Is Audyssey Dynamic EQ worth it? - AVS Forum
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Old 09-30-2008, 12:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, I've been listening to people talk about the difference Dynamic EQ makes and I can also see how much more those with Dynamic EQ cost compared with their counterparts even despite differences in power (i.e. Denon 988 vs. 789). I can get a Denon now for cheap without Dynamic EQ, but is it worth the hundreds extra dollars to get this feature. I can understand it's an improvement, but is it that big an improvement? I don't want to spend extra money on something I may not even hear the difference with. Thanks.
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Old 09-30-2008, 12:56 AM
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I might be able to answer that in couple days. I am upgrading my Denon 3808 to the new features with dyanamic volume etc..I am sure you will hear from lots of Denon Owners who initially had 3808 without these features.

However darker the clouds might be, Never give up;there's always a ray of hope.
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Old 09-30-2008, 01:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, hopefully I'll get to see what you converts think. My main dilemma is the 888 vs. 889. The 888 costs $375 at Amazon while the the 889 is on sale at CC for $499 before tax. Tax is probably about another $40 so that's about a $160-170 difference. Obviously the 889 also has HD audio decoding though I have a PS3 that can do that so it's no biggie. Extra HDMI's are a plus but not a necessity. At this point the main question is if I want to spend that extra money solely for Dynamic EQ. I probably don't blast music and movies to full volume all the time so having better lower volume sound quality seems appealing.
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:37 AM
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Though I keep reading great things, I can't speak for Audessey personally. Yamaha's YPAO seems to do a pretty good job with auto calibration. I would say either 'set-it-and-forget-it' feature is worth the money for the average Joe who doesn't manually calibrate with an SPL meter.

-Ex
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:38 AM
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YPAO also tells you if you wired your speakers out of phase accidentally

-Ex
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:50 AM
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YPAO often tells you that you are wired out of phase when you are not wired out of phase. A firmware update seems to have reduced that issue though.

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Old 09-30-2008, 03:39 PM
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So any users of the dynamic eq care to comment?
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Old 09-30-2008, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcdo View Post

Hi, I've been listening to people talk about the difference Dynamic EQ makes and I can also see how much more those with Dynamic EQ cost compared with their counterparts even despite differences in power (i.e. Denon 988 vs. 789). I can get a Denon now for cheap without Dynamic EQ, but is it worth the hundreds extra dollars to get this feature. I can understand it's an improvement, but is it that big an improvement? I don't want to spend extra money on something I may not even hear the difference with. Thanks.


Dynamic EQ would be worthwhile if you watch movies etc at a lower volume a fair bit. It is designed to compensate for those lower volumes with EQ based on the Audyssey measurements rather than how a "loudness" button just boosts the bass. It works quite well, I have it my AVP, plus it "disappears" when you crank it up. I can see this as a big benefit for someone in an apartment.

More importantly though is that the newer Denons also throw "Dynamic Volume" into the mix. I don't know about the rest of you guys but when I watch TV through my system it drives me nuts how loud the commercials are compared to the program. Dynamic Volume will stop you from having to reach for the remote by creating a consistent volume output regardless of the input signal. To me, that's easily worth $100.00.

The "base" Audyssey is also relevant, with each level having higher resolution and resources for the bass than the other. MutlEQ "XT" is the best and in my opinion also worth the $$ if you're close to the price range that it's in. But it wouldn't be worth going from a $500 receiver to a $1500 one for instance.
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Old 09-30-2008, 04:24 PM
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I think that Dynamic Eq is great. It really brings out lower frequency dynamics while listening at levels that lots of us with wives, kids and grandkids are forced to listen at. I have the Denon AVP A1HD.

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Old 09-30-2008, 06:53 PM
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Anyone know if it adjusts for the absolute loudness of a source?

For example, we all know that DVDs are mastered softer than CDs. So just to throw out some numbers, if to get the same apparent volume in my room is -40 dB for a CD but -25 dB for a movie, does dynamic EQ take that difference into account? In that particular case, the eq applied to each should be about the same (same apparent volume in my room, remember), but the volume knob numbers are extremely different. ??

In other words, whatever the software is doing *must* look at the volume of the source, and not just blindly apply eq based on the volume knob setting of the SSP/AVR.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

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Old 09-30-2008, 07:25 PM
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I personally don't like DynamicEQ. I"ve been testing a refurb Onkyo 506 I ordered for my parents before I permanently install it at their house. It's a neat effect at first, but it became tiresome relatively quickly due to the over (IMO) boosted low end. Suddenly everything sounds like [insert favorite bass demo scene] while watching at "kid's in bed" levels (system in center of house)...sitcoms, sports, commercials, MusicChannel, you name it. I'll give Audyssey credit, the bass to lower midrange is still defined, never becoming one note boomy at all as sometimes happens with generic loudness functions. Wife never said a word, but I turned DEQ off for good after about 3 days of use. As with most things, YMMV due to different tastes.

-Brent
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Old 09-30-2008, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riverwolf View Post

I personally don't like DynamicEQ. I"ve been testing a refurb Onkyo 506 I ordered for my parents before I permanently install it at their house. It's a neat effect at first, but it became tiresome relatively quickly due to the over (IMO) boosted low end. Suddenly everything sounds like [insert favorite bass demo scene] while watching at "kid's in bed" levels (system in center of house)...sitcoms, sports, commercials, MusicChannel, you name it.
-Brent


Aaagh. That's the last thing I wanted.

I have the 2309 and haven't set up the Audysee yet so haven't tried the dynamic EQ/dynamic volume. I listen a lot at lower volumes, and often late at night. One reason I turn it down IS the explosiveness of sound effects, including the low bass sound effects.

What I WANT in a dynamic EQ is to maintain as much intelligibility and nuance in the midrange and highs when I turn the volume down. That, to me, is what suffers most - that sense of space and clarity is lost. I don't need the bass cranked up.

(Yeah, yeah, I know about the logarithmic loss of bass to our hearing as volume decreases...but I hope the dynamic EQ doesn't sound as described above).
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Old 09-30-2008, 07:50 PM
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Everyone is different, I never turn it off. If you have ylour bass setup properly, I don't think you will get too much low end.

gthomas
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Old 09-30-2008, 10:38 PM
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+1^^^^

I've got Dynamic EQ and Vol set to on all the time. It's sounds great at low volume, which with my other AVR without it needed to be cranked to hear all the subtle sound effects. I have noticed a little boomy-ness in some content, so I just walk over to the sub and adjust the gain until it sounds how I like it.
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Old 10-01-2008, 01:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, since the whole Denon 889 CC deal seems to have fallen through the cracks I'm just sticking with the Denon 888. I guess if I need more bass at low volumes I'll just walk up to my subwoofers and crank them up a bit. Seems like problem solved.
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Old 07-10-2009, 04:10 PM
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I thought I'd add my Dynamic EQ boomy bass complaint. Yes it makes most stuff boomy too much bass. The thing is, it shouldn't. Audyssey MultiEQ XT on my Denon 2809 does amazing things for my movie play back. At high volume levels around 25-20dB the bass is tight and nice. If I enable Dynamic EQ things get way too much boomy and very uncomfortable to listen to. I really looked forward to this Loudness feature, but I guess I'll return the receiver and wait for the next generation. Maybe a two-setting Dynamic EQ, one for movies (one that works, that is), and one for music and games that are mastered at lower volumes.

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Old 07-10-2009, 04:36 PM
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You can always run Audyssey and then manually change your bass settings
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:13 PM
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I believe they've had [edit: I mean "added"] a volume offset setting which effectively lets you adjust how much EQ is applied.

Noah
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I believe they've had a volume offset setting which effectively lets you adjust how much EQ is applied.

Dynamic eq monitors the input signal and the volume setting on the AVR.Movies are mixed at a calibrated standard level....but cd and games are all over the place.

On the Denon you can adjust the source level of eg:cd player.
Dynamic eq kicks in progressively as you lower the volume away from the "calibrated level" hence 0db.
Let's say that the cd you are listening is very hot so naturally you will lower the volume control lets say by -12b; by doing that if Dynamic EQ is ON, you are making it work harder and this translates by to much bass.

NOW if you lower the source level at the input provided by the menu in the AVR for that input let's say by 10 db then to acquire the same loudness, you will turn the volume up by the same amount.
Since Dynamic EQ monitors the volume control level setting, in this example you will be at -2 db on the volume control so Dynamic EQ will apply a very lite correction...

Hope this "sounds" clear !

owner of a 2809 and loving it
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Old 07-11-2009, 11:38 AM
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I meant to say "added" a volume offset setting, but it sounds like you understood.

Noah
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:33 PM
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I really dislike Audyssey dynamic volume. The artificial 'phasing in and out' sound it creates is not worth the benefit of the actual sound 'levelling' it does. I watch almost all my movies at the same volume level that I set as the movie starts, I don't need that to be changed at any time. Sure I hate when commercials come on TV because it gets loud...but at least I know it's coming, sometimes I turn it down...it's just part of living with it to me. I'd rather put up with commercials being a bit loud than listening to the sound during a movie 'phase' in and out...it's terrible.

As far as Audyssey MultEQ XT, it does make things 'easy' but it also doesn't give me the sound I'm looking for. In the end I just tweak it or just turn it off and do it all manually....the results are just better doing it myself.

I do agree that Audyssey can be a great tool for many people, I'm just not one of them. I would definitely recommend it to alot of people....but those tweakers and fussy people out there will most likely end up not even using it....or adjusting it far from what it set itself to originally.
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:38 PM
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Depends on the source content. DEQ in general works very well. DV can also be useful for TV/DVD source content.

Like 80's rock? Add Pirate Radio KQLZ (updated 8/21/11): http://174.127.65.10:80 to your http://www.radiodenon.com

Firmware update? http://denon-firmware-tracking.wetpaint.com/
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Old 07-11-2009, 02:48 PM
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On my Onkyo 606, Dynamic EQ really makes my surround speakers come alive at low volume. It seems to boost all frequencies, not just bass. However, sometimes the front speakers overpower the center and I have to turn the center up more than a few dB to hear dialog clearly. (This is in a fairly small room, but isn't Audyssey supposed to calibrate everything for the room? Also, how far I have to turn it up varies quite a bit with what I'm watching.) So lately I've been trying to learn to appreciate the sound with Dynamic EQ off and the volume a bit higher than what I'd use if it were on.
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Old 07-29-2009, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Shaffer View Post

On my Onkyo 606, Dynamic EQ really makes my surround speakers come alive at low volume. It seems to boost all frequencies, not just bass. However, sometimes the front speakers overpower the center and I have to turn the center up more than a few dB to hear dialog clearly. (This is in a fairly small room, but isn't Audyssey supposed to calibrate everything for the room? Also, how far I have to turn it up varies quite a bit with what I'm watching.) So lately I've been trying to learn to appreciate the sound with Dynamic EQ off and the volume a bit higher than what I'd use if it were on.

Avoid taking measurements too far off to the side (near room boundaries) and / or outside the front Left and Right loudspeakers (off-axis), even if seats are located there.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14456895

I just watched superman returns with my brother, and also found center speaker, dialogue to be a bit low, but I have probably measured too much to the sides in my last setup. FL -5.5, C -6.0, FR -4.0.

I'll build some bass traps to get better, less muddy bass. Maybe the bass settings with dynamic eq and audyssey is fine, just my room that needs treatment. Modal ringing is probably the problem, bass sounds much tighter at cinema.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHkAFSZmMk4
http://www.ethanwiner.com/density/density.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyYUpkpL0gw
http://www.runet.edu/~shelm/acoustics/bass-traps.html
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Old 09-15-2010, 02:05 PM
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I'm ressurecting this thread...

I used Dynamic EQ for about a year on my Onkyo 876, but I finally got fed up with the ridiculous amount of bass it produces on 'mundane' program material when listening at moderate volume.

Commercials, news programs, and fitness videos shouldn't cause the subwoofer to shake the dishes in a different room.
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Old 09-15-2010, 02:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_phew View Post

I'm ressurecting this thread...

I used Dynamic EQ for about a year on my Onkyo 876, but I finally got fed up with the ridiculous amount of bass it produces on 'mundane' program material when listening at moderate volume.

Commercials, news programs, and fitness videos shouldn't cause the subwoofer to shake the dishes in a different room.

I agree. I was watching a football game at low volume with Dynamic EQ on sunday. And my walls were shaking anytime the scoreboard came on the screen. I just turned off audyssey and watched the rest of the game with manual eq.
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Old 09-15-2010, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_phew View Post

I'm ressurecting this thread...

I used Dynamic EQ for about a year on my Onkyo 876, but I finally got fed up with the ridiculous amount of bass it produces on 'mundane' program material when listening at moderate volume.

Commercials, news programs, and fitness videos shouldn't cause the subwoofer to shake the dishes in a different room.

Did you set this sub up like its stated in the Audyssey thread? If not try that. I'm using 2 subs with my 876 and not having any problems whatsoever.
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Old 09-15-2010, 02:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danielson99 View Post

I really dislike Audyssey dynamic volume. The artificial 'phasing in and out' sound it creates is not worth the benefit of the actual sound 'levelling' it does. I watch almost all my movies at the same volume level that I set as the movie starts, I don't need that to be changed at any time. Sure I hate when commercials come on TV because it gets loud...but at least I know it's coming, sometimes I turn it down...it's just part of living with it to me. I'd rather put up with commercials being a bit loud than listening to the sound during a movie 'phase' in and out...it's terrible.

As far as Audyssey MultEQ XT, it does make things 'easy' but it also doesn't give me the sound I'm looking for. In the end I just tweak it or just turn it off and do it all manually....the results are just better doing it myself.

I do agree that Audyssey can be a great tool for many people, I'm just not one of them. I would definitely recommend it to alot of people....but those tweakers and fussy people out there will most likely end up not even using it....or adjusting it far from what it set itself to originally.


This is something else I noticed about Audyssey dynamic eq. I could hear the tone and volume level of people's voices change throughout the movie I was watching this weekend. It was annoying for sure.
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:17 PM
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I told everyone from the get-go that Dyn EQ was blasting my surrounds with bass and I was promptly told where to go by the very vocal and rabid Audyssey jim jones crew.

Well, circa September 2010, it DOES just that below -0dbs and it is of course annoying. Overall bass bloat seems to also be a common complaint that is also readily dismissed by the quasi-experts on the Aud thread who will simply explain that you do not understand a myriad of factors/goals of the technology.

Ok, then.

The very purpose of it is debatable to begin with IMO. You generally have the volume DOWN significantly to not disturb others or because those watching do not particularly enjoy more "full-bodied" volume levels, no? I'm sure that's wrong, lol.

So, what does DYN EQ do? It BOOSTS the most bothersome (to those on the opposite side of your walls) freqs (lower end), so sure it may sound "better" to you at lower volumes, but ask your neighbors, spouse, roommates in opposing rooms what THEY think, lol. And you may say you don't care, but if that's the case why lower the volume to begin with?

Doesn't make a lot sense to me.

Ditto for Dyn Vol. The idea of it is fine, but last time I checked, most of us spend all of our money of this to crap expressedly to HEAR the dynamics of the audio, and while I understand loud commercials are undesireable, you pretty much are choosing one of two evils here: loss of program dynamics, or loud commercials/troublesome night-time dynamics.

Simple as that. Since both are defeatable I don't really lose much sleep over them.

MultEQ XT of course is phenomenal.

So:
MultEQ XT: 9.5/10
Dyn EQ: 5/10
Dyn Vol: 4/10

I know this will pull the audyssey apologists out of the woodwork, but, whatever.

James

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Old 09-15-2010, 04:33 PM
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I dunno how all current Denon's are, but one of the big problems is the dyn vol/eq settings are set at max by default. I couldn't stand those settings, very processed sounding, and absolutely wreaked havoc with some content like video games. At minimum I would use them for TV but not music or non-commercial channels.

In the end while I think the features have value, imho there is a good chance you will love/hate them. I generally don't like processing and have a pretty sensitive ear to it, and on top of that most of my viewing is either DVR (skip commercials), or other content without commercials. If I still watched a lot of commercial having content, then I would put more value on the features.

For the record I have a 3808 as my main AVR and have not purchased the upgrade pack. I have a 790 in my secondary system, and have the lowest dyneq/vol settings engaged on the TV input only.

I would prioritize getting Aud XT (vs. standard) way before dyn eq/vol.
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