Official Pioneer SC-05 and SC-07 Owners Thread - Page 381 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-12-2009, 09:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eldithomaso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: So. California
Posts: 1,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mejifair View Post

Hi all,

Just bought an SC-05 last week when BBY was discontinuing them. VERY happy with it so far (even using my old speakers...could immediately tell a different from my Yamaha receiver).

However - I am trying to figure out what is wrong with my LFE setting. When I enable the "plus" in the manual speaker setup, and switch my sub to LFE I get the full spectrum of frequencies through my sub, not just the below 80HZ that the default is set at.

Does anybody have any ideas why? I am baffled, and want to use the .1 channel for the sub versus having it inline with the mains and manually setting the crossover.

TIA,

Erik

Erik:

Start with Post 1 in this thread and then 11383 (page 380).

Do you have your front speakers set to large?

Simple answer is that "Large" Front speakers and the "plus" setting directs all frequencies to the sub - there is no crossover in effect - you must use the SUB's crossover. Combine this with your SW setting change to "LFE" disables the sub's crossover.

Again PLUS - entirely bypasses the receiver's Low Pass Filter if your mains are set to large. If you set the receiver to use SW "YES" you get ONLY the bass redirected from the front speakers in accord with the receiver's crossover settings (none).

So setting front to large and SW to PLUS = full range to all speakers and to sub. It disables all crossover settings for those three speakers.

But, setting the Fronts to Large and SW to Yes - gives NO sub output.
If you want front large and LFE to the sub you have to: 1) set the fronts to large; AND 2) use the Crossover on the sub to select your desired frequency cutoff.

Why do you want to use plus without your sub's built in crossover?

Isn't it time someone promoted quality as value?
eldithomaso is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-12-2009, 09:31 PM
Advanced Member
 
kenshin-dono's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

MCACC automatically set's it's own volume level so that the test tones are ~75dB. It doesn't matter what the volume was when you started. As part of its process, it adjusts the overall volume compared to 0 based on your speakers and room. There is no need to change anything. If you want it louder, turn up the volume. The numbers on the front panel display are useful for reference, but nothing to worry about, and they have no affect on the receiver's performance.

really? because i do not like the settings it gave me. it was way too quiet. even when i cranked it up to 18 or so. When i was testing it before gunshots and stuff in games were way louder and crisper, after macc it was quite quiet even cranked up afterwards

i looked at the db ratings and it had some stuff cranked down to like -9.5 db, isn't that way too low?

im pretty unimpressed with the default auto macc, im thinking i did something wrong but i just set it going and put the mic on the headrest of my chair. you sure volume doesn't matter?
kenshin-dono is offline  
Old 07-12-2009, 09:58 PM
Member
 
msilverz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by msilverz View Post

I have an old Sony SACD changer connected to my new SC-07 via the analog multichannel inputs. Am I right that when the multichannel inputs are selected, the SC-07 forgoes all MCACC processing? That's how I'm reading the footnote on p. 63 of the Operating Instructions, but I don't think said footnote is entirely clear.

Now that I've played around with the receiver a bit more, I'm less sure. Even when the multichannel inputs are selected, hitting the "Audio Parameters" button on the remote does bring up the choice of one's various MCACC settings in memory. Does this mean that the SC-07 can apply MCACC processing to a 5.1 SACD signal sent over the multichannel analog inputs? Anyone?

Thanks!

Matty
msilverz is offline  
Old 07-12-2009, 10:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
kenshin-dono's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
note: with the default settings after mcacc i cant even hear anything untill its cranked up to the 20's. that sounds really odd to me, is that right? my old pioneer that would have been WAY loud. about 40ish to 30ish is where i played in the eavning here thats nothing. its gotta be around 10 to be decently loud
kenshin-dono is offline  
Old 07-12-2009, 11:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
eldithomaso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: So. California
Posts: 1,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshin-dono View Post

note: with the default settings after mcacc i cant even hear anything untill its cranked up to the 20's. that sounds really odd to me, is that right? my old pioneer that would have been WAY loud. about 40ish to 30ish is where i played in the eavning here thats nothing. its gotta be around 10 to be decently loud

With my SC-07 I am at -24 to -22 for TV Dolby Digital 5.1 sources
and -20 to -15 for most movies (Dolby True HD/DTS-HD MA via BD)

-10 is very very very loud - near painful on dynamic scenes

Isn't it time someone promoted quality as value?
eldithomaso is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 05:53 AM
Advanced Member
 
info_dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Montreal south shore, QC
Posts: 850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

I could use a different input - I was just wondering. I bet the AVR looks for the digital signal first, then analog. When I finally get the Oppo, I'll try it.

The AVR behavior is dependent on the "Signal Sel" parameter, with the button located on the remote (under the sliding door). See p.38 of the manual:

Quote:


Press SIGNAL SEL (SIGNAL SELECT) to select the input signal corresponding to the source component.
Each press cycles through the options as follows:
AUTO - This is the default setting. The receiver selects the first available signal in the following order: HDMI; DIGITAL; ANALOG.
ANALOG - Selects an analog signal.
DIGITAL - Selects an optical or coaxial digital signal.

Dan.
info_dan is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 06:08 AM
Member
 
niez57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I set up my new 05 yesterday and have been very impressed. I haven't done much "playing" with all the settings yet but my speakers sounds fantastic! Even my wife came downstairs and told me how great they sound. I am running the 05 with a pair of B&W Bookshelf speakers, that will be upgraded to a 5.1 system soon.
niez57 is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 08:21 AM
Member
 
mejifair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

Erik:

Start with Post 1 in this thread and then 11383 (page 380).

Do you have your front speakers set to large?

Simple answer is that "Large" Front speakers and the "plus" setting directs all frequencies to the sub - there is no crossover in effect - you must use the SUB's crossover. Combine this with your SW setting change to "LFE" disables the sub's crossover.

Again PLUS - entirely bypasses the receiver's Low Pass Filter if your mains are set to large. If you set the receiver to use SW "YES" you get ONLY the bass redirected from the front speakers in accord with the receiver's crossover settings (none).

So setting front to large and SW to PLUS = full range to all speakers and to sub. It disables all crossover settings for those three speakers.

But, setting the Fronts to Large and SW to Yes - gives NO sub output.
If you want front large and LFE to the sub you have to: 1) set the fronts to large; AND 2) use the Crossover on the sub to select your desired frequency cutoff.

Why do you want to use plus without your sub's built in crossover?


Thanks for the reply. I started reading from post 1 and realized that I would probably never make it to the end because posts would be added faster than I could read! What a great repository of information!

My sub (older JBL) does not appear to have a crossover selection when the sub is set to LFE. When I switch it to LFE and play around with the crossover nothing happens.

Why would I want to use the subs built in crossover anyways if I am relying on the receiver to output only the low frequencies to the sub channel? That seems counter intuitive to the .1 in 5.1 and 7.1.

So - what you are saying is that if I don't want to use the built in crossover of the sub, than I should set my front speakers to small and the SW to Yes or Plus? Will the crossover setting then be controlling what is sent to the sub? (80HZ and below)?

Thanks,

Erik
mejifair is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 08:56 AM
Member
 
snownut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pontypool, ON
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

I'm with Mac on this. From the few (OK, once) times I've tried to run at "0", my ears gave out before the SC did.

I measured ~120 db at -5 on the SC one time. I should have measured SPL the brief time I had mine at "0".

Isn't reference 105db? Wouldn't that mean that "0" should produce 105db?

SnowNut
snownut is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:03 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by snownut View Post

Isn't reference 105db? Wouldn't that mean that "0" should produce 105db?

god no... most avr's calibrate to either 75 or 80db... 80db is quite loud...

105db is REALLY LOUD...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
graphicguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ohio Valley
Posts: 3,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by snownut View Post

Isn't reference 105db? Wouldn't that mean that "0" should produce 105db?

Maybe if I turn my sub "off" then you could be correct (MAYBE). I've got my sub running a bit hot. That's at least partly the reason I hit the SPL I did, at that setting.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
graphicguy is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
graphicguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ohio Valley
Posts: 3,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshin-dono View Post

note: with the default settings after mcacc i cant even hear anything untill its cranked up to the 20's. that sounds really odd to me, is that right? my old pioneer that would have been WAY loud. about 40ish to 30ish is where i played in the eavning here thats nothing. its gotta be around 10 to be decently loud

There is no correlation between the vol reading on the SC and actual SPL. The scale will change from setup-to-setup, and even swapping out different AVRs. They all seem to have different scales.

I know the scale was different coming from my former Elite 59 TXi to the SC 05. And, the scale was different when I had a Marantz AVR in my system, too.

-20 on one AVR will not equate to the same SPL as -20 in another one....even from model to model, within the same manufacturer's product range. Rooms are different. Associated equipment is different. Even some DVDs and BDs are mastered differently. I love Chris Botti's new 7.1 Dolby True HD concert disk. It's mastered a bit on the low side. I play it at right around -12 on the SC's vol scale.

To get similar SPL on a movie....like THE HULK, I won't play it much above....-18 on the SC's vol scale, because the sonic cannon scenes are just too loud for my taste at anything above that.

Another case in point, my PS3 seems to play louder than my BDP51 on the same material. Different source....different results.

Nothing wrong with having -10 on your vol scale if that's where you like it. It just won't correlate to anything you had previously in your system.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
graphicguy is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
CHP_VR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newport Zoo
Posts: 3,287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

Much of my response has already been covered, but I'll reinforce what graphicguy and Perpendicular have said. After I posted previously, it occurred to me that I should have asked if you were using the "Plus" (aka "double bass") setting, as that would account for the exact symptoms you are describing.

There is no way to bypass the AVR's crossover if you intend to use the dedicated sub output. Some subs are designed so you can wire them to the amp's R/L speaker outputs, then from the sub to the mains, which accommodates using the sub's crossover rather than the AVR's, but this isn't the best choice for most people.

Pioneer seems to be an advocate of the 80Hz crossover, and appears to have included the 50Hz crossover primarily to accommodate 2.1 music systems with large bookshelf or floorstanding speakers. Manufacturer's claims to the contrary, the vast majority of these begin to roll off in the 40's, so a 50Hz crossover is ideally suited to these systems. Higher than 80Hz crossovers accommodate those small satellite speakers that need them. 60Hz and 70Hz crossovers are more useful for marketing than any practical use. Most people are much better served by using 80Hz, which has become the de facto industry standard.

Regarding the several comments about "losing" LFE: LFE is a separate channel (the .1 part of 5.1/7.1). There usually is bass in that channel that is not anywhere else. If a subwoofer is connected the the system, LFE bass goes to the sub and nowhere else.

There is also bass in all the other channels. If any other speaker is set to "Large," the bass encoded in its channel stays in that channel. It is not redirected to the sub unless the "Plus" setting is used. The "Plus" setting sends main channel bass to the sub (as well as to the mains), but it does not send LFE to the main speakers. The only way LFE is directed to the mains is if the mains are "Large" and the sub is "No/Off". In this case, all bass that would otherwise be directed to the sub goes to the "Large" speakers.

All bass below the crossover point is redirected to the sub from any speaker set to "Small." Bass that is redirected to the sub from "Small" channels is mixed with the LFE bass by the AVR, then the parts below the crossover is sent to the sub. Dolby's LFE standard calls for a digital filter at 120Hz. In practice, most sound engineers roll off the LFE signal at ~ 80Hz. THX adopted that frequency as their standard, and the industry has pretty much followed suit. So there is almost always 50-80Hz material in any source containing an LFE, and this is removed by the 50Hz crossover.

These frequencies may also be in the main channels. This is at the producer's sole discretion, and cannot be predicted. When it's there, you are less likely to miss the frequencies cut off by a low LFE crossover, but you still won't be hearing what the producer intended (which would be bass from both).

Two channel sources, of course, have no LFE, so all the bass is on the R/L channels, which is why many people wonder why they hear no bass in their subs when playing CD's through "Large" speakers. Some people "solve" this "problem" by using the "Plus" setting, which always brings to my mind this post by an Audyssey representative:

In two channel, you will always get "double bass" with the "Plus" setting, so the bass response will never be accurate, and usually sound boomy in the part of the bass spectrum above the mains' roll off point. Of course, some people prefer that sound.

Macfan,
Thanks again for taking the time and effort to put all this together.

Added to front page with "General Subwoofer settings"

graphicguy.. had to remove link to "bossobass"..
"detailed setup guide by Bossobass" really wished I had copied it...av123forum is no longer available

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
CHP_VR is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
graphicguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ohio Valley
Posts: 3,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
CHP....thanks for the hard work. I wished I would have copied "bossobass's set up guide. I've got it in paper format. Maybe I'll scan it and see if I can do a link.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
graphicguy is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
CHP_VR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newport Zoo
Posts: 3,287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Cool, graphicguy! that would be great!

I don't think there would be any copy write issues or problems doing that, as far as I know..

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
CHP_VR is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:50 AM
Member
 
vettett15's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

Erik:

Start with Post 1 in this thread and then 11383 (page 380).

Do you have your front speakers set to large?

Simple answer is that "Large" Front speakers and the "plus" setting directs all frequencies to the sub - there is no crossover in effect - you must use the SUB's crossover. Combine this with your SW setting change to "LFE" disables the sub's crossover.

Again PLUS - entirely bypasses the receiver's Low Pass Filter if your mains are set to large. If you set the receiver to use SW "YES" you get ONLY the bass redirected from the front speakers in accord with the receiver's crossover settings (none).

So setting front to large and SW to PLUS = full range to all speakers and to sub. It disables all crossover settings for those three speakers.

But, setting the Fronts to Large and SW to Yes - gives NO sub output.
If you want front large and LFE to the sub you have to: 1) set the fronts to large; AND 2) use the Crossover on the sub to select your desired frequency cutoff.

Do you mean here that having the fronts set to large and the SW to Yes gives no sub output unless the source has a .1 channel? If you had the fronts to large and the SW to plus and didn't have any crossovers activated then you would just be sending a full range signal to the SW and it would play what it could play right?

[/quote]
vettett15 is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:57 AM
Member
 
snownut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pontypool, ON
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

god no... most avr's calibrate to either 75 or 80db... 80db is quite loud...

105db is REALLY LOUD...

But "0" on your deck is far louder than 75 or 80db.

I may be confused here, form what I understand, 75 or 80 db is what you use to calibrate to reference levels. But reference is 105db. It is loud. I know mine is 105 at reference level, which is "0" on your deck.

SnowNut
snownut is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 10:05 AM
Advanced Member
 
MrMcGoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by dm233 View Post

flashing red MCACC light amp error

Had this happen to me on a barely 3 month old sc-07 and after reading all the posts in the forum on the issue was a bit dismayed on the way to resolve it by sending it in for service...

so after some research and digging into the issue the error is from a failure in the amp block or high DC output is detected during a power-on sequence after high DC output was once detected, "AMP ERR" appears on the display and the MCACC light starts flashing and the receiver's shutdown process will start

use at your own risk, as i am not a qualified/trained service tech, nor do i pretend to be one, but information wants to be free... this may or may not work in all situations and may even damage the components further... may void your warranty in addition to any other legal disclaimer that may apply here...

you can "release" the error by pressing the "down arrow" and the "zone 2 on/off" for 2 seconds

if the error comes back then more than likely the amp block has failed and it will need to be replaced/serviced.

with my issue the release corrected the issue and amp started up fine. again, one's own mileage may vary and may damage the components further. It is a protection circuit after all.

there's also a way to see how many protection events have happened for the various components in the service menu so its possible to see where the larger issue may be. havent had a chance to dig into yet. but there are counts for DC, temp and power supply events to aid in diagnosing problems by a trained professional...

I've tried this procedure after an electrical storm gave me the flashing MCACC light. In short, this procedure worked instantly for me.

Bill
MrMcGoo is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 10:15 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by snownut View Post

But "0" on your deck is far louder than 75 or 80db.

I may be confused here, form what I understand, 75 or 80 db is what you use to calibrate to reference levels. But reference is 105db. It is loud. I know mine is 105 at reference level, which is "0" on your deck.

you are talking about 2 different things...

- calibration to "reference level" with pink noise will result in that "reference level" spl when playing pink noise... this will be 75 or 80db, depending on the avr... what you are really trying to do here is get all your speakers "equal"...

- nope, 105db is NOT "0" on the deck. what you get for an spl reading when playing "real sounds" (i.e. not pink noise) depends entirely on the dynamics of the music/movie being played... it could be 105db... heck, it could be more... it could be a lot less...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 10:18 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

CHP....thanks for the hard work. I wished I would have copied "bossobass's set up guide. I've got it in paper format. Maybe I'll scan it and see if I can do a link.

maybe if we ask him nice bosso will give us an electronic copy...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 10:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
graphicguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ohio Valley
Posts: 3,646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

maybe if we ask him nice bosso will give us an electronic copy...

Chris....that's exactly what I was thinking.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
graphicguy is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 12:38 PM
Member
 
versicolor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

Ok. You need to use another setting.
First, I would recommend turning S.RTVR off for sure. I don't care how much it seems to "expand" your soundstage. It is doing very wrong things to CD encoded PCM streams.

Second, open the manual and turn to page (turn off the "Expanded" sound field setting and try these other options):
a) 35 - try your CD sources with Dolby Pro Logic IIx Music turned on
is that better?
b) 36 - try the alternative Neural THX Music - is that better?
c) 36 - try the alternative NEO 6 Music - is that better?


Are your speakers toed in?
Are you sitting in a very very narrow sweet spot?

If those options stink then I suggest you try "Panorama" mode. See page 96
BUT NOTE you have to use it with a Dolby Pro Logic II or IIx Music mode for two channel audio sources.

Ok I'll try all of your suggestions and report back. I had a setting on my Yamaha that was called 7 channel stereo. That was my setting of choice for cd playback because it output sound from all of my speakers as opposed to just the front two and the sub. I really liked that setting so thats why I like using the expanded stereo setting. I will definately try your suggestions. thanks for helping.
versicolor is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 01:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Macfan424's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

maybe if we ask him nice bosso will give us an electronic copy...

Good idea. I was sure I had downloaded those a long time ago, but I can't seem to find them. I'll try a few more searches later.

In the meantime, FWIW, I did find a quick subwoofer troubleshooting checklist I put together once:

AVR:

1. All speakers: Small.

2. Crossover: 80 Hz.

3. Subwoofer: Yes/On. (Not "Plus" if you want accurate bass.)

4. Midnight Mode: Off/No.

5. LFE Attenuation: 0 (not Off, which turns off the LFE channel all together, or -5, -10, etc, unless your subwoofer needs protection from overloads.)

6. Subwoofer channel level control at -5 to 0 after MCACC.


DVD/BD Player:

1. Output set to bitstream if AVR decoding is desired. Otherwise, be sure the player can properly decode the material you want to play. Some players down-convert to two channel when set to PCM. (Note: PS3's do not bitstream HD audio codecs.)

2. Midnight Mode: Off/No.

3. HDMI audio: On (if being used).

4. Audio format desired is selected on disc being played.

Subwoofer:

1. Amp gain control lower than 12:00 (in larger rooms, there may have to be compromises to balance this against LFE channel control recommendations, above).

2. Experiment with subwoofer location and listening positions: There could be a null which which is robbing the bass of impact and dynamics or a node which is creating a "boomy" sound at certain frequencies.

Miscellaneous:

1. Verify that subwoofer is connected to Subwoofer jack in the Pre Amp Out section of the receiver, not the similar looking Multi Ch In section.

2. Try different source material. Some music, older movies and TV shows do not contain low bass information to send to the subwoofer.
Macfan424 is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 01:25 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by versicolor View Post

Ok I'll try all of your suggestions and report back. I had a setting on my Yamaha that was called 7 channel stereo. That was my setting of choice for cd playback because it output sound from all of my speakers as opposed to just the front two and the sub

well... i think we are narrowing down the "problem" here then... you are confusing "expansive soundstage" with "music coming from all directions"... because frankly, in 7 channel stereo, you don't have a soundstage, you just have noise... if you like the way it sounds, that's all that matters... but (and take this the right way), when you are asking questions, it would be helpful if you included information like this in your post...

fwiw, that setting exists on your pio as well...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 01:26 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
that's a good succinct guide macfan...

charles, you know what to do...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
CHP_VR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newport Zoo
Posts: 3,287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

that's a good succinct guide macfan...

charles, you know what to do...

What?

You mean:

 
-Quickstart Speaker setup - MacFan

Ok.. done

BTW, thanks again MacFan!

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
CHP_VR is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 02:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
kenshin-dono's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 806
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

There is no correlation between the vol reading on the SC and actual SPL. The scale will change from setup-to-setup, and even swapping out different AVRs. They all seem to have different scales.

I know the scale was different coming from my former Elite 59 TXi to the SC 05. And, the scale was different when I had a Marantz AVR in my system, too.

-20 on one AVR will not equate to the same SPL as -20 in another one....even from model to model, within the same manufacturer's product range. Rooms are different. Associated equipment is different. Even some DVDs and BDs are mastered differently. I love Chris Botti's new 7.1 Dolby True HD concert disk. It's mastered a bit on the low side. I play it at right around -12 on the SC's vol scale.

To get similar SPL on a movie....like THE HULK, I won't play it much above....-18 on the SC's vol scale, because the sonic cannon scenes are just too loud for my taste at anything above that.

Another case in point, my PS3 seems to play louder than my BDP51 on the same material. Different source....different results.

Nothing wrong with having -10 on your vol scale if that's where you like it. It just won't correlate to anything you had previously in your system.

really? thats so odd to me. Like i said at about 30 i can barely even hear it, worse after calibration. So your saying that about 3/4 of the volume scale on this reciever is utterly worthless? o_O

the part im having a hard time getting around is when i check after the MACC setup it has some stuff cranked down like -9db or so. Isn't that way too low? It has the distance right for the speakers but i think the fact that it jacks that down so far is why it sounds so quiet and dull to me. I.e. i would test guns in fallout 3 with the out of box setup, and a -25 would be louder than a -10 on that setup without the db being adjusted in MACC. Even at 10 or so after calibration it still doesn't sound quite as loud and crisp as around 25 regularly.

your saying this is normal? even it bringing the DB rating so low?

if i really dont like it is there a way to lock in teh DB rating and then just auto calibrate the stuff i cant do myself like the wave graphs i dont understand or that screen with all the sliders on it? what do those even do? balance out the acoustics?

Note there is one thing that may be throwing this off, i dont have my dedicated sub in yet. im just using the built in ones on my towers right now with sub set to off. could that be an issue?


really just hung up on the fact that its cranking the db rating so low. it seems excessive and makes everything very low

oh and btw this is in a bedroom that about 18.5X13.4, 5.1 setup, missing the .1 at the momment. towers set to large, center and rears small sw no
kenshin-dono is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 02:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Macfan424's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshin-dono View Post

really? because i do not like the settings it gave me. it was way too quiet. even when i cranked it up to 18 or so. When i was testing it before gunshots and stuff in games were way louder and crisper, after macc it was quite quiet even cranked up afterwards

i looked at the db ratings and it had some stuff cranked down to like -9.5 db, isn't that way too low?

im pretty unimpressed with the default auto macc, im thinking i did something wrong but i just set it going and put the mic on the headrest of my chair. you sure volume doesn't matter?

Sorry I missed this earlier, although graphicguy certainly covered it.

MCACC does attempt to normalize SPL's so that the same volume setting will produce about the same dB level at the seating position for all users. You'll find most of us here are usually in the -15 to -25 range, depending on source material. But a few like it much louder, so there are some here who run in the -5 range. (And many spouses insist that it be lower. ) That has nothing to do with MCACC; it's just personal choice.

All of MCACC adjustments are room, speaker and position sensitive, so it gives all of us different adjustment. A -9.5dB correction for "some stuff" is unusual, but not unheard of, and is based on your specific setup.

And, yes, I'm sure initial volume settings don't matter. If you watch carefully, you'll see the receiver run up the volume level to where MCACC wants it before MCACC sends out any test tones. If you listen, you'll hear it adjust the tones until they are ~ 75dB at the mic before it starts to balance and EQ.

As graphicguy and I have both said, the numbers on the display have no great meaning. There is no industry standard for what they are supposed to signify. They absolutely do not correlate with those reported by other brands or even earlier Pioneer models.

As I said before, if it isn't loud enough for you, turn up the volume until it is.
Macfan424 is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 03:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Macfan424's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshin-dono View Post

...So your saying that about 3/4 of the volume scale on this reciever is utterly worthless?...

That may be overstating things, but it's not far from true. But it's been that way to some degree on every preamp or receiver I've ever owned or set up for someone else. And that's been dozens over decades.

Quote:


if i really dont like it is there a way to lock in teh DB rating...

Not really. There are some hokey ways to adjust the controls so the front panel readouts show a lower number for the same output, but I'm not going to get into them, as they are just audio masturbation.

It sounds to me like you prefer the coloration of your speakers/room better than a flat response. Maybe you should try the Front Speaker Align setting.

But before doing anything else, I'd run MCACC again. Every once in a while something happens to cause an anomalous setting. If the second try produces the same results, at least you will have eliminated that possibility.

Quote:


Note there is one thing that may be throwing this off, i dont have my dedicated sub in yet. im just using the built in ones on my towers right now with sub set to off. could that be an issue?

No.

One possible issue is the nature of bi-polar speakers. It has been mentioned by some owners in conjunction with Audyssey. However, I don't recall DefTech owners mentioning that problem with MCACC. I use omni-polars as surrounds, and MCACC has been brilliant with them.

Quote:


really just hung up on the fact that its cranking the db rating so low...

Yep. Once again, it doesn't mean anything, so don't worry about it.
Macfan424 is offline  
Old 07-13-2009, 04:03 PM
Member
 
versicolor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

well... i think we are narrowing down the "problem" here then... you are confusing "expansive soundstage" with "music coming from all directions"... because frankly, in 7 channel stereo, you don't have a soundstage, you just have noise... if you like the way it sounds, that's all that matters... but (and take this the right way), when you are asking questions, it would be helpful if you included information like this in your post...

fwiw, that setting exists on your pio as well...

Well, I tried all of the suggestions from eldithomaso. Everything sounds pretty good but extended stereo sounds the best to me and the most similar to the 7 channel stereo setting from my Yamaha. The faint distortion sound I was hearing on the guitars is only present with the S.RTVR setting turned ON. So that will remain off for all of my cd playback. Thanks for the guidance and advice. I really am having fun messing with this thing. I'm one of those guys that loves to play with the adjustments and settings and there are definately enough of them on this unit to keep me busy for awhile. Next up is a new subwoofer. I'm assuming i'll need to run the auto cal again after I get it?
versicolor is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off