Official Pioneer SC-05 and SC-07 Owners Thread - Page 238 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7111 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh, graphicguy;

Here's the CAD drawings of the Susano for your new rack .. You know, "just in case"
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...%20Drawing.JPG

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
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post #7112 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 08:36 AM
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Hey CHP_VR,have you tested out the dd+ drop outs on your sc-09 yet? I know it is a diff animal,but you would think maybe the software is the same for audio decoding.just wondering if it has similar problems, thanx
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post #7113 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 08:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

However, I would think that DTS-MA and DD True HD are different ways to decode the same material? Does that mean they would sound different?

Well, theoretically speaking, if the same source was decoded into one DTS-MA soundtrack and another TrueHD soundtrack, they should sound the same when volume matched with no means of differentiation in a double blind listening test. They are different codecs, yes, but they achieve the same result...transparency to the master. We're not talking lossy audio here.

Quote:


I know I have many BDs that are DTS-MA only, as well as some who utilize True HD only. I'm assuming there's a reason for that when the studios release BDs.

Well, it's more of a business/licensing decision than anything. Disney, Lionsgate, Fox and Universal all utilize DTS' codecs, while Paramount, Sony Warner and Weinstein all utilize DD without exception.

Quote:


Also, I'm not aware of any True HD 7.1 mixes. Whereas I DO have a few BDs with DTS-MA 7.1 mixes.

I believe there is a very minuscule number of TrueHD 7.1 titles out there but I don't believe this site is up to date on the matter: http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/Stats.php
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post #7114 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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GRUNT3;
Nope, sorry.., you might try posting in the SC-09 threads though..

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
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post #7115 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNT3 View Post

Hey CHP_VR,have you tested out the dd+ drop outs on your sc-09 yet? I know it is a diff animal,but you would think maybe the software is the same for audio decoding.just wondering if it has similar problems, thanx

I have the SC-09, Toshiba XA2 & Pio BDP players, all connected with HDMI only, and have played a few (don't remember titles, tho) HD-DVD's with DD+ with no problems, no dropouts, no distortion. They played perfectly.

In fact, when I first got the SC-09 last May, I updated the XA2 to the last FW they had before the player had problems with Paramount AVC discs (2.7) and HD-DVD's with DD+ & TrueHD were the very first titles I played to verify I was getting proper bitstreamed audio.

I have had no problems with bitstreamed audio from BD's either, played on a Panasonic BD10 player, a Pioneer 05, and now the 09. PCM, TrueHD, DTS-MA, DD+ all play flawlessly. Since I have an extensive collection of both HD-DVD's & BD's, my experience should be a good cross section of titles with the SC-09.

So I have no explanation for the problems being reported here with dropout . If I do encounter a title where it does drop out, I'll make sure I post about it. This discussion has me a bit intrigued, so I may pop in a few more and watch several minutes each to see if anything happens.

ss9001

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post #7116 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 09:09 AM
 
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^Well, that just ruined my day thanks (I know, I know...don't shoot the messenger)!
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post #7117 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I have the SC-09, Toshiba XA2 & Pio BDP players, all connected with HDMI only, and have played a few (don't remember titles, tho) HD-DVD's with DD+ with no problems, no dropouts, no distortion. They played perfectly.

In fact, when I first got the SC-09 last May, I updated the XA2 to the last FW they had before the player had problems with Paramount AVC discs (2.7) and HD-DVD's with DD+ & TrueHD were the very first titles I played to verify I was getting proper bitstreamed audio.

I have had no problems with bitstreamed audio from BD's either, played on a Panasonic BD10 player, a Pioneer 05, and now the 09. PCM, TrueHD, DTS-MA, DD+ all play flawlessly. Since I have an extensive collection of both HD-DVD's & BD's, my experience should be a good cross section of titles with the SC-09.

So I have no explanation for the problems being reported here with dropout . If I do encounter a title where it does drop out, I'll make sure I post about it. This discussion has me a bit intrigued, so I may pop in a few more and watch several minutes each to see if anything happens.

ss9001

Thanx for the input ss9001
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post #7118 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^Well, that just ruined my day thanks (I know, I know...don't shoot the messenger)!

Could it be player specific? I know I haven't followed all the discussion, but don't you have the A35? Which FW are you using? Are people with XA2's also having problems?

I haven't updated my player to the last FW 4.0, because I finally have all features with 2.7 and the player no longer has any bugs that I know about at least. I deliberately kept it at 2.1 for a long time until I needed complete bitstream support. And I haven't wanted to take the chance with 4.0 since Toshiba had a bad habit of breaking something with every update

Possible it's their FW that's causing the problem with the SC's.

ss9001

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post #7119 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 09:25 AM
 
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Nope, Samsung BD-UP5000 here...which was previously being used flawlessly with an Onkyo 605, so there's some communication breakdown between the two with DD+ (DTS-MA yielded no problems on 2 titles I tried). Couple that with the Toshiba reports and it seems to point to fault on Pioneer's end.
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post #7120 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Could it be player specific? I know I haven't followed all the discussion, but don't you have the A35? Which FW are you using? Are people with XA2's also having problems?

I haven't updated my player to the last FW 4.0, because I finally have all features with 2.7 and the player no longer has any bugs that I know about at least. I deliberately kept it at 2.1 for a long time until I needed complete bitstream support. And I haven't wanted to take the chance with 4.0 since Toshiba had a bad habit of breaking something with every update

Possible it's their FW that's causing the problem with the SC's.

ss9001

I have the xa2 with 4.0 fw and had no problems when i was using my 805
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post #7121 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNT3 View Post

I have the xa2 with 4.0 fw and had no problems when i was using my 805

This is a known problem with the SC Elites and Toshiba HD DVD players, I have installed two 07's with XA-2 FW 4.0 and they both had the bit stream drop out problem when using HD Audio.
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post #7122 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Nope, Samsung BD-UP5000 here...which was previously being used flawlessly with an Onkyo 605, so there's some communication breakdown between the two with DD+ (DTS-MA yielded no problems on 2 titles I tried). Couple that with the Toshiba reports and it seems to point to fault on Pioneer's end.

I only had a problem with one of the earlier BD players from Samsung (1400?) that caused audio dropouts. Everything else I've thrown at my SC 05 has played flawlessly.....a Panny BD35, PS3 (LPCM), and a Pio BDP51. But, those are BD players. Never tried an HD-DVD player or software.

I would think that the entire SC series would use the same FW. So, there should be no difference operationally, except for the extra features that one might have over the other.

CHP, if I do indeed go for an SC 09, it would probably be because I'd want to set up a 2nd zone, in addition to having 7.1 in my main HT. Plus, it shore iz purdy!!!!!!!!!!

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #7123 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 09:56 AM
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I'm sure this has been asked before but in the new "Sound and Vision" review of the 07 it give a "minus" "no HDMI video processing". What does that mean?

Thanks,
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post #7124 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildroamer View Post

Hey CHP_VR,
Thanks for your suggestions. I don't notice much of a difference with midnight mode.

Dialogue does allow lowering of the volume, but the manual's description is misleading, or just plain wrong. What it seems to do is take the dialogue from the center channel and spread it to the mains. The problem is the right front speaker is mounted on the wall adjoining our bedroom...

I removed the speakers from my plasma so that's out.

Hmmm, headphones may just be a great idea! I imagine there are some that sound pretty sweet too!

Thanks again,

Lots of good headsets.. I use a Grado 325i but would not recommend them for listening to tv... a lot of people find them fatiguing to wear after a while. Sennheiser is very popular and comfortable. Even Sony, Panasonic and Pioneer make some good wireless ones. I'm sure you'll get a lot of recommendations

I hear ya about the display speakers.. I took mine off as well, since I was no longer using them.
But if this has become a big issue and your display is not wall mounted, you should be able to add a cheap speaker (adequate for listening to the news) to the display's speakers output....or those orb-type speakers are kinda cute and have a good WAF.

Let us know what you decide, or what configuration change you end up making.

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post #7125 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m1fuller68 View Post

I'm sure this has been asked before but in the new "Sound and Vision" review of the 07 it give a "minus" "no HDMI video processing". What does that mean?

Thanks,


It means that any video hooked up to the receivers HDMI inputs will not be touched/upconverted.

Juan

My HT
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post #7126 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post

This is a known problem with the SC Elites and Toshiba HD DVD players, I have installed two 07's with XA-2 FW 4.0 and they both had the bit stream drop out problem when using HD Audio.

That's why I asked about the FW.

Every FW update Toshiba did from the onset caused problems for some combination of gear or connectivity. I always held my breath when updating the player, hoping not to lose the HDCP handshake with my RPTV with DVI. To be honest, I got one of the first batches of XA2's & its original FW out of the box did not work with my TV. I had to update the FW just to get it to work.

Someone figured out how to revert the players back to earlier FW using a hex editor on the FW & there were whole threads on how to do this and the editors used.

You've given me another good reason NOT to update the player to 4.0. 2.7 has worked just fine for me and that's where I'm staying!

My suggestion for Toshiba's is to check out how to revert back to an earlier version and try going to 2.7. FW 2.8 was a fiasco in that it created jaggies with certain AVC encoded discs, particularly from Paramount. IIRC, 3.0 didn't fix it but 4.0 did.

I don't have an answer on the Samsungs

ss9001

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post #7127 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 10:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

I only had a problem with one of the earlier BD players from Samsung (1400?) that caused audio dropouts. Everything else I've thrown at my SC 05 has played flawlessly.....a Panny BD35, PS3 (LPCM), and a Pio BDP51. But, those are BD players. Never tried an HD-DVD player or software.

Having tried 2 DTS-MA Blu-rays on the device with flawless playback, it certainly seems to be codec-related.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

That's why I asked about the FW.

Every FW update Toshiba did from the onset caused problems for some combination of gear or connectivity. Someone worked out how to revert the players back to earlier FW using a hex editor on the FW & there were whole threads on how to do this and the editors used.

You've given me another good reason NOT to update the player to 4.0. 2.7 has worked just fine for me!

FW 2.8 was a fiasco in that they provided 1080p/24 support but created jaggies with certain AVC encoded discs, particularly from Paramount. IIRC, 3.0 didn't fix it but 4.0 did.

My suggestion is to check out how to revert back to an earlier version and try going to 2.7. Just my opinion, but I don't see Pioneer doing much to fix Toshiba's problems with a dead format.

Except, as already stated, with my Samsung the behavior is the same and Onkyo seems to do just fine with the bitstream being delivered by both Samsung and Toshiba HD DVD players. I don't know who should shoulder the most blame but Pioneer is not blameless in this, IMO.
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post #7128 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post

It means that any video hooked up to the receivers HDMI inputs will not be touched/upconverted.

Which many people (including myself) consider a PLUS not a minus..

If that is something you need, you'll need something like a DVDO Edge or a different receiver (that will do it better than your display will). None of the Pioneer's will do this, m1fuller68.

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post #7129 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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graphicguy;
Quote:
Plus, it shore iz purdy!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't that enough??

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post #7130 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

That's why I asked about the FW.

Every FW update Toshiba did from the onset caused problems for some combination of gear or connectivity. I always held my breath when updating the player, hoping not to lose the HDCP handshake with my RPTV with DVI. To be honest, I got one of the first batches of XA2's & its original FW out of the box did not work with my TV. I had to update the FW just to get it to work.

Someone figured out how to revert the players back to earlier FW using a hex editor on the FW & there were whole threads on how to do this and the editors used.

You've given me another good reason NOT to update the player to 4.0. 2.7 has worked just fine for me and that's where I'm staying!

And FW 2.8 was a fiasco in that they provided 1080p/24 support but created jaggies with certain AVC encoded discs, particularly from Paramount. IIRC, 3.0 didn't fix it but 4.0 did.

My suggestion is to check out how to revert back to an earlier version and try going to 2.7. Just my opinion, but I don't see Pioneer doing much to fix Toshiba's problems with a dead format. If HD-DVD were still alive it would have been Toshiba's responsibility to fix the compatibility issue.

ss9001

just watched bourne identity 40 min total 20 min on dd+ english and 20 min dd+ french,enlglish dropout every 2 min,no dropouts on french,if i spoke french that would be fine
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post #7131 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 10:36 AM
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I'm thinking of getting the Sc-05 but I'm worried about 18" being too deep for my 20" deep stand w/door. What you do think?
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post #7132 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post

It means that any video hooked up to the receivers HDMI inputs will not be touched/upconverted.

Which is a plus in my book.
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post #7133 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Which many people (including myself) consider a PLUS not a minus..

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwracer3 View Post

Which is a plus in my book.

Same here.

Juan

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post #7134 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNT3 View Post

just watched bourne identity 40 min total 20 min on dd+ english and 20 min dd+ french,enlglish dropout every 2 min,no dropouts on french,if i spoke french that would be fine

I know we watched the 3rd Bourne movie with no problems with the SC-09. Not trying to diminish your problem which would drive me crazy & I relate to your frustration. Are you willing to try reverting back to say FW 2.7?

There's a way to do it by modifying the date/FW version code using a hex editor. Now that I think about it, at one time, someone posted the modded FW's. I can't do it now, but I can try to find the link.

You could also set the player to decode DD+ and bitstream PCM to the SC.

Unless & until Pioneer decides to do something, I know of no other answers...

ss9001

Steve
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post #7135 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

I'm thinking of getting the Sc-05 but I'm worried about 18" being too deep for my 20" deep stand w/door. What you do think?

well, i pulled the trigger because i wanted it tomorrow, Amazon Prime.

I think what I'll do if I have to is take off the back of my unit and let the receiver go out as far as it needs to. I think that'll work. I hope.
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Grunt, if you haven't already, I recommend calling Pioneer and outlining your problem to them. I just did the same and got a case #. He seemed to be unaware of the problem but would pass a note on to engineering and email me back any findings. I have the option of taking the receiver to the other side of town for diagnostics from a service center but I'd rather not waste my time if we have a documented systemic problem on our hands that Pioneer themselves can verify. I'll try the Bourne Identity later to see if French is without dropouts.
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post #7137 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 11:18 AM
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As I noted in my initial post I wanted to listen to the CD input while displaying one of the HDMI video sources;
Well it turns out the SC-05 WILL NOT do it.

I spoke to their tech support and the SC units do not have this feature!
So I took it back and went with an Integra DTR 9.9 which does this as it did my cheapo AVR-705 Onkyo...

I do miss the slick appearance of the SC-05 but have to have this feature.
Thanks for all your help

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Here's the way two members did it, euromade (linked on first page)

BuffaloDenny:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...3#post15251753
and info_dan
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...6#post15260846

Hope that helps, let us know.

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post #7138 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

I'm thinking of getting the Sc-05 but I'm worried about 18" being too deep for my 20" deep stand w/door. What you do think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

well, i pulled the trigger because i wanted it tomorrow, Amazon Prime.

I think what I'll do if I have to is take off the back of my unit and let the receiver go out as far as it needs to. I think that'll work. I hope.

Congratulations, b_scott

Your plan certainly sounds the best. 20" should be enough, but that would be an awefully tight squeeze, allowing only about 1 3/4inch for your cables (leaving about 1/8 inch for the front door clearance).. I sawed the back of mine for my SC-07 so I could leave a top back and bottom back panel.
However way you manage it, it'll be worth it!
Just be sure you have adequate ventilation for the fan (it's on the left side, facing the front)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post15198973

Let us know what you think when Amazon delivers your new baby!
And welcome to the ICE Club!

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post #7139 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I know we watched the 3rd Bourne movie with no problems with the SC-09. Not trying to diminish your problem which would drive me crazy & I relate to your frustration. Are you willing to try reverting back to say FW 2.7?

As I said earlier, the 3rd Borune is DD-THD and not DD+.

Quote:


You could also set the player to decode DD+ and bitstream PCM to the SC.

Unless & until Pioneer decides to do something, I know of no other answers...

As we all know this is the simple solution that would solve the problem with no loss in audio quality with the XA2..

Pioneer should fix the issue.

But using the player to decode is right here, right now... this issue occurred when receivers first showed up that did DD+ decoding, and had also manifested itself with the LG combo players and some decoders...

This seems to be one of the few flaws in an otherwise excellent product (and a flaw few will run into and one that is easily avoidable by using in player decoding.)

Just my .02...
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post #7140 of 17123 Old 04-09-2009, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Congratulations, b_scott

Your plan certainly sounds the best. 20" should be enough, but that would be an awefully tight squeeze, allowing only about 1 3/4inch for your cables (leaving about 1/8 inch for the front door clearance).. I sawed the back of mine for my SC-07 so I could leave a top back and bottom back panel.
However way you manage it, it'll be worth it!
Just be sure you have adequate ventilation for the fan (it's on the left side, facing the front)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post15198973

Let us know what you think when Amazon delivers your new baby!
And welcome to the ICE Club!

Thanks CHP_VR! I'll definitely let you know, and I'm sure I'll have questions.

I think I already asked this one, but how many "devices" can you have attached to the receiver to be selected? My Onkyo 705 only allows 5.
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