Official Pioneer SC-05 and SC-07 Owners Thread - Page 281 - AVS Forum
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post #8401 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 09:16 AM
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I have had my SC-05 up & running for about 2 weeks - last night I watched a blu-ray of Chicago & Earth, Wind & Fire in concert - WOW!!! These ICE amps are no joke....they stay clean when pushed. So far I am loving the 05!!!
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post #8402 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 09:26 AM
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Can anyone tell me what should be the Audio Setting Output for PS3 to be set at???

Does Pioneer displays what kind of Input it is receiving from PS3 for example TrueHD or something like that ?
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post #8403 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icemanu View Post

Can anyone tell me what should be the Audio Setting Output for PS3 to be set at???

Does Pioneer displays what kind of Input it is receiving from PS3 for example TrueHD or something like that ?

You have to set it output LPCM, icemanu. The PS3 doesn't bitstream, all decoding is performed internally buy the PS3
The SC-05/07 display should only read PCM,
Once you do all of that, if you want to verify what codec you're playing, hit the triangle button on the PS3 to display it

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post16085017
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post15895794

Cool, I beat Juan and graphicguy (the real experts, BTW) and I don't even own a PS3

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #8404 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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BigStig,
Thanks for your comparitive reviews
Added to member's reviews page 2

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #8405 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

You have to set it output LPCM, icemanu. The PS3 doesn't bitstream, all decoding is performed internally buy the PS3
The SC-05/07 display should only read PCM,
Once you do all of that, if you want to verify what codec you're playing, hit the triangle button on the PS3 to display it

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post16085017
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post15895794

Cool, I beat Juan and graphicguy (the real experts, BTW) and I don't even own a PS3


Icemanu,

Charles is correct, also make sure that all the surround formats are checked under the audio settings on the PS3, if you set it for auto though, you should not have to do anything else, it is just good to check. One more thing, you want to turn off DRC (I think that what it is called) in the PS3.

Juan

My HT
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post #8406 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 10:24 AM
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My apology if this has already been answered. I've tried reading and searching and I'm afraid that I'm confusing myself. I'm wondering if the PQLS feature of the 05/07 has any impact on a DVD or is it only used when playing an audio disc?

The reason I'm asking is to try and determine if the rumored future SC's with multi-channel PQLS will be of any benefit to somebody who is 100% DVD (and, of course BD).

Or, to phrase it another way, what I really DON'T want is an excuse to NOT buy the SC-07 right now.

Thanks for all of the help.
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post #8407 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDinAL View Post

My apology if this has already been answered. I've tried reading and searching and I'm afraid that I'm confusing myself. I'm wondering if the PQLS feature of the 05/07 has any impact on a DVD or is it only used when playing an audio disc?

The reason I'm asking is to try and determine if the rumored future SC's with multi-channel PQLS will be of any benefit to somebody who is 100% DVD (and, of course BD).

Or, to phrase it another way, what I really DON'T want is an excuse to NOT buy the SC-07 right now.

Thanks for all of the help.

You will see no benefit when bit streaming codec audio.
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post #8408 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDinAL View Post

My apology if this has already been answered. I've tried reading and searching and I'm afraid that I'm confusing myself. I'm wondering if the PQLS feature of the 05/07 has any impact on a DVD or is it only used when playing an audio disc?

The reason I'm asking is to try and determine if the rumored future SC's with multi-channel PQLS will be of any benefit to somebody who is 100% DVD (and, of course BD).

Or, to phrase it another way, what I really DON'T want is an excuse to NOT buy the SC-07 right now.

Thanks for all of the help.

Multi-Channel PQLS is for future receivers. Nothing will take advantage of it yet, and I believe it's for stuff like 5.1 and TrueHD.
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post #8409 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDinAL View Post

My apology if this has already been answered. I’ve tried reading and searching and I’m afraid that I’m confusing myself. I’m wondering if the PQLS feature of the 05/07 has any impact on a DVD or is it only used when playing an audio disc?

The reason I’m asking is to try and determine if the rumored future SC’s with multi-channel PQLS will be of any benefit to somebody who is 100% DVD (and, of course BD).

Or, to phrase it another way, what I really DON’T want is an excuse to NOT buy the SC-07 right now.

Thanks for all of the help.

Can't speak for anything in the future, but as of right now, you need a Pioneer 05/51 BD player and an SC AVR to utilize PQLS. And, only then, it will be in 2 channel.

(b....sorry, you beat me to it)

The new Pio BD players are rumored to have multi-channel PQLS. But, that can only be utilized with an AVR that is multi-ch PQLS capable. As of right now, those AVRs don't exist.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #8410 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

umm... macfan? ...

LOL. Okay, here goes. See below. If I missed anything, let me know and I'll update.
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post #8411 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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AUDIO and VIDEO Tips for the PS3 from members
last edited 09/03/09

Audio Setting Output for Your PS3 and SC-05 (SC-LX71) and SC-07(SC-LX81)



Question: Does Pioneer display what kind of Input it is receiving from PS3 for example TrueHD or something like that ?
Answer: No, if properly decoding from your PS3, it will read: PCM
The PS3 will not bitstream. It decodes internally


Graphicguy:
You want to set your PS3 to LPCM output.
Check every box in the LPCM setup page.
The SC displays what it's decoding. That is, DD, DTS, THX, etc. When it's being sent already decoded data packets/bits via LPCM, it shows that, too.

You can display the codec being played. Hit the "display" button and it will show the HD codec in the upper right on your display. (see picture below)
The PS3 will show you what codec is being played. Just hit the "triangle" on the remote and it will show on your PDP (along with the bit rate, and a bunch of other info).

Juan: also make sure that all the surround formats are checked under the audio settings on the PS3, if you set it for auto though, you should not have to do anything else, it is just good to check. One more thing, you want to turn off DRC (I think that what it is called) in the PS3.


Side comment by graphicguy regarding audio:

As a rule of thumb, the majority (not nearly all) of BD titles out there either have uncompressed LPCM, True HD or Master HD codecs. These are all HD.
Some BDs do indeed just carry the lossy "older" codecs.
I would say the majority of the time (not always), you have to go into the audio or language set up menu of the BD and choose the HD codec for playback.
Once you do all of that, if you're still not certain what codec you're playing, just hit the triangle button on the PS3 to display it.
Short of that, if those lights on the AVR mean something to you, buy a BD player that bitstreams and have the AVR decode HD (with the associated lights).


Getting DTS CDs to play properly
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

from Griffy at Audioholic forum thanks Info-Dan
The PS3 will play DTS music cd's fine, if your AV amp can decode them, which shouldn't be much of an issue
Play the cd in the PS3

If you only get noise, try the following: Under "Audio Output Settings" select HDMI or Optical. When using HDMI, stipulate you want to use manual settings. Pretty sure you can edit the output for optical too.
Deselect LPCM 2ch 88.2 and 176.4, leave only 44.1. Under "Music Settings" set Audio CD Output Frequency to "44.1/88.2/176.4 kHz".
Voila! Lovely DTS sound from a cd!

Don't get confused by the bitmapping option for cd's. Details for the different options are below.

Off - Have a Guess? Disable bitmapping

Type 1
Set to use a technique called dithering to reduce noise or distortion produced during audio output

Type 2
Set to use a technique called noise shaping to reduce noise in the audible range

Type 3
Set to use a special dithering technique developed specifically for the PS3 system to enhance audio playback

I'm told type 3 is about the most effective for most playback sources, but there's no harm in trying out all settings with a good source and see what your own ears think

(When playing audio CDs, these functions are available only when audio is being output at a frequency of 88.2 kHz or 176.4 kHz. Set [Audio CD Output Frequency] under (Settings) > (Music Settings) to [44.1 / 88.2 / 176.4 kHz]. )



Video Settings for Your PS3 and SC-05 (SC-LX71) and SC-07(SC-LX81):
:
If you get no video when connected to HDMI:
darrellh44
I'll admit that I played with several settings on the PS3 Settings menu to get my SC05 to pass video, but I think it was the PS3 display resolution setting that got me going. BTW, my PS3 rev is 2.70.

Here's the steps I had to go thru to setup the PS3:

- First connect your PS3 directly to your display to bypass the SC05's HDCP interference.

- Select the 'Display' menu on the PS3 under 'Settings'

- Select "Video Output Settings', then 'HDMI', and then 'Custom'.

- In the list of resolutions, select only the native resolution of your display (except that 480p can't be deselected).

- Use the remote's right arrow key to go to the next menu to see a summary of your new selections and then press 'X' to save.

- Select 'Finish' on the next menu to return to 'Settings'.

- Reconnect the SC05 in your HDMI signal path and see if it works.

If this doesn't work, the only other thing I can think of is to check your display to see if it's setup to accept the resolution you expect.

-Darrell

image with PS3 information through the SC-05 displayed (compliments of graphicguy)
Volume Setting on PS3:
Problem and Solution by Firebrick
Ive never had a PS3 before so not familiar with it. I checked off all the LPCM modes in the audio setup hoping that would fix the sound problem. Turned on helicopter attack scene from apocalypse now and it still sucked big time
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
one of the settings you can change is on the PS3 is volume while you are watching a movie, it goes from -2 to +2. I put it up to +2 and then it began to sound like my old 56txi.


Excellent additional information on your PS3 is here:
Official PS3 FAQ Master Thread

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #8412 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^
Put the above post together for the PS3 questions we get... and will link in first page.
Information was gathered from the posts of Juan, graphicguy and darrellh44 and firebrick..
Please let me know what I missed/left out/ or got confused about..

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #8413 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 10:59 AM
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In response to FAQ's about up-conversion:

Current Pioneer Elite AVR's do not support up-conversion of any signal from an HDMI source. They only convert analog signals from the component, S-Video, or composite inputs. In the latter case, the converted signal is available from either the component or HDMI outputs.

Does this matter? Apparently it does to various CE marketing departments. For the end user, not really.

Most modern AV equipment already has up-conversion capability built in. Up-conversion is a generalized term that is applied to two separate processes: De-interlacing (converting from interlaced to progressive, aka i to p) ) and Scaling (converting from one resolution to another, e.g. 480 to 720 or 1080). Of the two, the first is the more problematical.

Virtually all reasonably new playback components such as DVD players and Cable/Satellite boxes incorporate some sort of de-interlacing (aka Progressive Scan). Some of them do it very well, most are at least adequate.

TV's have the same capability. They are designed to play back the most common signals (480i, 720p, and 1080i in North America) and have internal processors that de-interlace (with a couple of exotic exceptions, all digital displays are progressive) and scale to the display's native resolution (usually 720p, 768p, or 1080p).

In theory at least, it is better to de-interlace early in the signal chain, so a good DVD player is likely to do a better job of it than the display. This may or may not prove to be true in practice, depending on the combination of components involved. Cable/Satellite boxes generally use inexpensive chips and are unlikely to produce better results than the TV.

As implied above, displays do not need scaling by an outside device. They do it themselves. In fact, because of over-scanning, they usually rescale signals that seem to be the same as their native resolution.

All of which means that up-conversion in an AVR is redundant, especially with a digital (HDMI) source. Modern TV's do an excellent job on their own, and the best of them (e.g. Kuros) do it better than anything short of an expensive external processor.

Some TV's, especially older or low end models, can benefit from having an AVR up-convert legacy devices (VCR's, Laserdisc players, etc.) and a few find they can improve their cable SD picture, but most people don't need this type of processing in their AVR's, especially with components that support HDMI. In fact, THX recommends switching the Elite's Digital Video Conversion circuit OFF for optimal video performance. (If nothing else, this is likely to reduce heat output a bit.)

As an aside, there is debate about the merits of different up-conversion chips. It's true that various chips have their strengths and weaknesses and that some have developed a mystique on AVS, but it is also true that implementation of the chip's features varies by component manufacturer. Brand of chip alone does not assure quality performance.
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post #8414 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 11:06 AM
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that works... good man!

extra apple sticker for you today...

might want to throw a bit in there about transcoding, since people seem to get confused with that as well...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #8415 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh wow.. awesome MacFan, thank you very much.
And thanks for taking all that time and effort to really make it understandable.
This is great information!
Linked on first page.

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #8416 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 11:09 AM
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Great to hear so many testimonials about 4 ohm speakers. I'm going to pick up my SC-05 on Monday and I have 4 ohm MB Quart QLS 1030 tower and 530 center. Granted, they're being driven quite well by my current Pioneer VSX-03TXH which is also not rated for 4 ohm, so I guess I shouldn't worry, since theoretically the SC-05 is a step up. But since the 03 uses traditional amps and the 05 uses ICE amps I didn't know if this would present a problem.

One remaining concern
Is the PS3 pass through to the SC-05 a known problem? I ask because my PS3 is passing through my VSX-03TXH with nary an issue (other than the occasional HDMI handshake dropout when transitioning between FBI warnings to trailers to the main menu). I'd like to think the HDMI passthrough implementation for the SC-05 is similar/the same to the 03TXH since they're the same generation from Pioneer (2008 line) and that I won't have a problem. But now I'm starting to get worried based on a few responses over the last few pages.
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post #8417 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 11:12 AM
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I am considering using a mini to optical cable from an Apple Airport Express to the SC-05. Has anyone used an Airport Express to send iTunes music from a Mac to the SC-05 and were there any issues? Thanks
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post #8418 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarloM View Post

Great to hear so many testimonials about 4 ohm speakers. I'm going to pick up my SC-05 on Monday and I have 4 ohm MB Quart QLS 1030 tower and 530 center. Granted, they're being driven quite well by my current Pioneer VSX-03TXH which is also not rated for 4 ohm, so I guess I shouldn't worry, since theoretically the SC-05 is a step up. But since the 03 uses traditional amps and the 05 uses ICE amps I didn't know if this would present a problem.

One remaining concern
Is the PS3 pass through to the SC-05 a known problem? I ask because my PS3 is passing through my VSX-03TXH with nary an issue (other than the occasional HDMI handshake dropout when transitioning between FBI warnings to trailers to the main menu). I'd like to think the HDMI passthrough implementation for the SC-05 is similar/the same to the 03TXH since they're the same generation from Pioneer (2008 line) and that I won't have a problem. But now I'm starting to get worried based on a few responses over the last few pages.


I have not had any passthrough issues with the 05 and PS3, I had the FBI warning issue, but that went away when I upgraded my display.

Juan

My HT
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post #8419 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahd View Post

I am considering using a mini to optical cable from an Apple Airport Express to the SC-05. Has anyone used an Airport Express to send iTunes music from a Mac to the SC-05 and were there any issues? Thanks

yes, i do. or more correctly, i did when i first set mine up, i'm using an appletv now.

no, there aren't. works just fine.

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #8420 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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To add even more detail, here's how contenj did it, sarahd
because he's a bit modest:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

..........................
plug airport express into wall.
run optical cable from airport express to sc-05.
join your airport express to your wireless network (it even plays nice with wpa2 encryption).
fire up itunes.
at the bottom right of the itunes screen, it'll give you a dropdown box to pick where to send the stream (computer/airport express).
and away you go. so easy, even an old guy like me can do it.

i use both an appletv and 2 airport expresses to stream to 3 different locations in my house. works great. appletv is an even better option if you have an iphone/itouch, because then you don't even need the laptop in the equation. just sync your library to the appletv, and it functions perfectly as a jukebox.


"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #8421 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 11:39 AM
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lol...

actually, it's because i had forgotten where i had posted that...

sarahd, once you get around to setting it up, drop me a pm if you run into any issues along the way...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #8422 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 12:07 PM
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ot, but wasn't somebody in here looking for a pio 59avi last week?

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #8423 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post

No, the 1600 set at 480p will do a better job than having the receiver covert it to 1080i. You might want to try the Panny 80K at 1080i though and see how it does. The 1600 is a really great 480p player though and probably your best bet.

I had a Denon 1600 and sold if off for a Denon 2200. I still use the 2200 for SD DVD's Both are excellent for 480i and 480p. Then again, I still have a Sony CRT RPTV Long live the CRT!!

Panny TC-P65VT60 (calibrated by Chad B), Denon AVR-4311, Comcast X1 DVR, Apple TV 3, Sony BDP-S5100,  Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers (mains), Horizon (CC) and HTM-200's (Surr), Dual PSA XV15 Subwoofers!!
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post #8424 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Whoa, thanks!, ccotenj
Sent PM, patiently awaiting...... Then's there just one more thing

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #8425 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 12:43 PM
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I connected my new 07 just now and ran advanced MCACC after setting my speakers to small. I told it to keep SP setting and away she went. After she was done, I checked all the settings...speakers small, crossover 80hz, distances looked fine but then I noticed that it set my channel level for the sub to -5.5db. My VSX92 never did that and I ran MCACC numerous times on it. Anyone know why she set it so low? Should I change it?

I haven't had time to put it through many paces but I can tell already that I can amp up the sound quite easily and not get any harshness that I experienced with the 92. Is it a noticeable difference? Yes. Night and day? Probably not. The 92 is a great receiver but it's getting moved to the living room after the great deal I got on the 07.
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post #8426 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
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What are you looking to upgrade? Is there something specific that an update would solve?

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Originally Posted by Cattledog View Post

There's nothing to upgrade.

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Originally Posted by dgbarar View Post

What's to upgrade? Just about everything works that needs to.

But your thinking is not atypical. I had the same thoughts. Last year I purchased a Denon 3808CI becuase of its "so-called" firmware updates over the internet. Unfortunately, Denon was never able to come up with a firmware upgrade that eliminated AV dropouts with my Sony XBR4. Worse yet, Denon would not even acknowledge the problem. I went through two 3808CI and finally took them back to BB for refund. So much for upgrades.

Don

If you owned an Onkyo 805 as I do, you would know exactly what I am talking about. There is an entire thread devoted to upgrading the firmware on the 805.

I purchased the 805 when it had firmware version 1.0. The last I checked it was up to something like 1.8 or 9. Because I have version 1.0, you need a special dongle to perform the update. Because of that, I have not bothered. Also, the 805 DSP's required updating. That I was able to do.

I have no idea what may need updating in regards to the firmware now or in the future. The question was in regards to what might need to be updated. There is some sort of update in regards to the IPodtouch, I believe. So, if that is true, updates do happen.

So, I thank you for your helpful responses. I have decided to go ahead and purchase an SC-07.

Regards,

Steve
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post #8427 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 01:26 PM
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Does the receiver have an early build date and was this an eBay or grey market purchase? Just curios.
Best regards,
Ray

I bought them from the "where to buy" dealer shown for my zip code on the pioneer website. The SC-05 was built in December '08 and the SC-07 was built in September '08. Something I just rembered is that as the 05 lost audio, the phase control light was blinking which I thought was strange. Now I remember that when I asked the sales guy to open the box yesterday of the 07 and do a quick sound check (they plugged in a CD player) so I would see that the unit was OK, another guy that worked there who was helping him out commented to the salesman that the blinking phase control light "worried him" or something along those lines. I can't believe I didn't pick up on that at the time! I was focused on making sure it produced audio from a digital input at the time. Now I see the manual on page 112 says "this receiver may have a serious problem. Disconnect from power and call a Pioneer authorized independent service company". Unless the stress of this is causing me to hear imaginary voices, it proves that the 07 was already starting to malfunction before I even brought it home! Another thought I had is that here in michigan we had about the coldest winter on record. Do you think if these units were tranported, handled or stored in sub-zero temperatures it could explain two failures? I should mention that I have a PS3 and Oppo DV-980H DVD/SACD/DVD-A player hooked up with near new cables. From the receiver I run an HDMI cable to my Sony KDL-40XBR4 LCD screen. Both the PS3 and Oppo work fine when connected directly to the TV. I also have my low def (for now) cable passing thru my VCR which I use as my channel changing method. This VCR has S-video out that I run (with RCA L/R sound) to the TV/SAT input. I also run a XM portable that's in a cradle thru the analog CDinputon the receiver. Again, all analog sources work when receiver is set to Pure Direct. Also the 5.1 multi channel SACD/DVD-A coming from the Oppo sounds better than I ever imagined my Eosone speakers could sound. Any help from you guys would be GREATLY appreciated.
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post #8428 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Milkdudd;
From what you are saying they sold you a defective unit. The blue light flashing can indicate the amps are blown (assuming your speaker wires aren't touching)...
You should be able to return it, either for your money back or a new one...
Quote:


another guy that worked there who was helping him out commented to the salesman that the blinking phase control light "worried him"


"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #8429 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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contenj

Much mucho very appreciated!!

Looks like I'm gonna be getting a new toy.

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #8430 of 17105 Old 04-30-2009, 02:02 PM
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lol...

actually, it's because i had forgotten where i had posted that...

sarahd, once you get around to setting it up, drop me a pm if you run into any issues along the way...

I recieved my monoprice optical/mini cable today at lunch. Connected the cables and changed the iTunes settings and it worked like a gem. Thanks for the assistance!
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