"Official" Denon AVR 2809CI/989 Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 5682 Old 08-19-2008, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16x9enhanced View Post

john--thanks for the info.
btw: I thought part of the idea behind going for higher wattage was to allow your speakers to be pushed more efficiently, and allow them to produce the sound they are capable of. Is this correct?
I understand that the actual volume may be no different.

Yes, the quality of the amplifier is more important than just the wattage output. Also better amplifiers can deliver their full power continuously, not limited to a specific length of time. Higher wattage amp's usually offer the necessary dynamic headroom to output power at a significantly higher level for short periods to accommodate musical peaks or extreme sound effects in films.

BTW here's a nice article Decoding Amp Power Specs that covers output power spec's.

Thus the 2809 is a bit better sounding then the 2309, just as the 2309 sound a bit better then the 1909, and you can hear this at identical volume levels with the same music if you compare them.

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post #32 of 5682 Old 08-19-2008, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

The sound quality I would say is on par with the 3808.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

The receivers sound better as you go up in price, because of better power supply's and amp's used in more expensive receivers. On the older Denon line I listened to you could hear a less dynamic sound environment as you went downward from the 2808 to the 2308 to the 1908. There's not much difference between the 2808 and the 3808. Now the 2809 has been bumped up to 115 watts from 110 watts that the 2808 provided.

I have read of several people over the years here at AVS that have heard a dynamics difference between 28XX and 38XX series AVRs. The wattage specs. going from 110W to 115W on 28XX or even the 130W on 3808 is negligible. The key is the 3808 is 11 lbs. heavier, so the amp. is able to provide better dynamics at high volume, which becomes increasingly more apparent the higher the volume. Of course, it depends on the quality of one's speakers and the volume range used, as to whether one can hear an appreciable difference.
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post #33 of 5682 Old 08-19-2008, 05:40 PM
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The key is the 3808 is 11 lbs. heavier, so the amp. is able to provide better dynamics at high volume, which becomes increasingly more apparent the higher the volume.

Im confused, How does weight dictate performance?

I have a 100lb Emotiva amp and a 50lb sunfire amp.....which amp do you think has more power and which one would be a better amp.

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going from 110W to 115W on 28XX or even the 130W on 3808 is negligible

110 to 130Watts means nothing in terms of audible differences.

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post #34 of 5682 Old 08-19-2008, 05:41 PM
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Does J&R sell the 989 version?

Wouldnt it be a little less then the 2809 version?

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post #35 of 5682 Old 08-19-2008, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Does J&R sell the 989 version?

Wouldnt it be a little less then the 2809 version?

They do, but be prepared to wait. Eventually they will sell for less.

The three digit Denon models usually ship to major distributors or chain stores (BB & CC for example) after the four digit models have already shipped to regular authorized Denon dealers.

The 2809CI uses the better remote, and offers additional CI features, but both list at same $1199 price? The 989 looks better appearance wise then the previous 988 model IMHO.

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post #36 of 5682 Old 08-19-2008, 07:06 PM
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JohnAV--again thanks for the info, and the link.
I have a question about the upconversion/scaling.
I have the Oppo 983. So when I have that connected into this receiver, is there some setting that I turn on or off to make it so that the signal sent by the Oppo is not given any processing, and are there ways to add processing to the signal if I want to. This is one aspect of these receivers that offer upconversion, etc. etc. that I have never understood very well. Any help in understanding this would be greatly appreciated.
I really want to understand the various options one has regarding the various signals that you send via hdmi including my hd cablebox. I have 4 components to connect--cable box, HD DVD player, Panasonic bd-30 bd player, and the Oppo 983 all via hdmi.
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post #37 of 5682 Old 08-19-2008, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16x9enhanced View Post

JohnAV--again thanks for the info, and the link.
I have a question about the upconversion/scaling.
I have the Oppo 983. So when I have that connected into this receiver, is there some setting that I turn on or off to make it so that the signal sent by the Oppo is not given any processing, and are there ways to add processing to the signal if I want to. This is one aspect of these receivers that offer upconversion, etc. etc. that I have never understood very well. Any help in understanding this would be greatly appreciated.
I really want to understand the various options one has regarding the various signals that you send via hdmi including my hd cablebox. I have 4 components to connect--cable box, HD DVD player, Panasonic bd-30 bd player, and the Oppo 983 all via hdmi.

I'd like to know that answer as well. I'll have the Oppo 983H, a PS3 and a Dish 722VIP DVR all going to an AVR and then a Kuro. The only thing I might want the AVR to up-scale or up-convert might be the DVR or a VCR if I connect it. It's also possible the Kuro might up-scale better than the AVR.
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post #38 of 5682 Old 08-19-2008, 09:17 PM
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They do, but be prepared to wait. Eventually they will sell for less.

The three digit Denon models usually ship to major distributors or chain stores (BB & CC for example) after the four digit models have already shipped to regular authorized Denon dealers.

The 2809CI uses the better remote, and offers additional CI features, but both list at same $1199 price? The 989 looks better appearance wise then the previous 988 model IMHO.

Thanks!

As long as the 989 has serial I do not care about the remote. I have to set it all up with my home automation system.

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post #39 of 5682 Old 08-19-2008, 10:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16x9enhanced View Post

JohnAV--again thanks for the info, and the link.
I have a question about the upconversion/scaling.
I have the Oppo 983. So when I have that connected into this receiver, is there some setting that I turn on or off to make it so that the signal sent by the Oppo is not given any processing, and are there ways to add processing to the signal if I want to. This is one aspect of these receivers that offer upconversion, etc. etc. that I have never understood very well. Any help in understanding this would be greatly appreciated.
I really want to understand the various options one has regarding the various signals that you send via hdmi including my hd cablebox. I have 4 components to connect--cable box, HD DVD player, Panasonic bd-30 bd player, and the Oppo 983 all via hdmi.

See pages 9, 36 and 37 of manual. It is not possible to select HDMI input signals for conversion. Separately you can turn off conversion or/and i/p scaler for analog video input sources. (Component Video, S-Video, Video)

I also use a Oppo 983H and saw no additional artifacts or video noise when going HDMI -> HDMI through receiver at 1080P.

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Originally Posted by jlaavenger View Post

I'd like to know that answer as well. I'll have the Oppo 983H, a PS3 and a Dish 722VIP DVR all going to an AVR and then a Kuro. The only thing I might want the AVR to up-scale or up-convert might be the DVR or a VCR if I connect it. It's also possible the Kuro might up-scale better than the AVR.

You can constrain the conversion and i/p scaling to just those inputs. See the manual pages 36 and 37. The Kuro might do a better job, worth comparing the two.

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post #40 of 5682 Old 08-19-2008, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlaavenger View Post

I'd like to know that answer as well. I'll have the Oppo 983H, a PS3 and a Dish 722VIP DVR all going to an AVR and then a Kuro. The only thing I might want the AVR to up-scale or up-convert might be the DVR or a VCR if I connect it. It's also possible the Kuro might up-scale better than the AVR.

That's 110%!
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post #41 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 05:15 AM
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JohnAV--thanks again for the info.
sounds good.
so I'm assuming these new Denon receivers don't have any of the issues that have plagued some of the earlier 1.3 receivers--i.e. "bitstream bomb", not passing BTB or WTW, etc. etc.
I have been amazed how many issues have popped up, and like I said previously, have been trying to do all I can to buy an issue-free receiver.
Also, was wondering if one can connect another amp to boost the power and how that works. I have an ancient Yamaha integrated amp, and wasn't sure if that was possible. I'm still not 100% educated on the "pre/pro" terminology, although I'm thinking you can add a pre/pro to this receiver that could provide a power boost. Could certainly be mistaken, so that's why I'm asking. sorry for the ignorance. still trying to get up to speed regarding audio knowledge.
thanks in advance!
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post #42 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16x9enhanced View Post

JohnAV--thanks again for the info.
sounds good.
so I'm assuming these new Denon receivers don't have any of the issues that have plagued some of the earlier 1.3 receivers--i.e. "bitstream bomb", not passing BTB or WTW, etc. etc.
I have been amazed how many issues have popped up, and like I said previously, have been trying to do all I can to buy an issue-free receiver.
Also, was wondering if one can connect another amp to boost the power and how that works. I have an ancient Yamaha integrated amp, and wasn't sure if that was possible. I'm still not 100% educated on the "pre/pro" terminology, although I'm thinking you can add a pre/pro to this receiver that could provide a power boost. Could certainly be mistaken, so that's why I'm asking. sorry for the ignorance. still trying to get up to speed regarding audio knowledge.
thanks in advance!

The AVR-2809 can serve as a pre-amp so the output can drive one or more external power amplifiers connected to its 7.1 outputs, see page 17 of manual.

So far no one has reported that a 1909 or 2309 fails BTB or WTW, I assume the 2809 will pass also. This has been a issue with latest Yamaha and HK receivers.

The "bitstream bomb" was a DTS-HD Master Audio problem with some recent Onkyo, Integra, and Yamaha models. I believe Onkyo and Yamaha provided firmware updates for this issue. Marantz and Denon AVR's use a different IC chip for bitstream processing and do not have the problem.

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post #43 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 09:41 AM
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Just placed my order with crutchfield for the 2809 this morning hopefully I will have it on friday or monday at the latest. Just a quick question my TV doesn't have an HDMI input just DVI. I will be hooking up a Panasonic DMP-BD50K, a Time Warner 8300HD DVR and an Xbox 360 to the 2809 so I would be using just the one cable to the TV. Will using an HDMI to DVI cable from the 2809 to the TV affect anything? What will become limited if anything?

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post #44 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

Thanks, but what about when going to commercials or explosion sceens in movies. I am constantly grabbing the remote before I hear TURN IT DOWN. :-)

Regarding three different levels of Dynamic Volume and EQ: The Day mode sounded almost identical to Dynamic Volume OFF with Dynamic EQ ON. But explosions were slightly reduced. Evening mode the explosions were less noisy. Night mode the explosions were barely louder then a actors voice, but yet still retained the correct tonal balance of sounds.

The DYN VOL button on the receiver will cycle through Dynamic EQ/Vol ON = green light, Dynamic EQ = red light, Dynamic EQ/Vol OFF = no light

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post #45 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 10:24 AM
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Just placed my order with crutchfield for the 2809 this morning

Good deal?

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post #46 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 10:27 AM
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Good deal?

Just free shipping and the usual 6 months no payments no interest when you use or sign up for the Sony Card. Still the same price as I've seen most other places.

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post #47 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by cstmstyle View Post

Just placed my order with crutchfield for the 2809 this morning hopefully I will have it on friday or monday at the latest. Just a quick question my TV doesn't have an HDMI input just DVI. I will be hooking up a Panasonic DMP-BD50K, a Time Warner 8300HD DVR and an Xbox 360 to the 2809 so I would be using just the one cable to the TV. Will using an HDMI to DVI cable from the 2809 to the TV affect anything? What will become limited if anything?

There are occasionally issues that pop up with DVI-HDMI connections, but chances are you'll be OK.

You're going to need to get your HDMI setup squared away, set output to "RGB" instead of "YCbCr" and you may have to twiddle with the RGB range (ENHANCED vs. NORMAL) on both the Denon and your devices to get everything squared away. Occasionally TVs/AVRs/sources don't play nice and you might have an issue where the TV is expecting video levels and the sources is outputting computer levels or whatever.

You just want to make sure everything is your video chain is consistent, since you'll only be running one cable to the TV.

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post #48 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

There are occasionally issues that pop up with DVI-HDMI connections, but chances are you'll be OK.

You're going to need to get your HDMI setup squared away, set output to "RGB" instead of "YCbCr" and you may have to twiddle with the RGB range (ENHANCED vs. NORMAL) on both the Denon and your devices to get everything squared away. Occasionally TVs/AVRs/sources don't play nice and you might have an issue where the TV is expecting video levels and the sources is outputting computer levels or whatever.

You just want to make sure everything is your video chain is consistent, since you'll only be running one cable to the TV.


Thanks for the reply. I plan to upgrade the TV to a Samsung series 9 LCD or whatever comes out after that sometime next year just want to make sure I could still enjoy most everything I have now.

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post #49 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 11:28 AM
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2809 is showing up as in-stock at J&R. Anybody get a shipping notice yet?
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post #50 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by javajaws View Post

2809 is showing up as in-stock at J&R. Anybody get a shipping notice yet?

I got a shipping confirmation from my crutchfield order an hour ago. UPS site hasn't updated with the ETA yet but anyways J&R should be shipping them out today also if they have them on the shelf.

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post #51 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 12:31 PM
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Finally I got word from my local hifi asylum that the 09 series is just around the corner. I still can't decide between the 2309 and 2809... But since the price difference is just over $200, I'm leaning towards the 2809. (Price here in Norway is $1450. Ouch!)

Looking forward to replacing my ole' Yamaha 775. :-) About time, me thinks! HDMI switching in my basement is waaay overdue!

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post #52 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Im confused, How does weight dictate performance?

I should have said, I read that at AVS, as well. IIRC, it meant weight difference in AVRs within the same brand, meant the PSU was heavier. I am going by what I can recall, from several years ago.

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Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

The wattage specs. going from 110W to 115W on 28XX or even the 130W on 3808 is negligible.

Quote:


110 to 130Watts means nothing in terms of audible differences.

Which is what I said above.

Anyway, key was about dynamics. The 'Denon 2809CI vs 3808CI differences?' thread is really the place to discuss this. There, more knowledgeable people have elucidated why the 3808 should sound better, others may not have the speakers or use the volume level to notice or care, and others may disagree.
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post #53 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 12:43 PM
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QZ1, I understand now...

Anyways, I became trigger happy this afternoon and ordered the 2809 from J&R. It should arrive by next Tuesday!

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post #54 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by T2k View Post

That's 110%!

Am I reading you right that the kuro up-scales better than the 2809? If so I'd simply turn off up-scaling through the AVR right? I plan on connecting everything via HDMI except of course the VCR.
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post #55 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jlaavenger View Post

Am I reading you right that the kuro up-scales better than the 2809? If so I'd simply turn off up-scaling through the AVR right? I plan on connecting everything via HDMI except of course the VCR.

Correct, I'm pretty confident Kuro's scaler is better than any of these low-end Faroudja-based AVRs but you be the judge - and please, let me know if I was right...
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post #56 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

I should have said, I read that at AVS, as well. IIRC, it meant weight difference in AVRs within the same brand, meant the PSU was heavier. I am going by what I can recall, from several years ago.

Anyway, key was about dynamics. The 'Denon 2809CI vs 3808CI differences?' thread is really the place to discuss this. There, more knowledgeable people have elucidated why the 3808 should sound better, others may not have the speakers or use the volume level to notice or care, and others may disagree.

Well said.
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post #57 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

QZ1, I understand now...

Anyways, I became trigger happy this afternoon and ordered the 2809 from J&R. It should arrive by next Tuesday!

JR has them now, so check your tracking #. Perhaps you'll get lucky and receive the AVR-2809 earlier.

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post #58 of 5682 Old 08-20-2008, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilsp View Post

Finally I got word from my local hifi asylum that the 09 series is just around the corner. I still can't decide between the 2309 and 2809... But since the price difference is just over $200, I'm leaning towards the 2809. (Price here in Norway is $1450. Ouch!)

Looking forward to replacing my ole' Yamaha 775. :-) About time, me thinks! HDMI switching in my basement is waaay overdue!

Gee no discounts.

Good luck with your decision......listen to a 2308 versus a 2808 at a store to get a idea how the 2809 will sound.

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post #59 of 5682 Old 08-21-2008, 07:18 AM
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How is the upconversion? Any one heard the difference between the 3808 and the 2809? Looks like you can pick up the 3808 for less at dakmart.
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post #60 of 5682 Old 08-21-2008, 07:29 AM
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Quote:


JR has them now, so check your tracking #. Perhaps you'll get lucky and receive the AVR-2809 earlier.


Yep, but it will not be shipped till today and its 3-4 days to Florida. I wouldnt get to it this weekend anyways. I have a list of 50 different things to do still in my new HT room including another Sealed sub build!

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