"Official" Denon AVR 2809CI/989 Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 5676 Old 11-21-2008, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Have you confirmed that the HDMI Audio Out is set to AMP and not TV? If so, no reason for TV to be on to hear music through your surround system speakers.

Yes, it is set to AMP which is why I am confused. With this set to AMP I turn off the set and the music source input displayed on the left side of the receiver's screen will blink on/off along with the music.

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post #722 of 5676 Old 11-21-2008, 08:05 PM
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[list][*]Different remotes - the 2809 comes with two remotes and the main one looks a lot better than the remote for the 989

i'ld like to see the remote for the 989. i have the 2809 and while its remote "looks" nice...it sucks far worse than the one that came with my old 2805.
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post #723 of 5676 Old 11-21-2008, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armstrr View Post

[list][*]Different remotes - the 2809 comes with two remotes and the main one looks a lot better than the remote for the 989

i'ld like to see the remote for the 989. i have the 2809 and while its remote "looks" nice...it sucks far worse than the one that came with my old 2805.

I think there is an image of the remote in the 1st posting at the start of the thread to the right of the image of the 989. No idea if it is any better or not. It looks pretty cheap. But I am not planning on using it anyways.
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post #724 of 5676 Old 11-21-2008, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armstrr View Post

[list][*]Different remotes - the 2809 comes with two remotes and the main one looks a lot better than the remote for the 989

i'ld like to see the remote for the 989. i have the 2809 and while its remote "looks" nice...it sucks far worse than the one that came with my old 2805.

Check the first post, and you see the remote for the 989.

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post #725 of 5676 Old 11-22-2008, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unorthodoxx View Post

How do I play a music source without having the TV on? I play music through my SD DVD and PS3 but rather not have my DLP on at that time. When I turn of the set the music signal turns off and on.

The PS3 is connected via HDMI and the SD DVD is connected through toslink.

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Originally Posted by unorthodoxx View Post

Yes, it is set to AMP which is why I am confused. With this set to AMP I turn off the set and the music source input displayed on the left side of the receiver's screen will blink on/off along with the music.

You're going to have to elaborate a bit on your issue here. When you say the music signal turns off and on, do you mean it "cycles" off then on and then off, etc? Do you mean it turns off and stays off?

Here's what I experience ... when I am listening to a music CD on the PS3 connected to the AVR via HDMI and have the TV on (also connected via HDMI) to view the new video displays that are displayed while the CD is playing and I then turn the TV off, the audio drops out for 3-4 seconds (most likely HDMI handshaking issues), but then the audio returns and continues just as before without interruption.

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post #726 of 5676 Old 11-22-2008, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armstrr View Post

[list][*]Different remotes - the 2809 comes with two remotes and the main one looks a lot better than the remote for the 989

i'ld like to see the remote for the 989. i have the 2809 and while its remote "looks" nice...it sucks far worse than the one that came with my old 2805.

What specifically sucks about it? The 2809 remote is more advanced than the 989 remote, one of the differences between the two models. If you're not using a Harmony remote, it offers (3) programmable Call features which makes turning multiple components on and off and switching inputs much easier ..... all at the push of 1 button.

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post #727 of 5676 Old 11-22-2008, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

What specifically sucks about it? The 2809 remote is more advanced than the 989 remote, one of the differences between the two models. If you're not using a Harmony remote, it offers (3) programmable Call features which makes turning multiple components on and off and switching inputs much easier ..... all at the push of 1 button.

Some people are never satisfied.

I definitely prefer the more advanced 2809 touch remote then the two sided 989 remote.

BTW if looking for a 989 or 889, Fry's has a big sale on them with $300 off, and $200 off respectively.

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post #728 of 5676 Old 11-22-2008, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Some people are never satisfied.

I definitely prefer the more advanced 2809 touch remote then the two sided 989 remote.

BTW if looking for a 989 or 889, Fry's has a big sale on them with $300 off, and $200 off respectively.

Douh! I didn't think to check out Fry's. Last night, I just ordered the 989 from Amazon for $200 off.

Thanks anyways.
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post #729 of 5676 Old 11-22-2008, 02:16 PM
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Hi guys. Well I couldn't pass up that live.com deal, ended up 1/2 off MSRP on a 2809! This is a great move up & I've sold my 988 already. I'm enjoying the fancier remote and the Dyn EQ especially.

Thanks to all, especially batpig, for the help with setup etc on the 988. That was indeed a steep learning curve & lots of reading of the threads & that damn manual. So anyway the 2809 was much easier to get up and running.

I followed the Audyssey thread instructions (as I had done on the 988 with great results). The 2809 sounds as good (and in fact better at lower levels with Dyn EQ) as the 988. My question has to do with the 2809 Audyssey settings for my Polks:

Fronts=-6, C=-6.5, SW=-7.5, surrounds=-2

Is it odd that these are all negs? Unfortunately I can't recall the figures for the 988. I noticed a little furnace blower noise on & off during the autosetup. Are these results OK or should I redo it, with furnace off, or with the sub turned up a little?

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post #730 of 5676 Old 11-22-2008, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hi guys. Well I couldn't pass up that live.com deal, ended up 1/2 off MSRP on a 2809! This is a great move up & I've sold my 988 already. I'm enjoying the fancier remote and the Dyn EQ especially.

I don't know about getting one for $600 (that's 1/2 off) but prices at authorized dealers just dropped today. J&R is advertising $999, 6th Ave quoted $960 and after a call to Expo Electronics and got it down to $900 with free shipping.

Just thought people would like to know who are on the fence. Remember, these prices are quoted from an authorized dealer, there were other, cheaper online prices but buy at your own risk.
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post #731 of 5676 Old 11-22-2008, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mjw930 View Post

I don't know about getting one for $600 (that's 1/2 off) but prices at authorized dealers just dropped today. J&R is advertising $999, 6th Ave quoted $960 and after a call to Expo Electronics and got it down to $900 with free shipping.

Just thought people would like to know who are on the fence. Remember, these prices are quoted from an authorized dealer, there were other, cheaper online prices but buy at your own risk.

That's right. I didn't want to push thread etiquette on mentioning pricing (799-200, shipped UPS gnd free in big dbl carton with HDMI cable bonus). Arrived quickly and seems perfect. I'm taking a chance but figure if it works for the 7 day return week it'll likely be fine for years. I believe someone mentioned that if one of the authorized sources would offer that price buy-it-now on ebay, that would be even better.

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post #732 of 5676 Old 11-22-2008, 04:36 PM
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Did my first full Audyssey calibration today and it seems to have gone pretty well. I'm happy with the sound, but the subwoofer is too loud for my apartment situation...which leads to my question:

In order to manually adjust the sub volume, I am going here:

Menu: Manual Setup: Speaker Setup: Channel Level: Test Tone Start

And turning down the subwoofer to a non-landlord-wrath-inducing level.

Seems sensible. But, once I've done that, I have no idea how to apply/use these manual settings. At first, I assumed I would click the EQ button on the remote until I got to "MEQ XT: Manual". However, Denon's confusing documentation states that the manual option will: Apply frequency response set with "Manual EQ."

I have no idea what that means.

If EQ is set to "MEQ XT: Audyssey", does the receiver automatically favor and use any manual adjustments I've made? If so, how do I switch back to Audyssey's original recommended settings? Go back and manually re-enter them?

This is driving me nuts, any help will be greatly appreciated. Denon seriously needs to hire some usability experts and professional technical writers for their interfaces and manuals respectively.
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post #733 of 5676 Old 11-23-2008, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

I followed the Audyssey thread instructions (as I had done on the 988 with great results). The 2809 sounds as good (and in fact better at lower levels with Dyn EQ) as the 988. My question has to do with the 2809 Audyssey settings for my Polks:

Fronts=-6, C=-6.5, SW=-7.5, surrounds=-2

Is it odd that these are all negs? Unfortunately I can't recall the figures for the 988.

I sorta felt my own question might fit the Audyssey thread better so I a did more homework and read more recent postings there. There I found an answer to a very similar question posed on a Denon 4308 with DynVol update, with similar all neg readings between -8 and -10:

"Because MultEQ sets the level for Dynamic EQ so that you have reference playback level with the volume control at 0. The level for each speaker and subwoofer is set to 75 dB SPL at the listening position when measuring with the internal test noise."

So apparently the 2809 Audyssey XT, with the newer Dyn EQ features, is designed to yield a different reference than the older 988's Audyssey XT "so that you can listen to the mix balanced as it was intended at reference level." Interesting...

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post #734 of 5676 Old 11-23-2008, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lem0nayde View Post

In order to manually adjust the sub volume, I am going here:

Menu: Manual Setup: Speaker Setup: Channel Level: Test Tone Start

And turning down the subwoofer to a non-landlord-wrath-inducing level.

Seems sensible. But, once I've done that, I have no idea how to apply/use these manual settings.

you don't need to do anything to "apply" them, when you change anything in manual setup (like channel levels, speaker size, crosover freq., etc) it will override what Audyssey has selected. so all you do is turn on audyssey (put the Room EQ to "audyssey") and enjoy.

the manual EQ is an alternative to Audyssey, the channel level adjustments are not an EQ at all, just a level balancing system which you can then lay an EQ (audyssey or your own manual one) on top off.

I do the same thing because I find Audyssey sets my sub too hot as well, I just go into the manual setup, run the test tones, and dial down the sub 2-3 dB. I also bump up the center channel by 1 dB. again, this just overrides what Audyssey has measured, but doesn't prevent you from then using Audyssey's EQ filters.

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post #735 of 5676 Old 11-23-2008, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

I sorta felt my own question might fit the Audyssey thread better so I a did more homework and read more recent postings there. There I found an answer to a very similar question posed on a Denon 4308 with DynVol update, with similar all neg readings between -8 and -10:

"Because MultEQ sets the level for Dynamic EQ so that you have reference playback level with the volume control at 0. The level for each speaker and subwoofer is set to 75 dB SPL at the listening position when measuring with the internal test noise."

interesting tidbit there, good find.

definitely elaborate more on 988 vs 989 as you get to know your new receiver, how much of an improvement do you find the 989 to be? do they sound pretty much identical (as they should) when you crank the volume? how much improvement do you find from the Dynamic Audyssey features?

you are in a somewhat unique position as someone who has owned both 988 and then just replaced with 989, so I'm sure the comparisons would be useful to those who are considering the new models vs. saving some money on the x08 models...

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post #736 of 5676 Old 11-23-2008, 07:53 PM
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I re-did Audyssey last night when i put in some new surrounds...well it sounds ALOT better now. Bass is still to "hott" but other than that after taking it down a few notches everything is just spot on. Im pretty happy.


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post #737 of 5676 Old 11-23-2008, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

interesting tidbit...
how much of an improvement do you find the 989 to be? do they sound pretty much identical (as they should) when you crank the volume? how much improvement do you find from the Dynamic Audyssey features? You are in a somewhat unique position as someone who has owned both 988 and then just replaced with 989...the comparisons would be useful to those who are considering the new models vs. saving some money on the x08 models...

Thought you'd never ask....LOL....I have just replaced a Denon 988 (Audyssey XT) with a 2809ci (Audyssey XT with DynEQ). I was getting exc SQ from the 988. The power and clarity of the 988 made my 7 yr old Polks come alive, especially the surrounds, which were almost never heard from with my old Sony receiver. I have an acoustically challenged 16' X 22' room (cathedral ceiling & lots of bare windows thanks to wife's Feng Shui) but Audyssey fixed me right up- I wouldn't buy another AVR without it!!

To digress slightly, I then got caught up in the whole "1909vs 988" issue. So, many nights were spent on tweaking and comparing over the next few weeks. I could not get the 789 to sound nearly as good at full listening levels-no surprise. Not bad SQ, mind you, but I'm one for clarity and detail. I wasn't so impressed with the DynEQ (and really didn't care for DV) to offset the better SQ of the 988 at my "listenin and lovin it" levels so I took the 789 back.

But I kept hearing how much people love the new Audyssey features. When I found a deal on the 2809 I couldn't pass it up (thanks again to batpig and others). So here's a report on my experience so far:

1. I hear no acoustic difference at the loudest levels from the 988, as expected. The 2809 sounds fabulous!

2. With DV off, as I turn the volume down the DynEQ kicks in pretty rapidly (by -8 to -12 it is already quite noticable) and the sound has more fullness and presence-it's livelier, denser with no loss of detail at all. It's more balanced overall (maybe "warmer"?) and the bass is much deeper. My room is "bright" acoustically so I think the effect on the highs may be less obvious in my case. To my ear (and this occurs with all sources, CD's, HDDVD and HDDVR) the DynEQ seems a tad aggressive about filling in the bass (and I'm a bass player!), but it's still tight and punchy with good localization from the fronts. I have just turned the sub down 1 dB on the Denon and am likin' it a lot. I have to say the fuller sound at moderate levels is very nice but at really low levels seems a little weird sometimes, almost a little too rich or too EQ'd. Allowing that I, as most people, have been listening for umpteen years to the "normal" loss of fidelity as the sound level decreases, it may just take a little getting used to what it's supposed to sound like even when listening quietly! I am much more favorably impressed with DynEQ now that I'm not comparing apples and oranges (988 vs 789). It is a very nice option.

3. I need more time to get used to DV. It is very good for situations like holiday party music and when I invite the folks over to watch a movie. I think it will be good for commercial TV, but I need to get used to listening to TV at a much lower volume overall. I'm one of those guys who up till now liked my program levels pretty loud (for better SQ and to hear those quiet passages) and I'd just keep that remote in my hand to kill those commercials! Now with DynEQ the soundtracks sound much better at lower levels. So I've started experimenting with listening at lower volumes. I started with DV "day" which doesn't do much. Evening and especially MN compress the sound field dynamics increasingly, damping the loud and boosting the quiet parts. Quiet dialogue is more audible but so are all the commercials! So if I listen at my "usual" levels, everything's equally sorta close and "in your face", all the time. I can't expect it to nail the commercials as well as my thumb on the remote, it just won't do that.
I hope this is useful, and would like to hear from others about their experience. So far this seems well worth the $125 it cost me to swap out.
My advice to 3808 owners: IMHO, BUY THE DynEQ UPGRADE! (New 3808's come with free upgrade)

My speakers and the Audyssey values:
Fronts (RT800i towers)=-6, CTR (CS400)=-6.5, SW (PSW 350)=-7.5, Surrounds (Fx300i)=-2.5.
Apologies for the long post-too much time on my hands.

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post #738 of 5676 Old 11-23-2008, 10:09 PM
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My 989 should be arriving any day now. To get ready, I downloaded and started reading the manual.

I was planning on reusing my speakers from my old THX setup. However, it seems there is one item that I didn't research very well. I didn't realize that the 989 unit isn't capable of powering a subwoofer and my 14" subwoofer doesn't have its own amp.

One thought was to let my old THX amp power the subwoofer. But as it is just an amp (no volume controls or any other controls for that matter). Would I be able to hook up the subwoofer this way? Do an initial decibel setting for just the subwoofer under the 989 and then run through the Audyssey auto setup?

Another idea would be to just not use the 989 AMP at all and feed all of the speakers to the THX amp. But that would that would lock me into a 5.1 speaker layout as that is all the THX AMP is capable of.

Yes, other options are to just get a special sub amp with volume control or just replace the sub with a powered one. But that was an expense I hadn't accounted for and would like to work with what I already have if possible.
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post #739 of 5676 Old 11-23-2008, 10:31 PM
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I had an amp plugged into the back of my 988 and after a few days, the amp no longer comes on. I plugged the amp into my surge protector and it then came on. I tried plugging my cd player into the back of my 988 and it wouldn't come on either. The receiver works just fine except for the plugins. Did I blow a fuse or something? Any help is appreciated.

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post #740 of 5676 Old 11-23-2008, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stepyourgameup View Post

I had an amp plugged into the back of my 988 and after a few days, the amp no longer comes on. I plugged the amp into my surge protector and it then came on. I tried plugging my cd player into the back of my 988 and it wouldn't come on either. The receiver works just fine except for the plugins. Did I blow a fuse or something? Any help is appreciated.

I can't say for sure, but I was just reading the manual tonight and the total power for the AC outlets is only 120 Watts (1 Amp) total divided among both outlets.

I don't think an AMP is something I would want plugged in those outlets.
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post #741 of 5676 Old 11-24-2008, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stepyourgameup View Post

I had an amp plugged into the back of my 988 and after a few days, the amp no longer comes on. I plugged the amp into my surge protector and it then came on. I tried plugging my cd player into the back of my 988 and it wouldn't come on either. The receiver works just fine except for the plugins. Did I blow a fuse or something? Any help is appreciated.

Although you can get away with plugging in an amp, those plugs are designed for low amperage devices like a CD or DVD player. From what you describe, sounds like you blew the fuse .. .and as the Soup Natzi would say .... "No more juice for you!"

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post #742 of 5676 Old 11-24-2008, 06:29 PM
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whats the main difference between the 2809 and the 2808??
Main reason I ask is b/c the only thing i see first glance is the 5watts more the 2809 has per channel. I am considering this receiver but do not want to spend the $1k for the 2809 and am showing the 2808 for about 300 less then the 2809 at some places. Is the price diff. really worth it?
I am comparing these sets with the onkyo 706 and 806. Any suggestions here?
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post #743 of 5676 Old 11-24-2008, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opie168 View Post

whats the main difference between the 2809 and the 2808??
Main reason I ask is b/c the only thing i see first glance is the 5watts more the 2809 has per channel. I am considering this receiver but do not want to spend the $1k for the 2809 and am showing the 2808 for about 300 less then the 2809 at some places. Is the price diff. really worth it?
I am comparing these sets with the onkyo 706 and 806. Any suggestions here?

Biggest differences:
1. new Audyssey features!!!
2. more HDMI inputs.
It's an individual decision on whether $300 is "worth it". If it is not a sacrifice for you I would strongly consider the new unit. See my post above comparing the 988(=2808) and 2809(=989).
Reading the 3808 threads those who did the upgrade to the new features at $100 seem quite pleased.
3. I say get a Denon 2809 but I'm kinda biased...

Yes, I still like playing with Dalis.

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post #744 of 5676 Old 11-25-2008, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by opie168 View Post

whats the main difference between the 2809 and the 2808??
Main reason I ask is b/c the only thing i see first glance is the 5watts more the 2809 has per channel. I am considering this receiver but do not want to spend the $1k for the 2809 and am showing the 2808 for about 300 less then the 2809 at some places. Is the price diff. really worth it?
I am comparing these sets with the onkyo 706 and 806. Any suggestions here?

In addition to the new Dynamic Volume (great for reducing volume of blaring TV commercials) and Dynamic EQ (when listening to reduced volume esp at night), the 2809 also comes with a new model remote as well as a newer model Audyssey mic (cone). If the additional $$$ is not out of your budget, you would be much better served by getting the 2809 based just on the new Audyssey updates.

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post #745 of 5676 Old 11-25-2008, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

the 2809 also comes with a newer model Audyssey mic (cone). .

Hey JD,
DMA 405 vs DMA 409-I'm wondering what's the significance?

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I have a really basic question here: Why are there two separate buttons for surround sound processing? One button, "Standard," moves through surround audio modes like Dolby PLII, DTS NEO: 6, and Neural sound. The other button, "DSP Simulation," moves through surround audio modes like "Wide Screen" or "5 Ch / 7Ch Stereo," etc.

As best I can figure, the "Standard" button rotates through audio modes that require a chip and are licensed by Denon from other companies (such as Dolby). By contrast, I think "DSP Simulation" is a set of surround audio modes that have been created by Denon. Is this correct?
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post #747 of 5676 Old 11-25-2008, 09:35 AM
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The "STD" button takes you to the standard, default surround mode for any particular input type. I think it's easier to think of it as the "default" setting. It doesn't always rotate through options. For example, if you are listening to a 5.1 Dolby Digital track on a 5.1 speaker setup, the only thing it will do is put you in straight-up Dolby Digital decoding mode. If you get a 7.1 PCM track on a 7.1 speaker setup, the only option will be MULTI CH IN.

The only time it rotates through options is when there is matrixing involved. For example, if you have a 2-channel signal, it will rotate through the various way to matrix that to 5.1 or whatever (Pro Logic II, DTS:Neo, etc).

The DSP Simulations are non-standard processing effects layered on top of the standard surround decoding, and yes they are generally proprietary. Each brand (Yamaha and Sony in particular) has their own set of DSP modes. They attempt to use digitial processing to alter the sound and create different acoustic effects. These DSP modes harken back to the "old days" before Dobly Digital when receivers would try to use processing to recreate the surround-sound effect of being in a movie theater from 2-channel material.

So, think of it as the STANDARD button gives you "straight", unaltered decoding (or the default matrix mode if necessary to expand the sound to all of your speakers) with whatever type of signal you get, whereas the DSP button is to add additional processing effects on top.

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post #748 of 5676 Old 11-25-2008, 09:37 AM
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What about the 2309 and 2809 here? I noticed a few audio diff. that the 2809 had but not too sure about the rest. I am no audio buff by any means but am looking for something to hook up to my 1080p tv that does great video processing and possibly upconverts too, and able to watch D* and Blu-Ray movies on it along with a game system.

any input will be greatly appreciated. I am comparing these to an onkyo 706 or 806 as those currently are the only others ive looked at so far. any others i should glance at let me know as well. just trying to find one I can get for under $1k as ive seen the 2809 for under that at a few places.

thanks
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post #749 of 5676 Old 11-25-2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Hey JD,
DMA 405 vs DMA 409-I'm wondering what's the significance?

No clue, other than the 409 is a newer model.

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post #750 of 5676 Old 11-25-2008, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opie168 View Post

What about the 2309 and 2809 here?

the step up from 2309 to 2809 adds a lot of features, much bigger than the jump from 1909 to 2309:

1. heaver, more power, should sound a little better (better DAC's and AL24+ processing)
2. a 2nd DSP chip that allows for better processing, notably a superior version of Audyssey MultEQ (XT instead of regular MultEQ)
3. full pre-amp outs for all channels (for adding beefy external amps)
4. more inputs/outputs (especially 7 assignable video inputs instead of 5)
5. superior multizone features (3-source/3-zone instead of 2/2, video output for zone 2, can output digital audio to zone 2/3)

neither receiver will do any video processing to HDMI inputs, only passthrough, so they will be identical in that respect (in that they will leave the signal untouched!). the 2809ci should have slightly better analog>digital conversion (it has a processing feature called "NSV" which hails from Denon's hi-end DVD players, may be slightly brighter/sharper on analog/digital transcoded video).

they both have 4 hdmi inputs and Audyssey Dynamic EQ/Vol, plus the same surround modes and codecs.

basically, if you want to use your receiver as the heart of a complex AV setup with lots of devices and maybe add powerful external amps, the 2809 is the choice. for most "normal" users, with a handful of input devices who just want kick-ass sound when watching TV/movies, the 2309 will be plenty of receiver.

theoretically, the 2809 should have slightly higher audio fidelity than the 2309, but in most home setups nobody will hear the difference. only step up to the 2809 if you will actually use the extra features.

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