"Official" Denon AVR 2809CI/989 Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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Old 11-10-2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoyalawya View Post

IIRC, the A20 is incapable of sending bitstream audio over HDMI connection.

oh, that sucks!! i guess Toslink cable can't carry Dolby True HD signals. When the hell is the Oppo Blu-Ray Player coming out.
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Old 11-10-2008, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by nin1974 View Post

oh, that sucks!! i guess Toslink cable can't carry Dolby True HD signals.

I have an A20 and confirm that there is no bitstreaming of high-res audio.

However, it doesn't suck! It sounds EXACTLY the same when the receiver decodes the hi-res audio to multichannel PCM, so as long as you make sure you select the TrueHD track on your A20 and set the HDMI audio output to AUTO, when the receiver lights up MULTI CH IN that means you are getting full lossless trueHD! Fret not...

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Old 11-10-2008, 01:12 PM
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It appears to have been the cable. true-hd and dts-ma is now processing at the amp! huah!!!

I do not condone what i do, but i will not deny myself the pleasure!
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blkicevic View Post

It appears to have been the cable. true-hd and dts-ma is now processing at the amp! huah!!!

Hooray!

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Old 11-10-2008, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nin1974 View Post

oh, that sucks!! i guess Toslink cable can't carry Dolby True HD signals. When the hell is the Oppo Blu-Ray Player coming out.

Oppo staff have only said in the near future, no release details announced yet.

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Old 11-10-2008, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSGUSA View Post

I have a feeling Denon may include the "pretty" OSD of the 38xx on the 2810 model. If they did, would it be possible/simple for Denon to issue a firmware update to add the better OSD on our 2809ci? Well, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Depends on whether Denon has crippled the video upconversion so not to compete with the older 3808. Right now there is no HDMI to HDMI conversion.

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Old 11-10-2008, 04:18 PM
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Hello guys,
Ive managed to buy a 2809..
So far most works as expected, however i cannot get the subwoofer to output anything when using ext.in.

Furthermore it seems all dsp effects cannot be applied to the ext.inputs.
I doubt however that its impossible to use the subwoofer ?!

Tried setting subwoofer on for 2channel sound, but wont help using the ext.in.
Havent been able to find any options for ext.in anywayz :S

Digitally everything works though.. but i really need the sub when using analog aswell..

/edit:
Mhh should i have to use the analogue subwoofer input to get it to work?! Why cant it just apply xover on the 4 channels that are connected mhh
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Old 11-10-2008, 05:39 PM
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the multichannel analog inputs (ext.in) are just a straight passthrough to the amps, the Denon cannot do ANY processing (bass management, tone control, DSP, etc) to the ext.in inputs. all of the processing, bass mgmt, etc. has to be done in the source, as they never get digitized and stay completely in the analog domain.

the only way the sub will get sound is if there is an analog cable connect to the ".1" channel (the subwoofer input) of the multichannel ins.

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Old 11-11-2008, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I have an A20 and confirm that there is no bitstreaming of high-res audio.

However, it doesn't suck! It sounds EXACTLY the same when the receiver decodes the hi-res audio to multichannel PCM, so as long as you make sure you select the TrueHD track on your A20 and set the HDMI audio output to AUTO, when the receiver lights up MULTI CH IN that means you are getting full lossless trueHD! Fret not...

Thanks Batpig! Well i just ordered a Panasonic BD55 through the Amazon deal. Are you saying i won't hear a difference when i use Dolby TrueHD through the BD55 than when i used my Toshiba A20??? so sad
Also which should i use to decode the TrueHD?
Which one has the better "upconvert chip", Faroudja DCDi video processing or BD55's Unipher?
BTW, using a Panasonic 50pz700U
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nin1974 View Post

Thanks Batpig! Well i just ordered a Panasonic BD55 through the Amazon deal. Are you saying i won't hear a difference when i use Dolby TrueHD through the BD55 than when i used my Toshiba A20??? so sad
Also which should i use to decode the TrueHD?
Which one has the better "upconvert chip", Faroudja DCDi video processing or BD55's Unipher?
BTW, using a Panasonic 50pz700U

Sound-wise, there will not be a difference if the tracks on the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are the same. That's what lossless is about. It is similar to zipping and unzipping a file. Does not matter where you unzip it, in the receiver or in the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player, the end result is the same.

I do not know the answer to the upconverting part of your question.
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:21 AM
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Hi all!....
Have been lurking here since last week - I Had to replace my aging RCA theatreinabox (was making annoying bup bup sounds til it warmed up) & I decided to treat myself by starting to build a decent system. Settled on the 889, after doing pricing/listening & looking thru the AVS forums. Got it for $699 CAN @ BB in Winnipeg, & plan on getting a Klipsch 200 watt SUB this week. Am a little overwhelmed with some of the jargon & setup, but slowly but surely with the help of the FAQs & postings,after I`m commin' along....
So I have to ask....do any of you who picked up the 889 @ CC for $499 , feel guilty about forcing them into bankruptcy? I`m sure I'll have some real questions soon....ttyl
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Old 11-11-2008, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siddartha View Post

Hi all!....
Have been lurking here since last week - I Had to replace my aging RCA theatreinabox (was making annoying bup bup sounds til it warmed up) & I decided to treat myself by starting to build a decent system. Settled on the 889, after doing pricing/listening & looking thru the AVS forums. Got it for $699 CAN @ BB in Winnipeg, & plan on getting a Klipsch 200 watt SUB this week. Am a little overwhelmed with some of the jargon & setup, but slowly but surely with the help of the FAQs & postings,after I`m commin' along....
So I have to ask....do any of you who picked up the 889 @ CC for $499 , feel guilty about forcing them into bankruptcy? I`m sure I'll have some real questions soon....ttyl

Your discussing a 889, this is the AVR-2809/989 discussion thread.

You will want to repost this message in the correct AVR-2309/889 thread to get other opinions concerning your model.

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Old 11-11-2008, 10:31 AM
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Also, Siddartha, I suggest you take some time to read the AVR FAQ at the top of this forum, as it gives you a good foundation for all of the new modern jargon and technologies in AV receivers:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=968859

Then, go read the first post of the 1909/789 thread, as there is an extensive FAQ and setup help that is also applicable to the 889/2309:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1050097

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Old 11-11-2008, 10:52 AM
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Does anyone have a list of all available hex code IR commands that they could post?
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the multichannel analog inputs (ext.in) are just a straight passthrough to the amps, the Denon cannot do ANY processing (bass management, tone control, DSP, etc) to the ext.in inputs. all of the processing, bass mgmt, etc. has to be done in the source, as they never get digitized and stay completely in the analog domain.

the only way the sub will get sound is if there is an analog cable connect to the ".1" channel (the subwoofer input) of the multichannel ins.

Yes seems ive really managed to look over this "feature".
So basically you have ZERO control in fixing the sound when using analogue inputs. No audyssey, no crossovers, hell not even simple tone control.
What were they thinking??

At the moment im not that impressed with the amp i must say.
Even when using digital spdif, it sounds quite dull with a hint of "fake" surroundness to it (even when using pure mode) and at times a monotone feel to it. Its TOTALLY different to any amp ive ever heard, that includes 30 year old marantz, luxman and a newer yamaha. They at least all sounded alike, with the yamaha being the brightest.

I'll see if i can enable audyssey tomorrow, hopefully that will fix the sound.

Edit: I also feel like im getting a cold, maybe thats why it sounds dull, will see..
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by [unique] View Post

So basically you have ZERO control in fixing the sound when using analogue inputs. No audyssey, no crossovers, hell not even simple tone control.
What were they thinking??

if by "they" you mean every single receiver manufacturer out there..... that is the way it operates for almost any receiver from any brand, except for really high-end models that have a set of A/D converters on their multichannel inputs. it's pretty much the way it has always worked in receivers for 10+ years since "dolby digital ready" receivers started appearing (so you could have an external decoder).

this isn't a failure of the manufacturer, it's you not understanding their function. the whole point of multichannel analog inputs is for when you have an external source which is decoding some multichannel format that your receiver can't handle -- it converts your receiver into just an amplifier, and the external source does all of the decoding, processing, bass managment, etc. It's intended so that the Denon essentially just becomes a multichannel amplifier, and the external source (like an SACD player) becomes the pre-amp/processor. The only control that affects the multichannel analog inputs is the EXT IN SUBWOOFER level, which is intended to allow you to properly boost the LFE channel.

if you want the receiver to help you with multichannel processing you need a digital connection.

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Old 11-11-2008, 12:31 PM
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has anyone ever done a firmware update on a denon reciever? quick story: i was just on the phone with denon customer service/tech support, nothing wrong, just asking some curious questions. I asked about the current firmware version and if a new version becomes available would i be contacted or just have to keep visiting the denon site? I also wanted find out where to get the software for future updates. the reply i recieved was denon does not support or issue updates to consumers. updates are sent to authorized support locations and i would have to bring the amp in or send it to them. can anyone confirm that this is a true policy?
i got this from there website "Welcome to the Denon Electronics U.S.A. Updates and Upgrades page. Here you will find various user updates or upgrades for many Denon products. Most updates have been designed so that you can update your equipment at home using an IBM compatible PC eliminating the need of removing it from your system and sending it back to factory service. "

I do not condone what i do, but i will not deny myself the pleasure!
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:39 PM
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I'm the newest member of this club, just picked up a new 2809CI today "upgrading" from my 3806. Technology...gotta love it!
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foulmouthedleon View Post

I'm the newest member of this club, just picked up a new 2809CI today "upgrading" from my 3806. Technology...gotta love it!

lol "upgrading" from an older but higher level model! Technology is great isn't it!

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Old 11-11-2008, 03:42 PM
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So i tried the video section of the amp.
Connected my pc using a dvi->hdmi cable, and cant get 1080 24p to work.
According to my ati 4870 gfx card the amplifier only supports 50 and 60 hz at 1080p, hence i cant select 24p.

If i check hdmi status info in the amp, it shows that my monitor supports 24p, so why the hell cant i send a 24p signal towards the amp

Any insight, cuz the manual isnt giving any :/ And one of the reasons i bought this amp is becuase it supposedly supports hdmi 1.3a with 24p...

Edit: Mmh i forced it in catalyst driver and it seems to work (need some more testing to see if its really 24p though), seems the amp doesnt even relay the supported resolutions of the tv.. weird.
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkicevic View Post

has anyone ever done a firmware update on a denon reciever? quick story: i was just on the phone with denon customer service/tech support, nothing wrong, just asking some curious questions. I asked about the current firmware version and if a new version becomes available would i be contacted or just have to keep visiting the denon site? I also wanted find out where to get the software for future updates. the reply i recieved was denon does not support or issue updates to consumers. updates are sent to authorized support locations and i would have to bring the amp in or send it to them. can anyone confirm that this is a true policy?
i got this from there website "Welcome to the Denon Electronics U.S.A. Updates and Upgrades page. Here you will find various user updates or upgrades for many Denon products. Most updates have been designed so that you can update your equipment at home using an IBM compatible PC eliminating the need of removing it from your system and sending it back to factory service. "

There was a update that was applied to early AVR-2808 production as I recall from DenonJeff that users could apply, but unless something happens with your AVR-2809 your not going to be performing a firmware update except to address a rare service issue at this time.

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Old 11-12-2008, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nin1974 View Post

Which one has the better "upconvert chip", Faroudja DCDi video processing or BD55's Unipher?
BTW, using a Panasonic 50pz700U

Can't answer this directly, however, I can tell you that the Faroudja chip is no better than the chip in my DirecTV HR20-100 HD DVR so I have the HDMI cable going to my Panny 50PZ750U and an optical to the Denon. Never bothered to compare the Faroudja against the PS3 as viewing upscaled DVDs on the PS3 is simply phenominal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkicevic View Post

has anyone ever done a firmware update on a denon reciever?

I have performed an update (2808) via a PC by DenonJeff this past Feb, although I'm guessing it was just a test case (as it was only supplied to a few individuals AFAIK) as only the 3808 models and higher are "designed" (via ethernet connection) to receive firmware updates from the Denon website. The "update via IBM PC" comment on the website most likely applies to updating the Denon DVD players. I'm in the process of testing the system again, to see if DenonJeff will issue an update to solve the DTS MA 7.1 on a 5.1 setup issue via a PC firmware update for the 2808 as it was solved via firmware update on the 3808 this past August. If he agrees, perhaps it will lay the path for updates that come up with the 2809/989 as well.

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Old 11-12-2008, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebarchetta View Post

2. I know this has been mentioned, but is anyone having trouble with the 2809 and the Sony XBR tv's, or with the new w/z Bravia models. The "engine" in the new XBR6 is really more closely related to the Bravia than the old XBR3/4. I know this is more of an issue with the 3808. Additionally, I realize this may be more of an HDMI issue than any real "issue" with the 2809/3808 or the Sony TV's. I'm really just trying to avoid a hassle later.

So can anyone answer this? I'm about to get the 2809 to replace my dead 2800. The last thing I want do are more HDMI headaches -- I had to return a Samsung LCD last year that had massive HDMI bugs.

So any and all info on whether the 2809 avoids the 3808 associated HDMI issues would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
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Old 11-12-2008, 04:23 PM
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First audyssey results are mediocre-bad.

Attach crappy speakers to it, and you'll see quite some improvement.
Attach (half) decent speakers to it, and it totally kills any imaging/soundstage/ambience, and replaces it with a "claustophobic" dull sound, with actually too much bass and too less treble in it. (in flat setting, audyssey setting doesnt have any highs imo )
I mean my focal 816 aint the most high end pieces available, but as far as i can judge now they sounded a lot better on a:
- marantz 2220
- luxman l410
- old onkyo integra 2 channel amp
- yamaha el'cheapo surround amp which is a bit bright, but overal best

I actually think the same applies to movies but i havent had time to check that extensively.
I guess i will redo the calibration once again tomorrow (yes im using a tripod, and yes ive read the audyssey thread).

All in all my change from 10+ year old equipment to this new one hasnt been smooth.

Hope ill get to appreciate the "denon" sound, if not ill have to see to sell this expensive beast to a more happy owner. Which is sad cuz the thing does look sexy
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Old 11-12-2008, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [unique] View Post

First audyssey results are mediocre-bad.

Attach crappy speakers to it, and you'll see quite some improvement.
Attach (half) decent speakers to it, and it totally kills any imaging/soundstage/ambience, and replaces it with a "claustophobic" dull sound, with actually too much bass and too less treble in it. (in flat setting, audyssey setting doesnt have any highs imo )
I mean my focal 816 aint the most high end pieces available, but as far as i can judge now they sounded a lot better on a:
- marantz 2220
- luxman l410
- old onkyo integra 2 channel amp
- yamaha el'cheapo surround amp which is a bit bright, but overal best

I actually think the same applies to movies but i havent had time to check that extensively.
I guess i will redo the calibration once again tomorrow (yes im using a tripod, and yes ive read the audyssey thread).

All in all my change from 10+ year old equipment to this new one hasnt been smooth.

Hope ill get to appreciate the "denon" sound, if not ill have to see to sell this expensive beast to a more happy owner. Which is sad cuz the thing does look sexy

Did you apply Dynamic EQ (red light)? I had Dynamic EQ on at first and found that there was way too much bass.
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Old 11-12-2008, 05:01 PM
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No i did not, and yes i share your opinion.
The only times i put a lower volume is at evenings/nights, and then dynamic eq worsens it for the neighbours (sub is way too hot)...
Seems to limit the mayor volume spikes though, i guess its a tradeoff between neighbours sleep or listening pleasure
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Old 11-13-2008, 12:24 PM
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That's good to hear. I have an 2309 ordered and last minute before the item shipped I upgraded to the 2809.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSGUSA View Post

Traded in my 2309CI for a 2809CI hoping that there would be a noticable difference.

Listening to regular TV was better, but not resoundingly so, with DVDs there was more improvement - better dynamically and clearer vocals. While I was trying to decide if it was really worth upgrading I tried several music CDs. It sounded much better than the 2309, in fact the difference was night and day. Whatever the AL24 and Burr-Brown processing is doing, it works. I'm very happy with my 2809CI. The next challenge - getting comfortable with this new "modern" remote.

I have noticed, both models have heavy bass, not distorted, just boomy. It seems as though reducing the bass in the "tone" settings doesn't make much difference when using the Dynamic EQ (XT). The only thing that seems to tame the bass is to use the Audyssey's "Evening" setting (not the night mode).

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Old 11-13-2008, 12:59 PM
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Im starting to sound like a ranter.. but i redone the audyssey calibration 3x.
First result using 6 positions sounded very awfull. For a test i set xover to 40 hz before starting this one. Obviously it couldn't manage the bass from my mains at all, it killed any bass - midbass in order to disable a few room peaks. The correction seemed very off and overdone..

Second measurement using 80 hz xover and exactly the same measurement positions, was semi awfull. This time it managed to straighten some of the bass area, but ****ed up my mids totally. On top of that it had the volumes totally wrong. (3 db difference between L and R, even though they are only 20 cm different in distance to listening spot.)

Third measurement using 80xover and 3 positions seems best.
This time it at least got the volumes right, and the sub was eq'ed ok.
However its still impossible listening any music with it, sounds like i downgraded my speakers to ones from the supermarket.
Seriously, how can people like this fake dry emotionless surround sound??
To me it sounds like it exaggerates all imaging, making "mono" tones (such as voices) even more mono, and stereo tones even more stereo. In the process killing all the subtleties in the music
Since it matched the phase directly on the listening spot, you even get a headache from it, since it feels like the sound is in your head instead of on a stage.
I tried some chesky demo disks, for imaging, depth, and even height (!).
Using the old analogue receivers you could clearly hear all detail and acoustics and even the height test seemed to work.
With this denon and audyssey .. i dont get any feel of the room, the acoustics or the ambience.. Without audyssey its a lot better, but the bass/midbass is too much then. (same problem i had with old amps.. reason i bought this thing in the first place, to tame the 50-60 hz range..)
Maybe i can set xover to 100 hz, and only apply audyssey on the sub. But i got a crappy BK xls200 sub, so that wont sound that great either im guessing, plus it will be mono (yes you CAN hear imaging in 60-100 hz.., at least i do)

Got the thing hooked up using optical cables, and playing flac files.
Will probably try to connect some analogue equipment and see if that helps any.. But i seriously doubt it, plus the fact that i have zero tone control when using analogue. (normally i dont need any, but with this receiver i think i might)..
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Old 11-13-2008, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [unique] View Post

Im starting to sound like a ranter.. but i redone the audyssey calibration 3x.
First result using 6 positions sounded very awfull. For a test i set xover to 40 hz before starting this one. Obviously it couldn't manage the bass from my mains at all, it killed any bass - midbass in order to disable a few room peaks. The correction seemed very off and overdone..

I would check these links first for suggestions against Audyssey setup issues:

Audyssey Setup – One Step at a Time

Audyssey FAQ

Oppo Beta Group
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:24 AM
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Has anyone experience this?
Hooked my new Panasonic BD55 BR Player to my 2809ci. Played 300 and the DD TrueHd light comes on. BUT on Batman Begins, when i switch on TrueHD, no light on the 2809?!!
Any suggestions?
Are some BR movies false advertising TrueHD but not delivering?
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