"Official" RX-V1900/RX-V3900 Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 6050 Old 10-21-2008, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone want to hook up a DVD player with component and figure out what this odd OSD over component restriction is?

I am also very curious about PReP. Does anyone have the HQV disc or suitable test disc and a player that can output 480p over HDMI to see if PReP improves the video?

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #272 of 6050 Old 10-21-2008, 06:19 PM
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Picked up an RXV1900. My tv sucks and doesn't work with any new hdmi receiver I've tried. I only wanted it for lossless audio for my ps3. So I found a work around using the breakout components for video and hdmi to the receiver for audio and it works great. Anyway, do I still have to add the +10db gain for the ps3 or will the receiver automatically boost the lfe?
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post #273 of 6050 Old 10-21-2008, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick W View Post

Volume and level changes show up OSD overlaid unless Short Message Display is Off.

That's good then, you get the choice. Personally I would turn short messages off because I can see the front panel, but I know they're important to many people.
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post #274 of 6050 Old 10-21-2008, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Anyone want to hook up a DVD player with component and figure out what this odd OSD over component restriction is?

Wouldn't that need to be a player that upscales over component (I think the restriction is only for 720p and up)?
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post #275 of 6050 Old 10-21-2008, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Wouldn't that need to be a player that upscales over component (I think the restriction is only for 720p and up)?

I think you're right. Now that you mention it, the restriction should not effect too many people.

I was just curious about it. It won't effect me.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #276 of 6050 Old 10-21-2008, 07:32 PM
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Talked to my dealer today after reading the post yesterday about some Magnolia/BB's having the 3900 in and some customers like Frosty and DickW able to get their units and was told that is a very good sign because they usually get their shipments 2-3 days after Magnolia/BB. I have to go out of town earlier than expected this week/weekend for business, so hopefully the begining of next week I will be having my new toys delivered(3900 and Paradigm Monitor series speakers to go with it).
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post #277 of 6050 Old 10-21-2008, 08:24 PM
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Does OSD "short message" work for volume and input selection through component out to the display or just HDMI?

HD component connections are more bullet proof (no HDCP, handshake, DRM, or "repeater"/relay restriction issues) even though I have HDMI on almost all of my junk. Also component is about 100 times easier for whole house distribution systems. My AVR will be buried in a closet so OSD issues and use through component connections are key to me.

How long does it stay on screen? Not a full 10 seconds I hope.

Does the high standby power consumption disappear if the "HDMI pass through when off" feature is disabled?

Thanks.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #278 of 6050 Old 10-21-2008, 10:49 PM
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Does the 3900 have an internal fan?
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post #279 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 05:35 AM
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Fan? Not that I can hear or feel.
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post #280 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 06:11 AM
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Wow this receiver is really SWEET!!!

Only got to play with it for about 3 hrs but I am finding all sorts of nice features. The Net radio really works well. Running my speaker set up in Front mode sounds is incredible. YPAO still says my front 2 speakers are out of phase. LOL I know this W-1 shows up for a lot of people. Have already renamed my inputs and renamed my remote inputs. Will mess with the sound field more tonight. Found it strange that the only way I could get my bass lows back was to run my speakers in Front EQ mode. But hey if it sound good like that I am leaving it alone.

Also found out last night that if I use the pass thru for HDMI and set the Audio to amp+TV I can not get full Dolby Digital when I try and play my PS3 blue ray or 360 games. I only get 2 channel sound due to my TV only accepting 2.0 PCM. However when I switch the pass thru audio back to AMP I get my Dolby Digital back. I think this is because the TV it telling the AMP it can only accept 2 channel audio so that what it sets it self to. Gotta love HDMI. GRRRRRR

Oh you may ask why bother with the audio pass thru when you have such a sweet AMP. I was trying to make it easy for my children to just come down stairs and turn on just the TV and have sound come out of the TV. I did solve that problem by running a set of component and audio cables from the D* to the TV just to by-pass the AMP for them. Now when I want to watch TV I just switch to HDMI and listen thru the AMP for TV sound. Everyone is happy now.

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post #281 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDave View Post

Found it strange that the only way I could get my bass lows back was to run my speakers in Front EQ mode. But hey if it sound good like that I am leaving it alone.

Don't put too much faith in the YPAO results. Often you just have to change the subwoofer level to where you want it after running YPAO (and make sure it set your fronts to small, not large).
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post #282 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Don't put too much faith in the YPAO results. Often you just have to change the subwoofer level to where you want it after running YPAO (and make sure it set your fronts to small, not large).

Why set the front to small, always?
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post #283 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sitron View Post

Why set the front to small, always?

For movies all channels are full range (they can all contain frequencies as low as the dedicated LFE channel), so you need the low bass from all channels re-directed to the sub (i.e. all speakers should be set to small).

For two channel music you might not want to use a sub if your mains play low enough, but usually even here a good sub adds something that your mains can't give you. And you can have two setups stored in memory if you want for easy comparison (one with all speakers as small, and another for two channel listening w/o sub).
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post #284 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I have always preferred small. Whether that's the highest fidelity or not, I could not say. When my Yamaha YPAO set my bass to both, I especially did not care for it. That sounds schizoid.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #285 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I have always preferred small. Whether that's the highest fidelity or not, I could not say. When my Yamaha YPAO set my bass to both, I especially did not care for it. That sounds schizoid.

I don't see any reason to have the "both" setting. And in the Audyssey thread the guy who designed that stuff always tells people to set speakers to small. There are other reasons that don't necessarily apply to every receiver, for example the sub channel often gets more accurate EQ than the others (because low bass requires high resolution filters), and you need all the low bass going to the sub to benefit from that.

Also room modes (standing waves) are easier to control when you can change the position of the single speaker (the sub) that's causing them. And the Yamaha Z11 has a special standing wave correction PEQ that only applies to the sub channel, so even people with powered subs in their mains would benefit from setting those speakers to small.

But the good thing about the Yamaha system memories is you can easily compare several different setups and see which you prefer. Each room behaves differently.
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post #286 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDave View Post

Also found out last night that if I use the pass thru for HDMI and set the Audio to amp+TV I can not get full Dolby Digital when I try and play my PS3 blue ray or 360 games. I only get 2 channel sound due to my TV only accepting 2.0 PCM. However when I switch the pass thru audio back to AMP I get my Dolby Digital back. I think this is because the TV it telling the AMP it can only accept 2 channel audio so that what it sets it self to. Gotta love HDMI. GRRRRRR

I was hoping that you could get TV sound via the Standbye Through setting. And that would be two channel obviously.

But if you turned the receiver on, and did not set the audio output on, then you would be able to send any audio signal into the receiver and not just two channel PCM.

Does that work? But not for you because you want to leave the receiver on and STILL get the TV audio?

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post #287 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sitron View Post

Why set the front to small, always?

There are very few folks who have main speakers so large that they cannot benefit by adding a separate "sub" woofer to handle 80Hz (or so) and below.
Keeping the lowest bass energy out of the woofers almost always makes them sound better in the upper bass range.

Sure you can have a sytem with very good main woofers and a poor boomy sub where it actually sounds better not using the sub . . . but the general advice is to start with a single global crossover frequency of 80 Hz and send all the LFE and redirected bass from all speakers to sub(s).

YPAO and some other auto EQ systems reports/sets things based on how low a speaker can play it's test tones -- not how good it will sound on a mixed frequency musical signal with bass content that low.
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post #288 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 09:11 AM
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I'd love to hear some opinions on the quality of the video processor on the 3900, specifically its deinterlacing and upscaling quality.

Also, for those running game consoles through the 3900, does using the video processor introduce any noticible input lag?
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post #289 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I was hoping that you could get TV sound via the Standbye Through setting. And that would be two channel obviously.

But if you turned the receiver on, and did not set the audio output on, then you would be able to send any audio signal into the receiver and not just two channel PCM.

Does that work? But not for you because you want to leave the receiver on and STILL get the TV audio?

***You can get TV sound through standbye setting however when you go to listen to that same sound though the amp after muting your TV it will only be in two channel due to the TV requesting two channel audio. That is unless your TV accepts 5.1 over HDMI.

***The way I have it set for me and will work for my family is that I have the, HDMI set Audio=AMP for when I am watching TV with the AMP on, no sound thru the TV. And for the rest of the family when I am not there. I have it. AMP off, no standby, Component and Audio straight from the SAT box to the TV Component in and Audio in. It really not a big deal.

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post #290 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 12:02 PM
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Yes, you can get sound through TV only in stand-by.

Well...hmmm...for whatever reason my PS3 decided it no longer wants to play nice. It worked when I checked it upon initial set-up (though my 'checking it out' was brief)...now I get nothing - no screen, no sound, can't even get the GUI to overlay...just black screen. And here is what I changed - NADA! I take the PS3 and plug it into the TV (HDMI) and it works...? Uhh...what?

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post #291 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDave View Post

...however when you go to listen to that same sound though the amp after muting your TV it will only be in two channel due to the TV requesting two channel audio.

You confirmed that? I guess it makes sense unless you changed inputs thus negotiating a new handshake.

I think HDMI could have solved some of these issues with some more thought. Maybe in future versions, who knows.

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post #292 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 12:13 PM
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Well...I found a couple of 'not being used' HDMI cables, so I am going to start swapping cables around with the PS3, and the 'Out 1' from the Yamahoppie to the TV and see what that does. You never know...

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post #293 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

You confirmed that? I guess it makes sense unless you changed inputs thus negotiating a new handshake.

I think HDMI could have solved some of these issues with some more thought. Maybe in future versions, who knows.

Yep spent 1hr just devoted to that question. Just to make sure I was not tired and not seeing things. I tried this with 3 different inputs, PS3, 360, HD-DVR. All running HDMI. The only way I was going to get more than 2 channel was to have the pass-through audio set to AMP. As soon as I would change it back to AMP+TV audio it would go right to 2.0 channel. I first I was like WTF! But then I got out my TV manual and it stated that is only accepts 2 channel over HDMI. So yeah its the amp working with the TV handshake that causes this. So no biggie I just put the audio to AMP and turn off the Pass-through. whew.........

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post #294 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDave View Post

Yep spent 1hr just devoted to that question. Just to make sure I was not tired and not seeing things. I tried this with 3 different inputs, PS3, 360, HD-DVR. All running HDMI. The only way I was going to get more than 2 channel was to have the pass-through audio set to AMP. As soon as I would change it back to AMP+TV audio it would go right to 2.0 channel. I first I was like WTF! But then I got out my TV manual and it stated that is only accepts 2 channel over HDMI. So yeah its the amp working with the TV handshake that causes this. So no biggie I just put the audio to AMP and turn off the Pass-through. whew.........

You should check EDID info in different settings.
You need new version of Moninfo http://entechtaiwan.net/util/moninfo.shtm
(better to use latest version 2.11.0.744 via Live Update) and computer with DVI/HDMI. After that everything will be clear.
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post #295 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDave View Post

Yep spent 1hr just devoted to that question. Just to make sure I was not tired and not seeing things. I tried this with 3 different inputs, PS3, 360, HD-DVR. All running HDMI. The only way I was going to get more than 2 channel was to have the pass-through audio set to AMP. As soon as I would change it back to AMP+TV audio it would go right to 2.0 channel. I first I was like WTF! But then I got out my TV manual and it stated that is only accepts 2 channel over HDMI. So yeah its the amp working with the TV handshake that causes this. So no biggie I just put the audio to AMP and turn off the Pass-through. whew.........

I was talking about not using 'Amp + TV'. Using standbye mode but with the audio out set to amp only. No big deal, I just thought that the standbye feature would be less useful to people if, after turning on the amp, the source device was still stuck thinking the audio was limited to two channel PCM.

No big deal, thanks for testing this stuff. I will be modifying the first post to include this sort of information. Probably after I get my unit as a picture is worth 1000 words so to speak.

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post #296 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 01:33 PM
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I give up! I might as well get rid of the PoS3

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post #297 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 01:48 PM
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^ HDMI = Highly Dysfunctional with Multiple Inconsistencies.

HD component connections always work and a proper display can convert 1080i to 1080p just fine. The majority of custom installers never use HDMI, they use component.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Still no word on on-screen overlay of short messages over component?... Anyone?....Bueller?

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #298 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 03:00 PM
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^The PoS3 is the only thing I've had issues with, everything else works great via HDMI.

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post #299 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m. zillch View Post

^ HDMI = Highly Dysfunctional with Multiple Inconsistencies.

Absolutely!! I assume the following scenario still happens with the 1900/3900 when using HDMI connections:-
  1. Turn on receiver.
  2. Turn on source (e.g. cable box, PS3 etc.) audio can be heard even though the display is not yet on.
  3. Turn on display audio cuts out for a couple of seconds
The handshake never fails with my set up, but I have 5-10 second video switching time and the audio drop outs during the handshake are a major source of irritation.
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post #300 of 6050 Old 10-22-2008, 03:23 PM
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Well, I put the component on the PoS3, tried using HDMI for audio...had picture but no sound. Funny thing is that it read PCM, showed all speakers in display, etc...but not a peep of sound.

For those who have this with PS3...which model of PS3 (40g, 80g)?

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