Yamaha RX-Z7 reciever. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1267 Old 08-28-2008, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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i saw there were no dedicated threads for this reciever so i figure i would start one.

im currently shopping for recievers and im in a simmilar price range of this reciever.

i was thinking of the poineer elite 94 or the denon 4308, but if the sound output and functionality on this beast is what they claim, then it just might be worth the wait. im not really looking for multi room functionality b/c this would be going in a dedicated home theater.

i found a couple of links to some info on this thing:

http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messag...81/511022.html

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...ad.php?t=47041

http://www.mm-news.org/equipment/77-...aha-rx-z7.html

theres more but i just wanted to get a few in to get the discussion moving.

let me know what you guys think of how this measure up to some of the better recievers in the industry like the denon. and if there is anyone out there who got their hands one for some sort of QC program . . . definatly report back.

thanks
JR
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post #2 of 1267 Old 08-28-2008, 09:47 PM
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I will be getting my review sample in October to test out.

In the meantime, we did a first look article:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/r...s/yamaha-rx-z7

If there are any particular tests people would like to see me run, simply PM me or comment here and I will check back regularly. thanks.

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post #3 of 1267 Old 08-28-2008, 10:02 PM
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Nice. I would be especially interested in seeing something like HQV run against it's VP. It sounds like you can adjust the noise reduction a too. It would be nice to see an assessment on that.

Obviously, people are going to want to know what the price difference over the 3900 gives you. They are very close.

fish - the RX-V1900/RX-V3900 thread gives some specs on the first post. You can steal some of those an revise your first post to give a list of specs and features.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #4 of 1267 Old 08-29-2008, 08:58 AM
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I've also been shopping for a network receiver to use with my DSP-1. Since my Samsung LN46A750 is DLNA compliant I wanted a receiver to hook up to my network. It looks like the RX-V3900 does everything that the RX-Z7 can do as far as networking goes. The differences I saw: Z7 has 38 soundfields/v3900 has 22 (my DSP-1 will take care of that), Z7 has 4 zones/V3900 has 3, Z7 has USB front and rear/V3900 has front only, Z7 has front HDMI (5 total)/V3900 does not(4 total). These differences don't justify the extra $800 in my book. I was lucky enough to visit the local Yamaha dealer while the Yamaha rep was giving a dog and pony show for the RX-Z7. He agrees that the added features are a little over the top for most users while offering a reasonable alternative to the flagship RX-Z11. I feel the RX-V3900 will satisfy my future needs at the best price.
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post #5 of 1267 Old 08-29-2008, 09:37 AM
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I have an RX-V2700 in one of my theater rooms which I plan on directly comparing to the Z1. The 2700/3900 should have similar amp performance so it I think it will be as close to a 3900/Z7 comparison as I can get without actually asking Yamaha to send both 3900/Z7 AVRs.

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post #6 of 1267 Old 08-29-2008, 10:24 AM
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I would really like to know if you can pass 7.1 channel PCM audio from an ATI 4850 video card to the this receiver over HDMI. All of their last receivers did not work properly with that card.

Also I(And half of the forum) would like to know if this receiver clips BTB/WTW. That is a big one to some people.
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post #7 of 1267 Old 08-29-2008, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcinnj View Post

I've also been shopping for a network receiver to use with my DSP-1. Since my Samsung LN46A750 is DLNA compliant I wanted a receiver to hook up to my network. It looks like the RX-V3900 does everything that the RX-Z7 can do as far as networking goes. The differences I saw: Z7 is capable of 11.2/V3900 is 7.1, Z7 has 38 soundfields/v3900 has 22 (my DSP-1 will take care of that), Z7 has 4 zones/V3900 has 3, Z7 has USB front and rear/V3900 has front only, Z7 has front HDMI (5 total)/V3900 does not(4 total). These differences don't justify the extra $800 in my book. I was lucky enough to visit the local Yamaha dealer while the Yamaha rep was giving a dog and pony show for the RX-Z7. He agrees that the added features are a little over the top for most users while offering a reasonable alternative to the flagship RX-Z11. I feel the RX-V3900 will satisfy my future needs at the best price.


Hmmm. I looked at all the information provided for the Z7 and didn't see any reference to 11.2 capability. It's listed all over that it is a 7.1 receiver. Looking at the back panel, I see only one set of "presence" channels and not two sets. Maybe I missed something, I don't know.

Would be nice if this one did do 11.2 as I, unlike many others, do want to use the DSP modes with the extra channels. Damn Z11 costs and arm and a leg...

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Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post


Also I(And half of the forum) would like to know if this receiver clips BTB/WTW. That is a big one to some people.

Oh yeah, that too.


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post #8 of 1267 Old 08-29-2008, 11:05 AM
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My bad - I misconstrued the info while listening to the D&P show. He was talking about the RX-Z11 at that point.
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post #9 of 1267 Old 08-29-2008, 11:08 AM
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...making the price difference that much harder to justify. Thanks
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post #10 of 1267 Old 08-29-2008, 11:40 AM
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Hehe. Sorry, I just wasn't sure and I got my hopes up when you mentioned it in your post. So true though...

I saw O*n*ecall.com had an open box Z11 for around $3700. Nice discount right there. I'm still gonna keep my eyes open on great deals for the Z11. The Z7 does seem like a great deal for those that don't care about CinemaDSP or any use of the "presence" surrounds. Which, in all fairness aren't too important. For me it is though...for many reasons. Some useful, some nostalgic and sentimental.


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post #11 of 1267 Old 08-29-2008, 11:43 AM
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Gene over at Audioholics does great reviews, so be sure to look for his review of the Z7. Hopefully he can get it done by November.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #12 of 1267 Old 08-29-2008, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene DellaSala View Post

I will be getting my review sample in October to test out.
...
If there are any particular tests people would like to see me run, simply PM me or comment here and I will check back regularly.

I'd like to know if it supports independant crossover frequencies for each speaker (or speaker pair)? The 3900 only has a single crossover. This would be in the manual but I didn't find it online yet.

And what everyone else asked (can you see BTB test patterns through this thing over HDMI). This one won't be in the manual so it will have to be tested. Ideally you test not only YCbCr for BTB/WTW, but also test to see if it passes full range RGB.
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post #13 of 1267 Old 08-30-2008, 05:14 AM
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"...any use of the "presence" surrounds. Which, in all fairness aren't too important. For me it is though...for many reasons. Some useful, some nostalgic and sentimental."


If you can get your hands on the DSP-1 (from the 80's) it has a fully user programable presence soundfield. I happen to have two DSP-1's. I lost the remote for the first one and had to buy another unit on E/B just to get a remote.
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post #14 of 1267 Old 08-30-2008, 03:36 PM
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That's not the only one you could do that with. I know my 2095 has that ability as well.

Upgrayedd. Which he spells thusly, with two D's, as he says, "for a double dose of this pimping".
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post #15 of 1267 Old 08-30-2008, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcinnj View Post

"...any use of the "presence" surrounds. Which, in all fairness aren't too important. For me it is though...for many reasons. Some useful, some nostalgic and sentimental."


If you can get your hands on the DSP-1 (from the 80's) it has a fully user programable presence soundfield. I happen to have two DSP-1's. I lost the remote for the first one and had to buy another unit on E/B just to get a remote.

The soundfields are all adjustable for the newer units too. At least, according to what I read from the Z11 manual.


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post #16 of 1267 Old 08-31-2008, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

The soundfields are all adjustable for the newer units too. At least, according to what I read from the Z11 manual.




If you consider the choices between "calm" and "powerful" or "simple" and "complex" fully programable...
The DSP-1 allows you to not only change the shape of each venue but you can also adjust the milliseconds of delay to each speaker and the frequency of flange/delay/rotation/wave...etc. Now THAT is fully programable. I use my second DSP-1 for custom effects for my guitar.
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post #17 of 1267 Old 08-31-2008, 10:39 PM
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Hehehe. Right, I don't think it is that flexible. Maybe they changed it to the way it is now so it would be easier for the user to adjust things and not look too confusing. It is a sliding scale so I am sure you can get some decent adjustments with it.


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post #18 of 1267 Old 09-28-2008, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene DellaSala View Post

I will be getting my review sample in October to test out.

If there are any particular tests people would like to see me run, simply PM me or comment here and I will check back regularly. thanks.

The Yamaha web site says the RX-Z7 will do "Analog and HDMI video upscaling to full 1080p and downscaling to 480p". I would like to use the multi-zone feature to send component video (via a CElabs distribution amplifier) to other rooms in my house, so I would like to know if it will downscale video from the HDMI inputs to the component video zone output, or will it be necessary to run component video and audio from all of my sources (which really defeats the convenience of single-cable HDMI).
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post #19 of 1267 Old 10-01-2008, 04:57 PM
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I notice the Z7 manual is now available at http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...DETYP=RELATION

At first glance this thing is a 3900 with a couple of extra features. It should really be called the RX-V4900.
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post #20 of 1267 Old 10-01-2008, 05:09 PM
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Where's your fan boy spirit, K?

I mean, why would Yamaha charge $1000 more over the 3900 it it was not Z material

I honestly think some people will be willing to spend the money for the more flexible video processing settings.

But it does seem a bit off to call it a Z. I think Yamaha may be responding to the reviews on the Z11 which complaining about the video processing not being up to expectations. But I don't see where rebadging a 3900 as a Z and adding a few things will please the past and future Z buyers. But what do I know about their market

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #21 of 1267 Old 10-02-2008, 08:19 AM
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I read both manuals. The Z7 is larger and heavier, which suggests to me that it has better internal parts -- or at least different parts. The external hardware (speaker posts) are better in the Z7. The Z7 has an extra HDMI front panel connection.

The most significant difference is that the Z7 allows users to adjust the video signal, using the Anchor Bay chip, for Mosquito Noise Reduction, Block Noise Reduction, Detail Enhancement, Edge Enhancement, Brightness, Contrast, and Saturation, while the 3900 does not.

The discussion of this difference is on pages 100-101 of the Z7 manual.
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post #22 of 1267 Old 10-02-2008, 08:32 AM
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The weight difference is at least partially due to a heavier braced chassis, noted in the Features list on the Yamaha site.

Unless one needs the network features, I think you'd be better off with a 3900 and a DVDO Edge.
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post #23 of 1267 Old 10-02-2008, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Music Fanatic View Post

IThe most significant difference is that the Z7 allows users to adjust the video signal, using the Anchor Bay chip, for Mosquito Noise Reduction, Block Noise Reduction, Detail Enhancement, Edge Enhancement, Brightness, Contrast, and Saturation, while the 3900 does not.

The discussion of this difference is on pages 100-101 of the Z7 manual.

Can you adjust these per source? I would hope so for an extra $1000

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #24 of 1267 Old 10-02-2008, 09:59 AM
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Can you adjust these per source? I would hope so for an extra $1000

It seems yes. You can save up to 6 video adjustment presets and then associate a given preset with each input (page 91).

What I can't find is a clear statement that it supports independent bass crossover frequencies for each speaker (or for each speaker group). The language is vague in the manual, but then again it's equally vague for the Z11 which is sometimes reported to support independent crossovers (although I'm not 100% sure it does). And the same vague description is in the 1800/3800 manuals which definitely only have one crossover frequency.
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post #25 of 1267 Old 10-02-2008, 11:05 AM
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Does the Z7 have a toroidal transformer?
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post #26 of 1267 Old 10-02-2008, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

. . . What I can't find is a clear statement that it supports independent bass crossover frequencies for each speaker (or for each speaker group). The language is vague in the manual, but then again it's equally vague for the Z11 which is sometimes reported to support independent crossovers (although I'm not 100% sure it does). And the same vague description is in the 1800/3800 manuals which definitely only have one crossover frequency.

Well, the whole YamahaUSA site went down before I got the Z7 manual, but as a 3800 and Z11 owner I can say they do bass management differently.

The 3800 has an adjustable global xo frequency that acts on both the LFE track and redirected bass from the other channels.

The Z11 will set speaker xo's inpendently in YPAO, and allows independent manual adjustment of the xo per channel. That covers the high-pass (speaker) side of the crossover; what is not stated is how Yamaha handles the low-pass side of the crossover to the subwoofer.

There is no setting for the crossover to the subwoofer in the GUI.
Is it automatically set to the highest speaker xo frequency currently in use? That would be the correct way to do it . . .

And as always we are left to wonder if LFE track contents between whatever the subwoofer low pass xo is set to and the 120Hz upper end of the LFE channel are simply truncated.
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post #27 of 1267 Old 10-02-2008, 02:31 PM
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YamahaUSA is back up.

The description of bass management in the Z7 manual is identical to the Z11 manual.

And the description of bass management in the new 3900 is also the same as the Z11.

The new 1900, however, has an adjustable global crossover.
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post #28 of 1267 Old 10-02-2008, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggunnell View Post

The description of bass management in the Z7 manual is identical to the Z11 manual.

And the description of bass management in the new 3900 is also the same as the Z11.

I noticed that, BUT the description is remarkably similar to that in the 3800 manual which only has a single crossover. Can you point to a page in the Z11 manual where it clearly describes something different than the 3800 manual?

And as you said, in the end multiple crossovers are not always done properly and can leave you with a hole in the bass sent to the sub. But by now you would think they could implement it and get it right even on a $1000 receiver!
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post #29 of 1267 Old 10-02-2008, 03:31 PM
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There are a couple differences.

Look at page 92 in the 3800 manual and page 101 in the Z11 manual.
Compare the "LFE signals output" tables -- LFE signal is directed to both the front and sub in older models if bass out is set to 'both', in newer models the LFE signal is sent to the front speakers only if bass out is set to 'front'.

The one you want "Bass Cross Over" on page 93 of the 3800 manual and "Cross Over" on page 100 of the Z11 manual.

3800 and 1900: "Use this feature to select the crossover frequency of all (emphasis mine) the speakers set to "Small" or "None" . . ."

Z11, Z7, and 3900: "Use this feature to select the crossover frequency of the speaker(s) that is set to "Small".

I think the remarkable similarity is based on minimal effort to update the manual ("We'll just change these few words here and that takes care of that one . . ."
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post #30 of 1267 Old 10-02-2008, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggunnell View Post

There are a couple differences...
3800 and 1900: "Use this feature to select the crossover frequency of all (emphasis mine) the speakers set to "Small" or "None" . . ."

Z11, Z7, and 3900: "Use this feature to select the crossover frequency of the speaker(s) that is set to "Small".

I'll grant you it's a difference, but the addition of "all" doesn't change the meaning of that sentence one iota. Great manuals as usual! It certainly makes sense for Yamaha to improve bass management on the 3900, then it can really compete with the Denon 3808. But sense hasn't stopped them from making odd decisions in the past.
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