"Official" Denon AVR 2809CI/989 Thread - Page 103 - AVS Forum
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post #3061 of 5676 Old 05-20-2009, 06:10 AM
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Icky, you may just want to purchase this receiver for its Audyssey implementation rather than the Yamaha's YPAO correction. Read some reviews of that...they're mixed, but it seems to be not as good as Audyssey or Pioneer's EQ.
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post #3062 of 5676 Old 05-20-2009, 12:24 PM
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Hey everyone,

Question/Problem .... I just got my new Oppo bluray and it works great using the digial audio output coaxial cable (connected to the 2809's DVD digital input) but when I use a digital optical cable connected to the (to DVR digital input) no sound .... I make all my HDMI connections directly to TV that way I don't have to turn on my receiver all the time. I want to use the DVD digial port for my kalediscape mini system and the DVR digital port for the bluRay .... am I missing anything? Or is one of the optical ports on either my bluray or 2809 not working? I tried a few different cables ... I have an optical cable running fine from the cablebox to the 2809CI ... When I get home I will play some more ... but it just is bothering me enough to ask this question while at work

Thanks
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post #3063 of 5676 Old 05-20-2009, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Leeds View Post

Hey everyone,

Question/Problem .... I just got my new Oppo bluray and it works great using the digial audio output coaxial cable (connected to the 2809's DVD digital input) but when I use a digital optical cable connected to the (to DVR digital input) no sound .... I make all my HDMI connections directly to TV that way I don't have to turn on my receiver all the time. I want to use the DVD digial port for my kalediscape mini system and the DVR digital port for the bluRay .... am I missing anything? Or is one of the optical ports on either my bluray or 2809 not working? I tried a few different cables ... I have an optical cable running fine from the cablebox to the 2809CI ... When I get home I will play some more ... but it just is bothering me enough to ask this question while at work

Thanks

Jerry, Hi. You'd better send that oppo over to me immediately for testing.

First, aren't you losing out on some nice hiSQ codecs by not running that oppo HDMI thru the Denon? Also, AFAIK the Denon will pass thru the HDMI of the last input selected even when on standby, and with HDMI Control=On (p58 of your manual) it will pass any source HDMI signal thru to the TV without power being on.
Second point is why in heavens name would you not have the Denon on while using the oppo???

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post #3064 of 5676 Old 05-20-2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ickysmits View Post

...Looking at the manual it seems that there’s a decent amount of customization that can be stored in the Quick Select function. So, for example, if I wanted to adjust the tone control and surround speaker levels for Dolby Digital for TV I could make the changes and save them as a Quick Select setting. Then I could just associate the Quick Select button with the Watch TV activity in the Harmony if I wanted it to sound the same way every time. Does that sound right?

Then again, if I used the Audyssey features (I’ve never tried it so I don’t know what to expect) it looks like the Personal Memory Plus function might be enough...

By jove I think you've got it!

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post #3065 of 5676 Old 05-20-2009, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Leeds View Post

I make all my HDMI connections directly to TV that way I don't have to turn on my receiver all the time. I want to use the DVD digial port for my kalediscape mini system and the DVR digital port for the bluRay .... am I missing anything?

As SOM indicated, sounds a bit strange to be sure.

The best that the DVR can do is DD 5.1 so the following is correct:

DVR ---> HDMI ----> TV and DVR --->Optical ----> 2809

However, the HD codecs (BD's) are not able to transfer over optical so you would definitely want to run this configuration:

Blu Ray ----> HDMI ----> 2809

And if you REALLY () wanted to bypass the 2809 for audio (without using HDMI Control in STANDBY) then possibly:

Blu Ray ----> HDMI ----> 2809 AND
Blu Ray ----> Component/Optical ----> TV

or

Blu Ray ----> HDMI 1:2 Splitter ----> TV AND -----> 2809

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post #3066 of 5676 Old 05-20-2009, 03:27 PM
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I have finished created a complete Denon AVR device profile with all sorts of goodie commands that anyone who has a Harmony can utilize to copy discretes to their account.

HARMONY USERNAME: batpigworld

It is based on the "AVR 3808CI" device profile in the Harmony database. This google spreadsheet is your reference "bible" for deciphering what all the commands do:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...FOWw7tojK1P6bw

It you want any of the commands added to your account, just let Harmony tech support know which commands you want copied from the "batpigworld" Harmony account and it should (fingers crossed) work.

Please let me know if you find any errors or have any suggestions, and I will update the google spreadsheet. Soon I hope to add a link on my website with some more details. Enjoy!

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post #3067 of 5676 Old 05-20-2009, 05:34 PM
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bp, you da man!

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post #3068 of 5676 Old 05-21-2009, 10:41 AM
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Jerry,
I also run the cable box directly to the TV and use the optical connection should I want to take advantage of the surround sound for the high def channels. However, everything else goes into the Denon. It can be configured to pass through the cable box video, but I want a separate calibration setting for cable and the Oppo player, so I work it this way. As stated above, you'll want to set the Oppo at the native resolution of your TV, and then play that via the receiver. It's a remarkable sounding machine!
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post #3069 of 5676 Old 05-21-2009, 03:36 PM
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Thanks guys .... see it wasn't a waste for me to ask a fool question ... I will try the pure HDMI route this weekend ... and you know what? You fracken right why the heck would I use the oppo without the 2809CI ....

I will route the Kalediscape and the oppo into a HDMI switch and then into the 2809 DVD port and then out to the TV ...

Jim .... I will try things the other way with regards to the cable box and see if I like it ... God knows I like watching baseball with the surround ... can't wait for football season

Thanks guy .... the more I learn the more I don't know

PS: I am tempted to upgrade ... but why bother for a few years .... beside I am getting the itch to go look at the new mcintosh MR88 ...
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post #3070 of 5676 Old 05-21-2009, 04:31 PM
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Jerry,

behave yourself on the upgrade itching boy!

Considering the new crop line of Denons, you'll be better off making a downgrade instead Not talking about the Macs, though...

Regards, Chuck

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post #3071 of 5676 Old 05-21-2009, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Leeds View Post

I will route the Kalediscape and the oppo into a HDMI switch and then into the 2809 DVD port and then out to the TV ...
...

Jerry, why is the HDMI switch and sharing the same HDMI input necessary? Aren't there enough HDMI inputs on the Denon for your needs?

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post #3072 of 5676 Old 05-21-2009, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Jerry, why is the HDMI switch and sharing the same HDMI input necessary? Aren't there enough HDMI inputs on the Denon for your needs?

Sure there are enough ... but I won't be using both players at the same time besides I already have the swtich and a few short HDMI cables
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post #3073 of 5676 Old 05-22-2009, 08:02 AM
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But, introducing that switch into the mix gives another possible handshake problem. Just assign another HDMI port to your two sources...you have four to work with.
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post #3074 of 5676 Old 05-22-2009, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Leeds View Post

Sure there are enough ... but I won't be using both players at the same time besides I already have the swtich and a few short HDMI cables

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

But, introducing that switch into the mix gives another possible handshake problem. Just assign another HDMI port to your two sources...you have four to work with.

Right, that's where I was going with this.

Jerry, if your cables are too short, consider that good HDMI cables don't have to be expensive; many discriminating AV folks are happy with the monoprice offerings (forum sponsors at top of page).

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post #3075 of 5676 Old 05-22-2009, 08:17 AM
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After entirely more effort than I should have had to go through, I am now a member of the 2809CI family!

It's in it's box in my trunk right now and I after work I'm heading out of town so the earliest I can play with this is Sunday night

I read enough of this and other threads to believe I made an excellent choice. I couldn't find any fatal flaws (except maybe an issue with Sony tvs, which doesn't apply to me anyway...) and everyone's experiences seem to be great and the price was right!

My home theater is now almost complete! I've been slooooooowly piecing it together for 3 years as money becomes available so I don't have to compromise on quality by lowering my budget. All that's left is some cabling, a subwoofer, some paint, a screen and riser and I'm done. Subwoofer may take another year to get but the rest should be done in under 3 months.

Equiptment so far:

2x Paradigm Studio 60's V.3
3x Paradigm Studio 20's V.5
Denon AVR 2809CI (replacing a NAD C320Bee 2.0 stereo amp)
Panasonic PT-AX200U Projector
2 Rows of 3 Theater Seats - Showtime Collection from HTAuthority

I'm stoked. It's all finally coming together. Being able to hook up those extra speakers will be nice - and I get to see what Audyssey can do for my room!
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post #3076 of 5676 Old 05-22-2009, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Soapbox Kid View Post

Here you go:...Let me know if any don't work (I may have transposed something wrong in converting them from K-Code or Denon-Sharp).

Some commands toggle as well. I can do all the individual DSP formats (Rock Arena, Jazz Club, etc) but I almost never use them ... if you want the discretes I can generate them. There are no discretes (as far as I know) for each Audyssey Mode or for turning Cinema EQ on or off.

PLII/PLIIx Game and Neural did not work (granted I have a Denon 08 series but all the other commands worked).
Restorer 1 and Restorer 2 are the same (at least the codes are the same)? Aren't they supposed to be different?
Tks a lot for these commands.
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post #3077 of 5676 Old 05-22-2009, 09:42 AM
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(If you have a Harmony) I have lots of other commands that can be copied from my account, I have tested and documented the function of all them. See the link in my sig for the google spreadsheet which documents everything.

'08 vs '09 is irrelevant, as the IR commands are generally the same.

I don't have a "Neural" discrete, but before you determine that it doesn't work you should know that Neural will ONLY work with a 2.0 PCM signal (digital or analog), so if you were trying to select it with another signal type that could be why it wasn't functioning.

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post #3078 of 5676 Old 05-22-2009, 09:54 AM
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I've seen this referenced a lot here without any explanation - what exactly is this "neural" feature?
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post #3079 of 5676 Old 05-22-2009, 10:05 AM
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p 72 of your manual. Wow. That write up was by someone who speaks English.

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #3080 of 5676 Old 05-22-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic_BomB View Post

I've seen this referenced a lot here without any explanation - what exactly is this "neural" feature?

Neural surround brief desc
Neural XM HD Surround

The Neural company is now part of DTS.
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post #3081 of 5676 Old 05-22-2009, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Logic_BomB View Post

...what exactly is this "neural" feature?

Some reading: http://hubpages.com/hub/NeuralSurround
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post #3082 of 5676 Old 05-22-2009, 11:00 AM
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again, it can only be applied to 2-channel sources (PCM only!), but it is a nice alternative to PLII or DTS Neo Music modes. If you are listening to a 2-ch PCM source (either 2.0PCM over digital or analog RCA's), when you hit the "Standard" button it cycles through PLII > DTS NEO > Neural.

I find the Neural does a lot more directional "steering" of the sound content, as opposed to PLII Music which just kind of mushes the front soundstage across your three front speakers. What this means though is that for Neural, especially when a particular song hasn't been mixed with a lot of stereo separation / spatial cues, a lot of the sound will "collapse" to the center channel. Most vocals and a good chunk of the main sound mix will become center channel only. You can verify this by listening to something like NPR radio, which is just mono split to two channels -- when you put on Neural EVERYTHING collapses to the center, there is ZERO sound out of the other speakers. PLII Music on the other hand will just "spread" the sound out across the three front speakers.

So if you have one of those tiny HTIB type center channels, or a center that lags behind the other speakers (for whatever reason), Neural can sound terrible.

I found I like Neural a lot more when I upgraded my center channel... you have to give it some time to get used to it though as it sounds quite different than DPLII Music mode, since that doesn't touch the Front L/R channels at all (preserving the stereo separation but blending the in phase parts into the center channel). So, in my experience, DPLII Music will provide more of a "wall of sound" effect across the front whereas Neural will get more localized with how it places the sound around the room.

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post #3083 of 5676 Old 05-23-2009, 08:54 AM
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I ran Audessey setup on my 2809 and was happy with the results without any tweaking.

But after a month of operation, suddenly the system has so much bass that I've been looking to see if there is a 'bass boost' button that I might have accidentally hit.

If I run the Denon without Audessey it sounds better, but still more bass than I would expect.

Is it possible that Audessey would go off like this? I've turned off my Sub, but my main speakers are also putting out extra bass.

I could rerun my Audessey setup, but I'm afraid that this situation will happen again if I don't understand what caused it.

p.s. Do most people tweak the audessey automatic setup?
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post #3084 of 5676 Old 05-23-2009, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twalkman View Post

I ran Audessey setup on my 2809 and was happy with the results without any tweaking. But after a month of operation, suddenly the system has so much bass that I've been looking to see if there is a 'bass boost' button that I might have accidentally hit.

Hey twalk. We'll assume you have not done something obvious like hooked up that new sub you've been drooling over or even changed the sub location. Or that you just hooked up a new BDP, removed a big rug or something like that. You say the mains are bassier too?
Anyway, it is not that Audyssey has "gone off" and there's no need to rerun autosetup just yet. Here's some possibilities that come to mind:
1. You just discovered Dynamic EQ? There is a big difference between just Audyssey and when the DynEQ/Vol features are on, particularly for bass and surrounds (Manual p 46).
2. Internal settings on the Denon were changed inadvertantly? Ex.: Has "Restorer" been turned on? (Manual p47) Has the Bass tone control been turned up?
3. Are your speakers (still) set to small?

Is this xs bass isolated to certain sources?

ps yes I think "most people" follow the Audyssey Setup Guide which recommends a few tweaks.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

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post #3085 of 5676 Old 05-23-2009, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Leeds View Post

I don't have to turn on my receiver all the time.

I used to do that. Then I realized I paid for my system with my hard-earned money so Im going to enjoy it all the time. I haven't looked back since. TV speakers are just awful.
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post #3086 of 5676 Old 05-23-2009, 11:15 AM
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folks - i have an opportunity to pick up a pair of vienna acoustics bach grand speakers for a great deal locally. these are, however, 4 ohm speakers. will the 2809 be ok driving them until i can pick up a dedicated amp? it may be several months to a year before i upgrade to a nice amp.

i can also buy a used pair of the original hyden (not grand) bookshelves locally, also a great deal. these are 6 ohm speakers. my hesitation with these is whether or not i'll wish i had bought the larger bach grands for my good-sized family room. the seller of these will let me audition them over the weekend, so i will take him up on that offer. but same question - will driving 6 ohm speakers be ok for the interim?

thanks,
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post #3087 of 5676 Old 05-23-2009, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THX1720 View Post

I used to do that. Then I realized I paid for my system with my hard-earned money so Im going to enjoy it all the time. I haven't looked back since. TV speakers are just awful.

Not having the Denon on while watching TV =a good ex. of "penny wise, pound foolish".


Quote:
Originally Posted by benny z View Post

folks - i have an opportunity to pick up a pair of vienna acoustics bach grand speakers for a great deal locally. these are, however, 4 ohm speakers. will the 2809 be ok driving them until i can pick up a dedicated amp? i can also buy a used pair of the original hyden (not grand) bookshelves locally, also a great deal. these are 6 ohm speakers. thanks,
ben

The Ohms is one factor (and 6 is fine). Other factors are how efficient the speakers are, how big a room, how loud you like it and how many speakers are being driven. The Denon has a self protective circuit which will basically prevent you from damaging anything. I'd say go ahead-try them out and see/hear for yourself.

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post #3088 of 5676 Old 05-23-2009, 03:54 PM
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A quick question guys,

AFAIK, the 2809 does not have the built-in DSD chipset for SACD audio; therefore it will always decode the DSD bitstreams to PCM, right?

In other hand, the 3808 and up does have such a chipset, so you can enjoy SACD in its full glory (DSD).

I'm asking you this, because it says so in the 2809 OM, but I believe that is an error though, as I could never ever get the DSD light on when listening to SACD thru HMDI...

Regards, Chuck

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post #3089 of 5676 Old 05-23-2009, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

The Denon has a self protective circuit which will basically prevent you from damaging anything. I'd say go ahead-try them out and see/hear for yourself.

Careful there .... this is true when speaking specifically of 4 ohm speakers as they can cause the Denon to overheat when raised to a loud volume for an extended period, however, when driving 8 ohm speakers, the speakers will generally clip before the Denon will, although this is much easier to do with the lower level Denons than the 2809. However, the speaker distortion is very noticeable and the volume can be turned down before any damage is done to the speakers.

A number of posters have used 4 ohm speakers in their setup without any issues at all, ensuring the volume was not raised to high.

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post #3090 of 5676 Old 05-23-2009, 09:54 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions.

No, no changes to my environment. I haven't purposedly changed anything with the receiver, but two possibilities are that 1) my toddler might have hit an obscure of the buttons on the front panel, or the comcast remote might have sent a fluke code to the receiver (I've stopped using that remote to control the receiver).

- I've always had the audessey EQ and Vol on, but I've since turned them off because Audessey has more bass than direct sound.

- I'll look through the audessey setup tomorrow and check tone, but I'd rather have audessey on so I can get vol control.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hey twalk. We'll assume you have not done something obvious like hooked up that new sub you've been drooling over or even changed the sub location. Or that you just hooked up a new BDP, removed a big rug or something like that. You say the mains are bassier too?
Anyway, it is not that Audyssey has "gone off" and there's no need to rerun autosetup just yet. Here's some possibilities that come to mind:
1. You just discovered Dynamic EQ? There is a big difference between just Audyssey and when the DynEQ/Vol features are on, particularly for bass and surrounds (Manual p 46).
2. Internal settings on the Denon were changed inadvertantly? Ex.: Has "Restorer" been turned on? (Manual p47) Has the Bass tone control been turned up?
3. Are your speakers (still) set to small?

Is this xs bass isolated to certain sources?

ps yes I think "most people" follow the Audyssey Setup Guide which recommends a few tweaks.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

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