"Official" Onkyo TX-SR806 Reciever thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1842 Old 03-09-2009, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USMCGrunt0307 View Post

The example you give I would think to most people isnt an upconversion just a cable type conversion. Just because a unit can take a signal and shoot it down a different type of cable doesnt mean its adding any quality to the signal its passing.

I WILL give it to the guy that said his Kuro does a better job....its a Kuro, not much more has to be said, lol.

First, USMC, thank you for your service.

Upconversion in Onkyo's dictionary is transcoding. The changing of one signal transport to another...composite->s-vid->component->hdmi. Each transport method is *capable* of increased video quality, but doesn't guarantee it. In reality, I agree with Kplex, the only reason to use upconversion in this sense is when you can absolutely only run one cable from receiver->display for some reason.

What you seem to be referring to is upscaling. Again, as has been explained, all fixed pixel (LCD, DLP, Plasma) displays must scale the incoming signal to their native resolution if it's not already there. Scaling can never "add quality". Upscaling means creating pixels that aren't in the original source so you can get from 720x480 or 1280x720 to 1920x1080 if you have a 1080 display. The quality of the scaling varies by chipset and even within implementations of the same chipset by different vendors. But, the bottom line is all fixed pixel display will do the exact same process to scale the image as the ABT or Reon chips, but may not "guess" as well at what the extra pixels should look like.

-Brent
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post #722 of 1842 Old 03-10-2009, 12:09 PM
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Ok, I wanted to try a different cable before I threw a real hissy fit, HDMI is not working on my 806., I have tried my PS3, my Toshiba HD and my TIVO HD. I got my TIVO to work once, now I get 2sec of sound then nothing, 7 sec pause, 2 more sec of sound, then pause again and on and on,with a black picture on the tv, and with a random no signal on the reciever and a blue picture on the TV. I got the dvd menu on PS3 once, as soon as I quit to the main interface I lost signal, never heard boo from it again, and have nothing from the toshiba. Receiver is set to HDMI out, the word HDMI is in the upper right corner of the receiver when HDMI devices are plugged in, I've tried all the ports, OSD works fine over HDMI, I've tried OSD off, I've tried upconverting and pass through. I guess I'm calling onkyo, but wanted one last check to see if anyone had ever encountered this problem.
Thanks
Brian
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post #723 of 1842 Old 03-10-2009, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseenthings View Post

Ok, I wanted to try a different cable before I threw a real hissy fit, HDMI is not working on my 806., I have tried my PS3, my Toshiba HD and my TIVO HD. I got my TIVO to work once, now I get 2sec of sound then nothing, 7 sec pause, 2 more sec of sound, then pause again and on and on,with a black picture on the tv, and with a random no signal on the reciever and a blue picture on the TV. I got the dvd menu on PS3 once, as soon as I quit to the main interface I lost signal, never heard boo from it again, and have nothing from the toshiba. Receiver is set to HDMI out, the word HDMI is in the upper right corner of the receiver when HDMI devices are plugged in, I've tried all the ports, OSD works fine over HDMI, I've tried OSD off, I've tried upconverting and pass through. I guess I'm calling onkyo, but wanted one last check to see if anyone had ever encountered this problem.
Thanks
Brian

You don't mention what kind of TV you have. The failure isn't between your sources and your receiver, it's between your sources and your TV by way of your receiver. You might want to check if there are any firmware updates available for your TV.
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post #724 of 1842 Old 03-10-2009, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseenthings View Post

Ok, I wanted to try a different cable before I threw a real hissy fit, HDMI is not working on my 806., I have tried my PS3, my Toshiba HD and my TIVO HD. I got my TIVO to work once, now I get 2sec of sound then nothing, 7 sec pause, 2 more sec of sound, then pause again and on and on,with a black picture on the tv, and with a random no signal on the reciever and a blue picture on the TV. I got the dvd menu on PS3 once, as soon as I quit to the main interface I lost signal, never heard boo from it again, and have nothing from the toshiba. Receiver is set to HDMI out, the word HDMI is in the upper right corner of the receiver when HDMI devices are plugged in, I've tried all the ports, OSD works fine over HDMI, I've tried OSD off, I've tried upconverting and pass through. I guess I'm calling onkyo, but wanted one last check to see if anyone had ever encountered this problem.
Thanks
Brian

It could be that your receiver is having a difficult time communicating with your TV; especially, when all sources are involved. How old is your TV (you don't mention the model). Either it's a HDMI compatibility issue between components or a faulty receiver.
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post #725 of 1842 Old 03-10-2009, 03:03 PM
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It's a 2yr old Acer PH530 projector with HDCP HDMI, all my device connect fine when the receiver is bypassed
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post #726 of 1842 Old 03-10-2009, 03:07 PM
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I've noticed that the receiver has more difficulty with hdcp. Some times they don't handshake when my old onkyo 605 had no problems.
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post #727 of 1842 Old 03-10-2009, 06:27 PM
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have you ever bothered to check hdmi specification on all your equipment...

most 1stgen hdmi gear you buy is either hdmi 1.1 or hdmi hdmi 1.2 compliant the last time i checked the specs on hdmi, hdmi 1.2 & 1.3 are compliant with 1 another via an adapter cable
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post #728 of 1842 Old 03-10-2009, 06:33 PM
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hdmi 1.3 should be backwards compatible with earlier specs.
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post #729 of 1842 Old 03-10-2009, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic_sniper28 View Post

have you ever bothered to check hdmi specification on all your equipment...

most 1stgen hdmi gear you buy is either hdmi 1.1 or hdmi hdmi 1.2 compliant the last time i checked the specs on hdmi, hdmi 1.2 & 1.3 are compliant with 1 another via an adapter cable

An adapter cable?
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post #730 of 1842 Old 03-10-2009, 08:20 PM
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so if it's a hdcp issue, why doesn't my tivo play nice?
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post #731 of 1842 Old 03-11-2009, 10:22 AM
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I'm confused right now.

I tested the SPL of the outputs after running Audyssey, and it seems everything is more or less spot on.

However, EVERY movie I watch, the center channel dialog is VERY quiet.
The CC volume is increased a little with DynamicEQ, but still not loud enough.
I'm having to set the CC to +9.5db.

I was under the impression, that with DynamicEQ or Loudness Plus, I could watch movies at lower volumes, with the dialog still audible/enjoyable.

Without increasing the level of the CC to +9.5~, no matter how loud I turn the volume up, the surrounds/fronts often times are loud to the point that I miss dialog.

Any ideas?
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post #732 of 1842 Old 03-11-2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echo512 View Post

I'm confused right now.

I tested the SPL of the outputs after running Audyssey, and it seems everything is more or less spot on.

However, EVERY movie I watch, the center channel dialog is VERY quiet.
The CC volume is increased a little with DynamicEQ, but still not loud enough.
I'm having to set the CC to +9.5db.

I was under the impression, that with DynamicEQ or Loudness Plus, I could watch movies at lower volumes, with the dialog still audible/enjoyable.

Without increasing the level of the CC to +9.5~, no matter how loud I turn the volume up, the surrounds/fronts often times are loud to the point that I miss dialog.

Any ideas?

Check to make sure your center channel speaker is not wired out of phase. If there is any doubt, reverse the +/- connections and see if that helps.
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post #733 of 1842 Old 03-11-2009, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseenthings View Post

so if it's a hdcp issue, why doesn't my tivo play nice?

TIVO probably wasn't tested to be used as an HDMI device. Most cable boxes are not and will have handshake issues, likely due to the fact they output at a maximum of 1080i or 720P, so HDMI is deemed unnecessary.
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post #734 of 1842 Old 03-11-2009, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echo512 View Post

I'm confused right now.

I tested the SPL of the outputs after running Audyssey, and it seems everything is more or less spot on.

However, EVERY movie I watch, the center channel dialog is VERY quiet.
The CC volume is increased a little with DynamicEQ, but still not loud enough.
I'm having to set the CC to +9.5db.

I was under the impression, that with DynamicEQ or Loudness Plus, I could watch movies at lower volumes, with the dialog still audible/enjoyable.

Without increasing the level of the CC to +9.5~, no matter how loud I turn the volume up, the surrounds/fronts often times are loud to the point that I miss dialog.

Any ideas?

Dynamic EQ doesn't do much for dialog. It is designed to increase surround ambiance and dynamics at low levels by boosting the surround channels and increasing bass output to compensate for the loss of small details and dynamic impact at low listening levels.

What you're experiencing is the bane of many in the home theatre era. Sound mixers create soundtracks with large dynamic shifts, so quiet stuff sounds quiet and loud stuff sounds really loud - they want you to jump out of your seat when things get hairy. I find the sacrifice is often that dialog is difficult to hear when not listening at reference levels. And even then, everything else is way too loud.
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post #735 of 1842 Old 03-11-2009, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post

Dynamic EQ doesn't do much for dialog. It is designed to increase surround ambiance and dynamics at low levels by boosting the surround channels and increasing bass output to compensate for the loss of small details and dynamic impact at low listening levels.

What you're experiencing is the bane of many in the home theatre era. Sound mixers create soundtracks with large dynamic shifts, so quiet stuff sounds quiet and loud stuff sounds really loud - they want you to jump out of your seat when things get hairy. I find the sacrifice is often that dialog is difficult to hear when not listening at reference levels. And even then, everything else is way too loud.

I've found Dynamic EQ to be very effective in evening out volumes in my system.

I never listen at reference level as it is just too loud. I can now set the volume of my system to get the desired level of volume in the dialog and the sound from the other channels blends well with the dialog.

Movies do have large dynamic ranges where loud sounds are really loud, compared to average dialog, but it is rare that I have to adjust the volume during a movie, once I get the dialog where I want it.
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post #736 of 1842 Old 03-11-2009, 03:34 PM
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I've ordered the 806 and now want to order some speakers (I know and will check out the speaker section) and was wondering if the Energy Classic 5.1 speakers would match up well with the 806. I know there are a lot better speakers out there but these seem to get rave reviews. I will only be using the receiver and speakers for HT.
Gary
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post #737 of 1842 Old 03-11-2009, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post

TIVO probably wasn't tested to be used as an HDMI device. Most cable boxes are not and will have handshake issues, likely due to the fact they output at a maximum of 1080i or 720P, so HDMI is deemed unnecessary.

I'll give you that many cable boxes have handshake issues. My Mot 6812 box will play nice with my Monoprice HDMI switcher but will not work through my 806.

However I don't buy your reason why that would be so.
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post #738 of 1842 Old 03-11-2009, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harris48cars View Post

I've ordered the 806 and now want to order some speakers (I know and will check out the speaker section) and was wondering if the Energy Classic 5.1 speakers would match up well with the 806. I know there are a lot better speakers out there but these seem to get rave reviews. I will only be using the receiver and speakers for HT.
Gary

That's a lot of receiver for those small speakers. Check into the energy c-300 tower package from wwstereo.
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post #739 of 1842 Old 03-11-2009, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseenthings View Post

Ok, I wanted to try a different cable before I threw a real hissy fit, HDMI is not working on my 806., I have tried my PS3, my Toshiba HD and my TIVO HD. I got my TIVO to work once, now I get 2sec of sound then nothing, 7 sec pause, 2 more sec of sound, then pause again and on and on,with a black picture on the tv, and with a random no signal on the reciever and a blue picture on the TV. I got the dvd menu on PS3 once, as soon as I quit to the main interface I lost signal, never heard boo from it again, and have nothing from the toshiba. Receiver is set to HDMI out, the word HDMI is in the upper right corner of the receiver when HDMI devices are plugged in, I've tried all the ports, OSD works fine over HDMI, I've tried OSD off, I've tried upconverting and pass through. I guess I'm calling onkyo, but wanted one last check to see if anyone had ever encountered this problem.
Thanks
Brian


What's your device start order? Experimenting with the power-up sequence tends to cure a lot of problems like this. Try having the display powered up and stable first, then the 806, and finally the source(s).

-Brent
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post #740 of 1842 Old 03-11-2009, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktoolsie View Post

I'll give you that many cable boxes have handshake issues. My Mot 6812 box will play nice with my Monoprice HDMI switcher but will not work through my 806.

However I don't buy your reason why that would be so.

I can't give you a better reason. I used to sell home theatre electronics and continually fielded calls from customers who could not get their cable boxes to work over HDMI. When reading the manuals of these devices, almost every one recommended a basic connection via component cables.

I don't know how difficult is to create a HDCP compliant device, but consider the advantages of HDMI: ability to output 1080P signals and lossless audio support. Neither of those advantages apply to today's cable boxes, so component offers no disadvantage to HDMI (although some claim HDMI offers a sharper picture. This is silliness, and is completely dependent on the what you are connecting it to).
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post #741 of 1842 Old 03-11-2009, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

I've found Dynamic EQ to be very effective in evening out volumes in my system.

I never listen at reference level as it is just too loud. I can now set the volume of my system to get the desired level of volume in the dialog and the sound from the other channels blends well with the dialog.

Movies do have large dynamic ranges where loud sounds are really loud, compared to average dialog, but it is rare that I have to adjust the volume during a movie, once I get the dialog where I want it.

Yes, that is the idea in nutshell: to match the level of the surrounds to the rest of the movie. It's a good rule of thumb to adjust the volume of your system to the core dialog in the movie and let the soundtrack do the rest. But when watching any movie, the dynamic range is still there - the dialog and action sequences aren't going to match. The only program I know that fixes that is Dynamic Volume - and having used it, it does work but sacrifices sound quality to a degree. In other words, having some dynamic range is important to sound quality. You just have to live with the sudden "pick up" in the audio.
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post #742 of 1842 Old 03-12-2009, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post

Yes, that is the idea in nutshell: to match the level of the surrounds to the rest of the movie. It's a good rule of thumb to adjust the volume of your system to the core dialog in the movie and let the soundtrack do the rest. But when watching any movie, the dynamic range is still there - the dialog and action sequences aren't going to match. The only program I know that fixes that is Dynamic Volume - and having used it, it does work but sacrifices sound quality to a degree. In other words, having some dynamic range is important to sound quality. You just have to live with the sudden "pick up" in the audio.

That is why most all receivers have some sort of "night mode" or other compression scheme.

These all lessen the difference between the loud and soft parts of the soundtrack, so you don't have to jump for the remote when loud sound effects occur.
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post #743 of 1842 Old 03-12-2009, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subiefast View Post

That's a lot of receiver for those small speakers. Check into the energy c-300 tower package from wwstereo.

I second the c-300 setup. I'm running it + 2 c-r100s in a 7.0 setup at the moment and they're amazing for the price.
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post #744 of 1842 Old 03-12-2009, 10:06 AM
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All,

Just set up my 806 with a 5.0 channel setup (no sub but large front speakers) and HDMI to my Blu-ray player.

My question is aboout how to assign listening modes to sources. I know how to do it, looking more for advice on the actual selections.

For CD, tuner, and iPod, I prefer to listen in 2-channel stereo mode. This is a fairly easy setup to make using the "Listening Mode Preset" menu--basically, I've set all of the options to "stereo" for the CD, tuner, and iPod inputs.

My questions is how best to do this for the DVD setup?

My old Sony had an "AFD" mode where it would determine the source material and set the right listening mode. If it found Dolby 2.0, it would set to a 2-channel stereo mode. If it found Dolby 5.1, it would set to the 5.1 mode. If it found DTS, it would set to DTS. Etc.

I'd like to set up the Onkyo to choose the right listening mode based upon the material it receives. Unfortunately, for my setup, I'm not exactly sure which selections I should make.

Here's what I was thinking (working off the manual, not the unit, so I may not have all the options correct); again my DVD connection is HDMI exclusively, bitstreaming everything from a Panasonic BD-35K; I use the DVD almost exclusively for DVD, but will occasionally drop a CD in:
  • Analog/PCM:? not sure what would come in over this; just CDs if I play them in the DVD player? or would I expect to see this encoding on a DVD?
  • Dolby Digital: Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital Plus? (not sure if I set it to "plus" if it will downconvert if it gets a DD source, or if it even lets me select plus over the standard)
  • DTS: DTS or DTS 96/24? (again, not sure if it will downconvert)
  • D.F.2ch: stereo or ProLogic II?
  • D.F.Mono: mono or ProLogic II?
  • Multich PCM: ? not even sure what would come in as this source
  • 192k/176.4k: ? again, not sure what would come in as this source
  • Dolby TrueHD: Dolby True HD
  • DTS-HD MA: DTS-HD HR or DTS-HD MA (again, not sure if it will downconvert)
  • DSD: ?
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post #745 of 1842 Old 03-12-2009, 12:49 PM
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Looking for the specs. of the SR806 replacement. Will it be the NR807 or the NR1007? Someone who knows please post when available.
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post #746 of 1842 Old 03-12-2009, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post

TIVO probably wasn't tested to be used as an HDMI device. Most cable boxes are not and will have handshake issues, likely due to the fact they output at a maximum of 1080i or 720P, so HDMI is deemed unnecessary.

What the H*ll are you talking about. HDMI is unnecessary? All I can say is holy cow.
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post #747 of 1842 Old 03-12-2009, 01:45 PM
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There really is something wrong with the handshaking on the 806... stuff that worked perfectly before with my 605, now have some issues with my 806.
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post #748 of 1842 Old 03-12-2009, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omegagen View Post

Someone in the Toshiba HD-DVD forum solved my delima with my A35. It does bitstream HD formats, but I had to turn ON "Digital Direct" and BINGO! While demo'ing I am Ledgend the Onkyo showed Dolby TrueHD. Guys, I tell ya that Toshiba A35 is the bomb! I HATE that HDDVD lost out to Blu-Ray. If you can score one used...get it! Even the upconverting ability is good!

As for the PS3 I turned off all the PCM selections and was able to get THX Cinema. It seems more enveloping...IMHO. Mulichannel PCM was good, but I can't say it was "all that".

While demo'ing Gears 2 on my Xbox 360 I assigned THX Games for it and man it was MUCH better than the HK AVR7200. I heard sounds in that game I never noticed.

Still learning my TX-SR806, but so far I am satisfied.

Thanks for all your Help!! Because you all have helped me hopefully I can return the favor to someone less knowledgable than me.

If you have your PS3 setup this way then you ARE NOT getting TrueHD or DTS HD MA. Make sure you turn the PS3 to PCM and also make sure you check the audio options at the beginning of the Blu-ray to select whatever lossless option there is. That's the best way to use the PS3 for Blu-ray.
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post #749 of 1842 Old 03-12-2009, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobrigavitch View Post

What the H*ll are you talking about. HDMI is unnecessary? All I can say is holy cow.

I used to work with a custom installer. Ask any installer how much fun HDMI is to work with. Almost all prefer component. If you're not outputting in 1080P or requiring lossless audio, then the two connections are equivalent.
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post #750 of 1842 Old 03-12-2009, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

That is why most all receivers have some sort of "night mode" or other compression scheme.

These all lessen the difference between the loud and soft parts of the soundtrack, so you don't have to jump for the remote when loud sound effects occur.

Agreed. I only wish DTS would incorporate dynamic compression into its soundtracks in the same manner Dolby does with its TrueHD tracks. I find the DTS tracks have the largest dynamic shifts and night mode is much like Dynamic Volume - it deflates the sound artificially, as opposed to the built in compensation provided in Dolby tracks.
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Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors



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