"Official" RX-V1900/RX-V3900 Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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Old 09-03-2008, 02:51 PM
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Correct. I contacted Yamaha about this as well. They stated that the chip to overlay the volume indicator over HDMI, if added to the system would make it prohibitively expensive to produce, given the current price range.
My wife doesn't like the fact that we lost our OSD for volume either. If the 3900 could do it, I'd switch. Actually, she might even make me switch. haha

According to their email though, I think the 3900 may have it.

Here is their actual email response to me, and my original email. This is from when I was looking to upgrade my 2500 to a 2700, which I ended up doing, for the HDMI:


Brian,
Right now, none of our receivers have the capability to over lay the volume control information on an HD signal. In order to do so the receiver would have to have a digital video upscaler. That technology is not available on any receivers in that price range at this time. You are probably looking at the next generation at least until that feature will be added.


Best Regards,
The Yamaha Customer Support Team

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Receivers [AV and Stereo]
Model: RX-V2500
I have an RX-V2500 that I just connected to a new Sony TV via component video.
I have found that the OSD (volume display, and sound field program) do not display over the video, especially since I'm at 1080i. I've looked online and this is apparently just by design.
Does the RX-V2700 display information over component at 1080i? This seems to be a bit of a design flaw if not... would future models have it if the 2700 does not? Since all tv's are moving to component or hdmi, it would seem having OSD would be important for volume information..
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:21 AM
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Regarding the 3900, would it be possible to use a separate amp to power the mains but still have the receiver power the other 3 channels until another amp was purchased? I'm a newb, how does one go about bypassing the receivers power and using a separate amp.
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasintrane View Post

Regarding the 3900, would it be possible to use a separate amp to power the mains but still have the receiver power the other 3 channels until another amp was purchased? I'm a newb, how does one go about bypassing the receivers power and using a separate amp.

I guess I'm a relative newb too, but I sure read page 21 of the manual to say this will work. As I read it, you plug the Pre Out Front jacks to the power amp inputs and do not wire to the AVRs front speaker terminals.

Out of curiousity, what drives you to want to do this?
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:40 AM
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More cleaner power for Stereo playback (and eventually all channels of playback). It was just a thought, I'm not dead set on it. The amps at emotiva have really caught my attention. The only problem is there isn't a av processor that I can find that I really like for the right price.

Is there a noticeable degrade in the signals when you send them from the receiver to a outside amp?
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:42 AM
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Could someone post a link to the owner's manual for the 3900. I must have missed it. I'd like to know more about the cross over features and bass management.
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasintrane View Post

Could someone post a link to the owner's manual for the 3900. I must have missed it. I'd like to know more about the cross over features and bass management.

See post 15.

I also think you can download it from Yamaha's 3900 page.

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Old 09-04-2008, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasintrane View Post

Could someone post a link to the owner's manual for the 3900. I must have missed it. I'd like to know more about the cross over features and bass management.

Basically you have plenty of crossover frequencies to choose from, but it has to be the same frequency for all speakers. That's going to cost them some sales of the 3900 (regardless of how important the feature really is), but perhaps they think this will be offset by people moving up to the Z7 to get separate crossovers. (I'm only guessing the Z7 will have this, as the manual is not up yet.)
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Old 09-04-2008, 11:22 AM
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Bummer.
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Old 09-04-2008, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianhahne View Post

Correct. I contacted Yamaha about this as well. They stated that the chip to overlay the volume indicator over HDMI, if added to the system would make it prohibitively expensive to produce, given the current price range.
My wife doesn't like the fact that we lost our OSD for volume either. If the 3900 could do it, I'd switch. Actually, she might even make me switch. haha

According to their email though, I think the 3900 may have it.

Here is their actual email response to me, and my original email. This is from when I was looking to upgrade my 2500 to a 2700, which I ended up doing, for the HDMI:


Brian,
Right now, none of our receivers have the capability to over lay the volume control information on an HD signal. In order to do so the receiver would have to have a digital video upscaler. That technology is not available on any receivers in that price range at this time. You are probably looking at the next generation at least until that feature will be added.


Best Regards,
The Yamaha Customer Support Team

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Receivers [AV and Stereo]
Model: RX-V2500
I have an RX-V2500 that I just connected to a new Sony TV via component video.
I have found that the OSD (volume display, and sound field program) do not display over the video, especially since I'm at 1080i. I've looked online and this is apparently just by design.
Does the RX-V2700 display information over component at 1080i? This seems to be a bit of a design flaw if not... would future models have it if the 2700 does not? Since all tv's are moving to component or hdmi, it would seem having OSD would be important for volume information..

Just a question.. does Denon or other amps at this price point offer OSD over HD?
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasintrane View Post

Regarding the 3900, would it be possible to use a separate amp to power the mains but still have the receiver power the other 3 channels until another amp was purchased? I'm a newb, how does one go about bypassing the receivers power and using a separate amp.

Yes you can. Just run RCA cables from the pre-outs for the mains from the receiver to the amp. Connect the speaker cables to the amp.
I'm using the Emotiva XPA-2 amp to power my mains, and my RX-V3800 to power side and rear surrounds.
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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You may want to consider using an external amp for the mains only. I see little point in any more amplification with my 2700 setup.

Why do you think you need more power?

"But this one goes up to 11"
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGKoul View Post

Just a question.. does Denon or other amps at this price point offer OSD over HD?

Denon 3808CI has it.
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

You may want to consider using an external amp for the mains only. I see little point in any more amplification with my 2700 setup.

Why do you think you need more power?

I'm just kind of exploring some different options right now and trying to figure out what will work and what wont. I've been reading a little about separate components and was curious if many people use a receiver and amp as separate components. It seems silly, but a lot of folks don't seem happy with many of the AV processors out now, but lots more are soon to be released.

As to the second part of your question, I always want more than I need.
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Old 09-04-2008, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Using a receiver as a preamp makes a lot of sense economically. This is my question to you. Do you think many people have given a receiver/amp combo a fair comparison against a preamp/amp combo? Or do you think there's often been a bias against receivers?

Fact is it's going to be hard to compare one against the other with any kind of blind testing. So you are likely stuck with your audio memory, which is always suspect. Mine is, anyways.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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Old 09-05-2008, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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A salesperson over at Audioholics says that the 1900's are selling pretty well. So...is there anyone with a 1900 who wants to give us some first hand feedback?

"But this one goes up to 11"
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Old 09-05-2008, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

A salesperson over at Audioholics says that the 1900's are selling pretty well. So...is there anyone with a 1900 who wants to give us some first hand feedback?

That would be good, although there aren't many new features to test on the 1900. Two things I want to know:
  • Has the dreaded volume bar been replaced? (i.e. when you change volume do you see the actual value in large numbers on the front panel).
  • Does it pass BTB/WTW from an HDMI input?
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Old 09-05-2008, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

So...is there anyone with a 1900 who wants to give us some first hand feedback?

Most interesting question for me:
- details of YPAO implementation in comparison with Z11
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Old 09-05-2008, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

A salesperson over at Audioholics says that the 1900's are selling pretty well. So...is there anyone with a 1900 who wants to give us some first hand feedback?

He also says that the 3900 has individual crossover points for each speaker and is checking on the 1900.
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Old 09-05-2008, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by crbaldwin View Post

He also says that the 3900 has individual crossover points for each speaker and is checking on the 1900.

He may be misinformed. The 3900 manual implies that there's a single crossover setting used for all speaker(s) set to small.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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Old 09-05-2008, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crbaldwin View Post

He also says that the 3900 has individual crossover points for each speaker and is checking on the 1900.

I really thought they should have added this to the 3900 to compete with Denon, but the manual suggests otherwise (I suppose it's possible we have an early version of the manual that's missing a few things).
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Old 09-08-2008, 06:11 PM
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I noticed in the manual that it says it cannot playback commentary tracks on BRD and HD-DVD discs...anyone know what that is all about?
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Toka78 View Post

I noticed in the manual that it says it cannot playback commentary tracks on BRD and HD-DVD discs...anyone know what that is all about?

I would guess this is about secondary audio.

To use secondary audio, you must decode at the player, not the receiver. This is not a Yamaha restriction, it's a universal player restriction. In other words, the player would probably be set to output MPCM.

People who insist on using bitstream either don't care about secondary audio, or are not aware of the this restriction.

I explain some of this stuff on the AVR Faq.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toka78 View Post

I noticed in the manual that it says it cannot playback commentary tracks on BRD and HD-DVD discs...anyone know what that is all about?

The manual could be clearer (as usual). I think it might refer to the special DTS Express bitstreams that are part of BD live (where a player can connect to the Internet to fetch, for example, an additional commentary track). Look for DTS Express in the Glossary of the 3900 manual (page 141).

However, this restriction would still only warrant a mention in the manual if some players can bitstream the DTS Express track to the receiver. I don't know if any players can do this, as the player would normally decode it and mix it with the primary audio before sending it as PCM (in which case the receiver has no problem).
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Old 09-09-2008, 06:51 PM
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Ah, that clears it up. Thanks for the help!
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:53 AM
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What's up with BTB/WTW clipping?
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I wish we knew! They are selling 1900s now. 1900 owners are either shy, or too busy enoying their 1900. Maybe they are so amazing, there is nothing to bitch about and no setup issues to come here with

Maybe 1900 owners died of ecstasy 3/4 of the way into Pink Floyd's Wish you were Here. What a way to go

"But this one goes up to 11"
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I wish we knew! They are selling 1900s now. 1900 owners are either shy, or too busy enoying their 1900. Maybe they are so amazing, there is nothing to bitch about and no setup issues to come here with

I tried asking over at audioholics where they claim to have them in stock, but no replies. I'd also like confirmation that:
  • HDMI pass-through in standby is only on the 3900, not the 1900 (there was some question about that).
  • Does the 3900 support different crossovers for each speaker (the manual says no but someone claimed yes).
  • Is the volume displayed in large numbers, at least when you make a change? (it doesn't matter so much that the permanent volume display is small).
  • Do they still clip BTB/WTW?
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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You and me, K. If you find out anything, post it here. Just seems odd we are not getting feedback.

Maybe the 1900 is SO bad that Yamaha paid off the data line providers to reject anything that looked like an attack on the 1900 Maybe there would otherwise be 100 angry posts. Maybe it clips 0-255

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Old 09-11-2008, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

  • HDMI pass-through in standby is only on the 3900, not the 1900 (there was some question about that).
  • Does the 3900 support different crossovers for each speaker (the manual says no but someone claimed yes).
  • Is the volume displayed in large numbers, at least when you make a change? (it doesn't matter so much that the permanent volume display is small).
  • Do they still clip BTB/WTW?

HDMI pass-through: there are zero hints of this capability in any places in the 1900 manual unlike in the 3900 manual where it is explicitly described. Seems doubtful for 1900.

Channel specific crossover frequencies: no hint in either manual of how this would be set on a channel-by-channel basis if it is possible. Also seems like a feature of utility only to a very small subset of purchasers. Seems doubtful.

Numeric volume change display vs. bar graph on front panel VFD. Yamaha AVRs have worked this way for years. Seems doubtful.

Video clipping. I suspect the only way we'll find this out is when someone gets one, tries it, and reports here.
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Old 09-11-2008, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick W View Post

HDMI pass-through: there are zero hints of this capability in any places in the 1900 manual unlike in the 3900 manual where it is explicitly described. Seems doubtful for 1900.

Agree, but someone who has an actual unit tried to claim otherwise (I doubt they've had the unit out of the box though!).

Quote:


Channel specific crossover frequencies: no hint in either manual of how this would be set on a channel-by-channel basis if it is possible. Also seems like a feature of utility only to a very small subset of purchasers. Seems doubtful.

I know it's not in the manual, but again it was claimed as a feature (same guy at audioholics.com).

Quote:


Numeric volume change display vs. bar graph on front panel VFD. Yamaha AVRs have worked this way for years. Seems doubtful.

Older Yamahas showed big numbers when the volume was changed (my 5760 does that). The 1800/3800 have a completely useless graphical volume bar. So it seems reasonable to ask what they decided to do for the 1900/3900. (They actually have room to show both, because the front panel can display two lines.)

Quote:


Video clipping. I suspect the only way we'll find this out is when someone gets one, tries it, and reports here.

Agree on that one. But for the reasons I mentioned an actual report would be best for the other points too.
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