Add Pirate Radio KQLZ (updated 8/21/11): http://174.127.65.10:80 to your http://www.radiodenon.com

Firmware update? http://denon-firmware-tracking.wetpaint.com/
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post #198 of 3197 Old 09-08-2008, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captavs View Post

Non network receivers can be be updated which are fixes and improvements (though the frequency and availability of updates for non networked Denon receivers has not been so much as built in networked models). Upgrades are added features. 2808 folks have asked Denon if they can get the Dynamic EQ / Dynamic Volume upgrade. Not currently available for the 2808. On the 3808 and up there is a GUI 'upgrade' option which is a different GUI option then firmware 'update' both of which are done via these receivers direct Internet connection.

Oh I see what you are saying. I think I was referring to upgrade and update synonymously.
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post #199 of 3197 Old 09-09-2008, 09:31 AM
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I am having a problem with signal lag between my Pace cable box and
my 2309CI. When I turn my system on sound comes from the receiver at once, then after a few seconds the sound goes off. I then get a "Searching for Signal" message, after almost 1 minute the TV picture comes on and everything works OK. All my connections, cable box and TV, are HDMI. Is this lag normal or is their something I should adjust? Thanks!
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post #200 of 3197 Old 09-09-2008, 11:12 AM
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most issues like that are HDMI "handshake" issues with the cable box trying to communicate through the chain, it can usually be resolved by powering up the devices in a certain order. try experimenting with the order in which you power up the various devices.

I would suggest, if you don't already, leaving your cable box on all the time so when the system powers up it's ready to go.

If you continue to experience major issues like this, you should consider switching your cable box to component video connection to the Denon, which will completely resolve the problem. I run my cable box via component for this specific reason, because I can't stand the crap with HDMI. I don't ever want to deal with a call from my wife at work saying, "I'm trying to watch TV and everything is blinking and it says no signal, what the heck is going on and how do I fix it?"

I connect my HD DVD player with HDMI for the lossless sound, but for things like a cable box I don't really understand the rush for everyone to go all-HDMI with everything... the marketing guys have done a good job getting consumers on the bandwagon there....

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post #201 of 3197 Old 09-09-2008, 03:57 PM
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Batpig you seem like a very knowledgeable person especially with regards to Denons. I was hoping you can help me with these questions. It seems rather easy but I don't understand color space so I'm looking for some advice.

1) I'm a 50/50 user. 50% home theather/50% gaming. I know to leave my BD player and sat box at 4:4:4 and set to them limited but since I game and PS3/Xbox 360 use RGB, do I put the 2309 as RGB or 4:4:4? Also do I set it to limited or enhanced?

2) I have the Pio 51FD BD player. The 2309 HDMI info screen in the menu indicates it is 12-bit and when I had the Sony 350 BD player it indicated 8-bit. The 51FD supports deep color and what the info screen is showing is correct but does that mean the receiver is just receiving that info from the BD player or does it mean the BD player is sending 12-bit to the receiver, the receiver is sending it to the tv and the tv is accepting it? My tv doesn't show bit depth only resolution and frequency.

Thanks in advance.
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post #202 of 3197 Old 09-09-2008, 09:09 PM
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adrian - I am no expert and I'm not really familiar with the devices you mention, but I'll do my best:

1) I don't think it matters whether you use rgb extended/full or YcYbR, as long as you are consistent throughout the video chain. If you have a mismatch where the TV is expecting one thing and the device is outputting another, you could get severely crushed/clipped blacks and whites or a grayed out image. I would just stick with standard video levels for everything unless you experience problems.

2) I have no idea, but speculating, the 2309 is probably just giving you the HDMI info it gets when it "pings" the BD player. Like, on my 2307 when I cycle through the info OSD it tells me what resolutions my display can accept.

I don't think there is any deep color out there anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.

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post #203 of 3197 Old 09-09-2008, 10:03 PM
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Hello everyone!

First post here. I have setup a 2309 over the weekend. I am generally pleased but am somewhat disappointed by the number of devices you can actually use and select. Am I correct in stating that you are only allowed 4 A/V devices? DVD, VCR, AUX & HDP. Yes you can select a number of methods to input signals (HDMI, OPT, Comp, COAX) but you really only select 4 A/V devices (not counting the CD input which is only audio) from the remote.

Speaking of which, any way of selecting devices without going through the secret door on the back of the remote? I really wished that the small remote would provide the ability to control Zone 1 as well since it has all the main features that interest me? Anyone opened it to see if we could easily convert it to a zone 1 remote?

Aside from these limitations, so far so good for me...

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post #204 of 3197 Old 09-09-2008, 10:37 PM
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one of the stupidest things Denon did when they switched to the retarded two-sided remote was to NOT put all of the input selector buttons on one side or the other. who's idea was it to put some of the inputs on the front and the others on the back?

anyway, there's no easy way to do it without opening the secret flip door. I highly recommend springing for a Harmony, even one of the older style denon remotes that had all the stuff on the front.

anyway, to your first question, you can hook up more than 4. there are five unique video inputs (HDP, VCR, TV/CBL, DVD, V-AUX) which are all assignable, then two additional audio-only inputs (CD and CDR/TAPE), plus of course the dedicated PHONO input. So that's seven unique inputs, five of them video, plus PHONO and TUNER.

You can also (as you mention) "stack" the inputs, so for example you could rename "VCR" as "VIDEO GAME", and then have the PS3 hooked to HDMI, the 360 hooked up via component, and the Wii hooked up via S-video, and it will "prioritize" and just automatically pick the highest-priority one that is turned on.

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post #205 of 3197 Old 09-10-2008, 09:06 AM
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Batpig, I connected the the cable box to my Denon 2309 with component video. However I am not sure which imput to use. The manual is not very clear. Thanks1
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post #206 of 3197 Old 09-10-2008, 09:32 AM
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Hi everyone,

As the title says, I'm a fairly n00b-ish in the AV arena, and need some help planning the setup of an AVR-2309CI that I will be picking up today. Here's what I will be connecting to it:

Inputs:
HD Cable, via HDMI-2
XBox 360, via HDMI-1
PS3, via HDMI-4
Wii, via Component-1 + DVD analog inputs
DVD player, via DVI -> HDMI-3 + Toslink-2

Output:
To 1080i CRT RPTV, via HDMI -> DVI

Here's the question (if the above looks kosher) is this - I also have a set of Tritton 5.1 headphones that I like to use when the kids are up and about, and I'm either watching a movie or playing a game with language - sound carries in my house. My question is whether there is a way to utilize the receivers digital output (labelled "2 VCR") to swap any of the inputs from the speakers to that output?

One other bit of information - I'm using a Harmony 880, so if its possible to do via the remote, all the better! Fairy tale world for me is to have two items on the remote, e.g. XBox Speaker and XBox Headphone.

Any help is deeply appreciated.

B.
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post #207 of 3197 Old 09-10-2008, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFilmFan View Post

Batpig, I connected the the cable box to my Denon 2309 with component video. However I am not sure which imput to use. The manual is not very clear. Thanks1

It doesn't matter which component input you used, you just have to make sure to go into the INPUT SETUP menu and ASSIGN whatever you hooked up (say "RCA-1") to "TV/CBL". Then, when you switch to the TV/CBL input, it will know to look for the video from "RCA-1".

It should still output fine from the HDMI output to the TV.

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post #208 of 3197 Old 09-10-2008, 10:47 AM
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In comparing different AVR's I noticed that the Denon 2309 Online Specs state .05 THD. The Manual states .08 THD. I called Denon and they said it was .08 THD. Frankly, I think this is rather misleading when comparing specs. I am not sure how much difference it make to me, but it irritates me nevertheless. Any thoughts on this and do you think it makes any real difference. I have one on order and I am a bit concerned what else was mistated in the online specs.
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post #209 of 3197 Old 09-10-2008, 10:51 AM
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it makes no audible difference, don't worry about it. the spec sheets have plenty of typos (for example a lot of new models say they have 4 HDMI outputs and 1 input) but there is nothing they are misleading you about in terms of functionality and features.

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post #210 of 3197 Old 09-10-2008, 10:57 AM
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Thanks Batpig.

To me I notice no difference between RGB and Ycbcr with BD or Sat but you get conflicting posts of what should and shouldn't be used. Reading all BDs are done in Ycbcr that would be most logical but then reading if you have problems with black detail use RGB.

I had a Yamaha 1800 which clipped BTB & WTW and some said it didn't matter and some said it did so I was so confused with the whole thing that I sold it. Only lost about $100 on the sale but I had it for a year so I look at it as a 1 yr rental fee. Then reading more about BTB & WTW really upset me because I felt I made a bad decision selling my 1800. Then I purchased the 1909 and was amazed at the sound quality and thumpness of the LFE using Audyssey. I wanted the 4 HDMI so I ordered the 2309 and returned the 1909. I am very happy with it. Now I don't regret selling the Yammy at all as the 1800 never gave me LFE like the Denons do, it sounded rather flat. The 1800 I sold paid for the 2309. Plus the 2309 passes BTB & WTW.

BTW, I find it quite funny that they have a HDMI input labeled VCR. I understand the DVD/VCR combo but still.
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Denon Avr 2309ci Receiver
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