"Official" RX-V1900/RX-V3900 Thread - Page 115 - AVS Forum
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post #3421 of 6042 Old 07-31-2009, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toner75 View Post

I am either considering getting the Z7 or the 3900, but since I read here that most of the components up to the pre-out is same, why should I get the Z7? Is the amplifier better in the Z7 than the 3900? Are the DSP chips exactly the same in both units?

I will be using a set of 5.1 Martin Logan speakers which are rated at 4ohm and can go below 2ohm. Which unit will be better if I don't really care about the video processing (bluray only)?

How about getting the 3900 and get a used Krell/Sunfire amplifier? Would that be even better? Thanks

If you are using 4 Ohm speakers then yes you would be better off with a power amp. 4 Ohm speakers will draw more current and overheat the 3900 at high volumes.

Dave
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post #3422 of 6042 Old 07-31-2009, 01:46 PM
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I'll try that and let you know. Thanks.
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post #3423 of 6042 Old 07-31-2009, 02:06 PM
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I'm not sure why, but when I run YPAO, and I get my test results and then click "Yes" to keep them, the speaker level parameters from the test ultimately get slightly altered when they appear in the GUI under "speaker--levels." (an easier way to see these readouts is by pressing "level" button on remote to read levels on the receiver LED). Why are these working parameters slightly different (for some speakers, maybe as much as one db) than they orignally were as listed under "auto setup?"
A couple of other interesting things is that if you go in to the GUI and "reload" the automatic set up parameters, the working levels (as seen by pressing the level button on the remote) stay the same. They don't change from the alterations you made before reloading. I had to manually adjust mine, so they would reflect the reloaded set-up parameters.
Also, let's say I get new test results and they don't match with the working levels. If I save the results to the system memory (1-4) and then recall the save to reload the parameters, the numbers under the auto setup (the actual test numbers) change to reflect the levels as listed under "speakers" in the GUI. In other words, the actual test results become corrupt to match the level parameters used by the receiver.
I realize proof reading this, that this is as clear as mud, but it is a difficult thing to explain. It's like my amp is having difficulty translating the exact parameters listed by the set up test into the working (adjustable) levels of the receiver. Is this a firmware issue?
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post #3424 of 6042 Old 07-31-2009, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawgfin View Post

I'm not sure why, but when I run YPAO, and I get my test results and then click "Yes" to keep them, the speaker level parameters from the test ultimately get slightly altered when they appear in the GUI under "speaker--levels." (an easier way to see these readouts is by pressing "level" button on remote to read levels on the receiver LED). Why are these working parameters slightly different (for some speakers, maybe as much as one db) than they orignally were as listed under "auto setup?"

I don't have a full answer, but I noticed some time ago that with the 1900/3900 the YPAO parameters saved by Receiver Manager started to include an extra value for each speaker called "PEQ Level". I assumed it was something added to the speaker level to compensate for the effect of equalization. For example, assume YPAO initially found that a particular speaker level should be +2.0dB, but all the EQ adjustments to that speaker had negative gain values so the speaker actually ended up playing a little too quietly. It seems YPAO now adds the "PEQ Level" adjustment (say +0.5dB) to the speaker level, so you see +2.5dB instead of +2.0dB when you check levels.

I'm sure that's just as clear as the rest of your post was , and it's just guesswork, but this new PEQ Level parameter that Receiver Manager saves must be used for something like this. You could try asking Yamaha I suppose, it might just be a bug after all.
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post #3425 of 6042 Old 07-31-2009, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

I don't have a full answer, but I noticed some time ago that with the 1900/3900 the YPAO parameters saved by Receiver Manager started to include an extra value for each speaker called "PEQ Level". I assumed it was something added to the speaker level to compensate for the effect of equalization.

It is possible that the "PEQ Level" functions as a level trim as you mentioned. If anyone noticed, the PEQ can only go up to +6dB for each band but can attenuate till -20dB, ie. it is not symmetrical, therefore it is more likely for the PEQ settings determined by YPAO to hover in the -ve region, hence the need for the trim in my opinion.

But I have not seen the "PEQ Level" trim in effect yet on my 1900, when recalled the levels are always the one determined by YPAO (if I don't mess with it).
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post #3426 of 6042 Old 07-31-2009, 07:07 PM
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Thanks for the responses, guys. I called and talked to a second tier tech about the issue. I'm not sure he completely understood what I was saying, it is pretty difficult to explain. He kind of danced around the issue, and told me not to use the reload feature, but to always save to memory instead. He said the first save I make should be the factory settings in slot 4, then the results of the YPAO testing at slot 3. Then, he recommends using numbers 1 and 2 for "messing around."
He said that these receivers are so complicated and have such a steep learning curve, that he thinks that each unit should come with a personal assistant.
Take Care!
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post #3427 of 6042 Old 08-01-2009, 12:03 AM
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I currently own an Onkyo TX-DS 797 receiver, which has generally served me quite well over the last 7 yrs., and am looking to upgrade to a newer unit with HDMI. I've no doubt either the 1900 or the 3900 would be great for Blu-ray (I currently own 51, played over a newer 80G PS3), but I'm curious about their capabilities w. SACDs over HDMI. The Denons I'm looking at (the 2909 and the 3808, assuming there are any around come tax-time next year) will do DSD Direct or convert it to PCM, and I was wondering if the 1900/3900 will, as well. I own 70 SACDs, mainly classical, which I play on a Pioneer DV-47Ai. Would be eventually looking to pair a new receiver with either Sony's SCD-5400ES (ideally), or Oppo's BDP-83; or maybe both. If any of you 1900/3900 owners are currently using either player with your receivers, I'd love any comments on SACD sound quality over HDMI. Thanks! -Tom
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post #3428 of 6042 Old 08-01-2009, 12:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I "think" the 1900/3900 do have HDMI/DSD support. Please double check the manual though. The 2700 did for sure. It used a DAC which did both PCM and DSD. I believe the 3900 uses the same DAC, or a similar one and still supports DSD. But PLEASE double check me by downloading the manual. My DVD changer does SACD, but only over analog, so I have no way of testing DSD direct.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #3429 of 6042 Old 08-01-2009, 06:30 AM
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I connected HDMI 2 output to my bedroom and from Digital video device I connected analog output to MULTI CH INPUT jacks Zone 2.

Can somebody explain to me why the sound is very high? Can't listen at all!
Reducing the sound only reacts then it comes to zero and its muted.
Any ideas?
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post #3430 of 6042 Old 08-01-2009, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomrowe125 View Post

I currently own an Onkyo TX-DS 797 receiver, which has generally served me quite well over the last 7 yrs., and am looking to upgrade to a newer unit with HDMI. I've no doubt either the 1900 or the 3900 would be great for Blu-ray (I currently own 51, played over a newer 80G PS3), but I'm curious about their capabilities w. SACDs over HDMI. The Denons I'm looking at (the 2909 and the 3808, assuming there are any around come tax-time next year) will do DSD Direct or convert it to PCM, and I was wondering if the 1900/3900 will, as well. I own 70 SACDs, mainly classical, which I play on a Pioneer DV-47Ai. Would be eventually looking to pair a new receiver with either Sony's SCD-5400ES (ideally), or Oppo's BDP-83; or maybe both. If any of you 1900/3800 owners are currently using either player with your receivers, I'd love any comments on SACD sound quality over HDMI. Thanks! -Tom

I have the Sony SCDXA5400ES SA-CD player connected via HDMI to the RXV-3900....sound is superb and the 3900 shows "DSD" on the front panel when playing. It is simply amazing the sound that you get with this combo. I listen to mostly multi-channel SACD and could not be happier, after a long search and owning different gear over the years. Sound is big, clear, open, defined, warm, I could go on. Bliss. Good luck.

MNSACD
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post #3431 of 6042 Old 08-01-2009, 01:02 PM
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Just thought I'd provide a quick note that I got the Ipod dock and it works great. Even plays videos up converted to 1080P.

I use the music enhancer setting mostly. Not to shabby a sound for 256 ripped songs.

Close to my DSOTHM SACD playing in the PS3 over HDMI?, well, No, not even close

but still nice just to drop an ipod in and be able to charge it and get good sound all with using the yamaha remote
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post #3432 of 6042 Old 08-01-2009, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrike View Post

I connected HDMI 2 output to my bedroom and from Digital video device I connected analog output to MULTI CH INPUT jacks Zone 2.

Can somebody explain to me why the sound is very high? Can't listen at all!
Reducing the sound only reacts then it comes to zero and its muted.
Any ideas?

Check in the multi-zone setup that you don't have Zone 2 Volume set as "Fixed". If it is, change it to "Variable".
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post #3433 of 6042 Old 08-01-2009, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Check in the multi-zone setup that you don't have Zone 2 Volume set as "Fixed". If it is, change it to "Variable".

Thanks for reply, but it is set to variable.
Initial volume is -5.85
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post #3434 of 6042 Old 08-01-2009, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrike View Post

Thanks for reply, but it is set to variable.
Initial volume is -5.85

The other thing to check is that you are changing the zone 2 volume and not the main volume. It should say Zone 2 on the front panel display when changing the zone 2 volume.

Also, what do you mean by "-5.85" ??
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post #3435 of 6042 Old 08-01-2009, 03:24 PM
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I feel that the owner's manual doesn't do a very good job explaining what these modes are for and the differences between the two. The manual does say that they are recommended for music, and that is just about all the detail I could find. I did change the Pure Direct setting from "audio" to "audio and video" thinking it was some type of stripped down (no frills or extra DSP mode) 5.1 coding. I used it on a dvd using PS3 via HDMI. I wasn't impressed.
Anyone understand what these features are, the differences between them (they both seem to be unprocessed), and how they are best used?
Thanks
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post #3436 of 6042 Old 08-01-2009, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

The other thing to check is that you are changing the zone 2 volume and not the main volume. It should say Zone 2 on the front panel display when changing the zone 2 volume.

Also, what do you mean by "-5.85" ??

It is -58.5 Zone 2 Initial Volume.
Yeah I am controlling Zone 2, as I said it reacts only when it comes to 0, and becomes Mute.
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post #3437 of 6042 Old 08-01-2009, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrike View Post

It is -58.5 Zone 2 Initial Volume.
Yeah I am controlling Zone 2, as I said it reacts only when it comes to 0, and becomes Mute.

That's what it's supposed to do when set to Fixed, so maybe the software is somehow stuck in that mode. I would try setting to Fixed and see how it behaves, then put it back to Variable just in case it fixes the problem. Other than that I'm out of ideas.
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post #3438 of 6042 Old 08-01-2009, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNSACD View Post

I have the Sony SCDXA5400ES SA-CD player connected via HDMI to the RXV-3900....sound is superb and the 3900 shows "DSD" on the front panel when playing. It is simply amazing the sound that you get with this combo. I listen to mostly multi-channel SACD and could not be happier, after a long search and owning different gear over the years. Sound is big, clear, open, defined, warm, I could go on. Bliss. Good luck.

MNSACD

Thanks, MNSACD! Your comment was helpful and much appreciated. SACD playback has been the biggest weakness of my current setup, as SACDs through analog multichannel just don't sound as good to me as CDs through coaxial digital, and I missed out on previous receivers with iLink connections (including the RX-V4600). Guess it's time to start saving my pennies!- Out of curiosity, what speakers are you using? I'm running Def Tech PM700s (l/r) and a CLR 2500, w. old jam-box speakers for surrounds (eventually BP2X surrounds), and no sub (yet).
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post #3439 of 6042 Old 08-01-2009, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawgfin View Post

I feel that the owner's manual doesn't do a very good job explaining what these modes are for and the differences between the two. The manual does say that they are recommended for music, and that is just about all the detail I could find. I did change the Pure Direct setting from "audio" to "audio and video" thinking it was some type of stripped down (no frills or extra DSP mode) 5.1 coding. I used it on a dvd using PS3 via HDMI. I wasn't impressed.
Anyone understand what these features are, the differences between them (they both seem to be unprocessed), and how they are best used?
Thanks

I agree that the manual explains little. Unfortunately, there are few simple answers. And I could probably write for quite awhile. But I won't - highlights only.

Straight mode is your starting point for the best sound in any mode. It will ensure you are decoding most stuff properly, and it will sound great.

If you have a 7.1 speaker setup, try hitting extended surround when watching DVDs to select DPL IIx movie. This will utilize your rear speakers even for 5.1 movies. This may also work well for movies on Cable/Sattelite in 5.1.

For two channel music, you might want to try DPL IIx music (hit surr decode). There are a lot of options here, but DPL IIx music is one of the better sounding ones, and the one I usually use. NRL THX Music seems to be also nice. Of course, you might prefer to use no surround sound on music, which is fine - personal preference.

Some music sounds good to me in 7-channel strereo. 7-channel stereo is also good for diffuse music at parties. Hit the 'stereo' button to select this.

Some movies/shows on cable/sat might be in Dolby Pro Logic. This was a very popular surround sound format popular years ago. It's still used here and there. For example, some sports have surround sound on channels where they can't send the sound in Dolby Digital. Dolby Digital is now common on HD channels and is the standard for DTV.

How do you know a show/movie is in Dolby Surround? You may not. Some shows had a Dolby Logo at the beginning shown. You can choose DPL IIx or Dolby Surround while playing a movie/show you think might be in surround. If it IS, you should hear a well balanced sound. If it's not, you will probably hear all sound from the center speaker only. A bit of experimentation and paying attention and you should figure this out.

That's about it for the main modes. For some kinds of music, there's a few DSP modes you might try out for kicks. Sometimes out of boredom I try something like warehouse (the live music button.) Mostly these sound artificial. Most sound awful, IMO.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #3440 of 6042 Old 08-02-2009, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

That's what it's supposed to do when set to Fixed, so maybe the software is somehow stuck in that mode. I would try setting to Fixed and see how it behaves, then put it back to Variable just in case it fixes the problem. Other than that I'm out of ideas.

Yes it looks it's stacked to Variable, since I can't make any changes to make it Fixed. What should I do?
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post #3441 of 6042 Old 08-02-2009, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrike View Post

Yes it looks it's stacked to Variable, since I can't make any changes to make it Fixed. What should I do?

Did you try both Fixed and Variable to see if they've been switched for some reason? After that, you could try resetting the receiver to factory defaults, but there's no guarantee it will work and you would have to do all your setup again (in the Advanced Setup menu look for INITIALIZE).
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post #3442 of 6042 Old 08-02-2009, 06:16 AM
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Thanks Michael for your post on sound options. I must be sounding pretty bad off in some of my posts for you to take the time to give me a tour of sound possibilities. But, I really needed that, and I'm sure I can't be the only one.
After finding out that my PS3 has to be in bitstream rather than PCM mode to get DPL IIx movie and other extend modes to work out of my back surrounds (yeah, I know, it's that bad with me), I have really been enjoying that particular one as well. Couldn't initially figure why I could get all speakers to work with my CD player and not with my PS3. It has been a little bit frustrating for me, coming from a Sony DA50ES receiver with no HDMI inputs and comparatively little options (hi-tech stuff during its' time).
It's nice to get confirmation about my choices. I too really enjoy both the music and movie DPL IIx modes. For me, this receiver was worth the upgrade and learning curve just for this. I am looking forward to trying some of the other options you have listed in your post, once I get to the point where I can just sit back and enjoy the receiver.
Let me see if I understand you correctly: Straight mode is used underneath all these other sound options (a "starting point") to make sure that your receiver is decoding all of your other selections correctly? In other words, you turn it on and leave it on? What is "pure direct" and is there any harm in using it in "audio/video mode rather than just audio (default)?
I'm currently reading every single post in this thread, but I'm only on page 26 at this time. So I apologize if much of this stuff has been already covered.
Hopefully I'll be able to expand my knowledge base enough provide assistance to others. It is admirable that some of you folks already have your equipment set up and running, but yet you continue to check back to help others just starting out. That's why this forum continues to be valuable.
Thanks Again!
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post #3443 of 6042 Old 08-02-2009, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomrowe125 View Post

Thanks, MNSACD! Your comment was helpful and much appreciated. SACD playback has been the biggest weakness of my current setup, as SACDs through analog multichannel just don't sound as good to me as CDs through coaxial digital, and I missed out on previous receivers with iLink connections (including the RX-V4600). Guess it's time to start saving my pennies!- Out of curiosity, what speakers are you using? I'm running Def Tech PM700s (l/r) and a CLR 2500, w. old jam-box speakers for surrounds (eventually BP2X surrounds), and no sub (yet).

No problem tomrowe125! I should have noted that I'm actually using the 3900 as a pre-pro, with an Emotiva LPA-1 on the pre-outs. I have a 5.1 setup using Polk Audio LSI 15's, LSI/C. and LSI-7's for surrounds. I have a HSU VTF3MK2 subwoofer. The LSI's are 4 ohm and when I used them with an older Sony ES 90 watt per channel receiver it was smoking hot after an hour of listening. The Emotiva doesnt break a sweat driving the LSI's listening to multi-channel surround music, or movies for hours at a time You may find it hard to come by the Sony SCD-XA5400ES right now. They are suppose to be back in stock sometime this month. I got mine a few months ago with a special order through Ultimate Electronics. Good luck!

MNSACD
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post #3444 of 6042 Old 08-02-2009, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Did you try both Fixed and Variable to see if they've been switched for some reason? After that, you could try resetting the receiver to factory defaults, but there's no guarantee it will work and you would have to do all your setup again (in the Advanced Setup menu look for INITIALIZE).

Thanks kriktsemaj99 for all your help, but problem is not solved even with Initial Reset of All.
Let me just explain my setup:
I have HDX1000 Media Player connected with HDMI on DVD input. Audio jacks are connected from player to Speakers Presence Zone 2/Zone 3 SP1. (in my Main living room I have 5.1 setup)

Maybe I have to connect speakers to SP2?
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post #3445 of 6042 Old 08-02-2009, 07:49 PM
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O'kay, I finally got my 3900 receiver and I have hooked it to my network on my Mac. I can use the internet radio but cant get my itunes library. Is there a way to do this...... Thanks.
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post #3446 of 6042 Old 08-02-2009, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawgfin View Post

Let me see if I understand you correctly: Straight mode is used underneath all these other sound options (a "starting point") to make sure that your receiver is decoding all of your other selections correctly? In other words, you turn it on and leave it on?

Pretty much. If you hit the STRAIGHT mode button when the receiver displays STRAIGHT mode, this is the most obvious processing mode for the current situation. The only time STRAIGHT mode would be considered non optimal is when your source has surround sound that's "matrixed" in a stereo mix, like Dolby Pro Logic. In this case, the receiver will not automatically apply Dolby surround processing. You have to manually select it.

Quote:
What is "pure direct" and is there any harm in using it in "audio/video mode rather than just audio (default)?

Pure Direct is a nod to audiophiles who want the simplest processing applied to their music. I don't think Pure Direct will work with video, as it will turn off the video circuits. It may also not be best for music, because it will not use bass management. I would use Pure Direct for music if you prefer the sound. For some speakers this may work well. For other speakers, you may want bass management on, so that your powered sub is utilized.

I don't use it as I lose a lot of bass in Pure Direct due to my speakers not being designed for low bass.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #3447 of 6042 Old 08-02-2009, 09:32 PM
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is there a way of enabling rhapsody on a 3900 purchased in australia???
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post #3448 of 6042 Old 08-03-2009, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrike View Post

Thanks kriktsemaj99 for all your help, but problem is not solved even with Initial Reset of All.
Let me just explain my setup:
I have HDX1000 Media Player connected with HDMI on DVD input. Audio jacks are connected from player to Speakers Presence Zone 2/Zone 3 SP1. (in my Main living room I have 5.1 setup)

I'm pretty much out of ideas. Where do you connect the audio jacks on the back of the receiver? The only input that you should NOT use is the PHONO input, because that's much more sensitive than the others and only intended for a turntable.
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post #3449 of 6042 Old 08-03-2009, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MNSACD View Post

No problem tomrowe125! I should have noted that I'm actually using the 3900 as a pre-pro, with an Emotiva LPA-1 on the pre-outs. I have a 5.1 setup using Polk Audio LSI 15's, LSI/C. and LSI-7's for surrounds. I have a HSU VTF3MK2 subwoofer. The LSI's are 4 ohm and when I used them with an older Sony ES 90 watt per channel receiver it was smoking hot after an hour of listening. The Emotiva doesnt break a sweat driving the LSI's listening to multi-channel surround music, or movies for hours at a time You may find it hard to come by the Sony SCD-XA5400ES right now. They are suppose to be back in stock sometime this month. I got mine a few months ago with a special order through Ultimate Electronics. Good luck!

MNSACD

That's my ultimate aim as well, though it's a long way down the road. My current pipe dream is Emotiva XPA-1s for the front 3 channels, and Def Tech BP7002SCs for front l/r, with my PowerMonitor 700s relegated to surround duty. Your setup sounds pretty sweet! Thanks again!- Tom
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post #3450 of 6042 Old 08-03-2009, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNSACD View Post

No problem tomrowe125! I should have noted that I'm actually using the 3900 as a pre-pro, with an Emotiva LPA-1 on the pre-outs. I have a 5.1 setup using Polk Audio LSI 15's, LSI/C. and LSI-7's for surrounds. I have a HSU VTF3MK2 subwoofer. The LSI's are 4 ohm and when I used them with an older Sony ES 90 watt per channel receiver it was smoking hot after an hour of listening. The Emotiva doesnt break a sweat driving the LSI's listening to multi-channel surround music, or movies for hours at a time You may find it hard to come by the Sony SCD-XA5400ES right now. They are suppose to be back in stock sometime this month. I got mine a few months ago with a special order through Ultimate Electronics. Good luck!

I have been told by some who know a whole lot more about this stuff than I do, that it's a good idea to leave modern receivers with good overload circuitry on the 8 ohm setting, even with 4 ohm speakers. That way, you can see if 8 ohms makes the receiver clip or get hot but if it doesn't you will benefit from the additional power, or so the smart money boys tell me. I run 6 Hsu HB-1 MK2 speakers, which are 6 ohms nominal, 4 ohms peak, with the 8 ohm setting on my 3900 and the 3900 has handled the load without complaint. By the Way my sub is a Hsu VTF-3 MK3 Turbo and I love it.
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