Enhancing Yamaha AVRs via RS-232 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 291 Old 01-07-2009, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 6,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

Great programs! Just trying to understand PEQedit. When making manual changes, should I be adjusting the filters until the thick black line (response) is flat if I'm trying to get a flat response? There are some weird things YPAO has done to create some serious dips in my front channels that makes me wonder if I'm really doing the right thing...

I ran YPAO in FRONT mode last, but loaded the FLAT settings from System Memory 1. Is the frequency response I'm seeing that of my last run in FRONT mode? If so, my manual edits for FLAT mode (3 YPAO runs ago) is all wrong!

I should have written more complete documentation, but that's always the last thing to get done!

You need to realise that PEQedit only shows you the filter response, but it doesn't have the information needed to tell you whether the response is correct or not (it doesn't have access to the measurements of your room and speaker response that YPAO made). Let's assume YPAO is trying to flatten the response. It made actual measurements of the in-room response with the microphone when you ran auto-setup, and calculated filters that produce the inverse response. e.g. if you see a big dip in the filter response curve, it's there because YPAO measured a peak at that frequency and is trying to cancel it out.

Often you want to keep most of the YPAO filters, but you might not like what it did to the treble (for example). So you upload the PEQ values, add extra filters to cut or boost the treble a bit, then download the settings back to the receiver.

Or you might plot the curves to identify the extreme dips (or peaks) that might be better controlled with room treatments instead of EQ. e.g. you see a big dip in the curve at 80Hz, you might want to try and improve it by adding bass traps, moving your subwoofer to another location, etc. Then re-run YPAO and see if the dip is less. It's usually better to fix extreme problems with room treatments than EQ.

Or you might use PEQedit just to save multiple YPAO settings while experimenting if the 6 system memories are not enough (it only takes 5 seconds to upload settings with PEQedit, while Receiver Manager takes 5 minutes).

The other important thing is to know which settings you are working on, and that's different for different models. I think you have the 6190 (same as the 1800) and that only has one active set of YPAO filters at a time. It is called Front, Flat or Natural depending on the mode you selected when you ran YPAO, but that's just a name.

If you run YPAO and don't save the results to a system memory, then you only have the active copy (e.g. in Front mode if that's what you chose). If you then reload System Memory 1 you overwrite the last YPAO run and you've lost it. The active PEQ filters are now whatever you last saved in Memory 1.

PEQedit only works with the active set of filters. So either run YPAO or load a previously-saved YPAO result from a system memory (to make that set of filters active), upload the settings, make changes with PEQedit, download the changes (into the active set), then don't forget to save the modified filters (which are now active) to a Memory if you want to keep them.

Hope that makes sense.
kriktsemaj99 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 291 Old 01-07-2009, 11:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
daMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

I should have written more complete documentation, but that's always the last thing to get done!

Ya, I'm a software developer too and I know what you mean Btw, I think you've done an awesome job and if it wasn't for your VolumeControl app I'd probably return the 6190 and keep my ol' RX-V2400. I need to see what volume level I'm listening at and I can't understand why the hell Yamaha would've changed the display to show a useless progress bar! I wish I could get my hands on the firmware source and compiler and I'd make it a permanent fix, since now I can only have it the way I want while my HTPC is running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

You need to realise that PEQedit only shows you the filter response, but it doesn't have the information needed to tell you whether the response is correct or not (it doesn't have access to the measurements of your room and speaker response that YPAO made). Let's assume YPAO is trying to flatten the response. It made actual measurements of the in-room response with the microphone when you ran auto-setup, and calculated filters that produce the inverse response. e.g. if you see a big dip in the filter response curve, it's there because YPAO measured a peak at that frequency and is trying to cancel it out.

Often you want to keep most of the YPAO filters, but you might not like what it did to the treble (for example). So you upload the PEQ values, add extra filters to cut or boost the treble a bit, then download the settings back to the receiver.

Or you might plot the curves to identify the extreme dips (or peaks) that might be better controlled with room treatments instead of EQ. e.g. you see a big dip in the curve at 80Hz, you might want to try and improve it by adding bass traps, moving your subwoofer to another location, etc. Then re-run YPAO and see if the dip is less. It's usually better to fix extreme problems with room treatments than EQ.

Or you might use PEQedit just to save multiple YPAO settings while experimenting if the 6 system memories are not enough (it only takes 5 seconds to upload settings with PEQedit, while Receiver Manager takes 5 minutes).

The other important thing is to know which settings you are working on, and that's different for different models. I think you have the 6190 (same as the 1800) and that only has one active set of YPAO filters at a time. It is called Front, Flat or Natural depending on the mode you selected when you ran YPAO, but that's just a name.

If you run YPAO and don't save the results to a system memory, then you only have the active copy (e.g. in Front mode if that's what you chose). If you then reload System Memory 1 you overwrite the last YPAO run and you've lost it. The active PEQ filters are now whatever you last saved in Memory 1.

PEQedit only works with the active set of filters. So either run YPAO or load a previously-saved YPAO result from a system memory (to make that set of filters active), upload the settings, make changes with PEQedit, download the changes (into the active set), then don't forget to save the modified filters (which are now active) to a Memory if you want to keep them.

Hope that makes sense.

Makes total sense now. Basically, if YPAO is trying to flatten my speaker response then the thick black line in PEQedit can be viewed as the inverse of my actual speaker response.

I am using the system memories and have stored 3 different YPAO runs (FLAT, NATURAL, FRONT). I honestly can't tell a huge difference between any of them, and in fact haven't decided if I like it better with PEQ off. On my ol' RX-V2400 I had run it in FLAT mode and had left it on because it sounded slightly better than no PEQ.

What I would like to do is use PEQedit to flatten out the freq. response of my 2 VTF-3s, however the version I'm using doesn't allow me to add new frequencies to the ones YPAO determined (v1.1.0.2). I know PEQ doesn't go below 31Hz but I have a slight peak around 50Hz and dip around 80Hz and it would be great if I could use PEQedit to flatten that out as much as possible.

Finally, I find it strange that my RX-V2400 PEQ results are so different than that of the HTR-6190. Same speakers, same room, same mic. You'd think they'd both give the exact same results. Weird.
daMaster is offline  
post #93 of 291 Old 01-07-2009, 12:31 PM
Member
 
veggav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

That should give you a serial port, but you will still need a null modem (crossover) cable to connect it to the receiver. That cable will need female DB9 connectors on both ends.

I've found this one
http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/M...null-modem-_JM

Is that one I need ?
veggav is offline  
post #94 of 291 Old 01-07-2009, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 6,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

...What I would like to do is use PEQedit to flatten out the freq. response of my 2 VTF-3s, however the version I'm using doesn't allow me to add new frequencies to the ones YPAO determined (v1.1.0.2). I know PEQ doesn't go below 31Hz but I have a slight peak around 50Hz and dip around 80Hz and it would be great if I could use PEQedit to flatten that out as much as possible.

YPAO will choose up to 7 filter frequencies per channel from the list of supported frequencies. PEQedit gives you full access to the supported frequencies, but I can't change the list and I can't use more than 7 per channel. If all 7 filters are already in use you have to compromise and reuse some of them, but usually a few of the YPAO filters will be doing so little (i.e. they have such small gain values) that you can reuse them to do something else instead. Certainly anything with a gain of +/- 0.5dB could be reused, and even those with +/- 1.0dB if you need to make a more important adjustment elsewhere.

For example, look at the YPAO results here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post14839932. All 7 filters are being used, but I don't think band 7 is doing anything useful. Unfortunately band 7 doesn't support the low frequencies though. That's one of the improvements made for the 3900 and Z7 --- four bands per channel support the low frequencies, rather than two.

Quote:


Finally, I find it strange that my RX-V2400 PEQ results are so different than that of the HTR-6190. Same speakers, same room, same mic. You'd think they'd both give the exact same results. Weird.

Do you have the 2400 results written down (frequency, gain and Q)? How different are they? Also did you really use the same mic (because the 6190 mic may be calibrated differently from the 2400 mic). The YPAO algorithm may also have changed, and I don't think the single point YPAO is that good anyway. By several accounts the multi-point YPAO of the 1900/3900/Z7 is quite a bit better.
kriktsemaj99 is online now  
post #95 of 291 Old 01-07-2009, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 6,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by veggav View Post

I've found this one
http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/M...null-modem-_JM

Is that one I need ?

Yes, that should be it. Some USB to RS-232 adapters work well and a few have given problems, but I don't think you'll know for sure until you try it.
kriktsemaj99 is online now  
post #96 of 291 Old 01-08-2009, 08:52 AM
Member
 
jon96cobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Send a message via AIM to jon96cobra
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Still no explanation of why the Volume Control program doesn't work on the 1700/2700, but I uploaded a new version (1.03) in post #3 that could be useful for anyone doing their own experiments with the RS-232 protocol.

If you run the program from the command line (or from a shortcut) with the /debug flag, it will open in a larger window and let you send arbitrary RS-232 commands and see the reports returned by the receiver. i.e. if you type "VolumeControl /debug" you will see this:



You can see at the bottom left the standard command 22001 (request main volume as text) was sent, and in the window above it the report returned includes the volume value -14.0dB.

At the bottom right the extended command 034000 was sent (read the current PEQ parameters for band 1 of the centre channel). The reply includes the frequency, Q and gain parameters.

For standard commands you type all the hex digits, and the program adds the initial STX and terminating ETX automatically. For extended commands you type only the data portion (DT0-DTx), and the program automatically adds the complete header (including the length) plus the checksum and terminating ETX.

Make sure you enable "Show bytes received" in order to see the reports from the receiver.

Since the READY command is a special case (it's a command that doesn't start with STX), just type the word READY instead of the hex digits.

For the bytes received, note that STX is shown as "<", ETX as ">", DC1 as "[" and DC4 as "(".

When you tested the volume settings have you run the firmware update off the Yamaha site on your 1700 just curious if they have added the feature in the fix they sent out to allow it to work. Currently I don't have a DVD or CD player to load the firmware to my receiver or I would try it myself.

Jon
XBL Gamertag: jon96cobra
jon96cobra is online now  
post #97 of 291 Old 01-08-2009, 09:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
toby10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,902
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon96cobra View Post

When you tested the volume settings have you run the firmware update off the Yamaha site on your 1700 just curious if they have added the feature in the fix they sent out to allow it to work. Currently I don't have a DVD or CD player to load the firmware to my receiver or I would try it myself.

No. I'm running the latest 2700 FW, no joy.
toby10 is offline  
post #98 of 291 Old 01-08-2009, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 6,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon96cobra View Post

When you tested the volume settings have you run the firmware update off the Yamaha site on your 1700 just curious if they have added the feature in the fix they sent out to allow it to work.

Yamaha support eventually got word from Japan that this feature (displaying an arbitrary text string) is not supported on the Vx700 series. Strange, because it was first documented for the Vx700 series, but their position is it's not a supported feature. At least it works on the 1800/3800 and 1900. But the 3900/Z7 have taken a whole different approach to external control.

For models with a network interface (the 3900/Z7, and presumably most of the new models in the future), it would be great to display all the custom info on a hand held device such as an iPhone or something similar.
kriktsemaj99 is online now  
post #99 of 291 Old 01-08-2009, 11:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
daMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

YPAO will choose up to 7 filter frequencies per channel from the list of supported frequencies. PEQedit gives you full access to the supported frequencies, but I can't change the list and I can't use more than 7 per channel. If all 7 filters are already in use you have to compromise and reuse some of them, but usually a few of the YPAO filters will be doing so little (i.e. they have such small gain values) that you can reuse them to do something else instead. Certainly anything with a gain of +/- 0.5dB could be reused, and even those with +/- 1.0dB if you need to make a more important adjustment elsewhere.

Actually, my issue is that YPAO is only using 2 filters for my subwoofer, not 7. So now I only have the ability to adjust 2 filters to flatten my subwoofer frequency response. Why can't PEQedit allow adding filters to a channel up to the maximum of 7? I understand you can't use more than 7 filters and you can't change the list of available frequencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Do you have the 2400 results written down (frequency, gain and Q)? How different are they? Also did you really use the same mic (because the 6190 mic may be calibrated differently from the 2400 mic). The YPAO algorithm may also have changed, and I don't think the single point YPAO is that good anyway. By several accounts the multi-point YPAO of the 1900/3900/Z7 is quite a bit better.

Ya, I have the 2400 results written down, but don't have the Q values, only frequencies and gains (all that's shown on the 2400's user interface). The two mics are identical. I used the 6190's mic on the 6190 and then the 2400's mic on the 6190 and the results were the same both times.
daMaster is offline  
post #100 of 291 Old 01-08-2009, 12:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
toby10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,902
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

Actually, my issue is that YPAO is only using 2 filters for my subwoofer, not 7. So now I only have the ability to adjust 2 filters to flatten my subwoofer frequency response. Why can't PEQedit allow adding filters to a channel up to the maximum of 7? I understand you can't use more than 7 filters and you can't change the list of available frequencies..............

I'm not a programmer (as krik will laughingly tell you ) but PEQedit is only a way of accessing and altering (via a hack) what Yamaha has built into your AVR. Yamaha has limited the sub adjustments to two filters so PEQedit is limited to those two sub filters.
toby10 is offline  
post #101 of 291 Old 01-08-2009, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 6,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

Actually, my issue is that YPAO is only using 2 filters for my subwoofer, not 7. So now I only have the ability to adjust 2 filters to flatten my subwoofer frequency response. Why can't PEQedit allow adding filters to a channel up to the maximum of 7?

Toby10 is right, two filters in total for the subwoofer is the limit that Yamaha put there (it's the same on the 3800 which, unlike the 1800, does give you manual control of the PEQ through the standard GUI). More filters requires more DSP processing power I suppose, but since there are 7 on all other channels it seems like only two for the sub is a bit mean!

I tend to forget about that because I run a separate equalizer on my sub channel (the cheap and popular Behringer DSP1124P, or BFD). With speakers set to small and all bass redirected to the sub, a single BFD can handle all EQ for the low frequencies, and the 7 Yamaha PEQ filters are plenty for the other channels. A dedicated equalizer like the BDF has many more filters and much finer control over the filter frequency. Like you said, I only wish we could change Yamaha's code to add this to the receiver directly!
kriktsemaj99 is online now  
post #102 of 291 Old 02-26-2009, 09:43 AM
Member
 
LCP1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi Krik, just stumbled on to this thread, looks like something great is going on here... excellent job and effort on your Volume Control and PEQedit programs!!!

Would like to know a few things:

My non-networked HTPC is running on Vista (Ultimate 32, SP1), pretty much a virgin OS, and I intend to leave it that way. Can PEQedit run on my Vista? (Not sure whether the .NET framework 2.0 is built-in for Vista)

Has the volume control been tried on RX-V1900 yet? Looks cool, I sure could do with that.

What's the fastest RS-232 communication rate supported by the Yamaha AVRs, is it still 9600bps? (Specifically the RX-V1900)

Just bought a null modem cable and a male DB-9 port, now need to remove my HTPC (physically as large as my RX-V1900) from between the racks and perform a minor operation to install and connect the port to the motherboard.

Thanks...
LCP1 is offline  
post #103 of 291 Old 02-26-2009, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 6,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCP1 View Post

Hi Krik, just stumbled on to this thread, looks like something great is going on here... excellent job and effort on your Volume Control and PEQedit programs!!!

Thanks, I hope they can be useful to you. I haven't updated those programs for a while as I got side tracked with a different project(*), but I will eventually get back to adding some new features. For your questions:-

The programs should run on Vista, I just didn't get a chance to test them myself. If you have a problem let me know.

Both VolumeControl and PEQedit are known to work on the 1900 (PEQedit had to be modified to work because of changes to the PEQ commands on the 1900, but it's OK now). On the other hand I don't think they will work on the 3900 (unless it supports the old RS-232 protocol in addition to the new one).

The baud rate is fixed at 9600bps, even for the 1900. It's not a big problem for specialized programs that only send a small amount of information, but it means that Receiver Manager is very slow (about 10 minutes to save all your settings). The 3900 network interface is obviously much better, and maybe the 1900 replacement will also support network control.


(*) I don't want to sound too optimistic yet, but I have managed to get my 1800 to accept modified firmware. Now it remains to be seen whether I can fix any of the outstanding issues that Yamaha don't seem to want to fix themselves (especially the clipping of blacker-than-black).
kriktsemaj99 is online now  
post #104 of 291 Old 02-26-2009, 11:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
daMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

The programs should run on Vista, I just didn't get a chance to test them myself. If you have a problem let me know.

They run fine here on my HTPC with Vista.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

(*) I don't want to sound too optimistic yet, but I have managed to get my 1800 to accept modified firmware. Now it remains to be seen whether I can fix any of the outstanding issues that Yamaha don't seem to want to fix themselves (especially the clipping of blacker-than-black).

Sweet, awesome, you rock! How the heck did you compile it? (Perhaps that is best discussed privately by email)
daMaster is offline  
post #105 of 291 Old 02-26-2009, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 6,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 176
Yes, I think discussion of reverse engineering is one of the things barred by the avsforum rules, so I'll say no more. But if anything useful comes out of it I'll let you know.
kriktsemaj99 is online now  
post #106 of 291 Old 02-26-2009, 07:36 PM
Member
 
LCP1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the response. Will try out once I get around to fix the serial cable to my motherboard, it is a hassle to remove my HTPC from where it sits.

On the 9600bps rate, it sorts of remind me of those old days using dumb terminals (eg. VAX), luckily they are text-based, I have forced one to communicate at 38400bps, but random errors still appear everywhere especially on full screen change or refresh.

I have looked at the schematics on the video processing section of both the 1800 and 1900, I think they are the same (at a glance), in fact for the 1900, there is an IC which they put a huge cross over it, saying that it is for the 3800 only, I think that's the GUI overlay. So, technically the BTB/WTW clipping on the 1800 can be resolved, in theory at least, unless there is some hardware component changes, especially resistors and capacitors of different values. I have tried displaying some test patterns from my HTPC via HDMI through my 1900, it definitely passes the BTB/WTW test. Not sure about analog video inputs though.
LCP1 is offline  
post #107 of 291 Old 02-26-2009, 07:39 PM
Member
 
LCP1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

They run fine here on my HTPC with Vista.

Do you need to install any Microsoft .NET framework stuff separately to get it working for the first time?
LCP1 is offline  
post #108 of 291 Old 02-26-2009, 07:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
newfmp3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NFLD, Canada
Posts: 4,033
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Liked: 139
I think I still have the 2700 receiver manager software somewhere if anyone wants it. PM me

I also have the RX-V4800 software which I use all the time.
newfmp3 is online now  
post #109 of 291 Old 03-01-2009, 08:53 AM
Member
 
LCP1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Update, PEQedit and VolumeControl seemed to be able to load and run my Vista. I said "seemed" because something else screwed up, the serial port header cable to connect from my Gigabyte motherboard to a DB-9 male connector on the PC chassis seemed to have a different config from what my motherboard intended it to be, so, my RS-232C connection is not working yet, Receiver Manager cannot establish connection. Now, hopefully I have not damaged my 1900's RS-232 port from the incorrect config. (The service manual mentioned a RS-232 diagnostic test which requires a blank DB-9 female connector with certain pins shorted, hopefully I don't need to do this test.)

Will work around this, either get a proper Gigabyte serial port header cable (unfortunately this will not be easy where I live) or resolder the PC end of the null modem cable DB-9 connector to match the "screwed up" config, meaning that my null modem cable will only work on my set up, and the resoldered DB-9 female connector can only be connected to my PC.
LCP1 is offline  
post #110 of 291 Old 03-03-2009, 07:48 AM
Member
 
blakrj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dallas
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
don't want to take this off topic, but was wondering if anyone here could help out with an RS232 command for the RX-V2700. I have an MSC-400 and most commands seem to work, except for power on. I am trying to work out what the 'ready' command (STX and ETX) commands are in ASCII. The MSC-400 has the power on command as \\x0207E7E\\x03 is the \\x02 STX and \\x03 ETX?
blakrj is offline  
post #111 of 291 Old 03-03-2009, 08:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
daMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCP1 View Post

Update, PEQedit and VolumeControl seemed to be able to load and run my Vista. I said "seemed" because something else screwed up, the serial port header cable to connect from my Gigabyte motherboard to a DB-9 male connector on the PC chassis seemed to have a different config from what my motherboard intended it to be, so, my RS-232C connection is not working yet, Receiver Manager cannot establish connection. Now, hopefully I have not damaged my 1900's RS-232 port from the incorrect config. (The service manual mentioned a RS-232 diagnostic test which requires a blank DB-9 female connector with certain pins shorted, hopefully I don't need to do this test.)

Will work around this, either get a proper Gigabyte serial port header cable (unfortunately this will not be easy where I live) or resolder the PC end of the null modem cable DB-9 connector to match the "screwed up" config, meaning that my null modem cable will only work on my set up, and the resoldered DB-9 female connector can only be connected to my PC.

I have a Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H motherboard and was also concerned about getting the right serial connector because the pin assignments seemed different in the motherboard's manual. Turns out I went to a few local PC shops and one of them sold me a typical RS232 connector for $5 and it worked perfectly fine.

Until I found that I was going to get an Asus DB9/RS232 connector because I had read those were compatible with the Gigabyte boards. You could try searching ebay for that.
daMaster is offline  
post #112 of 291 Old 03-03-2009, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 6,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakrj View Post

I have an MSC-400 and most commands seem to work, except for power on. I am trying to work out what the 'ready' command (STX and ETX) commands are in ASCII. The MSC-400 has the power on command as \\x0207E7E\\x03 is the \\x02 STX and \\x03 ETX?

Yes, \\x02 is STX (ASCII code 2, meaning the actual value 2 and not the character "2"), and \\x03 is ETX (ASCII code 3).

But whoever programmed the MSC-400 already knew that as they got the other commands working. Maybe what they missed is that the power on command has to be sent twice in quick succession in order to work. I found this by tracing the commands used by Receiver Manager. Sending the power on command just once will not turn on the power. Strange that Yamaha didn't document that. So if the MSC-400 allows you put more than one STX/ETX pair in a single command, try redefining power on as,

\\x0207E7E\\x03\\x0207E7E\\x03
kriktsemaj99 is online now  
post #113 of 291 Old 03-04-2009, 01:36 AM
Member
 
blakrj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dallas
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Yes, \\x02 is STX (ASCII code 2, meaning the actual value 2 and not the character "2"), and \\x03 is ETX (ASCII code 3).

But whoever programmed the MSC-400 already knew that as they got the other commands working. Maybe what they missed is that the power on command has to be sent twice in quick succession in order to work. I found this by tracing the commands used by Receiver Manager. Sending the power on command just once will not turn on the power. Strange that Yamaha didn't document that. So if the MSC-400 allows you put more than one STX/ETX pair in a single command, try redefining power on as,

\\x0207E7E\\x03\\x0207E7E\\x03

Many thanks for this. I gave it a quick try (I can enter the full string) but still no joy. I'll try some other options later today (sending the same command as two separate commands, etc.)...failing which, I guess I'll be using a combination of IR & RS232.
blakrj is offline  
post #114 of 291 Old 03-04-2009, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 6,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by blakrj View Post

Many thanks for this. I gave it a quick try (I can enter the full string) but still no joy. I'll try some other options later today (sending the same command as two separate commands, etc.)...failing which, I guess I'll be using a combination of IR & RS232.

Have you ever used the Receiver Manager application? The first thing it does is turn on the power, so if that works for you at least you know it's possible. You can trace the commands being sent by Receiver Manager by installing Portmon on your PC (a free utility to record all serial port activity), but I'm sure it will send the same commands as it does on my 1800.

The other thing to check (in Advanced Setup) is whether the RS-232 port is enabled in standby mode. By default it's supposed to be enabled on North American models and disabled on other models, but it's worth checking. If WAKE ON RS232C is set to NO, I expect the power on command will be ignored.
kriktsemaj99 is online now  
post #115 of 291 Old 03-04-2009, 08:14 AM
Member
 
LCP1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

I have a Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H motherboard and was also concerned about getting the right serial connector because the pin assignments seemed different in the motherboard's manual. Turns out I went to a few local PC shops and one of them sold me a typical RS232 connector for $5 and it worked perfectly fine.

Until I found that I was going to get an Asus DB9/RS232 connector because I had read those were compatible with the Gigabyte boards. You could try searching ebay for that.

Mine's GA-EG45M-DS2H, the user manual states the pinout on the header as this:

9 7 5 3 1
* 8 6 4 2

but the DB-9 connector that I got expected this (as a direct correlation to the DB-9 pinout):

5 4 3 2 1
* 9 8 7 6

where * is the missing pin 10 as the key to prevent accidental reverse plug in.

Will try to look out for the Asus/Gigabyte RS-232 header cable, else have to resort to modifying my null modem cable, which is the quickest way out but the cable cannot be used elsewhere already.
LCP1 is offline  
post #116 of 291 Old 03-04-2009, 08:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
daMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCP1 View Post

Mine's GA-EG45M-DS2H, the user manual states the pinout on the header as this:

9 7 5 3 1
* 8 6 4 2

but the DB-9 connector that I got expected this (as a direct correlation to the DB-9 pinout):

5 4 3 2 1
* 9 8 7 6

where * is the missing pin 10 as the key to prevent accidental reverse plug in.

Will try to look out for the Asus/Gigabyte RS-232 header cable, else have to resort to modifying my null modem cable, which is the quickest way out but the cable cannot be used elsewhere already.

This is what you need: http://cgi.ebay.com/9-Pin-Serial-Por...3%3A1|294%3A25
daMaster is offline  
post #117 of 291 Old 03-04-2009, 04:33 PM
Member
 
blakrj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dallas
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Have you ever used the Receiver Manager application? The first thing it does is turn on the power, so if that works for you at least you know it's possible. You can trace the commands being sent by Receiver Manager by installing Portmon on your PC (a free utility to record all serial port activity), but I'm sure it will send the same commands as it does on my 1800.

The other thing to check (in Advanced Setup) is whether the RS-232 port is enabled in standby mode. By default it's supposed to be enabled on North American models and disabled on other models, but it's worth checking. If WAKE ON RS232C is set to NO, I expect the power on command will be ignored.

wow - thanks for the tips. I have the 'general' model purchased in Hong Kong (due to my moving around and its 110/240V power supply); so I'm guessing that the WAKE ON RS232C is set to NO as you point out. I'll give it a check, as all other attempts have failed. Didn't think about using portmon (despite having it tucked away somewhere, duh). As an aside, I did use the IR in on the amp from the MSC and this works; so I have a working setup, although I'd be happier with just the one feed. Thanks again for all your help.
blakrj is offline  
post #118 of 291 Old 03-05-2009, 08:59 PM
Member
 
LCP1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

This is what you need: http://cgi.ebay.com/9-Pin-Serial-Por...3%3A1|294%3A25

Resolved my serial port problem... Went searching for the header/bracket and found one in an old unsold pile of stuff in one of the shops. This time I was more careful (maybe paranoid?), I brought my multimeter along to test the pinouts. The one I found actually has a DB-9 and a DB25 male connectors on the bracket, meant for older PCs with two COM ports, but the condition of the metal bracket is still good and without any sign of rust. The shop charged me an equivalent of US$1.35 only for that bracket.

Fixed up the bracket and connected the null modem cable. Receiver Manager is now working, so are PEQedit and VolumeControl. Will explore more when I have time, cool little programs from krik, thanks!!!
LCP1 is offline  
post #119 of 291 Old 03-08-2009, 11:22 AM
Member
 
LCP1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi Krik, on the PEQedit, the 1900 has three sets of PEQ type (Flat, Front and Natural), and more on the 3800/3900/Z7, and if I understand correctly, after playing with PEQedit on my 1900 over the last two days, when doing a download to the AVR, it will only download to the PEQ type that was selected.

So, if that PEQ type is not the active one on the AVR, if there is a change in the settings, there won't be any audible difference upon download, right? (Correct me if I'm wrong.) In my case, it is a hassle to change the active PEQ type on my 1900 as it will entail me losing both the video (PEQedit running on my HTPC) and audio (via HDMI too) due to the way the menu works on the 1900. Is there any way to add a feature or a button to set the selected PEQ type in PEQedit as the active one on the AVR?

Btw, if I set the report delay to 0msec, the uploads and downloads are so much faster, I think in less than 3 secs, cool. Does the 1800/1900/3800 RS-232 interface still work if we force it to 19200bps (spec is officially at 9600bps only), anyone tried before? Any speed up in the RS-232 link will have a significant impact on all upload/download times.
LCP1 is offline  
post #120 of 291 Old 03-08-2009, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
kriktsemaj99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 6,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCP1 View Post

Hi Krik, on the PEQedit, the 1900 has three sets of PEQ type (Flat, Front and Natural), and ... when doing a download to the AVR, it will only download to the PEQ type that was selected.

Correct. PEQedit uploads or downloads the type that you selected from the drop-down list. (But note that when you start PEQedit it does not correctly display the type that's currently active in the receiver, you need to manually select the type you want to work with.)
Quote:


So, if that PEQ type is not the active one on the AVR, if there is a change in the settings, there won't be any audible difference upon download, right? (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

After downloading the type you specified, PEQedit does make it the active type, and if EQ was off (or set to GEQ), Auto PEQ will be turned on and the correct type selected. That's the way it's supposed to work and it was verified by someone else using a 1900. If you do bring up the receiver's GUI you should see that it changed. To easily hear the difference you could make a really exaggerated change (e.g. kill the bass in the left front speaker and kill the high frequencies in the right front, then compare them using test tones).

For the speed, as far as I know Yamaha requires 9600 baud. I didn't try anything faster but I wouldn't expect it to work.
kriktsemaj99 is online now  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off