"Official" Denon AVR 2809CI/989 Thread - Page 125 - AVS Forum
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post #3721 of 5676 Old 08-06-2009, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post

My Amazon 989 arrived today. Like several weeks early. Not that I'm complaining! It shipped from some place in PA no less.

But now that I've got the thing unpacked I've got first hand knowledge of just how bad the manual is. I know, I know, y'all warned me! So it's not a surprise. But jeez. I spent at least 30 minutes just trying to figure out how to tune in a different FM station with the tuner. It's amazing how difficult they make some of this stuff.

Why does everything require steep learning curves? I'm an old engineer -- I've climbed enough learning curves for three or four (or five or six...) people now. I'm ready for something to be simple and intuitive for a change.

The sound quality is worth it though. Right? Gonna go read Batpig's manual now...

can always sell it to someone who missed the sale because he was at work...
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post #3722 of 5676 Old 08-06-2009, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Normally I'd agree with you, however, this ain't just any ordinary soundbar. In fact the CNET review indicates that Definitive suggests NOT using the Denon's AUTO SETUP feature, rather setting the speakers manually.

Well that's why I asked "WHY?".

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #3723 of 5676 Old 08-06-2009, 06:28 PM
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I received my 989 today! Now I am just trying to understand everything before I start to set it up. I have a question about the A and B speaker inputs. From Batpigs manual it states you need an external amp to power zone 2 if you are using a 7.1 setup. Is it possible to listen to the same music on the A speakers and B speakers at the same time and not have the Amp? Is the external amp only needed if you want to listen to two different sources at once?
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post #3724 of 5676 Old 08-06-2009, 07:26 PM
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Yes to both questions. The "A" speakers and "B" speakers would run off the same amp.

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post #3725 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Picture View Post

Unfortunately sperate speakers are not an option in my case. Worst case, I'll just bypass the Audyssey setup and enjoy all the other features of the 989. For what I paid for the 989 yesterday it's all good.

After you get your new system set up, please report back with a review of the sound bar quality and as well as it's ability to simulate the surround speakers. Thanks!

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post #3726 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes to both questions. The "A" speakers and "B" speakers would run off the same amp.

Thanks for the response. I was unaware about this with the Denon, especially a higher end model. My older Onkyo 601 had Zone 2 capability out of the box without the need for an external amp.
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post #3727 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 05:59 AM
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The 2809 is considered the top of Denon's "low" end models. As with the other Denon 7.1/5.1+Zone 2 models you either have the option of 7.1 or 5.1 + Zone 2 stereo (w/the 2809 and higher you also get 5.1 + Zone 2 mono + Zone 3 mono) using the AVR's amps. Looking at the Onkyo 601 Owner's Manual, although you had Zone 2 "out of the box", you lost the surround ability in the main zone as it had to drop down to stereo 2.1 in order to provide stereo to the Zone 2 as it is only a 6.1 system. Clearly ALL 2009/2010 Denon models offer a better configuration setup then then what the 601 offers.

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post #3728 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Clearly ALL 2009/2010 Denon models offer a better configuration setup then then what the 601 offers.

Oh absolutely, that is one of the reasons for the upgrade. So then is it possible to then listen two the FM tuner in "zone 1" and then a cd player in "zone 2" as long as they are both 2 channel without an external amp.
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post #3729 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 07:01 AM
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The main zone doesn't have to be 2 channel (like your 601) when Zone 2 is used. As I said, the Denon's offer FULL 5.1 surround in the main zone even with Zone 2 being used. The only restriction is Zone 2 audio must be "analog" 2 channel (ie RCA cable) as opposed to digital (hdmi, coax, optical).

Seems your're still stuck in your 601 world. You originally asked whether an external amp is required for Zone 2 with a 7.1 setup. The answer is yes. When the AVR is only 7.1 then it can only offer a total of 8 channels (7+1). You would have to jump up to a 9.1 AVR to have 7.1 + Zone 2 stereo for a total of (7+1+2=10 channels) without using an external amp. With all the Zone 2 Denon models, using only a 5.1 setup in the main zone, you do not require an external amp for Zone 2.

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post #3730 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emelius View Post

can always sell it to someone who missed the sale because he was at work...

And yet I made the sale. Got one of the $550 Amazon 989s. Now all I have to do is figure out how to run it.
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post #3731 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 10:53 AM
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I wouldn't say that I am stuck in a 601 world, just rather trying to get a better understanding on the 989. Thank you for your help, you did clarify my question for me.
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post #3732 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post

...I'm ready for something to be simple and intuitive for a change. ....

Sorry, but it's all about "feature packed" right now to compete with the other manufacturers out there. Think in terms of the latest MS Office rather than your first stereo receiver with a bass and treble knob! However, let Audyssey run its magic, and you'll quickly think some of the chips inside are really quite useful! By the way, I'm an old guy too!
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post #3733 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 03:14 PM
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Hello everyone,
I am new to these forums and I am trying to get back into something that resembles modern technology. After many years paying off debts and buying a house I am finally getting around to working on a living room which I want to use as a small home theater setup. I am looking for some advice on if I got some good deals or if I need to run back and do an exchange on something, also a couple of simple questions.

Over the last week I upgraded from an old 27" JVC CRT TV to a Samsung LN46A850 LCD TV. I bought a Demo model from Best Buy for $999.

I also just upgraded from an VERY old Yamaha which only had original Pro Logic support (sorry I don't remember the model) to a Denon 2809CI, which was a floor model I bought at Ultimate Electonics for $699.

I currently have a pair of VERY old, but what I think are great sounding B&W V201 speakers. I have a VERY old Pioneer DV-414 DVD Player, an Xbox 360 and a Nintendo Wii, and a PS2. (PS3 will hopefully come later this year)

I have a standard def Comcast box going into the Cable/Sat input. I have my DVD going into the DVD input, and I have my game systems plugged into a device switcher which plugs into the HDP port.

Questions:
1> Assuming I am careful on the volume control do I have to worry about blowing out my speakers? The Denon is rated a lot higher then my speakers. The V201's I think are 65W/100WMax at 4 Ohms.

2> Everything I have right now uses Component cables, do I need to use HDMI from the 2809 to the TV to take advantage of the built-in upscaler for my DVD and lower-end game systems?

3> I do have in a box some old, cheap Sony Center and Surrounds, is it worth hooking these up, or just wait until I have some better speakers? To me the Sony speakers have a tinny sound to them. Would the 2809 be able to salvage these and make some good use of them?

I appreciate any help and advice. Sorry for the long post, and I hope this is all relevant enough to be in this thread.
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post #3734 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post

And yet I made the sale. Got one of the $550 Amazon 989s. Now all I have to do is figure out how to run it.

ya...i saw the sale, but only had the iPhone w/me....i should've written down a temporary paypal mastercard number...when i got home it was gone...

at that price it's worth buying even just as a pre/pro....

oh well...live & learn...at least now i have money leftover for network attached storage for streaming to a different receiver...maybe have to bite the bullet & get the 3808...
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post #3735 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 04:08 PM
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I think I've got this 989 sorted out. At least the first pass ;-) Much thanks to Batpig for his manual translation!

Got the tuner working -- can't believe there's no manual tuning though. Very interesting take -- if I want to try for a weak station I have to just keep scanning hoping to land it? Oy. Maybe I'll find out how to do that on my second pass.

OTOH, got HDMI working. My Panny BD60 is sending Blu-rays over at 1080/24p, the receiver is sending it on to the display untouched, but pulling off the lossless soundtrack and making a wonderful noise! These machines are good.

I'm a happy camper. And wifey is going to let me live. I think. It's such an improvement that she's thinking it was a good idea after all.
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post #3736 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monshroud View Post

Questions:
1> Assuming I am careful on the volume control do I have to worry about blowing out my speakers? The Denon is rated a lot higher then my speakers. The V201's I think are 65W/100WMax at 4 Ohms.

Shouldn't have to worry, just turn down the volume if you hear any signs of distortion / clipping.


Quote:


2> Everything I have right now uses Component cables, do I need to use HDMI from the 2809 to the TV to take advantage of the built-in upscaler for my DVD and lower-end game systems?

Correct, the video conversion on the 2809 is only analog > HDMI scaling, so to utilize the Faroudja upscaling you need to connect the video sources with analog video (component, composite, or S-Video) and then run an HDMI cable to the TV. Keep the TV tuned to that one HDMI input and use the Denon to switch sources. If you leave the resolution output to "Auto" it will scale everything to the highest rez your TV accepts (1080p).

Although, because you have a VERY nice display (and a fine price you got too!!) it is POSSIBLE that the upscaling in the Sammy is superior to that in the Denon. You can experiment with different output resolutions (or even turning off the scaler completely) to see if the picture looks better with the TV doing the processing.


Quote:


3> I do have in a box some old, cheap Sony Center and Surrounds, is it worth hooking these up, or just wait until I have some better speakers? To me the Sony speakers have a tinny sound to them. Would the 2809 be able to salvage these and make some good use of them?

that is a big time "the only way to know is to try". My gut is that the center will sound terrible and stick out like a sore thumb, but because it's not as critical to match the surrounds you may like the effect they provide. Those B&W's will probably sound better sans cheapo-Sony-center for the time being.... but again, the only way to know is to try!

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http://batpigworld.com/

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post #3737 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monshroud View Post

Hello everyone...

Hi. Welcome, Mon. Don't fret long posts or relevance around here at all. We are so mellow! Looks like you got some great deals on good stuff and are off to a good start. Please read the batpig Guide and Audyssey setup guide to help you get started. Then call comcast and get a HDDVR.
1. A solid amp is no threat to your speakers, no worry. Just don't go nuts.
2. In fact you must use component to use the Denon video chip, HDMI is passed thru untouched. The question is do you want the Denon or the TV doing the video work? (I'm thinkin the TV).
3. Why not see what Audyssey can do for the Sony speakers while you shop for others? When you do, keep in mind it is a good idea to try to match the 3front speakers as closely as possible and the CC does more work than you would think in most 5.1 material.

batpig! Again!

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #3738 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 04:50 PM
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dude, that was 10 full minutes later! did you take a nap whilst composing your reply?

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post #3739 of 5676 Old 08-07-2009, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

....and the CC does more work than you would think in most 5.1 material.

+1
In fact if the setup is used primarily for TV and movies, it's suggested the Center speaker make up roughly 30% of the total speaker budget considering that roughly 85+% of the dialog comes from there.

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post #3740 of 5676 Old 08-08-2009, 09:10 AM
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OK all you gurus out there. THis is probably an easy one. (except for me)


Batpig. First let me say that your info helped. Thanks,


I have the 989 up and running. Sounds GREAT in 5.1. Love the auto setup.

However,
Im confused and obviously missing something (not the first time)



Have it configured to 5.1 + zone 2. Zone 2 is backyard speakers.

I have them working but dont know how to change the volume (except in zone 2 setup).

What am I missing?

Thanks for the help.
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post #3741 of 5676 Old 08-08-2009, 09:19 AM
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The 2809 remote is different than what I am used to but there has to be a way to put it in "zone 2" control mode. You can't do it on the unit itself AFAIK.

Don't you have a little zone 2 remote with the 2809 also?

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post #3742 of 5676 Old 08-08-2009, 09:33 AM
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The 989 only comes with a single remote which is similar to the other lower level model remotes. The Zone 2 volume can be changed from either the front panel or from the remote itself. Refer to p. 67 of the Owner's manual to change using either way.

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post #3743 of 5676 Old 08-08-2009, 09:39 AM
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Thanks for the quick response.

Well, THAT WAS IT. It was on the remote. (I have the 989 not the 2809 so no 2nd remote).

I never even bothered to check the remote. I did look everywhere on the 989.

THere is a small slide switch on the bottom of the remote to select the unit to control.

Apprecitate it much.
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post #3744 of 5676 Old 08-09-2009, 07:54 AM
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Just got mine...

AM I missing something on HDMI #2? Seems like I cant make my cable box or DVD work on it.
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post #3745 of 5676 Old 08-09-2009, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boraxman View Post

Just got mine...on HDMI #2? Seems like I cant make my cable box or DVD work on it.

borax, welcome. Follow the setup Guide?http://batpigworld.com/
Also see if this post helps:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post16969836

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #3746 of 5676 Old 08-09-2009, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

borax, welcome. Follow the setup Guide?http://batpigworld.com/
Also see if this post helps:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post16969836

Thanks, I will certainly try BP's set-up. Nice job Batpig!


*EDIT* Got it!
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post #3747 of 5676 Old 08-09-2009, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boraxman View Post

...Am I missing something on HDMI #2?....

As SoM stated, it's all in the setup, and you need to properly enable that connection. It's in the Manual Setup part of the settings menu.
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post #3748 of 5676 Old 08-09-2009, 01:20 PM
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Still playing with my new 989. I don't have a full 5.1 set of speakers yet. Just the two fronts which may or may not be part of the eventual 5.1 or 7.1 setup. Still, way better than my TV's crappy speakers!

Being curious, I dropped those two speakers on the floor about where I thought they should be. No fine tuning the placement. Just a first guess. Listened to some music (CD) through the 989 just to get a feel for the starting point.

Then I ran the Audyssey setup. Pretty simple and surprisingly quick. It took so few samples that I figured it wouldn't be worth a lot.

When I listened again with Audyssey turned on, just a 2.0 setup, I was pretty impressed. It extended the bottom end on these speakers another half octave, fixed the mid-bass hump, cleaned up the high end and tookout most of the beamy and bright qualities. And most surprising to me -- it created a really nice, big and stable sound stage. With Audyssey running I could pick out every instrument of the Vienna Symphony with relative ease.

I'm just sayin' this Audyssey stuff is more than a multi-band equalizer on steroids. It's pretty impressive. I understand why it's getting so much attention now.

But the kicker was turning on the Audyssey Dynamic EQ feature. That thing works beautifully! Makes it listenable at any volume level. Best part -- wife loves it! Now she can get me to turn it down and not loose the bottom end or strain to hear the voices.

The more I play with the 989, the more I find to like.

Thanks to the participants on this thread for convincing me to snag one. I appreciate the help.
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post #3749 of 5676 Old 08-10-2009, 08:07 AM
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woohoo! my amazon estimated ship date changed from Sept 21 to Aug 13 and they are preparing the order (can't be canceled) so it looks like I will be getting it. I'm so happy amazon was able to fill the order, I thought for sure it was going to be canceled.

So I'll soon be joining the club! Now I just have to wait and read all of Batpig's documentation. Think I'll order some nice new hdmi cables from monoprice while I'm waiting.
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post #3750 of 5676 Old 08-10-2009, 09:17 AM
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Just wanted to say Thanks to batpig and SoundofMind. So far I haven't raised the volume past -18db, and everything sounds clean. I have not had the chance to do the Mic setup, since the store accidentally gave me the wrong Mic and I read somewhere in here that you want to use the Mic the 2809 comes with. They are getting a local Denon rep to ship me one and hopefully I will have it later this week or next.

I have not hooked up a HDMI cable yet, and if that means that my TV is doing the upscaling then it is doing an incredible job. Watched the directors cut of Dark City and Ironman and they looked amazing. Blacks were black, nice grey scale in my opinion. Colors were crisp and I didn't see any issues with jaggies.

I am running the 2809 with defaults right now. I can tell I am not getting the best sound out of my speakers, hopefully that will change after the Audysey setup.

I have another question for you guys. I turned off the Center, surrounds, and sub in the manual setup. I was not sure where to set the crossover cutoff though. Right now I have it set at 100Hz. Is that too high or low? (They are B&W V201) I am not hearing any distortion issues on lower end sounds, I am just worried about overdriving the speakers or overheating the amps due to the Ohm difference.

Overall I am really happy with the 2809, I do feel a bit over my head on it, but I think that is just the learning curve I am in going through. To me it is putting out a nice full sound and has a great feature set. Once the Mic comes in I think I will try hooking up those old Sony center and surrounds to see what the 2809 can do with them. It will either work out nice, or I will have to wait a bit before I can get a full set of B&W 600 series, or find something cheaper that sounds good. Haven't been speaker shopping in a long time...
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