Originally Posted by vcor
I, as many others are very satisfied with the 905. The issues stated are a bit blown out of proportion for 99% of the users.... The video processor is easy to turn off if you see it really affecting the image or if you want to compare how it looks with and without it.
.... Both Onkyo and Denon did fix various issues with firmware updates. While Onkyo didn't make the updates available directly, I found it easy to get them and install the updates, although the Denon clearly has a better means of updates via Ethernet.
I think you and others who think this way just capitulate. It's individuals like that who will accept less than what was promised AND paid for and don't care. Who accept non-working features becuase everyone else has problems too. Those people make the rest of us who actually care about representations and warranties and promises suffer.
The problems with the Onkyo and certainly the much more expensive INTEGRA line are NOT minor. The botched implementation of the SQV Silicon Optics Reon processor is not minor. It's why some of us - who don't watch on 42-50" screens bought the processor. It's a promise that Onkyo made that what we bought would work and DO AS PROMISED.
The fact it does not strikes me as a blatant fraud by Onkyo. I don't pay for "broken promises" or that last 1-10% of functionality - as you would have them - that dosen't work. Would you be in the same position if you bought a car that was represented by the manufacturer to reach speeds up to 130 miles per hour but only would go 110? Does the lie matter to you if you are like "99%" of users and never drive over 85 MPH? I assume you would just live with your 85 MPH car. How about a car that can do 130 but has brakes that will fail at 110. Good enough for 99% of the people. (Sounds like the Pinto or the Explorer revisited - we see what the Pinto taught Ford).
What about a car with 3 of 4 power windows that worked as advertised? Or a radio that got 10/50 FM stations available. Or a heater that only went to 78 not 80 degrees. Sure who cares. Who needs 80 degree air. Who's gonna use those other 40 stations. Who needs four working windows when you have three. For 99% of the people "just enough" is good enough. Wow.
Pity since you and similar minds probably could have paid A LOT less for the same car that was rated to only go 80 MPH, had only three working windows or a flawed radio that DIDN'T receive your favorite station.
Fraud is fraud. Misreprsenations and faulty products are just that. Onkyo/Integra promised products that worked AS ADVERTISED including a Reon that works and doesn't change the original INPUT colors to something else. Onkyo didn't admit it. Onkyo dosen't care. They only put out some updates to those users who KNOW about the problems and the updates - BUT NOT those who don't know about them. Great customer service - yep just like Denon huh? Yes, Onkyo did fix (for those that know how to get the fixes and apply them in the most arcane way possible -RS232 port from computer and Toslink from a CD player) SOME issues but NOT ALL issues they know about.
And please, please don't give people hope about updates from Onkyo. There are no more updates. There techincally never were updates but for a few forum members who have connections and were kind enough to share. Onkyo will not give them out. Install them wrong and brick your unit and Onkyo will DENY warranty coverage. Onkyo does not distribute them automatically like Denon over the net. Onkyo could give a flying you-know-what about you and you receiver. They are glad you and "99% of users" with small or uncalibrated screens don't know what to look for and haven't learned about their mispresentations and defects.
99% of users can't tell 1080p vs 1080i vs 720p? So what - "just turn it off and live with it". Well some of us can and some of us do care. I didn't buy this at Walmart. I am not Joe somebody with a generic LCD pannel and a generic VCR and $39.99 "upscaling" DVD player.
The DTR 8.8 (brother to the 905 and father of the 906/8.9) is a product that DOES NOT work as promised. I don't care if 90 or 98% of it works. I paid for 100%. IT's FLAWED and Onkyo and apparently Silicon Optics doesn't care. They don't care becuase "the it's good enough people" don't care. And as long as people take the niave view that 88% or 99% of what you pay for is GOOD ENOUGH Onkyo won't care. I'll also bet frankly that's why they don't.
Instead of patronizing the "other 1%" - tell people to educate themselves on the product. Don't pretend the 99% of the world knows what's best for that alleged "1%" of super-mega-involved-expert users with a reasuring "99% of you will never know Onkyo is not giving you what you paid for".
I am a huge free speech advocate - and so I considered your position. I respect your thoughts but really expect you to direct others to consider the facts.
Let the Onkyo/Integra customers read the realities and these threads:
The DTR 8.8 thread:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=903024
The Firmware Updates thread:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1016297
The 905 thread:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=884772
7500 posts - and it's not all good news. Some people can't even get those updgrades because their units don't have updater version 1.01. Pitty - maybe they'll never know what their missing.