Enhancing Yamaha AVRs via RS-232 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 291 Old 09-16-2008, 09:31 PM
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002640
It's working. Volume is set to 67.5. Appears "Main Volume" on screen

300000
Doesn't work - nothing appears on screen.
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post #32 of 291 Old 09-16-2008, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikl1984 View Post

002640
It's working. Volume is set to 67.5. Appears "Main Volume" on screen

300000
Doesn't work - nothing appears on screen.

Thanks, but it's not great news because it looks like the 2700 isn't working as documented (top of page 11 in the document I referred to in the first post).

What if the OSD is currently being shown (i.e. you're in one of the menus). Does it show on screen instead of on the front panel? I'm almost out of ideas at this point.
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post #33 of 291 Old 09-17-2008, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Thanks, but it's not great news because it looks like the 2700 isn't working as documented (top of page 11 in the document I referred to in the first post).

What if the OSD is currently being shown (i.e. you're in one of the menus). Does it show on screen instead of on the front panel? I'm almost out of ideas at this point.

I'll try the Hyper stuff later today, but I'm expecting similar results as Mikl.

I'm gathering that your program works fine on the 1800/3800 but just will not function on the 1700/2700. Correct?

Is Mikl getting the same results as I am from our previous 2700 tests?
i.e. The front AVR panel seems to want to display the program info but just *flashes* very quickly?
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post #34 of 291 Old 09-17-2008, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

I'm gathering that your program works fine on the 1800/3800 but just will not function on the 1700/2700. Correct?

So far we have three data points: it works well on my 1800 and doesn't work on two 2700s. And now we seem to have confirmed with the HyperTerminal test that the problem is with the 2700 and not my program.

BTW, I have Short Messages turned ON in the menu, I doubt if that makes any difference but could you please check your setting.

I would still like to know if the program works with the 3800, or even someone else's 1800, if anyone can try that.
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post #35 of 291 Old 09-17-2008, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikl1984 View Post

002640
It's working. Volume is set to 67.5. Appears "Main Volume" on screen

300000
Doesn't work - nothing appears on screen.

DITTO here. Exact same results.
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post #36 of 291 Old 09-17-2008, 09:59 AM
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I have Short Messages turned ON too
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post #37 of 291 Old 09-17-2008, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikl1984 View Post

i have short messages turned on too

+1
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post #38 of 291 Old 09-17-2008, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

An easy way to do manual adjustment of the PEQ on the 1800 would be very useful, but notice that there aren't any control commands to set the PEQ parameters (unlike on the 3800). As far as I know it can only be done by restoring settings (or a system memory) that have YPAO enabled.

For the prologue (if you mean the "configuration command" that's a few hundred bytes long with all the current settings), I haven't looked at it in detail but I will be soon.

Nope - don't mean the few hundred bytes, but the stuff sent to the RX-V1800 before it returns different few hundred bytes (portmon output, portmon logs COM activities, and is part of the sysinternals tools, which you can get from Microsoft - google for sysinternals and download, first link, get the entire suite, top right on the page):
18 0.00004805 ReceiverManager IRP_MJ_WRITE Serial0 SUCC ESS Length 7: 02 32 30 30 30 30 03
19 0.00003492 ReceiverManager IRP_MJ_WRITE Serial0 SUCC ESS Length 7: 02 30 37 41 31 44 03
20 0.00003520 ReceiverManager IRP_MJ_WRITE Serial0 SUCC ESS Length 7: 02 30 37 41 31 44 03
21 0.00003520 ReceiverManager IRP_MJ_WRITE Serial0 SUCC ESS Length 7: 02 30 37 45 37 45 03
22 0.00003464 ReceiverManager IRP_MJ_WRITE Serial0 SUCC ESS Length 7: 02 30 37 45 37 45 03

This is not the sequence that is in RX-Vx800_RS232C_Standard.pdf to request the configuration. Ruturned data is also different, but I did not try analyse it. This might be the key to accessing PEQ data (if thats blocked at all - I doubt it). Later in the port log, PEQ settings are read with the sequences defined in RX-Vx800_RS232C_Extended.pdf. (Got the two pdf files from Yamaha USA, downloads for the RX-V1800, if I recall correctly.)

Best,
Otto
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post #39 of 291 Old 09-17-2008, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OttoElectronic View Post

Nope - don't mean the few hundred bytes, but the stuff sent to the RX-V1800 before it returns different few hundred bytes

Yes I later realized what you meant and answered here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post14670999 (but I cunningly switched threads on you so you wouldn't find it ). I was thinking of writing an application to allow easy manual use of PEQ on the 1800, but it probably won't happen very soon. So if you figure it out first please let me know.

BTW if you have an 1800 and a PC set up with an RS-232 connection, do you think you could try my VolumeControl application (attached to post #3) as a sanity check that what I uploaded can actually work for other people. The only prerequisite is that you have to have the Microsoft .NET framework version 2.0 installed.
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post #40 of 291 Old 09-17-2008, 08:24 PM
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Hi guys! All of this sound pretty cool. I scanned over the thread and it seems that not many 3800 users have provided input. I'm wondering if any of these applications can effect my 3800 via the network connection. I have an ethernet cable permanently attached to my wireless router which communicates with my laptop. Can this only happen through an RS-232 connection?

I've got pretty good vision, but I would love to see the dBs in the larger format.

"A city on a hill cannot be hidden..."
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post #41 of 291 Old 09-17-2008, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluCheez View Post

Hi guys! All of this sound pretty cool. I scanned over the thread and it seems that not many 3800 users have provided input. I'm wondering if any of these applications can effect my 3800 via the network connection. I have an ethernet cable permanently attached to my wireless router which communicates with my laptop. Can this only happen through an RS-232 connection?

I'm not very familiar with the network interface of the 3800, but as far as I know it's not meant for control purposes. The new 3900 is advertised as having web browser control, but I don't know if they will document the protocol to allow 3rd party network control apps, and it's possible you won't be able to do everything with it that RS-232 supports.
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post #42 of 291 Old 09-18-2008, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

BTW if you have an 1800 and a PC set up with an RS-232 connection, do you think you could try my VolumeControl application (attached to post #3) as a sanity check that what I uploaded can actually work for other people. The only prerequisite is that you have to have the Microsoft .NET framework version 2.0 installed.

Just wanted to let you know that I got this to work with my 1800. It was cool until my convoluted setup seems to have stopped sending data from the AVR (it still is sending text to the display but not getting any data from the AVR). I have a USB Cat5 extender to a USB powered hub to a USB/RS232 converter to a mini null modem adapter . It's amazing I got it to work at all.

What I noticed before my setup failed:

1) It was overriding my volume presets. If I chose a preset with a lower volume than the current volume it would reduce the volume by 2 as if I hit "Volume Down".

2) If I held down the volume up/down remote button to make quick and large volume changes it never shows your improved volume display (I assume this is due to the problem where you can't keep it from flashing to the default display when you write custom text to the display) but then I still see the meter until I stop changing the volume.

3) Even with the nice big numbers it still is kind of difficult to see the volume from my seating distance (you can't help with this can you )?


I guess I just need something like the Denon 3808 or the new RX-V3900 with on-screen displays but I really don't have that in the budget right now.
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post #43 of 291 Old 09-18-2008, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crbaldwin View Post

Just wanted to let you know that I got this to work with my 1800.

Phew, so I wasn't just imagining that it worked (was beginning to wonder after the 2700's didn't work).
Quote:


It was cool until my convoluted setup seems to have stopped sending data from the AVR (it still is sending text to the display but not getting any data from the AVR).

Not sure what happened there. I did notice that my laptop USB to RS-232 converter doesn't work after coming back from standby mode, but my old clunker with a real COM port has never failed. Did you have to restart the program or reboot the computer to get it back?
Quote:


What I noticed before my setup failed:

1) It was overriding my volume presets. If I chose a preset with a lower volume than the current volume it would reduce the volume by 2 as if I hit "Volume Down".

Good point. I never tested it with volume presets (are those the volume memories that can only be accessed through special remote codes?).
Quote:


2) If I held down the volume up/down remote button to make quick and large volume changes it never shows your improved volume display (I assume this is due to the problem where you can't keep it from flashing to the default display when you write custom text to the display) but then I still see the meter until I stop changing the volume.

Yes, after a lot of experimentation I decided to do it that way. The flashing looks bad and it can't keep up with a lot of very rapid changes. So it goes back to the volume bar temporarily, and shows the number again just after you release the button.
Quote:


3) Even with the nice big numbers it still is kind of difficult to see the volume from my seating distance (you can't help with this can you )?

Unfortunately when they moved from one line of text (like my old 5760) to two lines (like the 1800), the characters got a bit smaller.

I may PM you later with a test you can do to find out what the volume presets are reporting back to the program. It should be easy enough to handle them.
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post #44 of 291 Old 09-20-2008, 09:18 AM
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post #45 of 291 Old 09-20-2008, 09:46 AM
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Works fine on my 3800 and I really like having the volume info on screen, But I don't have a computer (at lest not a windows box) that I can leave hooked up all the time. I'll keep watching this thread to see what other cool thing you think up next!

Thanks for taking the time,
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post #46 of 291 Old 09-20-2008, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyFLA View Post

Works fine on my 3800 and I really like having the volume info on screen, But I don't have a computer (at lest not a windows box) that I can leave hooked up all the time. I'll keep watching this thread to see what other cool thing you think up next!

Thanks for the feedback. It could ultimately be ported to any small low-power device with a serial port, but it's maybe a bit early yet for that because there are obviously some things that still need improving.
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post #47 of 291 Old 09-20-2008, 12:20 PM
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post #48 of 291 Old 09-26-2008, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Still no explanation of why the Volume Control program doesn't work on the 1700/2700, but I uploaded a new version (1.03) in post #3 that could be useful for anyone doing their own experiments with the RS-232 protocol.

If you run the program from the command line (or from a shortcut) with the /debug flag, it will open in a larger window and let you send arbitrary RS-232 commands and see the reports returned by the receiver. i.e. if you type "VolumeControl /debug" you will see this:



You can see at the bottom left the standard command 22001 (request main volume as text) was sent, and in the window above it the report returned includes the volume value -14.0dB.

At the bottom right the extended command 034000 was sent (read the current PEQ parameters for band 1 of the centre channel). The reply includes the frequency, Q and gain parameters.

For standard commands you type all the hex digits, and the program adds the initial STX and terminating ETX automatically. For extended commands you type only the data portion (DT0-DTx), and the program automatically adds the complete header (including the length) plus the checksum and terminating ETX.

Make sure you enable "Show bytes received" in order to see the reports from the receiver.

Since the READY command is a special case (it's a command that doesn't start with STX), just type the word READY instead of the hex digits.

For the bytes received, note that STX is shown as "<", ETX as ">", DC1 as "[" and DC4 as "(".
LL
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post #49 of 291 Old 10-10-2008, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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A program to let you make manual adjustments to the Parametric Equalizer (PEQ) on the RX-V1700/1800/1900, which normally don't allow it. It will look something like this,



You can also see a graph of the frequency response (shown in the next post), which makes manual adjustments easier. This should make the program useful even if you have a 2700/3800/3900. It also allows you to save your current PEQ settings to a file a lot quicker than you can with the Receiver Manager software.

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post #50 of 291 Old 10-23-2008, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I released PEQedit v1.0 (see next post). The main user interface is shown in the previous post, and the graphical display of the PEQ resonse looks like this:



This is an actual YPAO result for my front right speaker. Goodness knows what the big dip at 100Hz is, but that's one reason I don't like to use the YPAO results without checking them and possibly doing some manual tweaks.

The thick black line is the overall response, and the thin red lines are the individual PEQ filters (for which you can see the actual settings by looking at the other window, as shown in the previous post).

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post #51 of 291 Old 10-26-2008, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's the first version of PEQedit (see previous posts for screenshots). Even without an RS-232 connection you can play with the parametric EQ settings and get a feel for how the filters modify the frequency response. With an RS-232 connection you can upload your current PEQ settings and save them on your computer, or modify them and download them back to the receiver.

I've only been able to do intensive testing on my 1800, but hopefully it should also work on the 1700/1900/2700/3800. Just remember to save your current settings in a system memory before downloading modified values!

The filter responses displayed by the program should be very accurate, as they are based on actual measurements made on an RX-V1800 (thanks to OttoElectronic).

Suggestions for improvements are welcome (as are bug reports!).

Edit: I removed the attachment from this post as there's now a newer version (see the first post for a link to the latest version). The new version is known to work with the 1900.
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post #52 of 291 Old 10-27-2008, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Each time Yamaha introduces new models it seems they change slightly the way that different PEQ types can be selected. So until PEQedit is tried on each model I won't know for sure it works as intended (I only have an 1800 to test on, and I know it works on that model).

The attached file (PEQtest.peq after you unzip it) can be loaded into PEQedit and, as you can see from the response curves, it changes the tonal balance of the front L and R speakers dramatically so that you can easily hear the difference when playing the receiver's pink noise test tones (the front left speaker should sound much higher pitched than the front right).

If anyone can try it, please let me know on which model and whether it worked properly. Also please report the model ID displayed by PEQedit (the number just after the model name, R0227 for example).

And don't forget to save your settings first and restore them afterwards (in a system memory, or with PEQedit).

 

PEQtest.zip 0.876953125k . file
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post #53 of 291 Old 10-28-2008, 12:45 AM
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I can confirm it works fine on the RX-V3800 (R0225) (Australian model).
Thanks for the efforts you are going to here, there is so many parameters to tweak with these units and you are doing a very comprehensive job!
Regards
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post #54 of 291 Old 10-28-2008, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus_tony01 View Post

I can confirm it works fine on the RX-V3800 (R0225) (Australian model).
Thanks for the efforts you are going to here, there is so many parameters to tweak with these units and you are doing a very comprehensive job!
Regards

That's great, thanks for testing. If you have any ideas for new features, let me know.
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post #55 of 291 Old 11-05-2008, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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It seems the new RX-V3900 (and presumably the RX-Z7) work a little differently and PEQedit needs to be updated to handle them (for one thing the first four PEQ bands now go down to 31Hz, not just the first two).

I'll make this change at some point, and maybe also support a network connection to these models as well as RS-232.
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post #56 of 291 Old 11-13-2008, 04:31 AM
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Thanks in advance - Richard

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post #57 of 291 Old 11-20-2008, 09:17 AM
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I try to check Signal Info (MPCM from my Radeon HD4550 HDMI to RX-V2700) via Volume Control.
But receive in result empty spaces in all tabs

What's matter?
If I switch to another input - information appears.
I am really happy -5.1 LPCM 192kHz in TMT
LL
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post #58 of 291 Old 11-20-2008, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikl1984 View Post

I try to check Signal Info (MPCM from my Radeon HD4550 HDMI to RX-V2700) via Volume Control.
But receive in result empty spaces in all tabs
...
What's matter?
If I switch to another input - information appears.
I am really happy -5.1 LPCM 192kHz in TMT

As the saying goes, it's a feature not a bug .

When VolumeControl is started it doesn't query the receiver for information, it just waits for playback status reports that the receiver sends when there's a change in status. So if the program is running before you start playing something, it will get a status report with the new signal info. And whenever you switch inputs the receiver will send another status report (so as you found out you can force the info to be sent by switching inputs, even if you only select the same input that's already selected).

This seemed to work OK as it's the kind of program that you normally leave running the whole time, so it can receive the signal info as soon as you start playing something.

(Also, since the text strings don't show up on the front panel of the 2700, I guess you don't need to select any of those timed messages --- not that it should do any harm.)
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post #59 of 291 Old 11-20-2008, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikl1984 View Post

I try to check Signal Info (MPCM from my Radeon HD4550 HDMI to RX-V2700) via Volume Control.
...
If I switch to another input - information appears.
I am really happy -5.1 LPCM 192kHz in TMT

I assume the info was what you were expecting? Because I found out now that I can bitstream HD codecs to my 1800 (from a Panasonic BD35 BD player) that the playback status reports are wrong in some cases (they report 192kHz for TrueHD and DTS-HD bitstreams even for tracks that are only 48kHz). The signal info reported in the 1800 GUI is correct, it's just the RS-232 reports that are wrong. But this only seems to affect the new HD bitstream formats, not PCM.
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post #60 of 291 Old 11-20-2008, 11:08 AM
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Data depends on player:
PowerDVD - 48kHz
TMT - 192kHz
In all cases I didn't see bitrate

What's reason?
LL
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