"Official" Denon AVR 2809CI/989 Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 5676 Old 09-22-2008, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hdmi4ever View Post

The Audyssey is probably the only thing in the 2809 that is likely to improve the sound over what you already have. The rest of it is just features for your convenience ... HDMI, more digital audio inputs, etc. If you have Blu-Ray or SACD or DVD-Audio, you'll be able to transmit the high-resolution sound digitally via HDMI (but note that some players won't transmit SACD or DVD-Audio over HDMI).

Thanks.

Where can I learn more about audyssey? I'd like to know if this feature is worth a grand to me.
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post #362 of 5676 Old 09-22-2008, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Node View Post

Thanks.

Where can I learn more about audyssey? I'd like to know if this feature is worth a grand to me.

Where else, but Audyssey.com? Read their section on MultEQ and Dynamic EQ.

For a little theoretical background, check out this explanation of Equal loudness curves. Audyssey's Dynamic EQ feature builds upon that type of research, boosting certain frequency ranges to compensate for the human ear's relatively lower sensitivity to them at low volume.
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post #363 of 5676 Old 09-22-2008, 10:24 PM
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I bought a 15" HDMI cable, and all is working fine now.

I'm thinking about going for the 65' HDMI cable, and using the HDMI Extender for another screen that I plan to mount later.
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post #364 of 5676 Old 09-22-2008, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmi4ever View Post

Where else, but Audyssey.com? Read their section on MultEQ and Dynamic EQ.

For a little theoretical background, check out this explanation of Equal loudness curves. Audyssey's Dynamic EQ feature builds upon that type of research, boosting certain frequency ranges to compensate for the human ear's relatively lower sensitivity to them at low volume.

So my older receiver has nothing like this? This is an entirely new technology?

I guess the only way I can determine if its worth it is to go to Best Buy. Its the only A/V store in my area and I doubt they would be much help anyway.

I am hoping this $1,000 upgrade would be worth it over upgrading other parts of my system. I certainly couldn't get a better set of speakers for just $1,000.
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post #365 of 5676 Old 09-22-2008, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Node View Post

So my older receiver has nothing like this? This is an entirely new technology?

I guess the only way I can determine if its worth it is to go to Best Buy. Its the only A/V store in my area and I doubt they would be much help anyway.

Audyssey works in a room-specific way (for its initial setup you have to use a mike so the receiver can take measurements at different points in the room including the listening position), so if Audyssey is what you're interested in you need to know the effect it has in your listening room. Buy it from somewhere that will let you return it after 14 or more days with no restocking fee, so you can test it out in your place properly. Trying that feature in Best Buy will be useless.

Quote:


I am hoping this $1,000 upgrade would be worth it over upgrading other parts of my system. I certainly couldn't get a better set of speakers for just $1,000.

You'll probably get more sound improvement by spending the $1000 on the room acoustics, instead of on a new receiver. But if you've already put significant acoustic treatments on the walls, then it's time to look at spending the money on your electronics and/or speakers.

What are your current speakers? Maybe you can get a significant upgrade in sound quality by spending $1000 on the front 3 and keeping the existing subwoofer and surrounds, even if $1000 for a whole 5.1 system won't be an upgrade. Or just spending $1000 on the subwoofer alone can make a big difference.
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post #366 of 5676 Old 09-22-2008, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmi4ever View Post

Audyssey works in a room-specific way (for its initial setup you have to use a mike so the receiver can take measurements at different points in the room including the listening position), so if Audyssey is what you're interested in you need to know the effect it has in your listening room. Buy it from somewhere that will let you return it after 14 or more days with no restocking fee, so you can test it out in your place properly. Trying that feature in Best Buy will be useless.

You'll probably get more sound improvement by spending the $1000 on the room acoustics, instead of on a new receiver. But if you've already put significant acoustic treatments on the walls, then it's time to look at spending the money on your electronics and/or speakers.

What are your current speakers? Maybe you can get a significant upgrade in sound quality by spending $1000 on the front 3 and keeping the existing subwoofer and surrounds, even if $1000 for a whole 5.1 system won't be an upgrade. Or just spending $1000 on the subwoofer alone can make a big difference.

These might be my speakers:
http://www.klipsch.com/products/disc...ails/rf-3.aspx
I bought all of my speakers at the same time, all of my other speakers are of the same make and were meant to compliment one another.
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post #367 of 5676 Old 09-23-2008, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Node View Post

These might be my speakers:
http://www.klipsch.com/products/disc...ails/rf-3.aspx
I bought all of my speakers at the same time, all of my other speakers are of the same make and were meant to compliment one another.

What's your subwoofer? Given what you already have, assuming you like the 'Klipsch sound', if you want to go in the direction of spending $1000 on speakers you might be better off keeping those RF-3's and putting the $1000 into a subwoofer. For $1000 there are a number of thunderous options to choose from. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9164136
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post #368 of 5676 Old 09-23-2008, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by hdmi4ever View Post

What's your subwoofer? Given what you already have, assuming you like the 'Klipsch sound', if you want to go in the direction of spending $1000 on speakers you might be better off keeping those RF-3's and putting the $1000 into a subwoofer. For $1000 there are a number of thunderous options to choose from. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9164136

I'm not saying I like "Klipsch sound" more than the others. They were a good deal at the time. I've been told Klipsch is more for people who want powerful sound, instead of clarity. Clarity is what I would prefer today.

I can't choose a too powerful sub, since I live in an apartment. This is my current subwoofer: http://www.amazon.com/JBL-400-Watt-F.../dp/B0000632GP
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post #369 of 5676 Old 09-23-2008, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys this thread is against the AVR-2809.

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post #370 of 5676 Old 09-23-2008, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Node View Post

I'm not saying I like "Klipsch sound" more than the others. They were a good deal at the time. I've been told Klipsch is more for people who want powerful sound, instead of clarity. Clarity is what I would prefer today.

Well if you want that much of a change in the sound, new speakers are the way to go. Search and post in the speaker forum about what you can get for a front 3 for your $1000 budget, with clarity and detail being a priority over power and thunder. It's not all that important for the surrounds to match the fronts (although some purists would disagree) ... get a good front 3 that you really like, rather than staying with 5 or 7 that you don't like so much. Then once you get those 3, come back to discuss receivers. Receivers are just icing to make a cake you already like even sweeter; speakers are the main thing to change if you want a different flavor.
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post #371 of 5676 Old 09-23-2008, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmi4ever View Post

Do you have a subwoofer? If yes, is it on a subdude or something similar to isolate it from mechanically vibrating the floor?

What is your floor made of, wood? If it's wood he'll probably still hear the bass, unless there is concrete or a thick layer of soundproofing below it. If it's concrete, the subdude may solve the problem except when you play it loud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyeddie View Post

My situation is just the opposite. I have a grouchy neighbor who lives in the unit below me. When he is gone there is no problem. But when he is home the bass is just a bit much with Dynamic Volume midnight setting. Is there a way that I can either change the speaker setting to small or do a manual adjust and still be able to use the Dynamic Volume?

Thankyou hdmi4ever. I`m guessing that since John didn`t answer that there is indeed a limitation to the Audyssey setup, and Dynamic sound. I`ll have to admit that I am a bit dissappointed that I can`t just use the Dynamic sound with MY preferred settings. Not that the Audyssey setup is bad or anything like that. But in my mind I can`t see it being a hard thing to do. Other than for propriatary reasons.

I have no subwoofer. I had a 15 inch Velodyne and no matter how low I set it I had the neighbor knocking on my door. So I sold it.
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post #372 of 5676 Old 09-23-2008, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyeddie View Post

I have no subwoofer. I had a 15 inch Velodyne and no matter how low I set it I had the neighbor knocking on my door. So I sold it.

With a thin floor like that, maybe what you really need is a good pair of headphones and a headphone amplifier, rather than a new receiver and speakers. Or a new place to live!
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post #373 of 5676 Old 09-23-2008, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyeddie View Post

Thankyou hdmi4ever. I`m guessing that since John didn`t answer that there is indeed a limitation to the Audyssey setup, and Dynamic sound. I`ll have to admit that I am a bit dissappointed that I can`t just use the Dynamic sound with MY preferred settings. Not that the Audyssey setup is bad or anything like that. But in my mind I can`t see it being a hard thing to do. Other than for propriatary reasons.

Some of us do get busy at times.

First you have to setup Audyssey via speaker detection, then take multiple measurements with several positions of the microphone, then allow the 2809 to go through the calculations. After Audyssey is setup then you can make manual adjustments if you want, and use one of three reference settings to set the kind of Dynamic Volume effect (day-night-midnight). There is also night mode also that you can use for immediate dynamic volume compression if not using Dynamic Voice + EQ.

Dynamic Volume is a wonderful solution to not disturbing the neighbors but yet still hearing a full frequency audio without noticing dynamic range compression. It does work!

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post #374 of 5676 Old 09-23-2008, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmi4ever View Post

You'll probably get more sound improvement by spending the $1000 on the room acoustics, instead of on a new receiver. But if you've already put significant acoustic treatments on the walls, then it's time to look at spending the money on your electronics and/or speakers.

Hey when i switched out my old receiver, to the 2809, it made a lot of difference in audio performance. Even with your existing speakers going to a new receiver can be of great benefit, especially a receiver using Audyssey Dynamic Volume and EQ.

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post #375 of 5676 Old 09-24-2008, 04:38 AM
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John, do I just select the manual setup to change the values of the Audyssey to my liking? Then do I still leave the Audyssey on so that I can use the EQ and volume control? Thanks,

Matt
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post #376 of 5676 Old 09-24-2008, 09:12 AM
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right, in the AUTO SETUP menu you can't change anything, that's where you run Audyssey and then you can always go back there and check on the reference values that Audyssey calculated (things like speaker distance, channel level).

in the MANUAL SETUP is where you can tweak it yourself. For example, this is where you could raise the crossover frequency for small speakers or tweak the levels (if Audyssey sets your center channel lower than you like for example, or if you want to bump up the sub a little bit because you think Audyssey flattens the bass too much).

Then, when hit the RoomEQ button or whatever to engage the Audyssey EQ curve, it will still apply the filters/EQ but to your tweaked settings. That is now your "reference" and when you engage the Dynamic EQ/Vol they then try to dynamically maintain that "reference" regardless of what volume level you are at.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

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post #377 of 5676 Old 09-24-2008, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayboy911 View Post

John, do I just select the manual setup to change the values of the Audyssey to my liking? Then do I still leave the Audyssey on so that I can use the EQ and volume control? Thanks,

Matt

Some more useful links, since Batpig was quicker then I was.

Audyssey Setup - One Step at a Time

Audyssey FAQ

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post #378 of 5676 Old 09-24-2008, 09:24 AM
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Thanks, I'll play around with it some more tonight.
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post #379 of 5676 Old 09-24-2008, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Some of us do get busy at times.

First you have to setup Audyssey via speaker detection, then take multiple measurements with several positions of the microphone, then allow the 2809 to go through the calculations. After Audyssey is setup then you can make manual adjustments if you want, and use one of three reference settings to set the kind of Dynamic Volume effect (day-night-midnight). There is also night mode also that you can use for immediate dynamic volume compression if not using Dynamic Voice + EQ.

Dynamic Volume is a wonderful solution to not disturbing the neighbors but yet still hearing a full frequency audio without noticing dynamic range compression. It does work!

I have already setup Audyssey from 8 positions. I don`t understand how to make manual adjustments after Audyssey is set up and be able to use the dynamic volume. From menu I??????????????????
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post #380 of 5676 Old 09-25-2008, 12:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyeddie View Post

I have already setup Audyssey from 8 positions. I don`t understand how to make manual adjustments after Audyssey is set up and be able to use the dynamic volume. From menu I??????????????????

What modifications do you wish to make after running Auto setup? Speaker size, channel level, EQ changes, distance, or crossover? Manual speaker configuration allows speaker size, distance and crossover. (Page 27-29)
Channel level on pages 28, 59. EQ customize/manual is on page 31.

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post #381 of 5676 Old 09-25-2008, 02:20 PM
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I'm not sure if this is the best thread to post this question in, but I thought I would start here to see if anyone had any ideas or could point me to a better place to post.

I am trying to connect my Dell Studio laptop to my 2809 receiver using an HDMI cable and am having no luck in getting audio to the receiver.

Laptop details:
Dell Studio 1735
Processor: Core 2 Duo T9300 @ 2.5GHz
RAM: 4GB
OS: Vista Ultimate 32-bit
Graphics card: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650
Audio: Microsoft High Definition Audio
Chipset: Mobile Intel GM965

Here are the troubleshooting steps I have tried so far:
  1. Confirmed that the system playback device in Vista is set to the "Digital Output Device (HDMI)" device and that this device is set as the default. Also confirmed that the volume setting is at the maximum and is not muted.

  2. Connected the laptop using an HDMI cable directly to my 60" Sony XBR1 and Bravia HDTVs. With this connection, audio is output on both of the TVs with no problem. This confirms that audio at least works on the laptop with two different HDMI devices.

  3. Connected the laptop using the same HDMI cable normally connected to my Roku Netflix player, which is in turn connected to the receiver using input HDMI 2 - HDP. No sound using this connection. This rules out a systemic problem with the HDMI cable I am using to test the laptop with.

  4. Connected the laptop to an open HDMI input on the receiver (HDMI 3 - SAT) and confirmed that in the receiver menu that the Assign settings for the SAT input had HDMI set to HDMI3, Digital In set to None, Input Mode set to Auto and Decode Mode set to Auto. No sound using this connection.

  5. Connected the Roku player to the same SAT input (HDMI 3) and confirmed that video and audio were working as expected from the Roku. This rules out errors in the setup of the SAT input in the receiver's menu.

All of my HDMI cables are high-quality cables from bluejeanscable.com and have all been tested previously using multiple devices, so I am certain that the cables can be ruled as known-good. The laptop outputs audio to two different TVs using HDMI, so this confirms that audio works from the laptop's HDMI port. The receiver's HDMI ports are confirmed as working by connecting other devices such as the Roku Player and also my TiVo Series 3.

In all cases, the video over the HDMI port worked perfectly and at multiple different resolutions (I mainly used 1280x720p). It's just the no audio that's got me completely stumped.

Can anyone offer any suggestions on what I might try next to make this work? I can post up screenshots of Windows settings or whatever might be needed.

Thank you in advance.

Dennis
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post #382 of 5676 Old 09-25-2008, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I would first hook the laptops HDMI cable to HDMI1 used by DVD and select quick select position 1 and see if you get Audio. If it does then it's the 2809 HDMI configuration against HDMI-SAT input.

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post #383 of 5676 Old 09-25-2008, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

What modifications do you wish to make after running Auto setup? Speaker size, channel level, EQ changes, distance, or crossover? Manual speaker configuration allows speaker size, distance and crossover. (Page 27-29)
Channel level on pages 28, 59. EQ customize/manual is on page 31.

Thank you John. Your a great help to everyone here. And also thanks to the dialog between Bayboy and Batpig I got it figured out. Since I am not using a subwoofer it wasn`t allowing me to switch fronts to small because it automatically switches sub to on which adds something that I don`t have and thus Audyssey doesn`t recognize it as being already setup.
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post #384 of 5676 Old 09-25-2008, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

I would first hook the laptops HDMI cable to HDMI1 used by DVD and select quick select position 1 and see if you get Audio. If it does then it's the 2809 HDMI configuration against HDMI-SAT input.

John,

Thanks for the reply. I will give this a shot when I get back home tomorrow and let you know how it turns out.

Dennis
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post #385 of 5676 Old 09-26-2008, 09:51 AM
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I picked up a 989 last night for the bedroom. It replaced my 2807 I had in there.

From the little I got to play with it last night, the Dynamic EQ is very impressive.

I cannot wait to get these features on my 4308.


Later

Speakers: Martin Logan Montis, EM C2, Dual Depth I Subs, JBL S38 surround (upgrading soon) | Processor: Yamaha CX-A5000 | Amp: Sunfire TGA-5400 | Sources: DirecTV HR34, HTPC, Mac Mini, Oppo BDP-103, PS4, PS3, Xbox One, Wii U | Television: Panasonic 65VT50 | Remote: Logitech Harmony Ultimate
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post #386 of 5676 Old 09-26-2008, 11:46 AM
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I know batpig said in one of the other Denon threads that the 2809 is the the first in the line to be able to output a digital audio to zone 2 (and 3). Say you are watching TV in zone one with audio via HDMI or optical, can you also pipe the signal to zones 2 and 3 at the same time?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I really haven't been following the 2809.
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post #387 of 5676 Old 09-27-2008, 02:11 PM
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Has the price of the 2809 dropped yet? When is a good time to get it? ALSO, i have the old Denon 2802 and it's 90watts. Will i notice a BIG improvement going to 115watts from the 2809?
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post #388 of 5676 Old 09-27-2008, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

if you already have a component cable hardwired to the display, there is no reason to only use the one HDMI connection to the monitor. HDMI is real finicky especially over longer runs, as you have discovered, and there is actually some very slight signal degradation on the analog>digital transcode.

Simply plug in the component cables to the component monitor output of the 2809, and use the analog monitor output for all analog sources and the hdmi output for digital sources. That's how my setup works.

The convenience of the 1-cable thing is sort of nullified in your case because you already have the cable run in your installation.

Just for FUN,

I ordered the 60' BlueJean HDMI cable, and had the same issue as before. I was able to get Digital Video/Sound, however my with Analog (2809 On Screen Display & WII) I could only get Sound, no picture.

So, I used my Component connection as you mentioned above and all is good.

A question that I have, is if I have both the HDMI (connected to Monitor Out HDMI) and the Component (connected to Component out) going from the 2809 to the Panny Plasma, is there any conflict with what signal is going through each cable.

Is it worth still keeping the HDMI cable???

And yes I am still reading this manual, and reading these posts to get me through the setup,

Thanks ALL...

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post #389 of 5676 Old 09-27-2008, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nin1974 View Post

Has the price of the 2809 dropped yet? When is a good time to get it? ALSO, i have the old Denon 2802 and it's 90watts. Will i notice a BIG improvement going to 115watts from the 2809?

Yes if you check nextag or pricegrabber. The 2809 is a world apart from the 2802 which didn't even offer a 32 bit processor, and the 2809 offers two 32 bit Sharc processors for example. The biggest changes support for Audyssey MultiEQ XT which your 2802 didn't have, and now offers support for Audyssey Dynamic Volume and EQ which will wow you. There was no equalization at all in the 2802. Next support for Dolby True HD, and DTS-Master HD, and four HDMI inputs. The 115 watts versus 90 watts is icing on the cake for you to consider. You also have a receiver ready for Ipod's, XM and Sirius radio. Use the Denon Ipod adapter and you can also have internet radio stations or stream music from your computer.

Just listen to a DVD with a Dolby Digital 2.0 sound track that you can now make 5.1 or 7.1 using Digital Dolby + PLIIx Cinema or DTS Neo 6. The 2802 was stuck with stereo only.

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post #390 of 5676 Old 09-28-2008, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellerbrewing View Post

I know batpig said in one of the other Denon threads that the 2809 is the the first in the line to be able to output a digital audio to zone 2 (and 3). Say you are watching TV in zone one with audio via HDMI or optical, can you also pipe the signal to zones 2 and 3 at the same time?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I really haven't been following the 2809.

Zone 2 video + stereo audio, Zone 3 stereo audio

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