Official Pioneer SC-05 and SC-07 Owners Thread - Page 239 - AVS Forum
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post #7141 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 12:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

As I said earlier, the 3rd Borune is DD-THD and not DD+.



As we all know this is the simple solution that would solve the problem with no loss in audio quality with the XA2..

Pioneer should fix the issue.

But using the player to decode is right here, right now... this issue occurred when receivers first showed up that did DD+ decoding, and had also manifested itself with the LG combo players and some decoders...

This seems to be one of the few flaws in an otherwise excellent product (and a flaw few will run into and one that is easily avoidable by using in player decoding.)

Just my .02...

I agree that it's a temp fix...but I don't look forward to the hassle of switching back and forth between bitstreaming and decoding on my player (it is unable to decode DTS-MA). Hopefully, Pioneer will listen to the complaints and get a fix out pronto.
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post #7142 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 12:37 PM
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Hello!

Proud to say that after a 3 week wait for Best Buy to fulfill my order I finally joined the Pioneer Elite SC-05 club yesterday. I am upgrading from an Onkyo TX SR-605 and all I can say after only 2 hours of listening is...WOW. What a difference. Crisp, clean, powerful, etc. etc. etc. The unit sounds fantastic and I found the MCACC to be infinitely more comprehensive and efficient than the Audessey calibration software I was working with before.

Would love to hear about any tips of tricks you guys would like to share with a newbie . In the meantime, maybe one of you could answer a quick question that I have. I know that the SC-05 doesn't process any HDMI signals, but when I tried upconverting the 1080i signal from the cable box coming through component cables the unit informed me that 1080p upconversion was was not supported! Am I missing something or does the SC-05 not process any HD signals, regardless of whether they are HDMI or component based? Looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

Best,
Mike
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post #7143 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Some good news for those with BDP-05.51 players attached to their SC-05 and SC-07s from Chris Walker:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

I can tell you that the BDP-51/05 are scheduled to have DTS-HD Master Decoding, Adjustable Xover, and JPEG Photo decoding...


Also, there is a memory difference between the 09 and 05/51....

Chris

and for those with the BDP-09 :
Quote:


2.42 is not available yet... It will be available once it makes it way through our quality control section.....

Chris


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post #7144 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

Ripeart:

Remember no posting of prices in the discussion forums. That's against forum rules.

Can you PM me what you paid for the SC-09. I am debating switching to one also.

Ooo sorry about that. Won't happen again.
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post #7145 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPerlo9 View Post

Hello!

Proud to say that after a 3 week wait for Best Buy to fulfill my order I finally joined the Pioneer Elite SC-05 club yesterday. I am upgrading from an Onkyo TX SR-605 and all I can say after only 2 hours of listening is...WOW. What a difference. Crisp, clean, powerful, etc. etc. etc. The unit sounds fantastic and I found the MCACC to be infinitely more comprehensive and efficient than the Audessey calibration software I was working with before.

Would love to hear about any tips of tricks you guys would like to share with a newbie . In the meantime, maybe one of you could answer a quick question that I have. I know that the SC-05 doesn't process any HDMI signals, but when I tried upconverting the 1080i signal from the cable box coming through component cables the unit informed me that 1080p upconversion was was not supported! Am I missing something or does the SC-05 not process any HD signals, regardless of whether they are HDMI or component based? Looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

Best,
Mike

I'm moving from the Onkyo 705 to the SC-05. I hope I have the same experience
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post #7146 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

Thanks CHP_VR! I'll definitely let you know, and I'm sure I'll have questions.

I think I already asked this one, but how many "devices" can you have attached to the receiver to be selected? My Onkyo 705 only allows 5.

This many:

Page 93

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post #7147 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 01:00 PM
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nice. i thought it was odd you could only have 5 sources set up.
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post #7148 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPerlo9 View Post

Hello!

Proud to say that after a 3 week wait for Best Buy to fulfill my order I finally joined the Pioneer Elite SC-05 club yesterday. I am upgrading from an Onkyo TX SR-605 and all I can say after only 2 hours of listening is...WOW. What a difference. Crisp, clean, powerful, etc. etc. etc. The unit sounds fantastic and I found the MCACC to be infinitely more comprehensive and efficient than the Audessey calibration software I was working with before.

Would love to hear about any tips of tricks you guys would like to share with a newbie . In the meantime, maybe one of you could answer a quick question that I have. I know that the SC-05 doesn't process any HDMI signals, but when I tried upconverting the 1080i signal from the cable box coming through component cables the unit informed me that 1080p upconversion was was not supported! Am I missing something or does the SC-05 not process any HD signals, regardless of whether they are HDMI or component based? Looking forward to hearing what you have to say.

Best,
Mike

Congratulations, MPerlo9

Not too many tricks, besides, half the fun is pushing all the buttons to see what they do

the SC-05/07 will not convert HD input 720p or 1080i to 1080p.
If you want to convert to 1080p, you will have to set the output to something other than 720p or 1080i and let the receiver convert it to 1080p.
Or just put it on AUTO, then any res. other then 720p or 1080i will then convert to 1080p (or the native res. of your display).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post15016314

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post #7149 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I agree that it's a temp fix...but I don't look forward to the hassle of switching back and forth between bitstreaming and decoding on my player (it is unable to decode DTS-MA). Hopefully, Pioneer will listen to the complaints and get a fix out pronto.

How many HD-DVD DTS-HD titles were there?
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post #7150 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 01:35 PM
 
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Most were overseas...I think one US title (Pan's Labyrinth).

...but again I use a combo player (Samsung BD-UP5000) for both BD and HD DVD with a ton of DD+ HD DVD titles (some still waiting to be watched).
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post #7151 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

As I said earlier, the 3rd Borune is DD-THD and not DD+.



As we all know this is the simple solution that would solve the problem with no loss in audio quality with the XA2..

Pioneer should fix the issue.

But using the player to decode is right here, right now... this issue occurred when receivers first showed up that did DD+ decoding, and had also manifested itself with the LG combo players and some decoders...

This seems to be one of the few flaws in an otherwise excellent product (and a flaw few will run into and one that is easily avoidable by using in player decoding.)

Just my .02...

the problem is not just when bit streaming,when the player decodes, there is about a 10db drop in volume,this should not be, i should not have to work around it,dead format or not.as far as bourne goes,i will prob double dip and get them on blu
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post #7152 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I know we watched the 3rd Bourne movie with no problems with the SC-09. Not trying to diminish your problem which would drive me crazy & I relate to your frustration. Are you willing to try reverting back to say FW 2.7?

There's a way to do it by modifying the date/FW version code using a hex editor. Now that I think about it, at one time, someone posted the modded FW's. I can't do it now, but I can try to find the link.

You could also set the player to decode DD+ and bitstream PCM to the SC.

Unless & until Pioneer decides to do something, I know of no other answers...

ss9001

very willing to try rolling back,even found some links to direct download of modded fw but they were gone.i found a guy on another forum who has 2.8 modded and may be willing to mod earlier fw's also,i sent him an e-mail,so we will see
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post #7153 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 01:58 PM
 
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I just want Pioneer themselves to admit this problem exists because the rep I spoke with didn't seem to be aware of it. I am waiting for him to get back to me.
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post #7154 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I just want Pioneer themselves to admit this problem exists because the rep I spoke with didn't seem to be aware of it. I am waiting for him to get back to me.

I can't believe he has not heard of this,our European counterparts are having the same problem,you can't be the only one who called them
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post #7155 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNT3 View Post

the problem is not just when bit streaming,when the player decodes, there is about a 10db drop in volume,this should not be, i should not have to work around it,dead format or not.as far as bourne goes,i will prob double dip and get them on blu

GRUNT... I don't recall that issue with my A35 or XA2 (i.e. 10db difference...)

But it's been awhile.
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post #7156 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 02:25 PM
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I don't recall the drop in dB but I can confirm a problem exists between the SC's and XA2 with HD Audio bit streamed. As stated before on two different installs with two different XA2's and various HD DVD's including Transformers and Borne, can't remember the others. I have had no problems with Yamaha's and Onkyo's with XA-2 bit streaming or outputting PCM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

GRUNT... I don't recall that issue with my A35 or XA2 (i.e. 10db difference...)

But it's been awhile.

someone else posted a few pages back about the db difference,i think that poster said 15db
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post #7158 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post

I don't recall the drop in dB but I can confirm a problem exists between the SC's and XA2 with HD Audio bit streamed. As stated before on two different installs with two different XA2's and various HD DVD's including Transformers and Borne, can't remember the others. I have had no problems with Yamaha's and Onkyo's with XA-2 bit streaming or outputting PCM.

king kong is another one,and i had no prob with my onk 805
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post #7159 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNT3 View Post

someone else posted a few pages back about the db difference,i think that poster said 15db

So you haven't experience the difference yourself?

The quote I remember seeing was referring to the initial WB HD-DVD releases... there was some miscommunication with WB and the tracks were lowered upon decoding prior to entering the mixer to leave headroom for the mixer, which didn't need to be done.. raising the volume on the receiver countered the error.

I will honestly say I never tried those discs as a bitstream/decode test, but the others I owned did not have an issue of a 10db difference as I remember.

There isn't any dispute that this issue exists... if it's important to prospective buyers they should steer clear.. there is no guarantee that it will ever be addressed.

For those it affects, I would strongly suggest letting Pioneer know if you haven't already.

We've all tried to give a workaround for the issue for those affected... it's a little inconvenient for some, and unfortunate.. but haven't we beaten this horse enough?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

So you haven't experience the difference yourself?

The quote I remember seeing was referring to the initial WB HD-DVD releases... there was some miscommunication with WB and the tracks were lowered upon decoding prior to entering the mixer to leave headroom for the mixer, which didn't need to be done.. raising the volume on the receiver countered the error.

I will honestly say I never tried those discs as a bitstream/decode test, but the others I owned did not have an issue of a 10db difference as I remember.

There isn't any dispute that this issue exists... if it's important to prospective buyers they should steer clear.. there is no guarantee that it will ever be addressed.

For those it affects, I would strongly suggest letting Pioneer know if you haven't already.

We've all tried to give a workaround for the issue for those affected... it's a little inconvenient for some, and unfortunate.. but haven't we beaten this horse enough?

I may have read the db difference post over in avforum,as they are talking about this problem too,that is when i tried it myself with bourne,and i get about 8-10db difference.I would not call it a inconvenience,it would be if i only paid 5$ for the receiver,but we know it was a lot more than that,anyway i appreciate the help
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Sorry, I just arrived...haven't had the receiver but for a few weeks. I should've more thoroughly examined this 120-page thread. It's a bit disappointing that a receiver at least half the MRSP can get it right (Onkyo 605) but Pioneer's own "Elite" brand is flawed.
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post #7162 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Sorry, I just arrived...haven't had the receiver but for a few weeks. I should've more thoroughly examined this 120-page thread. It's a bit disappointing that a receiver at least half the MRSP can get it right (Onkyo 605) but Pioneer's own "Elite" brand is flawed.

Then you may want to return in now since it's only a few weeks old and flawed by your standards. You obiously won't be happy with it, and Pioneer probably won't "unflaw" it for DD+ for HD-DVD format.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

............................................................
We've all tried to give a workaround for the issue for those affected... it's a little inconvenient for some, and unfortunate.. but haven't we beaten this horse enough?

+1 By experts in the industry and advanced users like ss9001

You may want to check the AVforum here:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/hd-dv...r-hd-dvds.html
a few quotes:

Quote:


I did some further testing today with another film on HD-DVD (Chronicles of Riddick) & I think the problem is just with the English Language DD+ soundtrack as the Spanish & French Language DD+ soundtracks bitstreamed fine on that particular movie with no dropouts to the LX81!

Quote:


The fact that my Warner HD-DVDs play ok with their DD+ soundtracks seemed stange. I got info from an AVSForums board member who highlighted the fact that I wasn't aware of related to Warner HD DVD DD+ soundtracks. Apparently most of the Warner HD-DVD DD+ soundtracks are encoded at 640kbits (I think) whereas the Universal / Paramount are 1.5Mbps (I think). Just mentioning what was fed back to me - I don't know this for certain (& can't test it).


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post #7163 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 03:47 PM
 
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While I did get it from an authorized dealer, they won't accept returns so I'll just have to tolerate it.

I still don't like the dishonesty exhibited by the rep with whom I spoke...especially since this receiver's been out since August of last year. I can't be the first one to have reported this. I don't think expecting it to work as advertised is asking for too much.
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post #7164 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNT3 View Post
king kong is another one,and i had no prob with my onk 805
Now I KNOW we watched King Kong with the 09 and DD+ and again no problems If I get time, I'll try to re-confirm which processors the 09 & 07/05 uses. It's been a long time since I looked all that stuff up.

Even tho there's strong evidence that Pioneer implementation has something to do with the problem, the posts here keep confirming that Toshiba's FW 4.0 is a big factor.

Hate to keep repeating myself ......is rolling back to FW 2.7 an option? 2.5 introduced stutter with 1080p/24, fixed with 2.7. 2.8 caused problems with AVC codec, wasn't fixed until 4.0. So....2.7 seems to be the best option to me

If you folks can find it with the modded header that fakes the player that it is is a later version than 4.0 - you most likely have a fix with or without Pioneer's help.

I had downloaded & saved the thread page referring to how to mod the FW with a hex editor but don't have the links to the FW. I have all Toshiba's FW iso files for the XA2, A35 & XA1 since I've owned all 3. I bought a demo A35 solely as a backup in case the XA2 dies. I can send the FW to any of you if needed. I had downloaded a freebie hex code editor and checked out the code in case I had to do this, but haven't actually done it.

I looked in the HD-DVD thread, but the specific thread discussing how to revert is not there anymore. You probably can find many references within the player FW discussion threads.

Attached is my downloaded page on how to do it.

ss9001

 

You can go back to older Firmwares - AVS Forum.zip 232.7880859375k . file
Attached Files
File Type: zip You can go back to older Firmwares - AVS Forum.zip (232.8 KB, 4 views)

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post #7165 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't either, vinnie97, and if your rep was dishonest about it, I'm sure you can make a case to have him take it back. I know I would be upset if I specifically asked about something and was lied to about it, especially if I based my purchase on what he told me. (and who knows, if you did that, Pioneer might even do something about it, knowing they lost money on a sale because of that issue).

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post #7166 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 03:56 PM
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Thanks...I don't think it will be an issue as I will have mine hooked to the SOny VP60 projector. Thanks Juan as well for the repsonse...
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post #7167 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, ss9001

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

I don't either, vinnie97, and if your rep was dishonest about it, I'm sure you can make a case to have him take it back. I know I would be upset if I specifically asked about something and was lied to about it, especially if I based my purchase on what he told me. (and who knows, if you did that, Pioneer might even do something about it, knowing they lost money on a sale because of that issue).

I actually meant the customer service rep at Pioneer...I didn't even think of bringing up this issue with the authorized reseller (because I didn't realize how widespread it was). They weren't misleading, there just wasn't communication on this specific issue. Like I said before, I should've analyzed this thread more before taking the plunge.
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post #7169 of 17105 Old 04-09-2009, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Just really sorry if this issue takes enjoyment away from you, vinnie97.

Hopefully the workaround FilmMixer suggested or the firmware rollback ss9001 related can help.

It really is one heck of an excellent reciever. Best of fortune

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Thanks...again, no Toshiba here so that firmware rollback method is useless to me. But that doesn't mean I can't set the player to do all the decoding for the DD+ titles and hope Pioneer doesn't leave us out to dry.
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