Official Pioneer SC-05 and SC-07 Owners Thread - Page 461 - AVS Forum
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post #13801 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 02:07 PM
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WOW!
I just got thru,finally,connecting my Anthem Statement P2 amp to my Pioneer SC-05 reciever,wow is strong,much more powerful bass,holds and sustains it longer.I had it connected to my Yamaha RX-Z9 reciever and always kinda thought,for 325watts per 2ch. was that really worth $3000.But maybe it's the power supply for the SC-05???,but wow does'nt this reciever make more of a diff with this amp.Still not,really sure,if worth $3000,because this comparison still makes me amazed at how good these Pioneer SC series recievers sound,for the cost(got my SC-05 on sale for $1000,approx 9 months ago).
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post #13802 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

Mark S....I got to say, the more I read about the issue, the more I'm wondering if you've got a bad voice coil in your SVS. That will cause the bottoming out you're experiencing. I mention that because you say your other sub (Paradigm) doesn't respond the same way.

Usually, if a sub amp goes bad, there are no "ifs or buts" about it. It just quits working. That's not the case in your situation, though. If you're bottoming out the sub at low volumes, I'm guessing it's the driver. One test....can you physically push the driver with your finger tips?

In any event, SVS is a good company. They'll help you figure it out.

I almost hope you're right (so that I can finally resolve these issues), but why does it sound perfect when I run test sweeps to the sub? I guess thats the question I would ask. It shakes my entire house with seemingly very good bass when I run the test sweeps from 120Hz down to 20Hz. Then, I put in a movie, and it's as if I'm running a $50 sub from Wal-Mart or something. Ideally I would want it to play each note during a movie like it does during the test sweep.

I've never pushed hard on the driver but I've pushed on it a bit/tapped it with my fingertips and it seems fine. When its playing if I put my head on the ground I can see the driver (its a cylinder sub remember) and duing the test sweeps it's moving a LOT as I would expect it to.

I haven't heard back from SVS yet after I sent them the long e-mail this morning (I sent them the same as my long post today detailing my findings). They usually respond within the hour so I'm hoping they are just looking into it further. I'm looking forward to hearing what they suggest as well. A big concern I have in all of this is if I have to ship it back to them, it is going to be very expensive and I can't afford to be sending 70lb packages back and forth until I get a properly working sub. I decided to go over budget getting very excited about this sub, and after all this you can imagine my disappointment.

Thanks again for the suggestions,

Mark
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post #13803 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Be sure you switch from "Receiver" to "Source" on the remote, after hitting "Tuner", Crocodile.

BTW, congratulations and welcome to the ICE Club

CHP_VR:

Thanks very much for the quick and informative reply. Was able to use the remote to change/access presets when I got home from work.

Enjoying the SC-07 very much. It's in my master bedroom theatre, but I may opt for one in my primary home theatre room as well. Very impressed.

Thanks for a really well-done forum. Crocodile
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post #13804 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post

I almost hope you're right (so that I can finally resolve these issues), but why does it sound perfect when I run test sweeps to the sub? I guess thats the question I would ask. It shakes my entire house with seemingly very good bass when I run the test sweeps from 120Hz down to 20Hz. Then, I put in a movie, and it's as if I'm running a $50 sub from Wal-Mart or something. Ideally I would want it to play each note during a movie like it does during the test sweep.

I've never pushed hard on the driver but I've pushed on it a bit/tapped it with my fingertips and it seems fine. When its playing if I put my head on the ground I can see the driver (its a cylinder sub remember) and duing the test sweeps it's moving a LOT as I would expect it to.

I haven't heard back from SVS yet after I sent them the long e-mail this morning (I sent them the same as my long post today detailing my findings). They usually respond within the hour so I'm hoping they are just looking into it further. I'm looking forward to hearing what they suggest as well. A big concern I have in all of this is if I have to ship it back to them, it is going to be very expensive and I can't afford to be sending 70lb packages back and forth until I get a properly working sub. I decided to go over budget getting very excited about this sub, and after all this you can imagine my disappointment.

Thanks again for the suggestions,

Mark

Mark, test sweeps are one thing. Hi-rez (DTS-HD/TrueHD) signals are another. My favorite LFE torture disk is the Serenity BD. Within the first few minutes, there's a ton of 35Hz to 50 Hz activity....and it runs hot. If you can't bottom a sub with that material, you should be good to go.

The reason I ask whether you can actually move the drive with your finger tips, in the most extreme cases, a voice coil can be over driven and it will actually limit the actual speaker's movement because the coils have fused. The other issue is that the speaker itself is banging into the voicecoil and/or the basket.

It just sounds like it's way too easy to bottom this sub. That's why I'm thinking it's a driver issue. A sub amp works, or it doesn't, for the most part.

No worries about SVS. I've never owned any of their gear, but I've yet to hear anyone not being taken care of by them.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #13805 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 02:50 PM
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Mark S,
Are you sure your sub is in the best spot.Not being canceled out by your spkrs???
I'll have only my sub working,then i'll experiment with it's function, location,and then fine tune settings.Then reconnect other speakers,to see if it's being cancelled.
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post #13806 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

Mark, test sweeps are one thing. Hi-rez (DTS-HD/TrueHD) signals are another. My favorite LFE torture disk is the Serenity BD. Within the first few minutes, there's a ton of 35Hz to 50 Hz activity....and it runs hot. If you can't bottom a sub with that material, you should be good to go.

The reason I ask whether you can actually move the drive with your finger tips, in the most extreme cases, a voice coil can be over driven and it will actually limit the actual speaker's movement because the coils have fused. The other issue is that the speaker itself is banging into the voicecoil and/or the basket.

It just sounds like it's way too easy to bottom this sub. That's why I'm thinking it's a driver issue. A sub amp works, or it doesn't, for the most part.

No worries about SVS. I've never owned any of their gear, but I've yet to hear anyone not being taken care of by them.


Alright well that makes me feel a bit better....I actually hope I have a bad voice coil because the cylinder design works perfectly for me and I don't necessarily want to have to find a new sub. I was unaware that a test sweep and DTS HD/DD True HD movies could have such different effects on a sub, but that is why I'm asking my questions here, because you guys know way more than I do! haha.

"Way too easy to bottom this sub" just about sums up everything thats happening to me, so if a bad voice coil can cause that, I would agree it is a likely possibility. My Paradigm Servo 15 doesn't bottom, I can turn up the gain (on the sub or in the receiver) and make it sound like crap and way too boomy but it never bottoms. Actually, now that you mention it, we had our driver replaced in the Paradigm sub many years ago because it made a similar "knocking" sound all the time, and from what I've learned here that means its bottoming....maybe it had a bad voice coil to begin with as well. Since the driver replacement, the Paradigm sub has performed flawlessly.

I will also try to get a hold of this "Serenety" BD you talk about, I'd be interested to test that.

Thanks!

Mark
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post #13807 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by duggy40 View Post

Mark S,
Are you sure your sub is in the best spot.Not being canceled out by your spkrs???
I'll have only my sub working,then i'll experiment with it's function, location,and then fine tune settings.Then reconnect other speakers,to see if it's being cancelled.

I've had it in the corner along side my speakers, and also near the wall half way between the front and back speakers and there is no difference. With the severity of the problem I am having I'd be surprised if this all turns out to be a placement issue but who knows!

Thanks,

Mark
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post #13808 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

Charles R.......that's the same way I do it. I had to go back in after I ran MCACC and knock down the vol setting in the SC....probably about 3db. I was a little concerned because my measuring position (which is also the main listening position) isn't equi-distant from the subs. The rest of the SPL I got fine tuned individually in each sub (again using the RS SPL meter) by using each sub's gain level.

MCACC set up actually split the distance between the two from the measuring/listening position, which is probably what I'd do if I set it manually.

I was also a little concerned that by splitting the LFE channel with a Y connector, that the signal would be degraded enough that neither sub would get enough of a signal to work properly. That was unfounded, though.

Thought it would be a bit tricky since the Phoenix is an 18" with 2-4" down firing ports. While the MFW uses a smaller driver (15") with a front firing slot port. I've heard some say that using multiple subs require you to use the same sub. That wasn't an issue, either.

MacFan.....the placement of the subs to where they sounded best happened to work out that way. That said, I had to replace an end table with the MFW. There just wasn't room for both. I'm having a piece of glass cut for the top of it so it does double duty as a sub and an end table.

I was using an Elemental Design eQ2 to tame some peaks. Now, I don't need to use EQ as everything smoothed out nicely by using two subs. I've got lots more headroom. Much more slam. And integration with my mains sounds much more seamless.

Haven't measured how low they go. But, my ears tell me I'm well below 15 Hz....especially with music that has information in the subsonic range.

While it makes no sense, I'm finding that I'm lowering the volume on the SC, playing the same material as I was before.

All-in-all, one of those ideas that actually paid off handsomely. That's something that I can't say regularly when I make changes in my HT.

I have an SMS-1, and it's graphic display makes it pretty easy to equalize the two (running one at a time, of course). It is a huge advantage for one person working alone.

I too was concerned about a mismatch, as space limitations forced me to use a box in one corner and a cylinder in the other. They are both SVS, but have different drivers and one fires to the side, the other down (ports up). Ed Mullin (SVS) reassured me that they'd blend well in my arrangement, and that's how it turned out.

I've used multi Y connectors in days gone by, at one time connecting three subs and a Buttkicker off one LFE output. The SMS-1 has three LFE outputs, so that is no longer a consideration, but I did learn the signal can be split quite a few times without a problem. (Although some subs' auto on feature might not work well.)

Like you, I found that two well placed (or kinda well placed, as in my case) subs could reduce or even eliminate the need for EQ. I still smooth things out with the SMS-1, but wouldn't absolutely have to. Still, the SMS-1 was so helpful helping me find both the proper volume and the correct phase settings to offset the fact that I couldn't relocate my subs, that it probably earned it's keep on the setup aspect alone. And it was magic while I had only one sub.
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post #13809 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 05:59 PM
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So I posted about this a few months ago. I thought I would give a quick update (not so quick, but quick compared to what has gone on). My SC-07 was shutting down when playing content at moderate volumes. I used it on the exact same speaker system as my VSX-94 which worked fine in the setup, I measured impedances (8 ohm RBH MC6C's are the speakers), I even replaced all wiring just to be sure. At that point Pioneer asked me to bring the SC in, I got it back 3 weeks later with a note saying the fw was updated.

I unhooked my working VSX-94 and connected the SC-07 and on power up, with zero content, it shutdown (it turns on and then after about a second there is a click and then it shuts down). Pioneer asked for it back a second time after going through everything I had done (I have a lot of experience installing receivers - Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer mostly, and I own 9 Pioneers (6 AVR's + 3 HU's), I have never ever seen this). They returned it to me this week (it was over 2 months in their hands between the two returns).



Now it gets interesting, in fact I will copy what I sent to Pioneer (the speakers are RBH MC-6C's).

I powered on the SC-07 and it came on fine (nothing connected). I then turned it off and moved one speaker connection from the 94 to the SC-07, I powered it on and the SC-07 shut down as soon as it came on (it turns on, then there is a click about a second later and it shuts down with the phase light flashing).
I then tried fresh wiring measured all DC impedances (they are 8ohm speakers), tested the wiring on the VSX-94 and when I plugged it into the SC-07, powered it on, it shut down.

I then took another fresh cable that was about 20 feet long. I connected that and the SC-07 DID NOT shut down (no content playing but it at least powered up). I then took the 20 foot cable and just cut it to 5 feet. When I connected it, the SC-07 SHUT DOWN on power up (same cable, I just cut it down to 5 feet). I did this again with a different 20 foot cable and two speakers. NO shutdown with the long cable, complete shutdown when I cut that cable to 5 feet too.

Trying the long cable was a fluke, but it is repeatable (and I have not even tried running content yet, the shutdowns I was describing happen at startup). The only explanation we can come up with is that there is some pulse being generated by the SC-07 at startup and the reflection is causing a shut down. (the longer cable is either reducing the amplitude of the reflection or there is a shift in timing) None of my other 3 generations of Pioneer Elite receivers do this just the SC.


There ya go, I have never seen this, running long spools is not a solution (especially since I have no idea if that would work with real content playing, namely would the effect be amplified). Either I have a screwed up SC or there is some sort of frequency dependent return loss effect in the speakers (more than one speaker) causing reflections that the SC cannot handle, even at power up. Static DC impedances are totally normal, the wiring is perfect; I may get a scope and network analyzer on the system but given that all my other Pioneer Elites work just fine I am inclined to kick it back to Pioneer.

If anyone has ideas, holler.
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post #13810 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by aseer View Post

So I posted about this a few months ago. I thought I would give a quick update (not so quick, but quick compared to what has gone on). My SC-07 was shutting down when playing content at moderate volumes. I used it on the exact same speaker system as my VSX-94 which worked fine in the setup, I measured impedances (8 ohm RBH MC6C's are the speakers), I even replaced all wiring just to be sure. At that point Pioneer asked me to bring the SC in, I got it back 3 weeks later with a note saying the fw was updated.

I unhooked my working VSX-94 and connected the SC-07 and on power up, with zero content, it shutdown (it turns on and then after about a second there is a click and then it shuts down). Pioneer asked for it back a second time after going through everything I had done (I have a lot of experience installing receivers - Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer mostly, and I own 9 Pioneers (6 AVR's + 3 HU's), I have never ever seen this). They returned it to me this week (it was over 2 months in their hands between the two returns).



Now it gets interesting, in fact I will copy what I sent to Pioneer (the speakers are RBH MC-6C's).

I powered on the SC-07 and it came on fine (nothing connected). I then turned it off and moved one speaker connection from the 94 to the SC-07, I powered it on and the SC-07 shut down as soon as it came on (it turns on, then there is a click about a second later and it shuts down with the phase light flashing).
I then tried fresh wiring measured all DC impedances (they are 8ohm speakers), tested the wiring on the VSX-94 and when I plugged it into the SC-07, powered it on, it shut down.

I then took another fresh cable that was about 20 feet long. I connected that and the SC-07 DID NOT shut down (no content playing but it at least powered up). I then took the 20 foot cable and just cut it to 5 feet. When I connected it, the SC-07 SHUT DOWN on power up (same cable, I just cut it down to 5 feet). I did this again with a different 20 foot cable and two speakers. NO shutdown with the long cable, complete shutdown when I cut that cable to 5 feet too.

Trying the long cable was a fluke, but it is repeatable (and I have not even tried running content yet, the shutdowns I was describing happen at startup). The only explanation we can come up with is that there is some pulse being generated by the SC-07 at startup and the reflection is causing a shut down. (the longer cable is either reducing the amplitude of the reflection or there is a shift in timing) None of my other 3 generations of Pioneer Elite receivers do this just the SC.


There ya go, I have never seen this, running long spools is not a solution (especially since I have no idea if that would work with real content playing, namely would the effect be amplified). Either I have a screwed up SC or there is some sort of frequency dependent return loss effect in the speakers (more than one speaker) causing reflections that the SC cannot handle, even at power up. Static DC impedances are totally normal, the wiring is perfect; I may get a scope and network analyzer on the system but given that all my other Pioneer Elites work just fine I am inclined to kick it back to Pioneer.

If anyone has ideas, holler.

WOW!
I would definetly get another,replacement,to try.I cant give much help,only that my speaker cables,on fronts,are 10' bi-wired
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post #13811 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by aseer View Post

So I posted about this a few months ago. I thought I would give a quick update (not so quick, but quick compared to what has gone on). My SC-07 was shutting down when playing content at moderate volumes. I used it on the exact same speaker system as my VSX-94 which worked fine in the setup, I measured impedances (8 ohm RBH MC6C's are the speakers), I even replaced all wiring just to be sure. At that point Pioneer asked me to bring the SC in, I got it back 3 weeks later with a note saying the fw was updated.

I unhooked my working VSX-94 and connected the SC-07 and on power up, with zero content, it shutdown (it turns on and then after about a second there is a click and then it shuts down). Pioneer asked for it back a second time after going through everything I had done (I have a lot of experience installing receivers - Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer mostly, and I own 9 Pioneers (6 AVR's + 3 HU's), I have never ever seen this). They returned it to me this week (it was over 2 months in their hands between the two returns).



Now it gets interesting, in fact I will copy what I sent to Pioneer (the speakers are RBH MC-6C's).

I powered on the SC-07 and it came on fine (nothing connected). I then turned it off and moved one speaker connection from the 94 to the SC-07, I powered it on and the SC-07 shut down as soon as it came on (it turns on, then there is a click about a second later and it shuts down with the phase light flashing).
I then tried fresh wiring measured all DC impedances (they are 8ohm speakers), tested the wiring on the VSX-94 and when I plugged it into the SC-07, powered it on, it shut down.

I then took another fresh cable that was about 20 feet long. I connected that and the SC-07 DID NOT shut down (no content playing but it at least powered up). I then took the 20 foot cable and just cut it to 5 feet. When I connected it, the SC-07 SHUT DOWN on power up (same cable, I just cut it down to 5 feet). I did this again with a different 20 foot cable and two speakers. NO shutdown with the long cable, complete shutdown when I cut that cable to 5 feet too.

Trying the long cable was a fluke, but it is repeatable (and I have not even tried running content yet, the shutdowns I was describing happen at startup). The only explanation we can come up with is that there is some pulse being generated by the SC-07 at startup and the reflection is causing a shut down. (the longer cable is either reducing the amplitude of the reflection or there is a shift in timing) None of my other 3 generations of Pioneer Elite receivers do this just the SC.


There ya go, I have never seen this, running long spools is not a solution (especially since I have no idea if that would work with real content playing, namely would the effect be amplified). Either I have a screwed up SC or there is some sort of frequency dependent return loss effect in the speakers (more than one speaker) causing reflections that the SC cannot handle, even at power up. Static DC impedances are totally normal, the wiring is perfect; I may get a scope and network analyzer on the system but given that all my other Pioneer Elites work just fine I am inclined to kick it back to Pioneer.

If anyone has ideas, holler.

I do have a ? though.You said Pioneer said the FW was updated on your Sc-07???
What FW does it now show?
Thanks
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post #13812 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 06:10 PM
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now that is TRULY odd...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

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post #13813 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 06:13 PM
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now that is TRULY odd...

Agreed, as are some very smart people on this end.
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post #13814 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 06:15 PM
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I do have a ? though.You said Pioneer said the FW was updated on your Sc-07???
What FW does it now show?
Thanks

I'll take a look later tonight (first I will have to see to check the fw, I can do it on my 94, 82, and 74 but never did it on the SC).
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post #13815 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 06:19 PM
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yea, because you wouldn't think a difference in 15 feet of wire would make any significant difference in reflection time, pulse amplitude, etc.

dang. i'm having difficulty wrapping my mind around this one...

i'd kick it back... given that you've done a significant amount of in-depth problem solving on it already, let them figure it out...

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my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

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post #13816 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

yea, because you wouldn't think a difference in 15 feet of wire would make any significant difference in reflection time, pulse amplitude, etc.

dang. i'm having difficulty wrapping my mind around this one...

i'd kick it back... given that you've done a significant amount of in-depth problem solving on it already, let them figure it out...


Agreed again, it was a complete surprise to see a relatively small difference in cable length be the difference. So much so that I repeated it 3 times with different cabling and 2 speakers. I have a lot of chopped up speaker wire sitting around.

Hopefully Pioneer will deal with this. (fortunately I have a VSX-94 just waiting to go back in.)


{there are a bunch of electrical engineers on this end who would love for me to scope the signals and take detailed return loss measurements - I just want my SC-07 to work. I have installed many SC's and they sound GREAT, I really look forward to hearing one in my own system}
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post #13817 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 06:55 PM
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ee's are like that...

i gotta admit though, i'd be curious to see what the scope says too... my internal "i want to know why" bit has been flipped on now...

although if i was in your shoes, i'd feel the same way (i'd just want it to work)... and you went WAY farther than most people would have with your problem solving process...

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my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #13818 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 08:12 PM
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Hey is that the new "ayeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee mac"?

Now that's a great shirt!

Isn't it time someone promoted quality as value?
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Originally Posted by duggy40 View Post

WOW!
I just got thru,finally,connecting my Anthem Statement P2 amp to my Pioneer SC-05 reciever,wow is strong,much more powerful bass,holds and sustains it longer.I had it connected to my Yamaha RX-Z9 reciever and always kinda thought,for 325watts per 2ch. was that really worth $3000.But maybe it's the power supply for the SC-05???,but wow does'nt this reciever make more of a diff with this amp.Still not,really sure,if worth $3000,because this comparison still makes me amazed at how good these Pioneer SC series recievers sound,for the cost(got my SC-05 on sale for $1000,approx 9 months ago).

Amps are "always" about the power supplies.

It's kinda like a Guitar amp that goes to "11" if ya know what I mean.

Isn't it time someone promoted quality as value?
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post #13820 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 09:39 PM
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I only have two front speakers & a sub connected to the SC-07 so far, with multichannel in inputs connected from my CD/SACD changer. When I play a CD, I get no bass from the sub, no matter what settings I use (large/small fronts, yes/plus sub, 50k or 80k crossover) - nothing matters. What am I missing?

(My stereo receiver, OTOH, with the same sub, worked as soon as I set the crossover, playing a stereo CD.)

I thought I read something about this in this massive thread, but I can't find it now.
I would think there has to be some way to get the bass directed to the sub from the mains.
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post #13821 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 10:18 PM
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well. i developed an interesting problem last night. my electric breakers decided they werent going to stay on anymore. i was very concerned that this was an sc-05 issue since i just got this a couple of days ago. well, electricion came over today and i found out that my entire front half of the house (including upstairs ie living room, main bathroom, master bedroom) was ALL wired on the same 15 amp breaker. (WTF!!) to top it off, we also found out that the entire house is wired on a 125 amp service from the pole.. (yikes AGAIN). so i will be hiring an electrician to rewire my home theatre area and the living room area onto different breakers with 20 amp breaker as opposed to 15.

so with this event i couldnt mess with my setup last night.. i was pretty pissed. but this morning i put in the old avia dvd and started messing with their sound tests. avia is pretty impressive. they have this one test where the sw and a certain channel will play at once. i finally experienced what a speaker that isnt designed for full range, sounded like. when avia played the test tones that i mentioned, i forgot that i had the fronts set to large by mcacc the nights previously, and the speaker sounded like it was dying. LOL.. what was happening was since the speakers were set to large they were playing the regular tones AND the SW tones!!! it was like a light turned on in my head!! oh that is why we have bass management.. all the theories and all the thread reading couldnt make me understand this little concept. but wow it was so clear today. i cant even describe what the speaker sounded like.. i mean it was distorted but not like clipping, or anything else i have heard before.. but anyway i think i get the message, thanks to avia, on setting speakers to small. ADDITIONALLY i turned down the gain on the subwoofer, didnt rerun mcacc though. i watched watchman ( my favorite movie on the earth right now) and it sounded good, but in the beginning when they kick in the comedians door, i didnt feel like it was hitting me in the face like it was before (lol).. but like others said, i shall leave it like this for awhile and see what happens.
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post #13822 of 17097 Old 09-23-2009, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVWH View Post

I only have two front speakers & a sub connected to the SC-07 so far, with multichannel in inputs connected from my CD/SACD changer. When I play a CD, I get no bass from the sub, no matter what settings I use (large/small fronts, yes/plus sub, 50k or 80k crossover) - nothing matters. What am I missing?

(My stereo receiver, OTOH, with the same sub, worked as soon as I set the crossover, playing a stereo CD.)

I thought I read something about this in this massive thread, but I can't find it now.
I would think there has to be some way to get the bass directed to the sub from the mains.

not sure if this experience will help you or not, but here goes. on my previous avr, when i had the multi ch analog outputs running from my bdp51fd, the bass was nonexistant from the subwoofer. however, if i ran just two cables (red and white) into the cd input of the receiver the subwoofer would play the bass and it sounded great.. when i went back to my multichannel analog setup in the setup menu it had no subwoofer at all.. pobably a setting issue which i didnt get into too much because i had the 05 on the way.. havent tested stereo cd music over the multi analogs on this receiver though..

by the way, what is your source for the cd?
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post #13823 of 17097 Old 09-24-2009, 04:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldithomaso View Post

Hey is that the new "ayeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee mac"?

Now that's a great shirt!

How about Windows 7?
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post #13824 of 17097 Old 09-24-2009, 04:55 AM
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I am new to the HT thing having only purchased my first receiver in May 09, a SC-LX71 (I'm in New Zealand). I spent alot of time reading much info, alot of it here which convinced me to buy the Pioneer, for which I am most definately not disappointed! Still trying to get my head around all it does though!

I have had a issue with the HMG losing contact with the server, regularly. I installed the firmware upgrade as described here and it has been running perfectly since (using the network to access music). A major improvement. Thanks for the advice!!
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post #13825 of 17097 Old 09-24-2009, 05:46 AM
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aseer.....I gotta say, that issue is a stumper, for certain. And, we've got some pretty smart people in these threads. I'd take their advice well before I would take Pioneer's support advice. Long shot question here.....did you try turning HDMI control to "off" in the set up menu? If not, see if that helps.

As a side note, Pioneer's support seems to have one answer for everything. I actually called them a while ago about the "unofficial" FW upgrade for use with the iPhone functionality. First time I called them, they said such a thing didn't exist. Just for grins, I called a couple of hours later, getting a new customer service rep. That one said there was a FW update, and that I should take mine to the nearest service center to have it done.

I had a couple of other questions (not issues) about running two subs from the single sub pre-out, using a "Y" connector. More specifically, would there be anything that should keep me from doing it. Guess the response. "It can be done, but you need a FW update to do it".

Ummmmm........yeah......right!

It's a good thing that there's not much that needs to be updated, because their CSR's are not very good.

Mac....gotta say, after lifting, shoving around two 100+lb SWs over the course of several days, I don't think I'll have to do much upper body work at the gym for awhile. It would have been a great help if I had had an extra "grunt" to help, but my son went back to college. So, I did it solo!

The results of that work paid off, though. I resisted going the multi-sub route for quite some time. It's truly made a big difference in both music and movie playback.

I'm going to have to revisit "Master and Commander" as well as "U-571" again.

I've been chasing down the scarce multi-channel DVD-AUDIO discs for awhile now. Hard to come by as they're all out of print. And, some people are asking outrageous prices for them. Having a bit of luck at the "Half-Price Books" stores on used ones. But, I was fortunate to find some that were (relatively) reasonable on ebay.

I was loving me some Diana Krall on hi-rez DVD-A last night. Even acoustic music had another dimension added via 2 subs. Pretty big difference having two subs vs one.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #13826 of 17097 Old 09-24-2009, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv47lg70 View Post

not sure if this experience will help you or not, but here goes. on my previous avr, when i had the multi ch analog outputs running from my bdp51fd, the bass was nonexistant from the subwoofer. however, if i ran just two cables (red and white) into the cd input of the receiver the subwoofer would play the bass and it sounded great.. when i went back to my multichannel analog setup in the setup menu it had no subwoofer at all.. pobably a setting issue which i didnt get into too much because i had the 05 on the way.. havent tested stereo cd music over the multi analogs on this receiver though..

by the way, what is your source for the cd?

Sony DVP NC685 SACD/DVD changer.
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post #13827 of 17097 Old 09-24-2009, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Most obvious overlooked areas: (don't ask)

Make sure you turn it on with the remote.
(hint, when it's active the SR+ light on your display will light up)

page 71
To switch SR+ mode on/off, set the operation
selector switch to RCV, then press SR+.
The front panel display shows SR+ ON or SR+ OFF

Be sure to set up the SR+ options in the setup menu (page 92)

PDP In (SR+) - To control certain functions on this
receiver from a flat panel TV, select the display input
to which you've connected the receiver

Also, remember when you do this, you have to point the remote to the display rather than your receiver.

Let use know!

EDIT: Also, are you using a SR+ cable? It will be a four conductor plug. (four metal contacts, three spacers)


CHP_VR
thank you for the illuminating trick (turning SR+ on and off from the remote), I definitely overlooked that and feel like a dork...
So I did get it to work but the strangest thing happens. When I use the remote to change volume or surround mode, the TV displays the info with a 10/15 seconds (!!!!!!!!) delay. I changed the volume with four or five sequential ticks (if I keep the button pressed it goes too fast), and the TV displayed the message for each tick with 15 seconds between one and the next. I thought it was really weird.
Any ideas?
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post #13828 of 17097 Old 09-24-2009, 07:56 AM
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So, I got a reply form SVS. They said they forwarded my e-mails to the shop as well for their input. Here is what they told me:

Hi Mark,

The impression from the shop is that is sounds like the sub is simply being overdriven and that the playback levels are way high for a single 12" driver. This can cause not only the bottoming/distortion sounds at times (extremely difficult to do with a Plus 12.4 woofer) but also cause the limiter to engage frequently and make it seem very low at times even though the MV is high. They advise setting the sub gain to 1/2, re-running the auto-calibration, and leaving the sub level alone. The MV limit should be more like -10dB for DD and -14dB for DTS.
Those test tones are mastered at either -20 or -30 dBFS and that is why the sub feels clean/strong and a single sine sweep is also not the same as a broad band source material, which is much more demanding in certain respects.

It sounds like you might just need more output/headroom for your preferred levels than a single PC12-Plus can provide.



So, they think I am overdriving the sub. They are the experts but consider the following information. If I set the SVS sub so that it doesn't bottom:

- My Paradigm Ultracube 10 in a room with roughly 4X the volume (or more) and 20' ceilings outpowers it by a massive margin
- A friend of mine has a Paradigm DSP-10 in a much larger room that outpowers it by a massive margin
- A friend of mine has a Paradigm Cinema-10 HTIB sub that outpowers it by a considerable margin.
-- Our larger tower speakers can produce significantly more bass

Shouldn't this SVS sub be more powerful than all of the above by a noticable amount, or at the very least be the same?

Everytime I have done as they suggest and leave the gain at 1/2, run room correction, and leave it, I might as well unplug the sub because it does next to nothing.

Do you guys have any suggestion as how I should go forward with this? I've got a sick feeling of buyers remose in my stomach right now because I'm probably going to have to pay to ship this sub back and I will have wasted a bunch of money I can't afford to waste.

Thanks,

Mark
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post #13829 of 17097 Old 09-24-2009, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Aseer
Wow.. definitely one for the books!

I'll certaintly like to know what the problem is......

However, I think for you, the best thing is to have Pioneer replace it...

There's something going on inside.. anything from a loose wire to a bad module.
You've been more than patient.. time to have Pioneer stand by their product and replace it for you, IMO.

Please keep us up to date on the progress! Good luck.

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #13830 of 17097 Old 09-24-2009, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark S.;
When you get your SPL meter, you'll be able to actually measure the output and maybe at least narrow down the problem.
It still could be a massive null in your room.
It may be the SVS is not outputting what's rated (the SPL will help determine this)
It may be you need a larger sub.... (or dual SVSs)

Do you still have your Ultracube 10? If so, try to connect and see what kind of difference there is..

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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