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post #1 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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The AVR600 was announced today. Price given as £2300 or around $4k.

I think this could be a real killer unit if the AVR350 is anything to go by.

http://www.arcam.co.uk/downloads/AV600-brochure-web.pdf

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post #2 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 11:49 AM
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I am in complete agreement! The 350 has been my favorite receiver that I ever owned and even bested some dedicated pre-amps. YYMV
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post #3 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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The shot of the rear shows 3 separate Subwoofer outputs on the Pre outs. The fact it has no volume knob is also unusual.

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post #4 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 12:26 PM
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No audyssey calibration... shame...
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post #5 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBL View Post

No audyssey calibration... shame...

I have to disagree there. I've found Audyssey ( I used the separate Audyssey EQ) and found it to be a big disappointment compared with professional modeling and calibration. Not good enough for high end reference quality installs.

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post #6 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

i have to disagree there. I've found audyssey ( i used the separate audyssey eq) and found it to be a big disappointment compared with professional modeling and calibration. Not good enough for high end reference quality installs.

lol
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post #7 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodshed View Post

lol


Not sure what you mean there, but in large reference quality rooms Audyssey is not the best option for the job.

This isn't my isolated experience.

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post #8 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 02:22 PM
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not sure myself, except, what does the Arcam have to do with "large reference quality rooms" ? or does it, just wondering ?

I'd like to emphasize: (a) large, (b) reference and (c) quality.
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post #9 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

Not sure what you mean there, but in large reference quality rooms Audyssey is not the best option for the job.

This isn't my isolated experience.

Were you not aware that all the "experts" on this forum droll endlessly over Audessey and how it is the greatest advancement in the history of audio since AC?
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post #10 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 03:16 PM
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I think that digital room correction is becoming quite common now, even in "large, reference quality" rooms, because it is becoming clear that room treatment can only go so far, especially in the bass region. It seems that several manufacturers, like Anthem, Lexicon, Meridian, NAD, and Simaudio (also Denon and Onkyo) now appear to think that it is appropriate to include DSP room correction in their products, while others, like Classe and apparently Arcam, appear to consider it inappropriate. Perhaps MBL was just expressing his disagreement with Arcam's design choice here.
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post #11 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 03:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

not sure myself, except, what does the Arcam have to do with "large reference quality rooms" ? or does it, just wondering ?

It doesnt at all. I was replying to the "No audyssey calibration... shame" comment , nothing else at all. I just happen to disagree, that's all.

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post #12 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzziks View Post

I think that digital room correction is becoming quite common now, even in "large, reference quality" rooms, because it is becoming clear that room treatment can only go so far, especially in the bass region. It seems that several manufacturers, like Anthem, Lexicon, Meridian, NAD, and Simaudio (also Denon and Onkyo) now appear to think that it is appropriate to include DSP room correction in their products, while others, like Classe and apparently Arcam, appear to consider it inappropriate.

Im aware of the need for this type of correction from my own HT installs. It is now almost universal in "large reference quality" theaters, but Audyssey is rarely seen at that level.

My point was that Audyssey was simply not the best available option for all types of install. Thats from my own direct experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzziks View Post

Perhaps MBL was just expressing his disagreement with Arcam's design choice here.

Agreed totally.

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post #13 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow 8 View Post

were you not aware that all the "experts" on this forum droll endlessly over audessey and how it is the greatest advancement in the history of audio since ac?



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post #14 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 05:16 PM
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CM, if you happen to hear about an Arcam pre/pro I hope you will let us know.

Nice to see you slummin it down here
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post #15 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

CM, if you happen to hear about an Arcam pre/pro I hope you will let us know.

Nice to see you slummin it down here

I like to see what the action is like in the trenches every once in a while.

I've heard that there will be an AVP soon and and AVR at a lower price point than the AVR600. No details yet. When I do I will either post or PM.

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post #16 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 05:57 PM
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I own everything else they make, I'll get this one too.

Can't wait......

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post #17 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

CM, if you happen to hear about an Arcam pre/pro I hope you will let us know.

Nice to see you slummin it down here

nice to see you 2 but you are a regular after all !
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post #18 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

It doesnt at all. I was replying to the "No audyssey calibration... shame" comment , nothing else at all. I just happen to disagree, that's all.

got it, thanks !

I fear I need some EQ of some sort in my few K's setup .....
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post #19 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 07:18 PM
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Homely looking Hombre with the vertically curved front and slot mouth on the bottom. And, push buttom volume? No thanks, been there, done that. I'll stick with a rotary knob please. I hope the AVP does not look like that.
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post #20 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlanman View Post

Homely looking Hombre with the vertically curved front and slot mouth on the bottom. And, push buttom volume? No thanks, been there, done that. I'll stick with a rotary knob please. I hope the AVP does not look like that.

Good thing remote controls exist...

You are the first person who has not loved the way it looks, and if they are putting pictures of it in the brochure obviously that is how it will look. I think it is a big upgrade from the look of the AVR350 and am very excited to see what else they release.
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post #21 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Sanlanman View Post

I hope the AVP does not look like that.

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post #22 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 09:22 PM
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Well this is going to be my next processor, very soon after it comes out. My Marantz 8002 is great but nowhere near the ole Arcam AVR300.

I pity the fools who will rule out Arcam gear based on a spec sheet...
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post #23 of 1286 Old 09-03-2008, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

Im aware of the need for this type of correction from my own HT installs. It is now almost universal in "large reference quality" theaters, but Audyssey is rarely seen at that level.

Just one followup, since it's a bit OT - if it's not included in the processor, what is usually used for room EQ in "large, reference quality" theaters, in your experience?
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post #24 of 1286 Old 09-04-2008, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzziks View Post

Just one followup, since it's a bit OT - if it's not included in the processor, what is usually used for room EQ in "large, reference quality" theaters, in your experience?

If you look in the high end forum you'll see a number of solutions, but there is currently a move to the Dolby Lake processor or EQ.

Its vastly better than anything else available in terms of configurations and flexibility and has truly pristine sound quality. They're not cheap, compared to most Audyssey solutions, and a large install will require a number of them. Also the person doing the correction doesn't come cheap either.

Hope this helps.

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post #25 of 1286 Old 09-04-2008, 02:11 AM
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@coldmachine, I'm wondering: Is room correction functionality for us end users needed only in cases where the room has some funny properties (e.g. not being rectangular or things like that)? Or is room correction always helpful? In the latter case wouldn't by Audyssey besser than no correction functionality at all? I mean how many of us end users can afford something better than Audyssey?
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post #26 of 1286 Old 09-04-2008, 03:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

@coldmachine, I'm wondering: Is room correction functionality for us end users needed only in cases where the room has some funny properties (e.g. not being rectangular or things like that)? Or is room correction always helpful? In the latter case wouldn't by Audyssey besser than no correction functionality at all? I mean how many of us end users can afford something better than Audyssey?

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Audyssey isn't a great tool. Just that it doesn't suit situation.

In order for anyone to obtain the maximum possible from their room, some form of treatment is mandatory, imho. There are many ways to do this with many techniques. Audyssey is one of those.

I have never seen or heard of a room without treatment that cannot be improved with it.

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post #27 of 1286 Old 09-04-2008, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Audyssey isn't a great tool. Just that it doesn't suit situation.

In order for anyone to obtain the maximum possible from their room, some form of treatment is mandatory, imho. There are many ways to do this with many techniques. Audyssey is one of those.

I have never seen or heard of a room without treatment that cannot be improved with it.

Yes yes. But "treatment" is a very broad term. E.g. it can be hardware treatment (e.g. corner bass traps) or software treatment (Audyssey etc).

The problem for me is this: I'm planning to set up a dedicated home theater room which will be perfectly rectangular. Also I plan to do hardware treatment (as far as it makes sense). Now if I do hardware treatment, is software treatment (e.g. Audyssey) not needed, anymore? Or would I benefit from software treatment/correction in any case? In the latter case not having any software treatment in the Arcam would be a problem for me, as I surely cannot afford to buy an AVR600 and then buy another processor to add software treatment on top of that! I don't have THAT much money...

Thanks...
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post #28 of 1286 Old 09-04-2008, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Yes yes. But "treatment" is a very broad term. E.g. it can be hardware treatment (e.g. corner bass traps) or software treatment (Audyssey etc).

The problem for me is this: I'm planning to set up a dedicated home theater room which will be perfectly rectangular. Also I plan to do hardware treatment (as far as it makes sense). Now if I do hardware treatment, is software treatment (e.g. Audyssey) not needed, anymore? Or would I benefit from software treatment/correction in any case? In the latter case not having any software treatment in the Arcam would be a problem for me, as I surely cannot afford to buy an AVR600 and then buy another processor to add software treatment on top of that! I don't have THAT much money...

Thanks...

Typically with properly designed acoustic treatments, you can correct ALOT of room problems with higher frequencies. Bass traps and correctly placed subs will help with the lower frequencies also.

A good professional custom installation company has all of the facilities to do a modal drawing of your room (or even do an acoustic design of your room, if you want to pay for it).

All of that being said, a good calbration done correctly should never "hurt" your system. And if a receiver like this is released for this price without some type of correction software, that is a bad thing in my book.

To give you an idea, whenever we design and install a JBL synthesis system, we completely design the room from the ground up. Everything, all treatments, equipment, layout, seating, lighting, HVAC, control, speakers, screen, etc, etc, etc.

Then, after it is all done we come in with the JBL EQ system (ridiculous BTW) and calibrate it. My point is, even with the best designed rooms, EQ (if done right) can only help.

I used to sell Arcam all the way back when they introduced their first "alpha 9" CD player, and as recently as their AVR 350. They make excellent sounding products. Their shortcoming has always been not keeping up on the latest features. Mostly they attribute that to wanting to "focus on AQ" which can never be a bad thing. While there are hundreds of useless features on many AVRs, I have found that some features are excellent and should included in any AVR that is priced "high".
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post #29 of 1286 Old 09-04-2008, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow 8 View Post

Were you not aware that all the "experts" on this forum droll endlessly over Audessey and how it is the greatest advancement in the history of audio since AC?

Dramatic much?

Audyssey is a great advancement. The greatest? Hardly. But a very good one nonetheless.
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post #30 of 1286 Old 09-04-2008, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

not sure myself, except, what does the Arcam have to do with "large reference quality rooms" ? or does it, just wondering ?

I'd like to emphasize: (a) large, (b) reference and (c) quality.

+1

Exactly my point. Many just look for any chance they can get to take a jab at Audyssey, no matter how off topic it is.

Take for example someone being disappointed that it wasnt included in this AVR. Then someone decides to put their input on how it isn't the best alternative for "large reference rooms". When it is painfully obvious we are not discussing "large reference rooms".
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