Official Pioneer SC-05 and SC-07 Owners Thread - Page 92 - AVS Forum
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post #2731 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

.................................
First, people for better or worse are always interested in the POWER of an amp or AVR. Let's put this to rest right out of the shoot. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL AVRs I've ever experienced. I can't add, nor detract from what everyone else has said. It sounds like it at least equals my separate power amp (EMOTIVA LPA-1), it probably exceeds it. As David Vaughn said, the ICE amps can play at insane levels with no sign of clipping or compression. It just puts out gobs and gobs of power, without breaking a sweat. If I didn't know better (and read the Ultimate AV tests), I'd swear Pioneer was lying to us about the amount of power the SC 05 is capable of....by a significant amount. Unless you're in something MUCH larger than my 17'X20' room (with an open end, no less), and you're sitting MUCH further away than my 12' sitting position, I can't imagine doing any better on the power side of things. The one caveat (again, as people have mentioned, turn it on for a few minutes to let things warm up a bit) is it sounds just a wee bit bright when first fired up. But, that went away quickly.

MCACC....Plugged in the Mic and let it do it's thing. Didn't change any of the settings. I've always been a proponent of Pioneer's MCACC over Audyssey. Now, I remember why. This iteration of MCACC does a lot more than the earlier iteration I experienced with the 59 TXi. Compared to Audyssey, bass response is better, the soundstage is MUCH more cohesive AND enveloping than what I experienced with Audyssey. Phase control, standing wave, as well as reverb were additions from the last MCACC implementation I saw. Don't know how much that made a difference in the sound, but it was significant, in all good ways..........................

There is one thing that I've been curious about concerning the MCACC on the 05/07 vs. the MCACC on my previous receiver (the 49TXi). Since your 59TXi is fairly similar to the 49TXi I will address this to you, realizing that you did (I think) had another AVR in between your 59TXi and your SC05.

Anyway, I have my SC07 set up in the same room, in the same position, and with the same speakers and same seating (all in the same position) as I had my 49TXi. I find that when I run the MCACC setup on the SC07, the resulting SPL at my primary seating position seems to be considerably lower than what the resulting SPL was when I ran the MCACC setup on the 49TXi. I find this to be the case both during the setup process (when the AVR sets itself to 0db) and after the setup is complete (during normal listening).

For instance, when viewing TV with my wife, I would normally have the volume set to -27db (tops) as indicated on the 49TXi display. Any louder and my wife would complain. With the SC07 I can have the volume set to -20db as indicated on the SC07 display, before getting any complaints. This is with the same program material (typically like CSI).

I know that people will say that every volume control is different, which is true. But 0db is (should be) 0db as a calibration point. And 0db just simply does not sound as LOUD on the 07 as on the 49. Nor does -27db or anything between.

I also notice that (to me) the 07 sound just doesn't seem to be "as full" as the sound from my 49. It could be that this lack of "fullness" translates to less loud. I've also noticed that the MCACC in my 07 sets the level down on many of my speakers by about -7db or -8db. The 49 set them down also, but not by so much.

I guess I'm just curious if you've noticed anything similar between your 59TXi and your SC05.

Comments?

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post #2732 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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graphicguy,
Also here..
Page 92

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2733 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 03:38 PM
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interesting comments, I found my SC05 produced stonking surround fields - really immersed you - and the trebles were silky smooth sounding - BUT I found the bass was not as good as other receivers I'd tried, including my Pioneer 45TX - perhaps just my speakers are quite hard to drive (6 ohm)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

There is one thing that I've been curious about concerning the MCACC on the 05/07 vs. the MCACC on my previous receiver (the 49TXi). Since your 59TXi is fairly similar to the 49TXi I will address this to you, realizing that you did (I think) had another AVR in between your 59TXi and your SC05.

Anyway, I have my SC07 set up in the same room, in the same position, and with the same speakers and same seating (all in the same position) as I had my 49TXi. I find that when I run the MCACC setup on the SC07, the resulting SPL at my primary seating position seems to be considerably lower than what the resulting SPL was when I ran the MCACC setup on the 49TXi. I find this to be the case both during the setup process (when the AVR sets itself to 0db) and after the setup is complete (during normal listening).

For instance, when viewing TV with my wife, I would normally have the volume set to -27db (tops) as indicated on the 49TXi display. Any louder and my wife would complain. With the SC07 I can have the volume set to -20db as indicated on the SC07 display, before getting any complaints. This is with the same program material (typically like CSI).

I know that people will say that every volume control is different, which is true. But 0db is (should be) 0db as a calibration point. And 0db just simply does not sound as LOUD on the 07 as on the 49. Nor does -27db or anything between.

I also notice that (to me) the 07 sound just deosn't seem to be "as full" as the sound from my 49. It could be that this lack of "fullness" translates to less loud. I've also noticed that the MCACC in my 07 sets the level down on many of my speakers by about -7db or -8db. The 49 set them down also, but not by so much.

I guess I'm just curious if you've noticed anything similar between your 59TXi and your SC05.

Comments?

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post #2734 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Great review, graphicguy! Thank you for sharing with us.
More please!
your review has been added
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...4#post14864114

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
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post #2735 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

interesting comments, I found my SC05 produced stonking surround fields - really immersed you - and the trebles were silky smooth sounding - BUT I found the bass was not as good as other receivers I'd tried, including my Pioneer 45TX - perhaps just my speakers are quite hard to drive (6 ohm)

Have you tried this, markabuckley?
all I could find regarding bass (except for boundary gain compensation) is note 2 on page 57:

2 If you have a subwoofer and like lots of bass, it may seem logical to select LARGE for your front speakers and PLUS for the subwoofer. This may not, however, yield the best bass results. Depending on the speaker placement of your room you may actually experience a decrease in the amount of bass due low frequency cancellations. In this case, try changing the position or direction of speakers. If you can’t get good results, listen to the bass response with it set to PLUS and YES or the front speakers set to LARGE and SMALL alternatively and let your ears judge which sounds best. If you’re having problems, the easiest option is to route all the bass sounds to the subwoofer by selecting SMALL for the front speakers.

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post #2736 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 04:04 PM
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ta - wasn't lack of bass (if anything slightly too much) - all speakers set to small, both 50 and 80 hz crossover

just was not tight sounding - not compared to the older Pios anyway (IMO)
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post #2737 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

I find that when I run the MCACC setup on the SC07, the resulting SPL at my primary seating position seems to be considerably lower than what the resulting SPL was when I ran the MCACC setup on the 49TXi. I find this to be the case both during the setup process (when the AVR sets itself to 0db) and after the setup is complete (during normal listening).

For instance, when viewing TV with my wife, I would normally have the volume set to -27db (tops) as indicated on the 49TXi display. Any louder and my wife would complain. With the SC07 I can have the volume set to -20db as indicated on the SC07 display, before getting any complaints. This is with the same program material (typically like CSI).

Comments?

I can comment, since I've owned the 49TXi, 59Txi and now the 09. I've commented on this several times in both the 09 owner's thread and this one.

The advanced MCACC in the SC series sets all channels, including the subwoofer outputs, 6 dB lower than the previous MCACC in the 49/59 models. I have a detailed spreadsheet showing all the readings & every one in every mode is exactly 6 dB lower. Your own personal experience comparing listening levels confirms the difference, as does mine.

I have input all the 59TXi's settings into my 09 as a custom "music" MCACC preset, and with it, I decrease volume level ~6-7 dB So it all works out.

The reason why they did this, I can only speculate. But IMO, it allows for a better blend of channels if one is using different speakers with different characteristics. In my own case, the center was topped out at +10 dB with the 59TXi & it still sounded low compared to the fronts. Now they are more evenly matched volume-wise, with only a 4 dB difference in the MCACC settings & dialog is much clearer.

If you'd like to see the comparisons I made in the 2 receivers settings, complete with graphs, I posted it the SC-09 owner's thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14034602

Hope this helps explain what you have observed for yourself.

ss9001
Steve

Steve
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post #2738 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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wow Steve,
Thanks for the observation.
You must've been bored that day
I've added this explanation with links to page one.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...3#post14470673

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2739 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I can comment, since I've owned the 49TXi, 59Txi and now the 09. I've commented on this several times in both the 09 owner's thread and this one.

The advanced MCACC in the SC series sets all channels, including the subwoofer outputs, 6 dB lower than the previous.......................

Hope this helps explain what you have observed for yourself.

ss9001
Steve

Steve -

You don't know how much I appreciate this explanation. The difference in apparent volume levels really bugged me, and I couldn't rationalize why there should be such a difference. But your finding of 6db corresponds almost exactly to the difference that I found as indicated the (front panel) display levels between the SC07 and the 49TXi, for the equivalent SPL as detected by my ear. And working from memory, I would have to say that the MCACC settings for the channel levels are probably about -6db off of the levels that my 49TXi set, just as you indicated.

I had even thought previously of increasing the level of each channel by adding 4db to 6db or so to each of the settings made by the SC07's MCACC. That sounds similar to what you did in replicating your 59's settings in the SC09.

But all of this doesn't explain to me why 0db should be less (lower SPL) on the SC07 than on the 49. Shouldn't 0db "Reference Level" be the same SPL across the board? I thought that was part of what calibration was all about............


Dave

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post #2740 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

You must've been bored that day

Just anal!

ss9001

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post #2741 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post

Now, my Pio is SR+ compatible though, the 9th gen Pio plasmas do not have SR+, just SR so YMMV.

I assumed the newest Kuros would all be SR+, but you are right--it is SR only. I was hoping to get a new console to hold my new toys, but I think I will get the electronics set up first and see what works. If I can operate everying with only the plasma visible, then I will get a console with solid doors, if not, then glass or some kind of IR repeater.
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post #2742 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 06:42 PM
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FWIW, On my old VSX-1014tx, MCACC set the channel trims almost exactly as the SC-05 sets them now for me. I have the same speakers in the same position. Its kinda weired that the 49/59 would set them 6db higher. Maybe the 49/59 MCACC was flawed?

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post #2743 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

FWIW, On my old VSX-1014tx, MCACC set the channel trims almost exactly as the SC-05 sets them now for me. I have the same speakers in the same position. Its kinda weired that the 49/59 would set them 6db higher. Maybe the 49/59 MCACC was flawed?

I had been thinking of trying the mic from my 49TXi to calibrate my 07. I remember discussions from years ago about how the mic was an integral part of the MCACC system. How it's frequency response and sensitivity could affect the settings that MCACC chooses. How you couldn't use just "any" mic, only the one supplied with the AVR. It might be interesting to see how or if using the older mic changes the calibration and channel levels.

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post #2744 of 17097 Old 11-25-2008, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurylian View Post

I assumed the newest Kuros would all be SR+, but you are right--it is SR only. I was hoping to get a new console to hold my new toys, but I think I will get the electronics set up first and see what works. If I can operate everying with only the plasma visible, then I will get a console with solid doors, if not, then glass or some kind of IR repeater.

SR+ gives you on screen displays whereas SR doesn't, that is the only difference. That being said, you should be able to hook up an SR cable to your 9th gen Pio and operate your AVR through the plasma. The only problem in your case is that with only SR and with a console with solid doors, you will not be able to see what sound modes, volume, etc. appear on screen (they only appear with SR+). I have an SR+ cable from my 05FD BD player (which is only SR) to my SC-07 and then my SC-07 to my 150FD (which is SR+) and I can control both through my plasma display. Note that once you use the SR cables, you cannot use the IR on either the SC-07 or the 05FD, you must point the remote to the IR sensor on the plasma.
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post #2745 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 03:08 AM
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Hi

I got my SC-LX71 yesterday and am having a problem connecting up my HTPC. I cant get video over hdmi when using the multi channel source for audio.

If I assign a component input as video in mutli channel set up it works fine but my HTPC has dvi to hdmi and analogue for sound.

Anyone else found this or a workaround ?

Thanks
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post #2746 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 04:32 AM
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In regards to those who may have experienced audio drops with DD+ codec on HD DVD titles, pioneer has sent me an email back and I quote

"Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics, Inc.
I have forwarded your question to the Pioneer product engineers for a response.

Thank You,

Reinaldo
Customer Service Representative"

Hope they dont just gaff this off and will actually look into it. I know HD DVD is a dead format, however I do plan on keeping the select titles in my library and would like for the Elite to perform as it should. Overall yes Im content, no one lives in a perfect world, just one of those things that happen and I hope they can work it out.

On another note, excellent write up Graphicguy, you'll definitely love the Elite, I have zero complaints with owning mine, its a gorgeous machine that can handle the job. We run into a few bugs here and there, but what piece of electronics today doesnt. Enjoy it, as most of us here are as well.

Click the link to see pics of my home theater

http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/q...oom/?start=all
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post #2747 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raid5 View Post

Hi

I got my SC-LX71 yesterday and am having a problem connecting up my HTPC. I cant get video over hdmi when using the multi channel source for audio.

If I assign a component input as video in mutli channel set up it works fine but my HTPC has dvi to hdmi and analogue for sound.

Anyone else found this or a workaround ?

Thanks

IIRC, if you use HDMI input you can't change the audio input assignment (well you can on the menu but it won't work in actuality)

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post #2748 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

I think we're safe for now, ccotenj

lol... yea, sounds like he likes it...

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my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

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post #2749 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 06:34 AM
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WS....I'm probably the wrong person to ask regarding the "volume meter" question. I'm one of those people who turn an amp, or AVR up until I'm satisfied with the volume. And, I give little weight to the number shown on the AVR.

My listening level on the Marantz settled in at about -17 to -15. I noted on the SC 05, I settled in at around -24 on it's vol control. But, that clocks pretty closely to what Steve found. That is, with this iteration of MCACC, on an absolute scale, my 59 TXi was around -30 on the vol scale in reference to my normal listening level.

Understand, I listen loud. I've got a fairly good size room. And, I'm about 12' away from where my front speakers are, at my preferred listening position.

Assuming for a moment that reference level is "0", anything above or below that has no relation to the SPL you're hearing, from manufacturer to manufacturer, or even model to model. That's why I don't put much stock in them.

I made one slight correction to the set up. I dialed back my HSU subW a bit, as it was rattling the pictures on my wall. I'm still playing with the vol setting on the sub to get it "just right". But, I do that anyway when I put a new amp or AVR in my system. Not that Audyssey or MCACC doesn't set it up according to the readings. It's that the sub is the hardest piece to dial in when it comes to a new set up. I'm of the mind that it should be seamless....to the point where you can't tell where the mains fall off, and the sub takes over. I'm a stickler on that point. Sometimes it takes me a few days of "tweaking" to get it there. But, I do get it (and forget it) eventually.

Most every audio company's gear has their own signature "sound". Some gear sounds "warm", others sound "dynamic". Rarely are they both, at the same time. Pioneer is no different. They're known for their "warm" sound (as is Marantz). I think warm is the wrong nomenclature. "Powerfully warm"? "Dynamically warm"? "Warmly detailed"? "Accurate?"

I'm not a person who tries to describe in words what my ears are telling me. Besides, there's way too much hyperbole in the AV field anyway. But, I'd say all those traits above are apt descriptions.

I dialed up Marvin Gaye's "Trouble Man" last night on DVD-A. The very beginning snare snap was exactly what you expect. The pursuant Xylophone notes were well rounded, as you'd expect. Speaker enclosures disappear. Vocals are "real" (no chestiness). Just "smooth" Marvin Gaye.

Another favorite is a group that has had a modicum of success (one diskful). Dishwalla creates "crunchy" guitars, with acoustic accompaniments and emotive vocals. I've got the "dual disk" of their best disk......Opaline. When you're able to describe guitars as "crunchy", when you can pinpoint where the instruments and vocals are in the soundstage, when all the loud bits with instruments are readily indentifiable, without getting lost, you know you're listening to something special. The SC 05 does that.

DSOTM...everybody has heard the SACD (You have, haven't you?). "The Great Gig in the Sky" contains some soaring female vocals. On lesser systems, they can be harsh. Smooth and soaring are the way they come across on the SC 05.

I haven't heard my multi-channel disks sound so good since I i-linked my 59TXi and 59 AVi together.

Another DVD-A favorite....YES....Fragile. Aargh....it wouldn't play in my Oppo. Looking, it has a deep gash. Trying to find another one, but it seems the DVD-A of this disk is out of print. If anyone knows where I can find this disk (and no, I refuse to pay $50 for it on ebay) let me know.

This is too long already. I'll keep giving impressions if you guys want to hear them.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #2750 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Graphicsguy;
Yes, please.. your reviews are very well thought out,understandable, and good reading.
Thanks for taking the time to share with us. If you want to share pictures, that would be great too!

Quote:


I'll keep giving impressions if you guys want to hear them.

Too bad you don't have a BDP-05/51.. would love to read your thoughts on the PQLS..

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post #2751 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raid5 View Post

Hi

I got my SC-LX71 yesterday and am having a problem connecting up my HTPC. I cant get video over hdmi when using the multi channel source for audio.

If I assign a component input as video in mutli channel set up it works fine but my HTPC has dvi to hdmi and analogue for sound.

Anyone else found this or a workaround ?

Thanks

Raid5;

Check page 118 on the manual..

Basically, they're saying you have two options:

Option 1:
Go with analog connections from your HTPC into the LX71 (SC-05) along with the appropriate audio connection, and let the receiver convert the analog video signal to a digital HDMI signal to your display

or Option 2:
Connect your HTPC directly to your display and route the audio through the reciever.

.. If you find another way, please let us know.. good luck

BTW, congratulations, and welcome!

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
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post #2752 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 08:52 AM
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I had/have 2 home theaters - Lexicon MC-12HD with Martin Logans and Denon 3808 with Mirage - and one music only room with a tube amp and JBLs. First off, although Denon makes a solid receiver, I have previously owned the 49 and 74 and like Pio Elite's sound and have generally preferred MCAAC EQ to Audyssey in my main seating area. Audyssey is great for multiple seats, but I watch/listen by myself 80% of the time, and when I watch with others, they are impressed regardless and would never notice the subtle improvements the Audyssey imparts.

Deciding to also convert my music only to home theater, I thought I would try out the SC-05 and the new icepower amps. Wow, the unit so blew me away, I switched it out with my Lexicon for a spin. Since I use all digital sources now, there was literally no difference in the pre-amp section with the Lexicon and the Pio had some advantages due to being a more current model. I am sure the Lex would do better with analog, but I had no need to test it.

But, the main reason I have separates is my Martin Logans' (and the JBL synthesis system before) need for clean power. No matter how hard I pushed the volume I could not get the SC-05 amps to sound strained in any way; just smooth and silky with plenty of punch. My Lexicon LX-7 amp is a beauty, but I could no longer see the advantage of keeping it for my room.

Needless to say, I sold the Lex set-up, went with the SC-05 for my main theater and pocketed some extra cash for the Holidays. Knowing my habits, I will want to try something else in another 6 months for no real reason, but for now I have zero complaints with the SC-05.

Scott
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post #2753 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 09:01 AM
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Just a couple of other observations, I mentioned that the best my CDs/DVD-As/SACDs ever sounded was with the 59 TXi/59 AVi combo.

Using the Oppo with the Marantz, I was never able to achieve that overall "goodness". Not that it was bad.....just not as good.

I thought it was the Oppo's problem (if you could call it a problem) up until now. I was wrong. I've recovered the sound I loved before by inserting the SC 05 into the mix.

I'd love to try the PQLS with any of Pioneer's BD players. That said, I'm of the mind "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". My current set up, as it stands right now, ain't broke.

Would it sound better with PQLS using a Pio BD player? Or will it just sound different? Plus, adding the Pio BD player, I'd be losing the rock solid PS3 for BD. And, I'd also lose the capability to play SACDs. Unless, I'm missing something and the Pio can play multi-ch SACDs over HDMI.

If I thought I could retain the ability to play all of my disks, audio and video, and have the same (or better) performance from a Pio BD player, I'd dump the Oppo, and use the PS3 as a gaming machine, only.

From what I'm hearing the Pio BD players have their own sets of issues, though.

Right now, I'm pleased with all of my gear. See no reason to change it out, unless someone can give me compelling reason to do so (always a possibility).

Was reviewing the MCACC settings last night. Curiously, it set the L/R speakers as LARGE, but set the center as small. Not a big deal except the center uses the same drivers as all my other speakers.

Also, the MCACC asked me to turn my sub's volume up when it was emitting the test tones. Audyssey in the Marantz told me to turn it down when I set it up. No matter, I had/have to tweak it to get it to where I like it.

Re-ran MCACC again last night. It came away with the identical settings used when I first ran it. That wasn't the case with Audyssey. Every time I ran it, it came away with different settings, even if I ran the routines back-to-back.

Obviously, I'm going to do some more experimentation as time goes on.

I'll focus on more DVD and BD watching/listening for a bit since I've already done some testing with music

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post #2754 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

I recommend an Airport Express feeding the SC via optical.. you can then setup the Airport as a WDS, and connect the Ethernet on the Express to the SC and you've got network.

You can also use the iPhone to remote your library.. it's pretty cool..

FilmMixer....I'll give that a shot. Sounds simple enough. It'd be pretty cool to play a playlist from my Iphone, over my HT, while the Iphone is resting in my pocket.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #2755 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 09:08 AM
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I'm genuinely amazed you guys would put the SC-05 as sounding better than the 49/59TX ... and if so it must be down to specific speaker setups/appropriate impedances etc

how did you rate the 3808 vs the SC05 ?
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post #2756 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by scottd327 View Post

I had/have 2 home theaters - Lexicon MC-12HD with Martin Logans and Denon 3808 with Mirage - and one music only room with a tube amp and JBLs. First off, although Denon makes a solid receiver, I have previously owned the 49 and 74 and like Pio Elite's sound and have generally preferred MCAAC EQ to Audyssey in my main seating area. Audyssey is great for multiple seats, but I watch/listen by myself 80% of the time, and when I watch with others, they are impressed regardless and would never notice the subtle improvements the Audyssey imparts.

Deciding to also convert my music only to home theater, I thought I would try out the SC-05 and the new icepower amps. Wow, the unit so blew me away, I switched it out with my Lexicon for a spin. Since I use all digital sources now, there was literally no difference in the pre-amp section with the Lexicon and the Pio had some advantages due to being a more current model. I am sure the Lex would do better with analog, but I had no need to test it.

But, the main reason I have separates is my Martin Logans' (and the JBL synthesis system before) need for clean power. No matter how hard I pushed the volume I could not get the SC-05 amps to sound strained in any way; just smooth and silky with plenty of punch. My Lexicon LX-7 amp is a beauty, but I could no longer see the advantage of keeping it for my room.

Needless to say, I sold the Lex set-up, went with the SC-05 for my main theater and pocketed some extra cash for the Holidays. Knowing my habits, I will want to try something else in another 6 months for no real reason, but for now I have zero complaints with the SC-05.

Scott,
Welcome to the ICE CLUB!
Thanks for sharing your impressions..
Sounds like you have one (2) sweet setups!
Glad the SC-05 surprised you in a good way. (we hear a lot of that here)

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
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post #2757 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Raid5;

Check page 118 on the manual..

Basically, they're saying you have two options:

Option 1:
Go with analog connections from your HTPC into the LX71 (SC-05) along with the appropriate audio connection, and let the receiver convert the analog video signal to a digital HDMI signal to your display

or Option 2:
Connect your HTPC directly to your display and route the audio through the reciever.

.. If you find another way, please let us know.. good luck

BTW, congratulations, and welcome!

Yep I've done option 2

Thanks very much..loving this receiver ..can I ask another do people generally rely on the auto set up or are they self calibrating ?

Thanks again
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post #2758 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markabuckley View Post

I'm genuinely amazed you guys would put the SC-05 as sounding better than the 49/59TX ... and if so it must be down to specific speaker setups/appropriate impedances etc

how did you rate the 3808 vs the SC05 ?

mark....while I don't have a BB/Magnolia near me, I do travel a lot. When I hit a bigger city, I always make it a point to hit one of those Magnolia stores.

While, I don't think you can make an educated guess on an AVR (or any other gear, for that matter) in a 30 minute demo, in a showroom using speakers different than what you have, in a room different than what you're used to. I have compared the 4308 vs the SC 05 at a Magnolia about 6 weeks ago.

Whether we want to admit it or not, all of us are biased to a certain degree. I know in my case, based on past experience, I show a bias towards Elite and Marantz over something like Denon or Onkyo/Integra. I have faith in certain brands that they'll perform as advertised.

Anyway, the sales person I spoke to gave me some "gobbledy gook" about how Magnolia carries only "the best of the best" (go tell that to your local conrad johnson dealer and let me know their response to that).

He did a little comparison using the 4308 and "A/B'd" it with the SC 05. He tried to convince me that the 4308 had a better low end. In reality, what he was hearing was a "bloated" low end. Don't know how he had the controls set up, but it was clear there was some boosting going on with the Denon. Some consider that "better". I don't. Not that Denon doesn't make good stuff. They do. I thought the SC 05 was better. Sales person was astonished I felt that way.

Personally, while I'll probably be chastised for saying this, but I rely strictly on my memory when playing music/movies that I'm very familiar with....having watched/listened to, dozens of times. I want to make certain the playing field is level, too. Moreover, I rely on my familiarity with the program material, to tell me the qualities of any piece of AV gear.

I don't put much stock in "showroom" demos.

The 49/59TXi were great pieces. While the SC retains their sonic signature, in my experience they improve upon them for a few different reasons.

1) Different connection types (toslink vs HDMI)
2) More advanced MCACC
3) ICE amps

Those are the biggies. I heard an immediate difference between toslink and HDMI (in HDMI's favor) using my Marantz.

The "old" MCACC did room correction using virtual EQ. The new MCACC also adjusts for standing waves.

When I've heard digital amps in the past, I was left unimpressed with either their power, or their sound....sometimes both. That was my biggest ? before making the jump. Pioneer has removed both of those negatives for me.

To me, that's where the real differences lay between the old vs the new.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #2759 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 11:56 AM
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Quote:


how did you rate the 3808 vs the SC05 ?

I did not do an A/B test between them, but I also had the 3808 in for my Lexicon for a week and, although it was OK, I could not wait to get my Lex combo back. Not so with the SC-05, so that should tell you something.

Thinking about it, I would compare them as follows:

Denon 3808 Pros:

Audysssey (but I prefer MCAAC, others may disagree)
Regular firmware fixes through Ethernet (although the SC-05 doesn't appear to need any fixes)
OSD Volume over HDMI
Denon Link (with Denon universal players)
Very nicely designed, but complicated, GUI for setup

PE SC-05 Pros:

MCAAC
Looks of the unit
Superior DACs
Much stronger amps - not just measurements, but "sounds stronger, cleaner"
Easy to use GUI (big improvement over previous Pioneers)

Both are a little weak on video processing, which I do not use. So strictly on sound quality, I would pick the Pioneer although the Denon is certainly fine for most applications.

Scott
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post #2760 of 17097 Old 11-26-2008, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

...........................
Was reviewing the MCACC settings last night. Curiously, it set the L/R speakers as LARGE, but set the center as small. Not a big deal except the center uses the same drivers as all my other speakers.
.....................................

This was the case with my system as well. If I remember correctly, the 49TXi set all of my speakers as large. I know for sure it set the front 3 as large. For reference, I use Klipsch RF5's, RC7, and RB75's at the sides and rears.

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They consider THIS
normal on a two month old set..
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