NAD M15HD Surround Sound Processor - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I've never cared for the midrange compensation with my system but I think it may be preferable in some.

I wish I had your system

For me, the KEFs benefit greatly from the compensation. Even with those 6 bad measurements (sub gain too high), a midrange-adjusted curve sounds much better than the flat-to-20kHz target...

Thanks again!

John

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Old 12-03-2009, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I've never cared for the midrange compensation with my system but I think it may be preferable in some.

Half & half for me, I like MRC and Audysseys' curve on with multi-channel but prefer flat with two channel. Could have something to do with being quite close to my side surrounds..
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnNY-C View Post

Already noted but thanks for the careful look. Also, I apologize to you for any ill will in the past - my fault.

John

No worries, I don't hold grudges.
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:07 PM
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Starting to get the hang of this:


"No one can have an idea once he really starts listening" - John Cage
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

No worries, I don't hold grudges.

Thanks sir.

"No one can have an idea once he really starts listening" - John Cage
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

No worries, I don't hold grudges.

By the way, that guide is great. I was intuitively using the first 3 mic positions but my I certainly wasn't following proper methods for measurements 3-6 in my second run last night. I feel like I just need to turn up the gain a little on my L/R amp to get 3 good measurements and then start adding-on 4-6, 7-12, etc...

I'm also thinking about dropping the crossover on my L/R speakers to 70Hz or 60Hz - that isn't going to mess up bass summation on a modern prepro like the M15HD - right?

"No one can have an idea once he really starts listening" - John Cage
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Old 12-03-2009, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnNY-C View Post

I'm also thinking about dropping the crossover on my L/R speakers to 70Hz or 60Hz - that isn't going to mess up bass summation on a modern prepro like the M15HD - right?

It shouldn't do any harm, I've set my system up a variety of ways in the same room now, three subs, two subs, one sub - universal 80hz xo's, independent xo's etc., and Audyssey does a good job of blending regardless.

In the Pro software, when you look at the drop down menu for the speaker crossovers, the frequencies are listed in preferential order. You might see them listed as 40, 80, 100, 60 for instance. Those recommendations will be there even if the speakers are initially set to large. I'd use that as a starting point to try.
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Old 12-03-2009, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

It shouldn't do any harm, I've set my system up a variety of ways in the same room now, three subs, two subs, one sub - universal 80hz xo's, independent xo's etc., and Audyssey does a good job of blending regardless.

In the Pro software, when you look at the drop down menu for the speaker crossovers, the frequencies are listed in preferential order. You might see them listed as 40, 80, 100, 60 for instance. Those recommendations will be there even if the speakers are initially set to large. I'd use that as a starting point to try.

Thanks for the advice, here are the results with 12 measurements (MultEQ XT's measurement location chart only has 12 positions or I would have gone the distance for all 24):




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Old 12-03-2009, 05:37 PM
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Now we're in business: another leap forward!

"No one can have an idea once he really starts listening" - John Cage
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Old 12-03-2009, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Only to the extent you claimed here:
"I would wager that NAD continues their tradition of taking care of customers and releases new modules” “They upgraded me from an M15 to an M15HD Traditionally, that doesn't happen with most companies.”
If it is not NAD to whom you refer, then who is "they"?
Huh? Please cite my insult.

Roger,

I'm very sorry for acting childish and insulting you before. I want you to know, that I know, that you know that I know nothing - you'd be right.

Mea Culpa. ed. 12/6/09


Sincerely,
John

"No one can have an idea once he really starts listening" - John Cage
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Old 12-03-2009, 08:36 PM
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Okay, after about 2 hours of Enhanced Stereo with all channels driven and Audyssey running, here are my operating temps (76.4F ambient):


Max:

Ambient:


&

Achievement Unlocked:
More Measurements:




and... (under the Wadia Dock for those concerned with stacking )

In my opinion, these are very low operating temps (I've built and overclocked my own PCs for over a decade now) and I can attest that this is as warm as I've ever felt the NAD unit - thoughts? For reference, in case anyone thinks that the max reading is high, don't make me hunt around the inside of my PC for some ungodly hot temp (I bet I could find 120+F at the Northbridge IC - [ed. I just got 109F shooting in through the fan hole...]) and I've been running it rock-solid-stable for 2 years now overclocked 33%.

EDIT 1 hour later (3 hours total, ambient temps up): I've been checking periodcially and the hottest temp I can pull has stabilized around 115.1F @ ~77F ambient - no worries.

"No one can have an idea once he really starts listening" - John Cage
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Old 12-08-2009, 01:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Fine View Post

Just traded in my M15 for a M15HD. Formerly, I was using the M15 for audio only in consort with a DVDO EDGE video processor. With the new M15HD approaching 30 hours of use, I am finding the video processing produces a vastly inferior picture compared to the EDGE. (The audio quality is first class with both digital sources and in analog bypass mode.)

My question is: Will the video quality improve as the unit gets burned-in with time?, or do I have a defective unit?, or is the video processing just not up to par?

To answer your question: Maybe, and, I'm going to torture you with some discourse on the subject before explaining why it's not a yes.

I came from the same exact set-up. I did notice that the EDGE was better with lower-quality material (Comedy Central, SDTV, Transfers from PC on the TiVo HDXL) but, I think that Instant-Netflix and DVD Quality-on-up looks much better on my calibrated Sharp LC-46LE700UN with the M15HD than with the DVDO Edge. Also, I'm having fewer HDMI handshake issues (read: none) with the M15HD whereas with the Edge, if you don't have it in plug-and-play mode (and get a "solid/saved in non-volatile-memory[hardly the case with poor HDMI/HDCP implementation these days]" HDCP handshake), you might be turning on-and-off components like a bad Christmas light display just to get Audio&Video...

Also, I have a 10-bit, LED-backlit display and the M15HD is MUCH better than the Edge (remember it was a firmware update for deep color...) in the x.v, expanded color-space offered by Blu-ray and my Sony BDP S-550 w/HDMIv1.3. My LED-backlit set oozes color detail. There's a clear difference in color ramps - there's zero noticeable dithering. That's what makes it a superior computer monitor too.

In the end, I agree with you that the DVDO Edge has astounding VP abilities, but I think that if you're consuming going-forward-media on going-forward-equipment, you're better off with the M15HD's Video Processing. Maybe NAD will work with the VP provider to do the reverse of Anchor Bay: release a firmware update to make SDTV-upscale look better (license Anchor Bay's algos. j.k. I don't know, Kal might...). Basically, things might get better with software fixes.

John Crlencic

P.S. Oh, don't forget the whole modular thing, you might get a cheap board for the holidays next year. Maybe something better as one of the first M15HD owners (and you came from NAD Masters equipment)

"No one can have an idea once he really starts listening" - John Cage
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:58 PM
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I am looking at M15HD and onkyo NR5007. I understand one's a processor and another a receiver .. but can someone comment on SQ between the 2

I love Iq90 and tried Yamaha DSp-Z7, Onkyo 3007. for now .. the Z7 is excellent sound seperation ... except sounds thin on kefs..

Can I say . SQ - NAD/Onkyo = 100/98

SVS nsd-10
Kef - Iq90

I mostly play mp3 directly through the receiver in stereo mode.
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vi_c View Post

I am looking at M15HD and onkyo NR5007. I understand one's a processor and another a receiver .. but can someone comment on SQ between the 2

I love Iq90 and tried Yamaha DSp-Z7, Onkyo 3007. for now .. the Z7 is excellent sound seperation ... except sounds thin on kefs..

Can I say . SQ - NAD/Onkyo = 100/98

SVS nsd-10
Kef - Iq90

I mostly play mp3 directly through the receiver in stereo mode.

Unless you're using something like the Wadia dock to transport (remember, it's the only dock that can actually transport) lossless AAC/MP3s to the NAD M15HD, you probably wouldn't ever notice a major difference between the two. I would go Onkyo in your case and save the money. Even if you were transporting lossless, I couldn't justify the cost to myself....

"No one can have an idea once he really starts listening" - John Cage
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:03 PM
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How about Quad + Iq90 (for 2 channel mp3 listening)
How's the sound seperation (movies) on M15HD in direct comparison with Z7 / onkyo
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vi_c View Post

How about Quad + Iq90 + Wadia dock (for 2 channel)
How's the sound seperation (movies) on M15HD in direct comparison with Z7 / onkyo

First, the Quad 909 (and 606 too) is a perfect match with the KEF iQ90 but I didn't need the help from the amp's mid-range abilities after running room correction because I couldn't tell the difference... There's just gobs of detail and clarity from lossless AAC through the transport and the feeling of space created by the room correction is spot-on /hair-stands-up real. Enhanced Stereo with the KEF iQ60c+iQ30s (+tons of help from the room correction) provides even more spacial realism.

I can't say because that would be an odd direct comparison, for me, to want to set-up... Maybe someone else with an M15HD and access to the Onkyo could help you out.

If I were you, I would go listen to them myself because that's the only way to tell. Personally, I take a little bit of risk and buy the item and then sell it if it doesn't sound better than my last piece of equipment (sometimes I break-even).

As a consequence, I moved the Quad 909 to Z2 duty on a pair of Totem Model 1 Signatures (formerly a Pair of Totem Tabu Monitors but they were way too big for near-field monitor use) and I couldn't get them far away enough for a good stereo image. I'm now driving the KEF iQ90s with a McIntosh MC2105 and the rest of the set-up with an Aragon 2007. I have equipment coming to do a proper A-B between the Aragon driving all channels vs using another amp for the Front L/R. The bit that I need to workout is how I compensate/confront and eliminate any problems with my Active Room Correction and the gain-matching of the amps at a certain volume. I guess that it should be interesting to find out the results - to me at least... But, that's why it's my hobby.

"No one can have an idea once he really starts listening" - John Cage
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:19 PM
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Thanks John.
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Old 12-08-2009, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vi_c View Post

How about Quad + Iq90 (for 2 channel mp3 listening)
How's the sound seperation (movies) on M15HD in direct comparison with Z7 / onkyo

I will say that if sounding thin was the problem, the MultEQ XT & Pro on the M15HD will fix that. The bass integration is incredible: I'm flat down to 20Hz

...and, you're welcome. I hope that you end up with a killer system! Also, don't forget to factor in the Room Correction costs associated with the M15HD when you compare: it's a leap forward in performance but it's not free and takes a few hours of someone's valuable time.

John

"No one can have an idea once he really starts listening" - John Cage
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:10 PM
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MY BAD. MY VERY VERY BAD!

Yesterday I posted a criticism of the video processing quality of my new M15HD. As a rule I don't attempt to evaluate any equipment until I break it in for at least 100 hours. I broke this rule because my dealer only gave me a 7-day evaluation period before deciding whether to keep it or return it.

I want to retract this criticism in the strongest posible way. When I installed the unit I removed the cables from my 3-year old M15 and plugged them in to the new M15HD. My error was assuming the upgraded power cable that worked so well with the M15 would be a proper match with the M15HD. It was not. Although it was a $1500 Nordost Brahama, it took me 4 days to think to remove it and use the supplied power cable (probably a $20 cable). This cable made all the difference. My 1-year old Pioneer PRO-FD101 Signature Elite plasma monitor never looked this good.

Now, I heartily agree with John, that the video processing is superior even to my exalted DVDO Edge with all sources I have in my system (480p, 720p, 1080i). I don't yet have a 1080p source, but beleive the reports that it excels at that, as well.

It is a great tribute to NAD for stuffing a state of the art video processor and a state of the art digital audio processor into a single box, all the while maintaining the integrity of analog audio inputs so critical for a product attempting to reproduce 2-channel stereo as well as theater surround sound, video scaling, and signal transcoding (S-video and component video to HDMI). WOW!

A BREAKTHROUGH PRODUCT AT A BARGAIN PRICE!
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C-Fine View Post

MY BAD. MY VERY VERY BAD!

Yesterday I posted a criticism of the video processing quality of my new M15HD. As a rule I don't attempt to evaluate any equipment until I break it in for at least 100 hours. I broke this rule because my dealer only gave me a 7-day evaluation period before deciding whether to keep it or return it.

I want to retract this criticism in the strongest posible way. When I installed the unit I removed the cables from my 3-year old M15 and plugged them in to the new M15HD. My error was assuming the upgraded power cable that worked so well with the M15 would be a proper match with the M15HD. It was not. Although it was a $1500 Nordost Brahama, it took me 4 days to think to remove it and use the supplied power cable (probably a $20 cable). This cable made all the difference. My 1-year old Pioneer PRO-FD101 Signature Elite plasma monitor never looked this good.

Now, I heartily agree with John, that the video processing is superior even to my exalted DVDO Edge with all sources I have in my system (480p, 720p, 1080i). I don't yet have a 1080p source, but beleive the reports that it excels at that, as well.

It is a great tribute to NAD for stuffing a state of the art video processor and a state of the art digital audio processor into a single box, all the while maintaining the integrity of analog audio inputs so critical for a product attempting to reproduce 2-channel stereo as well as theater surround sound, video scaling, and signal transcoding (S-video and component video to HDMI). WOW!

A BREAKTHROUGH PRODUCT AT A BARGAIN PRICE!

That's what I said, transistors have caught up with highly-complex software and we're, just now, standing on the precipice of the next revolution in audio & video.

"No one can have an idea once he really starts listening" - John Cage
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:10 PM
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C-Fine I find it hard to believe your Nordost power cord was inferior. But for the record don't discard it you can always try it later. I have found it is often better to return to supplied power cords till one gets a handle on things.

Its always hard when faced with a new appliance and one attempts to get it right from the start.

Certainly there is a run in time about 200 hours so you can expect improvements all round.

After that, put your Nordost power cord back, you will have got your head around the sound so will hear something hopefully an improvement.
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Old 12-08-2009, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RobertMcAdam View Post

C-Fine I find it hard to believe your Nordost power cord was inferior. But for the record don't discard it you can always try it later. I have found it is often better to return to supplied power cords till one gets a handle on things.

Its always hard when faced with a new appliance and one attempts to get it right from the start.

Certainly there is a run in time about 200 hours so you can expect improvements all round.

After that, put your Nordost power cord back, you will have got your head around the sound so will hear something hopefully an improvement.

What's going to happen, physically, to his M15HD over the next 200 hours of operation?

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Old 12-08-2009, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertMcAdam View Post

C-Fine I find it hard to believe your Nordost power cord was inferior.

After that, put your Nordost power cord back, you will have got your head around the sound so will hear something hopefully an improvement.

He was referring to video.

But still, there is no logical reason for a properly designed power cord to make any difference whatsover, and the stock cord should be properly designed. Perhaps the Nordost was designed to act as a filter of some kind and introduced noise into the A/C that affected the VP, but wow would that ever be weird, in my mind that would make it defective.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

He was referring to video.

But still, there is no logical reason for a properly designed power cord to make any difference whatsover, and the stock cord should be properly designed. Perhaps the Nordost was designed to act as a filter of some kind and introduced noise into the A/C that affected the VP, but wow would that ever be weird, in my mind that would make it defective.

Clearly defective - especially for the job it does (or should do)!

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Old 12-09-2009, 12:26 AM
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It looks like the Integra DHC-80.1 is fair competition for a M15HD head-to-head... Has anyone heard both units?

"No one can have an idea once he really starts listening" - John Cage
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnNY-C View Post

That's what I said, transistors have caught up with highly-complex software and we're, just now, standing on the precipice of the next revolution in audio & video.

Just wondering what you mean with this ?. Most (all?) scalers need to work on a per pixel base and use special hardware. For example the dvdo/abt stuff was software algo's designed to run on fpga's and later got converted to 'fixed' hardware but its still a software designer who did the work.

If your point is that more and more can be controlled/done in software you are correct but its the same design work. The downside of this is that they ship faster since they always can release a firmware update. The fact that they know that and pressure from sales to start shipping has resulted in more problems not less they feel they can handle in firmware updates.

Daniel.

for men to evolve we have to upgrade
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnNY-C View Post

..... the MultEQ XT & Pro on the M15HD .....

I thought the M15HD had Audyssey Pro, but not MultEQ XT.

Bruce
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceOmega View Post

I thought the M15HD had Audyssey Pro, but not MultEQ XT.

Bruce

They're one and the same. XT is the platform (digital EQ) built into the NAD's processor and it can only be accessed and configured by the "Pro" kit and software.

Even the stand alone Audyssey SEQ runs the XT platform, albeit with twice the resolution.
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Old 12-09-2009, 10:50 AM
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I believe the Integra DHC-80.1 and Onkyo 5007 are very similar spec wise.
I also heard they use the same components too .. though Integra is considered better in quality and warranty.
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:46 PM
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No manufacturer designs a power cord. They use the cheapest off the shelf suitable cord available.

Electrical engineers will always argue that as long as the cable has the designed capacity to carry the load you will not hear a difference.

This has always been a bone of contention but hey power cords do have an affect on the sound from what I've found, in some ways more dramatic than interconnects.

I don't believe the Nordost is acting as a filter in any way.
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