Official Pioneer SC-05 and SC-07 Owners Thread - Page 453 - AVS Forum
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post #13561 of 17107 Old 09-11-2009, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

If anyone is interested I just received my Integra DPS-6.9 DVD-A/SACD/DVD player.

I will be posting a review of it versus the Pioneer DV-58AV with the SC-07
for DVD-A and SACD (DSD) over HDMI later this weekend.
( More for CHP_VR to fit on the front page...)

Eldithomaso, have you tried the analog output on the DV-58AV? I have mine paired with an SC-05. I used a DV-48AV over HDMI, but decided to go with the '58 for the better build quality and its well-regarded analog output stage. I'd be interested to hear which you prefer. It sounds like you'll be busy this weekend with the new Integra, and I'm looking forward to the review.

Also, I want to thank everyone in this thread for all the great advice and ideas that get tossed around. I am entering my second month with the SC-05, along with the DV-58AV and a BDP-23FD, driving PSB Image speakers. I managed to find one of the Best Buy open box SC-05 units for a song, and loved it so much that I've already helped a friend find one for himself. There are a few left in the Chicago area that I have seen, and the pricing is very good.

I came from a Denon AVR-988 and Polk Monitor speakers, and while I definitely enjoyed that setup, I feel like the sound with the SC-05 is in another league. I'm looking forward to a few years with these ICE amps (at least until upgraditis hits, although anything new will have to look as good as the SC-05).

Thanks, everyone! I hope that I can contribute something to this community that has been so helpful to me.
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post #13562 of 17107 Old 09-11-2009, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpeteyguy View Post

Eldithomaso, have you tried the analog output on the DV-58AV? I have mine paired with an SC-05. I used a DV-48AV over HDMI, but decided to go with the '58 for the better build quality and its well-regarded analog output stage. I'd be interested to hear which you prefer. It sounds like you'll be busy this weekend with the new Integra, and I'm looking forward to the review.

Also, I want to thank everyone in this thread for all the great advice and ideas that get tossed around. I am entering my second month with the SC-05, along with the DV-58AV and a BDP-23FD, driving PSB Image speakers....

Thanks Mr. Petey:

I have distance constraints, and prefer the newer DACS in the SC-07 -- with my HDMI control simplicity for the wife -- so no analogs for me.

So far the 58AV has a far superior build quality. Weighs more. Front panel is more substantial, top panel does not flex in (like the thin metal top cover on the Integra) and while it lacks some features like dual SVHS, Composite, one component and one BNC component and an RS232 connection, I am expecting the DV-58AV to be the superior performer with its superior specs.

I have to let the Integra break in, since the 58AV already is, for a real comparison.

Off to play some music.

UPDATE (early observations):

Menus:
So far the menus on the Integra are superior. Much more informative as they display more information and the bitrates of the material presented. +1 Integra.

Temps:
The unit gets HOT! I am not used to my Pioneer transports getting so warm. I am not sure why it does this (since it is in its own cabinet on another player that is not operating and there are no other heat sources nearby) but when it spits the discs out after about 1.1 hours of playback they are quite warm. +1 pioneer

Load/Unload:
As a transport it is good but it still seems that that Pioneer is a superior piece. Better tray movement and better sounds opening and closing. +1 Pioneer

Responsiveness:
So far they both seem equally responsive, with perhaps an edge to the Integra as to remote commands that it executes via its transport a tad bit faster.

Displays:
The Integra has an old fashion red standby light and the blue display to match other componets. It's more readable than the Pioneer by far from the same distance.

Sound wise I've got more listening to do. So far with DVD-A only not a significant difference if any.

Both work quite well with the SC-07 though. You probably could not go wrong with either via HDMI 1.2a if you want SACD/DVD-A and HDMI control.

Isn't it time someone promoted quality as value?
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post #13563 of 17107 Old 09-12-2009, 04:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

jfoulks:

I have the SC-07 and an Integra DTR 8.8 (A/B Amp with toroidial power supply). If you can find the similar unit with that toroidial power supply in the new Integra lineup (usually only their highest end receiver has it) I have little doubt it will be audibly superior to the SC-07 but not by a HUGE margin.

If the SC-07 and presumably the SC-27 had better power supplies they probably would be the equal of or better than the Integra Terrordial units. My SC-09 with its far superior power supplies bests the DTR 8.8 by an audiable margin.

I am not a fan of Integra's customer support - you are on your own for updates. Firmware is a huge need for Onkyo Integra as they often release products with huge bugs and errors that are not ready for primetime. If you buy one YOU WILL NEED to spend some time learning how to update via RS232C connections and how to use the forums to find firmware that is NOT publicly acknowledged or available. Given their history there will be at least 4-5 main firmware and likey one DSP and potentially one HDMI update for each receiver for the year it is out.

The A/B amps with the better power supply will drive less efficient speakers with more ease than the SC-27 just like it does over the SC-07 but YMMV.

If you don't want to dare that you will need to take it in to a service center.

With Pioneer you don't have that issue. Generally speaking but for a few isolated issues they don't need or offer firmware updates. What few they do are usually (Since the SC series arrived) unoffically user installable like the HMG update.

Integra has one more trick up its sleeve - they offer a 3 year warranty vs the Elite's 2 year. Onkyo/Integra is also financially in a much better place than Pioneer so take that for what it's worth. The Onkyo/Integra will have a far superior SD video scaling solution.

Pioneer's ICE power is more efficient, cooler, likely to need no updates and looks better.

If you can afford a top line Integra with toroidial power supply AND:
1) don't mind being your own customer support and learning how to upgrade the units as needed for bug fixes;
2) don't mind that it generates heat like an oven when on (at least 125 or so degrees on top); and
3) want the Best SD video scaling

My vote for about $500 more would be the new top line Integra over the SC-27 (but just barely)...

I have the SC-07, and SC-09TX and an Integra DTR-8.8. The Integra rules my dedicated home theater. I think the my SC-07 would be more than adequate for that that duty but it would NOT be my first choice (even as a very very avid Pioneer guy ).

Fortunately Pioneer makes the SC-09 - I lucked out and found one for a steal thanks to CHP_VR and I didn't need to make that choice for my newest acquistion.

eldithomaso, nice post comparing Onkyo's Integra series AVRs to Pioneer.

Before I decided to purchase an SC-07, I seriously considered Denon's AVR-4308CI, Onkyo's TX-NR906 and Intregra's DTR-8.8.

Ultimately, the price & ICE amp is what swayed me towards Pioneer. However, I was dismayed to read the lukewarm rating the SC-07 received from Audioholics online A/V web site, but Pioneer's SC-25 & SC-27 have fared better.

If I had it to do over again, I believe I would still choose Pioneer over Onkyo/Integra due to price considerations, the reputation for generating extreme heat and their reported poor customer service issues.
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post #13564 of 17107 Old 09-12-2009, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Do these receivers, including the new SC-25 and 7, do the +10 boost when you send it LPCM? what exactly is it suppose to be doing, and what exactly was the problem again?

(Sorry if this issue is old, i was reading some pages in this thread from 2008)

I just got an SC-05 and just watched my first PCM 5.1 movie last night with the PS3 Slim and noticed a lack of bass from it compared to my 82 which has the firmware update to add +10 db Boost to LPCM via HDMI.

No where in the manual for the SC-05 can I find how to verify that it has this applied. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks
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post #13565 of 17107 Old 09-12-2009, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity View Post

eldithomaso, nice post comparing Onkyo's Integra series AVRs to Pioneer.

Before I decided to purchase an SC-07, I seriously considered Denon's AVR-4308CI, Onkyo's TX-NR906 and Intregra's DTR-8.8.

Ultimately, the price & ICE amp is what swayed me towards Pioneer. However, I was dismayed to read the lukewarm rating the SC-07 received from Audioholics online A/V web site, but Pioneer's SC-25 & SC-27 have fared better.

If I had it to do over again, I believe I would still choose Pioneer over Onkyo/Integra due to price considerations, the reputation for generating extreme heat and their reported poor customer service issues.

For the most part I think the Midrange SC series is great. I am not a huge fan of the dampening factor of the units or their power supplies (I don't know if that changed for the SC-25/27 though) especially for music. I am still warming up to my SC-07 with the SACD/DVD-A sources (still not my first choice for playback of same) but do find it to be quite good at reproducing most movies/TV duties.

When it comes to pure music (2.0 or 4.0 or 5.0 or 5.1) it still seems muted and less dynamic overall (even post calibration) compared to the A/B amps and range of the Integra and particularly compared to the ICE implementation in the SC-09TX. Between the SC-09TX and the SC-07 it's not a fair comparision - I know. Given the price point gap between the Integra 8.8 and the SC-07, however, I did expect a closer match and didn't get it.

Going the opposite direction down to a Denon 3xxx series and saving $400-$600 in the other direction is a sonic nightmare. That series is a good example of how a very inexpensive power supply and components can ruin a decent A/B amp. The SC-07 is miles ahead of that series (even with its average power components) and Denon's "run of the mill" general performance, flat musical performance, and only average movie/TV source reproduction (especially in a larger 2000 cubic foot space).

To me the SC-07's power supply really seems to hobble its real potential. I notice none of those issues in the SC-09TX using the same ICE techology with a different implementation. It's an entirely different beast musically. The Integra DTR 8.8 is as well - the gap is not as great but it's still significant.

I think ICE Power (Class D amps) are a fantastic value but certainly require more attention to their power supplies before they are going to supplant a well designed (though far less efficient) A/B AMP design with a good power supply backing it up. That is likely why Audioholics didn't like the original SC-07 - it's just very good musically but not the standout it could be.

We all know most 8 ohm speakers are not 8 ohms 100% of the time. Most of us don't have pure 8 ohm or easy to drive small speakers attached to our SC series.

Audioholics comment (in the first review you posted) says it all. Power supplies affect more than just </=4 ohm loads. The reviewer says the unit could be improved with ... "[b]eefier power supply capacitors and larger transformer to ensure it can better handle sustained 4-ohm loads".

Spending hours listening to some recent DVD-A discs yesterday via the Integra DPS-6.9 to the SC-07 shows that the dynamics and dampening on the SC-07 could be better. To me the power supply is what knocks it from Excellent overall sonics to just very very good music only sonics.

For those on the fence (with my prior issues for each in mind) if 80% of your time is movies and BD/DVD then the differences becomes less and less apparent at normal volume levels in a normal space (<2500 cubic feet). If you want musicality, have more demanding speakers or a larger space, and value your music over movies, then the A/B amp in the Integra (with its better power supply and component parts) is more compelling.

Each have their drawbacks but both offer some real bang for the buck. At the closeout prices we are seeing for the SC-07 the choice is much less difficult. For $1500.00 or less I would be happy to have the SC-07 over the $500-700 more expensive Integra for movies/TV and CD playback. Price them both a $2000 or so and my choice goes to the Integra despite its other issues.

For people on the fence on the newer models (9.9 vs SC-27) or even the older models for the same money - you owe it to yourselves to listen to both with movies and music. I'd throw the Denon 4xxx series in there too bit I think you will be back to the Pioneer and the Integra in the end.

Isn't it time someone promoted quality as value?
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post #13566 of 17107 Old 09-12-2009, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x64Man View Post

I just got an SC-05 and just watched my first PCM 5.1 movie last night with the PS3 Slim and noticed a lack of bass from it compared to my 82 which has the firmware update to add +10 db Boost to LPCM via HDMI.

No where in the manual for the SC-05 can I find how to verify that it has this applied. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks

X64 man:

There is no Bass boost for HDMI sources. There is a bass reduction option
- See page 97 of your manual

LFE ATT
(LFE
Attenuate)
Some Dolby Digital and DTS
audio sources include ultra-low
bass tones. Set the LFE attenuator
as necessary to prevent the ultralow
bass tones from distorting the
sound from the speakers.
The LFE is not limited when set to
0 dB, which is the recommended
value. When set to -5 dB, -10 dB,
-15 dB or -20 dB, the LFE is
limited by the respective degree.
When OFF is selected, no sound
is output from the LFE channel.
0dB
-5dB/ -10dB/
-15dB/ -20dB/
OFF

There is a +10db Bass boost for ANALOG multichannel sources (page 94):
Multi Channel Input Setup
You can adjust the level of the subwoofer for a multichannel
input. Also, when the multi-channel input is
selected as an input source, you can display the video
images of other input sources. In the Multi Channel Input
Setup, you can assign a video input to the multi-channel
input.
1 Select Multi Ch In Setup' from the Other Setup
menu.
2 Select the SW Input Gain' setting you want.
0dB - Outputs sound of the subwoofer at the level
originally recorded on the source.
+10dB - Outputs sound of the subwoofer at the level
increased by 10 dB.
3 Select the Video Input' setting you want.
When the multi-channel input is selected as an input
source, you can display the video images of other input
sources. The video input can be selected from the
following: DVD, TV/SAT, DVR 1, DVR 2, VIDEO 1, VIDEO
2, VIDEO 3, OFF.
4 When you're finished, press RETURN.
You will return to the Other Setup menu.

That won't help you with a PS3 Slim which has no analog 5.1/7.1 output option. You will have to turn your sub up for same.

What are you listening to (disc) that has PCM 5.1 and has a low LFE output?

Isn't it time someone promoted quality as value?
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post #13567 of 17107 Old 09-12-2009, 10:00 AM
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Hello,
I am quite impressed with Pioneer's ICE powered AVR's. Especially how much effort Pioneer has made to keep jitter levels as low as possible. After reading the comparisons between Pionner, Denon, Onkyo, et al levels of jitter, it really is impressive how well engineered the Pioneer's are. In fact, I am seriously considering purchasing a SC-07 or SC-27 to use as a pre-pro.

I would use the amplification, but the one weakness to the ICE modules is driving 4 ohm loads. I am running 5 channels of Martin Logan ESl Series with dual towers (Vantage/Vista). Unfortunately, these speakers go down to around 1 ohm in the upper frequencies which make an outboard amplifier almost an requirement.

However, an exceedingly small amount of speakers put these kinds of demands on amplification and the vast majority of people will get plenty of power with greatly reduced power consumption.

I have been alternating between an Integra DTC-9.8 and a Onkyo TX-SR875 as my processors. While I have been quite pleased, I am somewhat disconcerted by the jitter levels.

I realize that many do not think jitter is that important an issue. All the same, I believe it to be and want the lowest possible levels in my system.
Cheers,
AD

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What kinds of load times are people seeing for pictures when you run a slideshow? My 7MP pictures are anywhere from 2-3MB in size and they all take about 15 seconds to load. I would think it'd be faster with a 100mb connection. I'm running it just by browsing to the My Pictures folder from the HMG interface.

EDIT: Some of these 7MP pictures are taking up to 30 seconds to load.
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post #13569 of 17107 Old 09-12-2009, 04:27 PM
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So, I'm trying to connect my MAC laptop to my SC-07 so I can watch video on my HDTV. The MAC only has a DVI output so I bought a DVI-HDMI cable. I asked the gentleman at Best Buy what I would need to get audio capability, knowing that DVI doesn't carry audio signals. I was told to purchase a Mini-RCA cable to connect to my receiver. However, when I got home I realized that there is no obvious way to assign a HDMI input to an RCA audio input.

Essentially, how can I setup my receiver so I can use an HDMI input to accept video via DVI along the same "channel" as a Mini-RCA cable?
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post #13570 of 17107 Old 09-12-2009, 06:19 PM
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Has anyone took their sc-05/sc-07 apart far enough to see what those ICE amps look like? I took the cover off of mine to take a look at the innards and that big gray box is covering up all of the good stuff. All I can see through the fan is a big row of 3300 80v capacitors.
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post #13571 of 17107 Old 09-13-2009, 05:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

When it comes to pure music (2.0 or 4.0 or 5.0 or 5.1) it still seems muted and less dynamic overall (even post calibration) compared to the A/B amps and range of the Integra and particularly compared to the ICE implementation in the SC-09TX. Between the SC-09TX and the SC-07 it's not a fair comparision - I know. Given the price point gap between the Integra 8.8 and the SC-07, however, I did expect a closer match and didn't get it.

It is interesting what one learns about their HT system after he buys the equipment.

I have an SC-07 driving Aperion's Intimus 6T-DB Hybrid XD 7.1 speaker package.

Now that I own this gear I am becoming aware of its limitations: (e.g. no individual speaker crossover settings w/SC-07, Aperion's 6T speakers frequency response is rated from 36-20,000 Hz), which some audiophiles say are not best suited for 2.0 channel music because these speakers should not be set to "Large" to support the full range of sound.

Although, when I run the auto MCACC application it sets the 6Ts to large.
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post #13572 of 17107 Old 09-13-2009, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity View Post

----- SNIP -----
Although, when I run the auto MCACC application it sets the 6Ts to large.

MCACC sets your mains to large by default (on all Pioneer AVRs). You go into the manual speaker setup and manually set the 6Ts to "Small". See your manual for the details.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
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post #13573 of 17107 Old 09-13-2009, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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thomasphoenix (Tsiju)
sent and posted the following in regards to how the SC-07 (SC-LX81)and SC-05 (SC-LX71) remapping of 7.1:
Quote:
description of channel remapping I have seen.
So it turns out there is nothing wrong with our receiver showing 5.1 for 7.1 sources like Pans Labyrinth, Shoot Em Up, HellBoy 2 etc.
Original post

In addition, Tsiju PM'd me with the following:
Quote:
Another terrific piece of info from my testing.
If channel re-mapping is happening on pans labyrinth etc . You can not select thx ultra2 cinema mode which is a matrix decoding when the rear channels are not present discrete.
Thx cinema is the only setting availabe for 7.1 sources.
All my discs with dts-HD 5.1 have all the other rear matrix modes available. I think this settles it for good.
Attached is the DTS-HD Audio Consumer White Paper



Thanks for all your testing and digging up of information to share with us, Tsiju
Link added to front page
General information

 

DTS_HD_WhitePape_part1.pdf 475.7109375k . file
LL

 

DTS_HD_WhitePape_part2.pdf 479.7958984375k . file
Attached Files
File Type: pdf DTS_HD_WhitePape_part2.pdf (479.8 KB, 1 views)
File Type: pdf DTS_HD_WhitePape_part1.pdf (475.7 KB, 2 views)

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post #13574 of 17107 Old 09-13-2009, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Also made more obvious on the first page:
Resetting your AVR/Service Mode (originally under Flashing MCACC)
HGM Update

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"

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post #13575 of 17107 Old 09-13-2009, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fubarman3 View Post

So, I'm trying to connect my MAC laptop to my SC-07 so I can watch video on my HDTV. The MAC only has a DVI output so I bought a DVI-HDMI cable. I asked the gentleman at Best Buy what I would need to get audio capability, knowing that DVI doesn't carry audio signals. I was told to purchase a Mini-RCA cable to connect to my receiver. However, when I got home I realized that there is no obvious way to assign a HDMI input to an RCA audio input.

Essentially, how can I setup my receiver so I can use an HDMI input to accept video via DVI along the same "channel" as a Mini-RCA cable?

fubarman3,

I was able to connect (audio/video) my 2007 iMac to the SC-25 with a mini DVI to HDMI adapter to a HDMI to HDMI cable for video, for audio I used a toslink to mini digitial adapter (the headphone out on the iMac is also an optical digital audio out port). I've attached a link that I hope helps (cables are available in various lengths).

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...t=1#largeimage

I can't remember if I had to change an audio setting for the source input to get sound once I had the connections made (I think it was changing the audio setting to digital?). if you don't get sound right away write me back and I'll have to look at the manual on-line to see if I can remember what the setting was.

Good luck.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

For the most part I think the Midrange SC series is great. I am not a huge fan of the dampening factor of the units or their power supplies (I don't know if that changed for the SC-25/27 though) especially for music. I am still warming up to my SC-07 with the SACD/DVD-A sources (still not my first choice for playback of same) but do find it to be quite good at reproducing most movies/TV duties.

When it comes to pure music (2.0 or 4.0 or 5.0 or 5.1) it still seems muted and less dynamic overall (even post calibration) compared to the A/B amps and range of the Integra and particularly compared to the ICE implementation in the SC-09TX. Between the SC-09TX and the SC-07 it's not a fair comparision - I know. Given the price point gap between the Integra 8.8 and the SC-07, however, I did expect a closer match and didn't get it.

Going the opposite direction down to a Denon 3xxx series and saving $400-$600 in the other direction is a sonic nightmare. That series is a good example of how a very inexpensive power supply and components can ruin a decent A/B amp. The SC-07 is miles ahead of that series (even with its average power components) and Denon's "run of the mill" general performance, flat musical performance, and only average movie/TV source reproduction (especially in a larger 2000 cubic foot space).

To me the SC-07's power supply really seems to hobble its real potential. I notice none of those issues in the SC-09TX using the same ICE techology with a different implementation. It's an entirely different beast musically. The Integra DTR 8.8 is as well - the gap is not as great but it's still significant.

I think ICE Power (Class D amps) are a fantastic value but certainly require more attention to their power supplies before they are going to supplant a well designed (though far less efficient) A/B AMP design with a good power supply backing it up. That is likely why Audioholics didn't like the original SC-07 - it's just very good musically but not the standout it could be.

We all know most 8 ohm speakers are not 8 ohms 100% of the time. Most of us don't have pure 8 ohm or easy to drive small speakers attached to our SC series.

Audioholics comment (in the first review you posted) says it all. Power supplies affect more than just </=4 ohm loads. The reviewer says the unit could be improved with ... "[b]eefier power supply capacitors and larger transformer to ensure it can better handle sustained 4-ohm loads".

Spending hours listening to some recent DVD-A discs yesterday via the Integra DPS-6.9 to the SC-07 shows that the dynamics and dampening on the SC-07 could be better. To me the power supply is what knocks it from Excellent overall sonics to just very very good music only sonics.

For those on the fence (with my prior issues for each in mind) if 80% of your time is movies and BD/DVD then the differences becomes less and less apparent at normal volume levels in a normal space (<2500 cubic feet). If you want musicality, have more demanding speakers or a larger space, and value your music over movies, then the A/B amp in the Integra (with its better power supply and component parts) is more compelling.

Each have their drawbacks but both offer some real bang for the buck. At the closeout prices we are seeing for the SC-07 the choice is much less difficult. For $1500.00 or less I would be happy to have the SC-07 over the $500-700 more expensive Integra for movies/TV and CD playback. Price them both a $2000 or so and my choice goes to the Integra despite its other issues.

For people on the fence on the newer models (9.9 vs SC-27) or even the older models for the same money - you owe it to yourselves to listen to both with movies and music. I'd throw the Denon 4xxx series in there too bit I think you will be back to the Pioneer and the Integra in the end.

eldithomaso and optivity,

Thank you for your input on the comparison between the various pioneer elites SC models and the comparable integra models. I think the new SC-25 and SC-27 will be comparable to the new DTR 50.1 and DTR 70.1, respectively. Integra does not have these models displayed on their website under products -> receivers as of this writing, but they do actually have the operator manuals (under support -> owners manuals) and photos (under press -> photo library) on their website. If you look at the manual for the 70.1 / 80.1 (one manual combined for both units) you'll see the torodial transformer doesn't come into play until you get to the 80.1 which at a suggested retail price of $2800 is well over the $1500-$2000 range I was hoping to be in. Also I think all the units we are discussing have ethernet connections (in addition to RS232C connections) as an option for completing any firmware updates. I think you have given me some great things to think about: customer support/updates, audio sound quality, video processing, heat and I will have to check to see if they have changed the power supply on the SC-25/SC-27 (although I'm pretty sure that wasn't a change). I will certainly take that all into consideration as I demo both audio and video sources on both set-ups.

Again, I thank both of you for taking an interest and the time to respond to my post. I will definitely report back on my decision (that is once the Integra units are out to test, might be a while without a receiver ).

Thanks

JF

P.S. eldithomaso...YMMV?
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post #13577 of 17107 Old 09-13-2009, 10:30 PM
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What kinds of load times are people seeing for pictures when you run a slideshow? My 7MP pictures are anywhere from 2-3MB in size and they all take about 15 seconds to load. I would think it'd be faster with a 100mb connection. I'm running it just by browsing to the My Pictures folder from the HMG interface.

EDIT: Some of these 7MP pictures are taking up to 30 seconds to load.

Jake.
I plugged a USB jump drive right into the front. It took a very long time to upload 2-3MB jpg images. I didn't time it, but 15-30 seconds doesn't sound that far off. Doesn't sound to me like the network is the issue.

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post #13578 of 17107 Old 09-14-2009, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

thomasphoenix (Tsiju)
sent and posted the following in regards to how the SC-07 (SC-LX81)and SC-05 (SC-LX71) remapping of 7.1:

Original post

In addition, Tsiju PM'd me with the following:


Attached is the DTS-HD Audio Consumer White Paper



Thanks for all your testing and digging up of information to share with us, Tsiju
Link added to front page
General information

Hey thanks for sharing this info CHP_VR.


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post #13579 of 17107 Old 09-14-2009, 07:30 AM
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eldi....can't argue your testing of the SC vs Integra, as I've never tried any Integra AVRs. However, having previously had EMOTIVA UPA-1/LPA-1 combo, I was able to do a direct comparison using the same 4 Ohm/6 Ohm Rocket speakers.

Not using any sort of room/speaker correction, I'd say it was a lateral move going from the EMOTIVA combo to my SC 05. The UPA did indeed have a toroidal power supply. It's main advantage was a low noise floor. That said, I've never noted any untoward S/N issues with the SC 05, either.

In short, it was a lateral move, strictly on comparing the A/B amps in the EMOTIVA vs the ICEamps in the SC 05.

At the time (about a year ago), I swapped a lot of gear in and out trying to get what I considered the most performance for the buck. Originally, I was going to add the EMOTIVA UMC-1 to the LPA-1 amp. As of yet, that pre-pro still hasn't been released, however.

At that point, I steered towards different AVRs. First, I had an Onkyo 805. I don't know what corresponding Integra model would have been to the 805. And, I don't believe the 805 had a toroidal power supply. But, that unit was nowhere nearly as capable as the EMOTIVA. Immediately I noticed compression and the onset of clipping with the 805. Granted, I push my AV gear regularly. Still, I just couldn't wrap my ears around what I was hearing.

the Onkyo 805 quickly gave way to a Marantz SR 8002 (another unit that uses a toroidal power supply). I have had other Marantz gear in the past and liked how they sounded. In the power dept, the Marantz was much, much better than the Onkyo 805. However, I just didn't like what Audyssey did in my room, with my set up.

That gave way to the current SC 05. That hit my sweet spot. No compression. Big dynamics. And, it offered the warmth I sought and had experienced with the EMOTIVA, Marantz, and even previous Elite gear I'd had.

Obviously, everyone's set up is different. And, the way any AVR sounds is dependent on those different set ups.

But, not implementing any sort of room/speaker correction, and going only with my ears being the judge, I'd rank the EMOTIVA combo and the SC 05 as being equal. Next would be the Marantz SR 8002. A distant 3rd (or is that 4th?) would be the Onkyo 805, and its subsequent updates (I don't think that the basic architecture, or amps would have changed).

As you mention, the Susano SC 09 is in a whole other league entirely. Power supply would have to be beefier for no other reason than there's 3 more channels that have to be driven (10.1 vs 7.1) over the SC 05/07 siblings. The differences don't end there. There's the construction differences, too. LCD screen....etc, etc!

While I've only given a quick test drive of the newer SC25/27 at my local Magnolia, I'm of the mind that the upgrade is mainly feature driven (PQLS on all channels, not just two channels, when used with a new Pioneer BD player, being the main one). I don't believe there are any differences in the power supply, nor the ICEamps from the 05/07 to the 25/27.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by acer View Post

Has anyone took their sc-05/sc-07 apart far enough to see what those ICE amps look like? I took the cover off of mine to take a look at the innards and that big gray box is covering up all of the good stuff. All I can see through the fan is a big row of 3300 80v capacitors.

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Here's the amp section on the SC-09TX

http://translate.google.com/translat...en-us%26sa%3DN
http://translate.google.com/translat...en-us%26sa%3DN

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post #13581 of 17107 Old 09-14-2009, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoulks View Post

JF

P.S. eldithomaso...YMMV?

YMMV = "Your Mileage May Vary"

Like the EPA - we advise you to take our audio economy recommendations and consider your specific listening style.

Isn't it time someone promoted quality as value?
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post #13582 of 17107 Old 09-14-2009, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

eldi....can't argue your testing of the SC vs Integra, as I've never tried any Integra AVRs. However, having previously had EMOTIVA UPA-1/LPA-1 combo, I was able to do a direct comparison using the same 4 Ohm/6 Ohm Rocket speakers.

Not using any sort of room/speaker correction, I'd say it was a lateral move going from the EMOTIVA combo to my SC 05. The UPA did indeed have a toroidal power supply. It's main advantage was a low noise floor. That said, I've never noted any untoward S/N issues with the SC 05, either.

In short, it was a lateral move, strictly on comparing the A/B amps in the EMOTIVA vs the ICEamps in the SC 05.

At the time (about a year ago), I swapped a lot of gear in and out trying to get what I considered the most performance for the buck. Originally, I was going to add the EMOTIVA UMC-1 to the LPA-1 amp. As of yet, that pre-pro still hasn't been released, however.

At that point, I steered towards different AVRs. First, I had an Onkyo 805. I don't know what corresponding Integra model would have been to the 805. And, I don't believe the 805 had a toroidal power supply. But, that unit was nowhere nearly as capable as the EMOTIVA. Immediately I noticed compression and the onset of clipping with the 805. Granted, I push my AV gear regularly. Still, I just couldn't wrap my ears around what I was hearing.

the Onkyo 805 quickly gave way to a Marantz SR 8002 (another unit that uses a toroidal power supply). I have had other Marantz gear in the past and liked how they sounded. In the power dept, the Marantz was much, much better than the Onkyo 805. However, I just didn't like what Audyssey did in my room, with my set up.

That gave way to the current SC 05. That hit my sweet spot. No compression. Big dynamics. And, it offered the warmth I sought and had experienced with the EMOTIVA, Marantz, and even previous Elite gear I'd had.

Obviously, everyone's set up is different. And, the way any AVR sounds is dependent on those different set ups.

But, not implementing any sort of room/speaker correction, and going only with my ears being the judge, I'd rank the EMOTIVA combo and the SC 05 as being equal. Next would be the Marantz SR 8002. A distant 3rd (or is that 4th?) would be the Onkyo 805, and its subsequent updates (I don't think that the basic architecture, or amps would have changed).

As you mention, the Susano SC 09 is in a whole other league entirely. Power supply would have to be beefier for no other reason than there's 3 more channels that have to be driven (10.1 vs 7.1) over the SC 05/07 siblings. The differences don't end there. There's the construction differences, too. LCD screen....etc, etc!

While I've only given a quick test drive of the newer SC25/27 at my local Magnolia, I'm of the mind that the upgrade is mainly feature driven (PQLS on all channels, not just two channels, when used with a new Pioneer BD player, being the main one). I don't believe there are any differences in the power supply, nor the ICEamps from the 05/07 to the 25/27.

Good points:

The 805 was similar in amplification to the DTR-7.8 (neither have the Torordial Power Supply).

The 905/8.8 were considered to be far suprior in their dynamics and amplifer stages. I belive the 875 also had an upgraded power supply but am not certain.

I will admit I am shocked to hear that the separates did NOT outperform the SC-05. I heard the Emotiva had some excellent reviews.

Isn't it time someone promoted quality as value?
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post #13583 of 17107 Old 09-14-2009, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

.......................................
like the epa - we advise you to take our audio economy recommendations and consider your specific listening style.

lol

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post #13584 of 17107 Old 09-14-2009, 05:53 PM
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Problem: HDMI Port #2 has basically quit receiving audio or video signals from all my devices. I have tried new cables, switching gear out, etc. All other HDMI ports work as intended with all cable/equipment combos.

I thought I remembered somebody here having the same issue and fixing it by doing a hardware reset?
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post #13585 of 17107 Old 09-14-2009, 06:10 PM
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Hello,
While I agree the Marantz SR8002 is a very powerful receiver, the TX-SR805 is truly not that far behind if at all.
Here are the measurements for the SR8002: http://www.ultimateavmag.com/avrecei...02/index7.html
Here are the measurements for the TX-SR805: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-5.html
Here are measurements for the TX-SR875: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/rec...-receiver.html
Granted different reviewers and different publications. However, The TX-SR805 shared the identical amplifier section with the TX-SR875 which measured well over 100 WPC ACD.

It is not surprising that a dedicated outboard power amplifier would handle high volumes much better than an integrated amplifier, that being said the drive capabilities of the Marantz and the Onkyo should be close to identical.

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post #13586 of 17107 Old 09-14-2009, 07:25 PM
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Would anyone have some knowledge and or opinions on the idea that,I have two Anthem Satement P2 amps (325watts x 2channels each).That I have'nt tried yet with my SC-05 recvr.I'm curious to hear what they'd be like with the SC-05.At almost 80 pounds each,it's not easy for I to set up.
But,where the SC-05 has 140watts per channel,does that mean it would not properly function with the 325watts per ch. amps?
Maybe it makes a differrence that I only use,or connect a total of 4 speakers?
Thanks
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post #13587 of 17107 Old 09-14-2009, 07:54 PM
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Hello,
That is an interesting situation. While ideally, you want all of your channels to have the same gain, you should be able to trim down the Anthem to match the output of the Pioneer's amplifiers. What kind of speakers are you using?

If your speakers are biwirable and biampable, that might be a good way to go depending on how efficient or more importantly, inefficient your main speakers are. Otherwise, I would put 3 of the 4 channels of your Anthem on the Front Left, Center and Front Right Speakers as these are the most important. The Center Channel is especially important in HT.
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post #13588 of 17107 Old 09-14-2009, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

Hello,
That is an interesting situation. While ideally, you want all of your channels to have the same gain, you should be able to trim down the Anthem to match the output of the Pioneer's amplifiers. What kind of speakers are you using?

If your speakers are biwirable and biampable, that might be a good way to go depending on how efficient or more importantly, inefficient your main speakers are. Otherwise, I would put 3 of the 4 channels of your Anthem on the Front Left, Center and Front Right Speakers as these are the most important. The Center Channel is especially important in HT.
Cheers,
AD

Thanks,
I have Klipsch RF-7's.Each speaker has (2) 10" woofers and a horn tweeter (cant remember specs of tweeter off hand).
I use one pair for frnt and another pair for surrounds.
The amps have no gain adj. they do have a setting for XLR or RCA that gives a diiff. db though???
As I say,each amp is a 2 channel amp.Yea,my speakers are bi-wired.
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post #13589 of 17107 Old 09-14-2009, 08:20 PM
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Hello,
With speakers as efficient as Klipsch's, I would not imagine you need to biamp unless your listening room doubles as a Concert Hall. From looking at the specs, your RF-7's are 102 db efficient which is amazing. There is certainly something to be said for horn loaded speakers.

In all honestly, given how efficient your speakers are, you might benefit more by having identical gain in all channels and using your Anthem's in another setup. Or, if wanting some other new toy, selling them on Audiogon.
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post #13590 of 17107 Old 09-14-2009, 08:22 PM
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Hello Everyone,

I just bought an SC05 and I LOVE it! However, I noticed that when I play a Dolby True HD encoded Blu-Ray, not only does the main display says that it is playing back Dolby True HD audio, but there is also a small light that comes on and stays on that has the Dolby Symbol with the HD beside it. But when I play a disc with DTS HD-MA, the main display says that it's DTS HD-MA, but the small light that comes on says that it is DTS, not DTS HD. Does anyone else have this problem and/or know what I am doing wrong and how to fix it?

On another note, what is considered a "normal" listening level, that is still considered "loud" but won't damage your speakers? I've been playing my Blu-Ray's on average anywhere from -15 to -10. Aren't I technically playing my audio above the 50% level and possibly distorting my sound? Any thoughts?
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