Official Pioneer SC-05 and SC-07 Owners Thread - Page 68 - AVS Forum
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post #2011 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

thanks for reply - I thought someone said that the Pioneer only had 330W marked on the back ?

ok - those aren't realistic numbers but most AVRs have the likes of 600-700W marked on the back

cheers, Mark.

The SC-07 is rated at 700 total watts at 1Khz with seven channels driven. I don't see how it could only draw 330w and make 700 out the other end, thats some pretty efficient amps there.

edit...just checked the cheat sheet, the SC-07 does have a UL rating of 330w on the back.....Does that mean that under full load that it only pulls a max of 330w......?

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post #2012 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 10:02 AM
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Just got a call from an authorized dealer about a Pioneer special event this weekend at their store in Chino, CA. He says Pioneer will give deals minus sales tax and below eBay pricing for this three day event. Does this sound legit?

It is a three-hour round trip, so I hate to get out their and find out this is some kind of scam. They are an authorized dealer and appear to have a large inventory.

It would me nice to pick up a new SC-0? and BD player.
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post #2013 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 10:04 AM
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just looked at Pioneers web-product pages

they reckon the 94thx is 460W actual draw, and the sc-07 330W actual draw

that would save me about 120 pounds a year in electricity

my Arcam AVR350 - reckons max power draw - is 1200VA ?!! - 1.2kw ?? surely not ?
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post #2014 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post

Since you are using HDMI, it will not matter as the 05 will not alter HDMI video going thru it.


Thanks!




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post #2015 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

just looked at Pioneers web-product pages

they reckon the 94thx is 460W actual draw, and the sc-07 330W actual draw

that would save me about 120 pounds a year in electricity

well, no, since neither one of them will draw anywhere near their maximum the great majority of the time...

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post #2016 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 10:13 AM
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agree but you could argue their typical draws would be about the same distance apart - so could be 250W vs 150W .. still 100W saving ...

quite a lot when your amp is on 12 hours a day ....


Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

well, no, since neither one of them will draw anywhere near their maximum the great majority of the time...

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post #2017 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 10:19 AM
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you "could" argue that, but it holds no merit...

trust me, i'm "green" (as much as i can be)... and the efficiency of the ice amplification holds a certain "je ne sais quoi" for me... but i'm not hopeful of it saving the equivalent of 120 pounds for me...

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post #2018 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 10:26 AM
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how genuinely hot do they get on top ?

a good indicator ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

you "could" argue that, but it holds no merit...

trust me, i'm "green" (as much as i can be)... and the efficiency of the ice amplification holds a certain "je ne sais quoi" for me... but i'm not hopeful of it saving the equivalent of 120 pounds for me...

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post #2019 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

how genuinely hot do they get on top ?

a good indicator ...


After I run my 05 for a while playing movies and music, I can put my hand on top and it does not get hot enough for me to want to remove my hand. I do have it in a credenza with very little room, but I have a fan blowing out all of the hot air.

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post #2020 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

how genuinely hot do they get on top ?

a good indicator ...

In theory, D class amps (like the SC) run much more efficiently, therefore less heat needs to be dissipated.

Not too familiar with Acram gear, but the 350 is one of their "older" models (AB design)?

Well designed AVRs with well implemented heat sinks, and/or fans, shouldn't get hot to the touch at all. I wouldn't suggest keeping them in an entirely closed cabinet with no ventilation. But, the engineering of heat dissipation goes a long way towards adding the longevity of any piece of electronic gear.

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post #2021 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildroamer View Post

I know I need to read more of this thread, just thought I would pass on some of my observations.

I have the 07 connected to BDP-05FD and Pro-111FD using HDMI. Also have SA 8300HD DVR with HDMI. That brings me to my first issue/complaint;

I have HDMI Control on for all units, mainly for hi-speed and PQLS features. However, when I turn on my panel, AVR automatically goes to the tv input, which cannot have hdmi assigned to it if HDMI Control is on. So, I need to go to the HDMI input each time to watch cable, unless I also hook up box with component.

I guess it's not a big deal really, more of an issue for my other half

Also noticed that I could not choose 1080P as apparently my "device does not support 1080P"... Instead I just use the direct or pure setting, whichever it is called.

Coming from an Onkyo TX-SR705, I really am impressed with the sound quality, especially cd's using PQLS.

I do believe the 705 allowed smoother cable tv operation for some reason. Changing channels seems to lag a bit more than it used to. Maybe firmware updates will improve some of this?

Anyway, there were some other issues and questions I had, but they seem to have fallen out of my head as I type

Cheers,

T

wildroamer,
Your Sat/cable box does not have HDMI Control capability, so the tv defaults to component in..
The way to resolve it (or workaround) is to have component in from your sat/cable box to your SC-07 (Still a one wire solution to your display)...
I think you will find the PQ is not degraded (you can A/B it when you add the component, just keep the HDMI as is).
The "Not supported" issue is with HD, you won't be able to convert 720p, or 1080i to 1080p, but all SD stations will.
Anyway, that works for me, because my better half just uses the sat box remote to turn on the box, display and SC-07 with just one button and no hassle..
How do you like the PQLS?

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2022 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherardp View Post

I finally figured out the route cause of my problem. I pretty much followed the instructions in the manual from square 1. Afterwards I went into the settings of my D-link router and assigned my SC07 a permanent IP address, allowed full access on the network and made some other changes while I was in there. While doing that, I setup some favorite stations, podcasts, etc in my favorite folders through the Pioneer site. Very happy now, I can sleep at night. This was never a deal breaker, however its pretty neat to have so I wanted to get this working. Thanks to all that tried to assist me. If anyone is having problems with this feature, I advise to check your network settings in your routers, or modems. Other than that, very pleased and the Ipod control feature seals the deal. Got both my Itouch and Ipods working.


Very glad it was something simple, Sherardp, Not that it wasn't frustrating, but look at it this way, you got to be an expert
Seriously, glad it's working for you. The V-radio through the Pio site is pretty cool.
How do you like the Nueral Radio? Wish it had more stations....

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2023 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

how genuinely hot do they get on top ?

a good indicator ...

I can run mine all day.. it gets warm but never hot... It's a LOT cooler running than my Sat box...

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2024 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

wildroamer,
Your Sat/cable box does not have HDMI Control capability, so the tv defaults to component in..
The way to resolve it (or workaround) is to have component in from your sat/cable box to your SC-07 (Still a one wire solution to your display)...
I think you will find the PQ is not degraded (you can A/B it when you add the component, just keep the HDMI as is).
The "Not supported" issue is with HD, you won't be able to convert 720p, or 1080i to 1080p, but all SD stations will.
Anyway, that works for me, because my better half just uses the sat box remote to turn on the box, display and SC-07 with just one button and no hassle..
How do you like the PQLS?

Thanks again, I thought you had mentioned a work-around but hadn't stumbled upon it here. I did connect component to the box with no ill-effects to my eyes.

That PQLS feature is the real deal, believe it!

FYI, don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but PQLS is disabled, or maybe I should say disrupted if listening mode is changed during playback. Makes sense I guess.
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post #2025 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Juan,
Speaking of cooling..
I'm ordering from coolerguys... thanks for all your suggestions and the site.
Question, any recommendation about thermal setting? I have to decide if I want:
option (1) On at 81.6°F off at 76°F (default)
option (2) On at 86.6°F off at 81°F
Thanks

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2026 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildroamer View Post

Thanks again, I thought you had mentioned a work-around but hadn't stumbled upon it here. I did connect component to the box with no ill-effects to my eyes.

That PQLS feature is the real deal, believe it!

FYI, don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but PQLS is disabled, or maybe I should say disrupted if listening mode is changed during playback. Makes sense I guess.

Yeah, they have it as small footnote on page 90:

If a listening mode other than stereo is selected while the PQLS effect is enabled, the PQLS effect is disabled.

Freaked me out the first time.. PQLS OFF flashing, then it came back on..

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2027 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupalev View Post

Irrespective of the differences (or perhaps lack of) - I just got my SC-07 from Axxis Durango and it's incredible. I really am impressed with the sound it pushes to my 7.1 setup - put in some movies (dvd and blu-ray) and in my honest opinion, the experience is better than my local movie house. Great piece of hardware, definitely made the right choice for my home theater.

Congratulations and welcome to the ICE Club!
It's a beast that's very pleasing to the eyes and ears

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr21 View Post

Ordered my SC-07 and BDP-05FD from Axxis Durango last week. It's going to be Christmas in November

Mike

Merry Early Christmas, jmr21!!
That's one heck of a large stocking!
Let us know what you think once you get it set up!

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Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2028 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Juan,
Speaking of cooling..
I'm ordering from coolerguys... thanks for all your suggestions and the site.
Question, any recommendation about thermal setting? I have to decide if I want:
option (1) On at 81.6°F off at 76°F (default)
option (2) On at 86.6°F off at 81°F
Thanks


I would go with option 1.

Juan

My HT
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post #2029 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks.. ordering now.

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2030 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 01:44 PM
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wow thats depressing

your SC-07 is the same price in the US in dollars as it is in pounds in the UK
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post #2031 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

wow thats depressing

your SC-07 is the same price in the US in dollars as it is in pounds in the UK

To address a number of questions:

How do you fancy buying an SC-07 in the US and importing it over here? If the power supply is just from the ICEPower module, it may be possible to modify it with an internal jumper.

Digital amps are generally around 80% efficient, vs about 40% for class B amps. That means class D amps will use about half the mains power for the same audio power. They will also generate much less heat to dissipate.

330W consumption is meant to be representative of music and soundtracks, not laboratory test signals - which will probably cause the unit to consume more than twice that (for a short time).

The SC07 has a a bigger power supply than the SC05, though the amplifier itself seems to be the same. The SC07 is proably capable of running more channels at full power than the SC05.

Digital amplifier performance seems to be characterised more by their power supply than their amplifier.

Nick
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post #2032 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 02:56 PM
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thanks for the reply - don't fancy importing

as for the query about the Power supply - if you look to one of the previous posters its implied looking at hte parts list that the power supply is identical between the SC05 and SC07 ...
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post #2033 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

thanks for the reply - don't fancy importing

as for the query about the Power supply - if you look to one of the previous posters its implied looking at hte parts list that the power supply is identical between the SC05 and SC07 ...

The units both weigh the same, so I gotta think the amps and PS are identical. The SC-07 has a few more features and was submitted for THX Ultra. I would bet my first born that if the SC-05 was submitted for Ultra instead of Select, it would have passed. Marketing at its finest I say!




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post #2034 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

The units both weigh the same, so I gotta think the amps and PS are identical. The SC-07 has a few more features and was submitted for THX Ultra. I would bet my first born that if the SC-05 was submitted for Ultra instead of Select, it would have passed. Marketing at its finest I say!

Is the THX Ultra a better qualification or a different one? If you look at the THX web site, they show it as one that is optimized for a different room size/viewing distance--not a quality difference.


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THX makes shopping for home entertainment products easy. Regardless of the brand name, product category or price, THX ensures an unsurpassed level of quality. THX performance categories are often based on the size of the listening area - simply look for the THX performance category that best matches your needs.

For example, a THX Select2 Certified AV receiver is engineered for rooms with a viewing distance* of approximately 10 - 12 feet from the display to the primary seating position. By contrast, THX Ultra2 Certified products are engineered for rooms with a viewing distance of 12 feet and beyond.

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post #2035 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurylian View Post

Is the THX Ultra a better qualification or a different one? If you look at the THX web site, they show it as one that is optimized for a different room size/viewing distance--not a quality difference.

THX Ultra2 is a slightly more stringent qualification and also assumes a larger room. However the THX processing algorithms used in Ultra2-certified and Select2-certified models are identical.

What's important for the SC-05 vs SC-07 decision is that the guts in both the 05 and 07 appear to be almost identical, so one could infer that you'd get identical sound between the 05 and 07 when using the THX processing mode. As has been pointed out, the 05 is only Select2 certified because that's what it was submitted for (lower cost cert), but it's "twin" the 07 passed Ultra2 certification so the 05 should perform to Ultra2 standards.

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post #2036 of 17109 Old 11-03-2008, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Yeah, they have it as small footnote on page 90:

If a listening mode other than stereo is selected while the PQLS effect is enabled, the PQLS effect is disabled.

Freaked me out the first time.. PQLS OFF flashing, then it came back on..

CHP, I have not found an easy way to re-engage PQLS once I select another mode. Any ideas? For example, if I'm in Stereo/PQLS then go to EXT. STEREO, PQLS goes off obviously, then when I select the AUTO/DIRECT button, Stereo comes back but no PQLS. The only way I've been able to bring back PQLS is to select HOME MENU button twice. This actually brings up MCACC then closes it. Seems like I'm missing an easier way. Hope this makes sense. Thanks, Blue
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post #2037 of 17109 Old 11-04-2008, 12:34 AM
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friends:

I already have the sc-lx81 (in europe) amazing sound !!!

but i have some question:

1º I do not like what he does MCACC in my room. exactly:
What are the differences between DIRECT and AUTO SURROUND?

What is not used in DIRECT?


2º THX CINEMA mode ¿converts the sound of 5.1 to 7.1 or brings something else?
did not feel anything to activate


3º MCACC if the analysis makes a move and the distance between speakers
manually...

Does it fit the rest of factors to this new distance?


4º What benefits has DIRECT mode?
say:
• DIRECT – Sources are heard according to the
settings made in the Surround Setup (speaker
setting, channel level, speaker distance, acoustic
calibration EQ, and X-curve), as well as with dual
mono, the input attenuator, and any sound delay and
hi-bit/hi-sampling (SC-05 only) settings. You will hear
sources according to the number of channels in the
signal.


but... use all the settings , or no??



thanks!! and forgiveness for my English
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post #2038 of 17109 Old 11-04-2008, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

as for the query about the Power supply - if you look to one of the previous posters its implied looking at hte parts list that the power supply is identical between the SC05 and SC07 ...

I think nits pretty clear that the PSUs are different (700W vs 630W according to Pioneer) but the power amps are the same (same max power with only one or two channels driven together). The parts listed didnt' appear to relate to power supplies, unless I missed something.

Nick
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post #2039 of 17109 Old 11-04-2008, 03:03 AM
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Can someone help me with the PQLS feature I am not sure what it is exactly. Does it help sound quality? I have a SC-07 and the BD-05 player. I just want to take advantage of all the best features of my new equipment.

Thanks
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post #2040 of 17109 Old 11-04-2008, 05:46 AM
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PQLS is Precision Quartz Lock System. This Pioneers name for a family of industry-standard digital audio interface protocols. This is Pioneer's explanation, but it doesn't really get to the core of the problem or the benefit:
Quote:


To optimally recreate the dynamic sound quality of CDs, Pioneer created a jitter-free audio transmission method to help eliminate audio jitter normally associated with today's conventional products. As a result, each Pioneer® Blu-ray Disc® Player is designed with Precision Quartz Lock System (PQLS), which offers a transfer control technology that allows the output signals to be controlled by our latest Elite® AV receivers (SC-07 and SC-05) for higher-quality sound playback. The quartz oscillator eliminates the influence of jitter that can occur with the transfer of sound bits, and ultimately synchronizes music data from the Blu-ray Disc Player to the receiver. The result inevitably gives music fanatics revolutionary high-resolution CD audio.

First thing to understand is that PQLS is applied to different physical interfaces. It was first applied to IEEE 1394 firewire, and more commonly known as i-link. It is now applied to HDMI, and does much the same thing.

Second thing is that its not proprietary to Pioneer, though to their credit they have usually been first to introduce it. Sony have the same thing with their players and amps, but they call it HATS. Other manufacturers sometimes have their own names, but this isn't very helpful, as its deceptive and confusing.

Third thing is that it changes the architecture of the digital audio replay chain. You can't just add PQLS or whatever to a player or an amp in isolation and get it to work. Both units have to use it. You're not necessarily limited to same-make pairings, though.

The change in architecture comes from the position of the audio master clock. Conventionally, this is in the player, and the timing info from the clock travels over the digital audio link to the amp, where it is used by the DACs to regenerate the analogue audio signal. This is convenient, legacy method of carrying digital audio, but also a poor one. With SPDIF, the audio data corrupts the audio clock, and with HDMI, the video clock corrupts the audio clock (in simple terms!).

All this is bad, and causes jitter, which degrades the SQ. The root cause of the problem lies with the clock being in the transport, instead of the amp. The clock signal travels to the amp to achieve syncronisation between them, but that journey causes jitter. What's ideal is a master clock at the DAC, in the amp. The transport should then be synchronised to the amp, rather than the other way round. So ideally, the clock should travel from the amp to the player, not the other way rfound.

This is what PQLS achieves. A PQLS receiver contains the master audio clock, and timing info is transmitted from the amp the transport. Therefore the transport is "synchronised" to the amp (albeit loosely). This architecture is quite good enough to ensure all the data is read and relayed accurately, but now the master clock is alongside the DACs, and will suffer minimal degradation. This doesn't eliminate jitter, but it does eliminate the jitter from the transport. This is simply because the trasnport if only generating audio data (ones and zeros) and is no longer generating the audio clock.

This is brilliant, but sadly it only works with audio discs. With DVD & BDs, the player still has to generate the clock because the audio has to be synchronised to the video.

Nick
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