The "Official" Onkyo TX-SR876 Owners Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 5107 Old 11-29-2008, 04:50 PM
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Certain dark scenes I've noticed a difference, in when one can and cannot display blacker than black. Then again, may be all in my mind... heh

Off subject - The worst issues I had with black scenes were certain DVD players. I think the Denon 1910 (?) would macroblock noticeably in dark scenes. Oppo 981 did that a bit, though it was less noticeable than the Denon 1910.

Back on subject - It's interesting to hear that a lack of blacker than black should not interfere with calibration. I've had my set claibrated by an ISF tech a few times, however this receiver is new to mix, and before I have a recalibration, this 806 concerns me.

I've not yet heard a reply from him concerning my concerns, and I'm eager to hear if the 876 ot 906 also clip black.
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post #362 of 5107 Old 11-29-2008, 05:17 PM
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Yeah it is all in your mind. The only difference is where you have the brightness setting which adjust black level. The reason, and the only reason you need blacker than black is it's a little easier to set the level correctly using avia or video essentials. That's all. There is no bllacker than black , period in video content, again which is why it's called BLACKER than black.

Anyway using new video essentials and avia I do see the blacker bar using the test pattern via a ps3. What you do is lower your brightness until you can't see the black bar(it's blacker than black) , get it so you CAN'T see it. Because you're not supposed to lol. So wanting a reciever that will do it or not doesn't make for a lot of sense. I typically find the correct setting to be to dark anyway.

But long story short the onkyo 876 appears to pass blacker than black. At least on dvd, this wasn't testing using blu ray. And to say it clips black is inaccurate, blacker than black isn't in a video signal so it isn't there usually to be clipped. Only test pattern used for calibration is there ever a blacker than black signal.

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post #363 of 5107 Old 11-29-2008, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtv00 View Post

But long story short the onkyo 876 appears to pass blacker than black. At least on dvd, this wasn't testing using blu ray. And to say it clips black is inaccurate, blacker than black isn't in a video signal so it isn't there usually to be clipped. Only test pattern used for calibration is there ever a blacker than black signal.

Thank you!

Based on that, I assume the 906 is similar.

Also going to the 876 from the 806 would give me HD radio and MultiEQ XT, which the 876 has over the 806. That's nice, I only recently was exposed to HD radio, and it's decent. I use my AV receivers for radio (Usually news), audio, and video. Other benefits to it, besides blacker than black.

I'll hold onto my 806 for a while, I'll see if the ISF tech I e-mailed concerning my "Blacker than black" concern also finds my worry silly.

Early next year, the 806 will be moved somewhere from my primary display, to elsewhere in the house, or to another owner/buyer. By then the 876 should be a bit less in price, and probably also more refurbished units.

Lesson learnt, to try before I buy, or wait for in depth reviews. Not to be too eager to buy new receiver I intend to keep for many years (At the very least, 5 years) if I plan out piping video through it, as it may have a quirk I may not like, whether imaginary or not.


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post #364 of 5107 Old 11-29-2008, 08:48 PM
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No need to wait to be told, here have a look for yourself.

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/ca...vels-xvycc-rgb

"In order to see Blacker-than-Black test patterns, you'll need one of the discs below which will give you the ability to calibrate your display or projector to the correct levels. Remember, the proper level is such that the below black information, while present in the system, is NOT visible. TYhis means that you will want to make sure that the Below Black information comes through by cranking up your Brightness (black Level) until you see the below black pattern, and then decreasing Brightness until it is completely hidden, but leaves the next brightest pattern or line barely visible"

Look over that link though it explain's everything really. For awhile I was thinking maybe you were referring to deep color, but you kept talking like you really did mean just plain blacker than black which again means absolutely nothing really, unless you're looking at a test pattern.

Ps. why didn't you go with a onkyo 805 better reciever hehe.

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post #365 of 5107 Old 11-29-2008, 09:17 PM
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I had an Onkyo 606, however it produced a "hummm" sound. Not a minor one, but a, "Something is wrong" type of hum. My other 606 didn't do that, so that led me to being certain somethign was wrong with one of the receivers. A search online, and probably also here, led me to others who experienced the same issue on their 606, and what I gathered was with the 606 it was sometimes, "luck of the draw". I was still in the return period for the humming 606, so I returned it, and paid the difference for an 806. No more humm!.

I did not go for the 805, as I was interested in the Dynamic EQ options. Though it did take a hit with losing internal "stuff" (weight), and MultiEQ XT. I figured, I would go with new. Also, I was trading in anyway, and had to go with what the store had in stock. They were all new models, except for the 875 and 905.

The 806; other than the blacker than black issue, and losing a few options, I have no complaints. It sounds good.



Now, next year, i may sell the 806, or I may sell the 606, and move the 806 to where the 606 currently is located. Either way, the 876 or 906 will be on the rack early next year.

---

I am familiar with where to see blacker than black test patterns, I keep DVE around. That was how I confirmed it for my setup, I loaded DVE, and sure enough, the pluge was lacking a bar on each side. After that, I was disapointed that the 806 was interferring with video when I asked it to put it "through".


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post #366 of 5107 Old 11-29-2008, 10:08 PM
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It wasn't so much the where to see the pattern for blacker than black, it was the clear comment in don't get caught up in the blacker than black and what it means part I was leaning your toward lol.

Hey you sure it isn't your dvd player not passing blacker than black. I never have poked my head into their 806 thread as it was a weaker model compared to the 805, that lol weight actually means something you know , they just didnt line the thing with lead. Why does every 806 owner act like that's the case when in fact it just has a better amp section. But I hear ya on return you had to go with what they had in stock. And really it's fairly clear that 2 hdmi inputs at this point wouldn't cut it.

I picked up my onkyo for so I don't think they'll be any better deals down the road. So I jumped at the chance to move up. I had a onkyo 898 from 6 years ago still. I'm still adjusting to all these new features. Kinda insane really. Heck later I'll even check the hd dvd for blacker than black might as well run that now that I have full HDMI setup now.

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post #367 of 5107 Old 11-29-2008, 10:37 PM
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Yeah, I went with stock on hand. I knew ahead of time the 805 had hardware advantages, but I felt the 806 was better than the 606. I knew the 876 and 906 were upcoming, but I couldn't wait, and I thought the 806 would be enough. In many ways it was, the new technology is pretty nice.

I currently use an Oppo 983 DVD player. It passes below black. It's a decent player, no issues with it so far. I have a lot of DVD's, so I figured this would be good as a final DVD player. I think I've gone through 7 different DVD players over the years (3 of them, Oppo). Some became hand me downs to family, or other televisions in the house, others were sold. Part of the reason for so many is I'd usually have a superior DVD player for region 1, and another so-so ($100.00 or so. Remember, this was years ago, no such thing as $30 regionless players at that time) for regionless. Oppo cured that need for 2 players.

The basics of my setup with the 806, on the video side:

Toshiba 57HX94 - ISF calibrated every 18 months or so.
Magnavox NB500MG9 Blu-ray player
JVC HR-S5902U SVHS VCR
Oppo 983 DVD Player
Onkyo SR806 Receiver


$853.00 is a good deal for the 876, I didn't notice it that cheap, new, anyplace. Currently, I have no choice but to wait 'til next year. I saw someplace online had the 876 for $900 with a coupon code this Friday, however, I was not yet ready to purchase anythign yet. I have to wait until early next year. By then, I'm sure I'll be able to find one for AT LEAST $900.00.

Thanks for the link to the article. I understand "blacker than black", however I still prefer video to pass through un-altered. That's what bothers me, when I set the Onkyo 806 to pass HDMI video "THROUGH", and it still alters it. Yuck.

.
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post #368 of 5107 Old 11-29-2008, 11:26 PM
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Great info on Blacker than black
where did you buy your 876?
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post #369 of 5107 Old 11-30-2008, 02:16 AM
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From onkyo's website.

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post #370 of 5107 Old 11-30-2008, 11:18 PM
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If I have Loudness Plus set to "On" in the setup menu, then activating the "L Night" button on the remote is a bad idea when using a THX listening mode, right?
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post #371 of 5107 Old 12-02-2008, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post


Temperature
On the front panel. press 'DISPLAY and 'Standby' + 'Tone' to display
T: 47/ 43FAN:-
V: 0.00 SEC:H
not sure about the meaning, but seems like 47 is the temperature in celsius, I have seen 53 also.
If there is a '-' after FAN:, the fan(s) are not engaged, possible values are L(ow), M(edium) and H(igh).


This doesn't work for me.

But my main firmware is different: 1.01/088018A
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post #372 of 5107 Old 12-02-2008, 05:44 AM
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Hello to all,

i need your help. I have the ONKYO 876 and a PANASONIC TH50 Plasma and a problem with my remote. When plasma and onkyo are connected over HDMI, the remote works very bad. If i stay on a key on the remote, the LED at the front of the onkyo only flashes a little bit. If i want to change the volume of the onkyo, i had to press the key on the remote at least 30 seconds to change it from -20dB to -60dB.

When i disconnect the both devices the LED burns and i am able to change the volume in a very fast way (like it should be)

Onkyo say, i should turn off the VIERA-Link, but this do not help!!!

So by disconnecting the devices or by simple turning off the plasma the remote works fine.
I have tried different things: changing the remote, buying a remote eye and connecting this device to the "IR in" at the back of the onkyo. But nothing helps!

Has anybody an idea? I am very frustrated.....

Greetings from Germany
Klaus
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post #373 of 5107 Old 12-02-2008, 12:35 PM
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You use the tone < and > buttons, not the tone button itself.
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post #374 of 5107 Old 12-02-2008, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post

This doesn't work for me.

But my main firmware is different: 1.01/088018A

Try again: press down 'Display' and keep it pressed down while
pressing 'Standby', release both buttons and then press 'Tone'.

For the firmware versions: press down 'Display' and keep it pressed down while
pressing 'Standby', release both buttons and then press '>' to cycle through
the firmwares.
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post #375 of 5107 Old 12-02-2008, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Try again: press down 'Display' and keep it pressed down while
pressing 'Standby', release both buttons and then press 'Tone'.

For the firmware versions: press down 'Display' and keep it pressed down while
pressing 'Standby', release both buttons and then press '>' to cycle through
the firmwares.

Thank you! That did work for temp. I wasn't aware I had to release the buttons before pressing tone.


1.01/088018 Main
SR9061 08611A DSP1
SR9062 08605C DSP2
SR9063 08506A DSP3
1.00/08627A HDMI
08703E01293 Video

Also had version 1.00 for both XM and Sirius
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post #376 of 5107 Old 12-02-2008, 03:16 PM
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I'm mainly interested in the video processing and was wondering if the Reon-VX HQV does a good job with SD content over satellite Dish network. All signals come in over HDMI cable but many channels are still SD 4x3 format.
If the SR876 does make SD viewing more enjoyable it's the receiver for me. If not I'll look at some lower priced units without the HQV.
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post #377 of 5107 Old 12-02-2008, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archer101 View Post

I'm mainly interested in the video processing and was wondering if the Reon-VX HQV does a good job with SD content over satellite Dish network. All signals come in over HDMI cable but many channels are still SD 4x3 format.
If the SR876 does make SD viewing more enjoyable it's the receiver for me. If not I'll look at some lower priced units without the HQV.

This was also a critical decision point for me. If I didn't need HQV then I would have just bought a 606. I took the plunge and bought the 876.

Once I figured out how to resolve some of the aspect ratio issues (see the 906 thread for these issues) I can say I am very happy with the SD video processing from the Reon. It is noticeably superior to the scaler in my Sony KDS-60A3000.

egg
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post #378 of 5107 Old 12-02-2008, 09:04 PM
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I know that I've mentioned this in one or both of the 876/906 threads before, but here goes again.

Is anyone having any issues with THX Cinema or Loudness Plus. I understand that Loudness Plus will boost frequencies to compensate for lost dynamics at volumes lower than reference level. But, it is supposed to be inactive (or gradually so) at/near that level (for those not sure, reference = 0).

My problem is that it does weird things to my system well before ref level. For example, when watching a blu-ray with heavy effects (explosions, etc. with lots of low end), I cannot use "THX Cinema". Around -10 or so, I get a nasty, muddy distortion from the subs, especially the smaller one (running an 8" and 10" powered sub with an RCA splitter from the LFE output).

I do NOT have this issue when using "Direct", and it sounds great. I just don't think that I should have the issue when using the THX mode, and wondered if anyone else has tested/will test.


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post #379 of 5107 Old 12-02-2008, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webslinger View Post

If I have Loudness Plus set to "On" in the setup menu, then activating the "L Night" button on the remote is a bad idea when using a THX listening mode, right?

I don't think it should be a problem.

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post #380 of 5107 Old 12-02-2008, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronman79 View Post

I don't think it should be a problem.

Isn't THX Loudness a form of frequency shaping? Then by using the late night button, aren't I adding compression on top of that? Or am I not understanding something?
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post #381 of 5107 Old 12-02-2008, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eggman51 View Post

This was also a critical decision point for me. If I didn't need HQV then I would have just bought a 606. I took the plunge and bought the 876.

Once I figured out how to resolve some of the aspect ratio issues (see the 906 thread for these issues) I can say I am very happy with the SD video processing from the Reon. It is noticeably superior to the scaler in my Sony KDS-60A3000.

egg

Thanks for the reply, I took the plunge and have mine ordered. I'll check the 906 thread for more information also.
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post #382 of 5107 Old 12-03-2008, 05:53 AM
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I finally bit the bullit a few weeks ago and got myself the 876. I have been watching some HD DVD and BD movies and i have to say i am little bit disappointed... From reading all the comments from the 805, 875, 806 till 876 my hopes were probably set a bit too high. I found that my old receiver, a Harmann/Kardon AVR4500, sounded more balanced.

I had the audissey do the calibration, but compared to the H/K the 876 sounds very "back-heavy", meaning that the sound is very loud from the back, where as the front speakers are then somewhat quieter. The only difference i have noticed is that the bass is improved compared to the H/K, and that's nice.

I've also used my ATV and i'm not sure if i have the right settings for that one, as i see no improvement to the PQ. Maybe i'm doing here something wrong. Haven't tried out any SD-DVD's, as it is really hard to go back to SD after having used HD...

The 876 does get very hot in the back, too hot to touch IMO. Do i regret that i bought it? I don't know yet, i am sure there is still some things to tweak to get it right. But i am definitely not blown away and amazed about it.

We'll see what time will bring, maybe i shouldn't put the H/K yet in the basement....
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post #383 of 5107 Old 12-03-2008, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredsterB View Post

I finally bit the bullit a few weeks ago and got myself the 876. I have been watching some HD DVD and BD movies and i have to say i am little bit disappointed... From reading all the comments from the 805, 875, 806 till 876 my hopes were probably set a bit too high. I found that my old receiver, a Harmann/Kardon AVR4500, sounded more balanced.

I had the audissey do the calibration, but compared to the H/K the 876 sounds very "back-heavy", meaning that the sound is very loud from the back, where as the front speakers are then somewhat quieter. The only difference i have noticed is that the bass is improved compared to the H/K, and that's nice.

I've also used my ATV and i'm not sure if i have the right settings for that one, as i see no improvement to the PQ. Maybe i'm doing here something wrong. Haven't tried out any SD-DVD's, as it is really hard to go back to SD after having used HD...

The 876 does get very hot in the back, too hot to touch IMO. Do i regret that i bought it? I don't know yet, i am sure there is still some things to tweak to get it right. But i am definitely not blown away and amazed about it.

We'll see what time will bring, maybe i shouldn't put the H/K yet in the basement....

i seems it is a hit or total miss with this receiver, all of these post are stopping me from making any purchase at all. its either sony 3400 or onkoy 806 i cant decied.
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post #384 of 5107 Old 12-03-2008, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronman79 View Post

Is anyone having any issues with THX Cinema or Loudness Plus. ...
My problem is that it does weird things to my system well before ref level. For example, when watching a blu-ray with heavy effects (explosions, etc. with lots of low end), I cannot use "THX Cinema". Around -10 or so, I get a nasty, muddy distortion from the subs, especially the smaller one (running an 8" and 10" powered sub with an RCA splitter from the LFE output).

I do NOT have this issue when using "Direct", and it sounds great. I just don't think that I should have the issue when using the THX mode...

I suspect that what you describe is the result of a bad combination of room interaction, the program mix in the LFE channel, the crossover value used and whatever Dynamic compensation is in use.

I've encountered the same problem when trying to use Audyssey Dynamic EQ/Dynamic Vol in Prologic II Movie mode with DD5.1 material and when using THX Cinema/Loudness Plus, but the manifestations were different.

Listening at a volume setting of -20 to -15dB, with the Audyessy suite engaged, there were occasional "gloop" sounds from the sub and I could see the cone moving to the limit.

Using THX Cinema/Loudness Plus there were no "gloops" but the low bass was unevenly pumped too high for my taste.


Other business has prevented me from exploring this, but I did check the speaker settings and the sub was shown as being at half the correct distance, while the largest error on any other speaker was <1 foot.

That makes me wonder if there is a null at some critical measurement frequency. If the program material is rich in the vicinity of the null frequency, there could be a huge degree of boost (much like setting the trim to +12dB) in an attempt to compensate.

With no dynamic compensation engaged, just Audyssey MultEQ XT, the sound is so much improved over the previous setup that I am not unhappy. If the Dynamic modes were trouble free I would be happier.

I would like to resolve the issues with dynamic modes, but I suspect that it require more time than I can give it at the moment--I haven't had time to search the Audyessy thread, nor to re-position the sub and re-run setup or to try changing the crossover points for the mains.

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post #385 of 5107 Old 12-03-2008, 03:22 PM
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Are there any known menu shortcuts for the setup menu? I want to get into the Source Setup, Picture Adjust, Zoom Mode quickly for example (has to do with programming with a universal remote and switching between 4:3 sources and 16:9).
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post #386 of 5107 Old 12-03-2008, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osofast240sx View Post

i seems it is a hit or total miss with this receiver, all of these post are stopping me from making any purchase at all. its either sony 3400 or onkoy 806 i cant decied.

You know, it's just the nature of sophisticated electronics. Your comment, and MY experience show this. I had last years top of the line Sony 5300ES, and I had many problems with the upconversion and firmware implementation! Sony's customer service was great; they overnighted me a brand new unit, three different times. But, they never got things right, so, I went with the 876.

Now, do I think everything is perfect on this beast...no. But, I'm very happy with it, and some of the things are just adjustments. Overall, I love it! But, there's not one unit out there that does EVERYTHING perfectly, or to everyone's expectations. It's just the way it is.


Ronman

I feel thin...sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread. I need a holiday...a very long holiday. - Bilbo B.
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post #387 of 5107 Old 12-03-2008, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by trekguy View Post

I suspect that what you describe is the result of a bad combination of room interaction, the program mix in the LFE channel, the crossover value used and whatever Dynamic compensation is in use.

I've encountered the same problem when trying to use Audyssey Dynamic EQ/Dynamic Vol in Prologic II Movie mode with DD5.1 material and when using THX Cinema/Loudness Plus, but the manifestations were different.

Listening at a volume setting of -20 to -15dB, with the Audyessy suite engaged, there were occasional "gloop" sounds from the sub and I could see the cone moving to the limit.

Using THX Cinema/Loudness Plus there were no "gloops" but the low bass was unevenly pumped too high for my taste.


Other business has prevented me from exploring this, but I did check the speaker settings and the sub was shown as being at half the correct distance, while the largest error on any other speaker was <1 foot.

That makes me wonder if there is a null at some critical measurement frequency. If the program material is rich in the vicinity of the null frequency, there could be a huge degree of boost (much like setting the trim to +12dB) in an attempt to compensate.

With no dynamic compensation engaged, just Audyssey MultEQ XT, the sound is so much improved over the previous setup that I am not unhappy. If the Dynamic modes were trouble free I would be happier.

I would like to resolve the issues with dynamic modes, but I suspect that it require more time than I can give it at the moment--I haven't had time to search the Audyessy thread, nor to re-position the sub and re-run setup or to try changing the crossover points for the mains.


I have played around with the sub/main crossover settings, and, if I remember correctly, the other night I also tried different Audyssey combos (taking it down to just MultEQ XT, and such). But, I seem to always get that nasty sound, from the small sub especially, with loud, low bass action scenes, while using THX CINEMA. It's not a major issue to me, because I like "direct" at that listening level (reference level) anyway. And, at lower levels, even with THX mode, it's not pronounced. Like you Trek, I just want it to NOT do that...ha!

I feel thin...sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread. I need a holiday...a very long holiday. - Bilbo B.
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post #388 of 5107 Old 12-03-2008, 06:40 PM
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It does that simply becuase it can't handle it, I mean jesus at reference level on a small wanna be sub. Turn down the sub level to a level that doesn't make it do it. Read the Audyssey thread, there can be many reason's a sub isn't set perfect by just using the audyssey setup alone. That little sub is folding under, that doesn't mean the onkyo is to blame. It's your volume level and the subs performance limit that's the culprit.

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post #389 of 5107 Old 12-03-2008, 07:19 PM
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Are there any known menu shortcuts for the setup menu? I want to get into the Source Setup, Picture Adjust, Zoom Mode quickly for example (has to do with programming with a universal remote and switching between 4:3 sources and 16:9).

Nope.... This has been one of the biggest complaints on both the 906 and 876. They even advertised that zoom would come up by press and holding one of the remote buttons but it did not work. One of the guys stated that Onkyo was clueless about the problem. Joerod said they were working on it, but not to expect a firmware update for quite some time. Sheesh......... Onkyo
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post #390 of 5107 Old 12-03-2008, 07:40 PM
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Nope.... This has been one of the biggest complaints on both the 906 and 876. They even advertised that zoom would come up by press and holding one of the remote buttons but it did not work. One of the guys stated that Onkyo was clueless about the problem. Joerod said they were working on it, but not to expect a firmware update for quite some time. Sheesh......... Onkyo

Does Joerod work for Onkyo?

I had to create 3 sequence buttons for my Harmony remote just to address this. Rather annoying . . .

Otherwise, I love this receiver (well, I wish there were a set of 7.1 standard analog outputs that weren't affected by the volume button).
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