The Official Sherwood Newcastle R-972 With Trinnov Optimizer Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1133 Old 06-17-2009, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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As Jim Noyd said, I now have a new R-972 in my hands. Nothing to report yet -- I won't be able to properly set it up until the weekend. For now, here are some quick snapshots . . .

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post #92 of 1133 Old 06-17-2009, 02:27 PM
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Thanks for the picutres Chuck. How long is that mic cable?
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post #93 of 1133 Old 06-17-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Back View Post

As Jim Noyd said, I now have a new R-972 in my hands. Nothing to report yet -- I won't be able to properly set it up until the weekend. For now, here are some quick snapshots . . .

Chuck Back

Well I'll be darned! Look forward to reading your impressions! Is it generally available or limited?

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post #94 of 1133 Old 06-17-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krholmberg View Post

Does anyone know what the drive level is for the outputs for an external amp? Just curious as I recently read a lot of modern AVRs are only outputting 1.2mV instead of the traditional 2mV.


I use emotiva amps to my pre-outs on a Denon without a problem but folks with Pioneer equipment have had problems with the 1.2mV issue when connecting an external amp to the pre-outs.

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post #95 of 1133 Old 06-17-2009, 02:46 PM
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Nice pics, Chuck. Thanks!

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post #96 of 1133 Old 06-19-2009, 09:56 AM
 
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In looking at those pics, the unit only comsumes 6 amps, which tells how many watts it will have at it's disposal, 720. And some of those will be used up with processing and the like.
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post #97 of 1133 Old 06-19-2009, 01:14 PM
 
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No Ethernet port? How does one do firmware updates?
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post #98 of 1133 Old 06-19-2009, 02:18 PM
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There are both RS232 and USB ports on there - I'd suspect that one of those (if not both of them) will handle firmware updates.

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post #99 of 1133 Old 06-20-2009, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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The Sherwood Newcastle R-972 with Trinnov Optimizer is up and running! Before getting into my listening impressions, I thought I'd run through the setup process to give you an idea of what it does and a bit about how it does it.

The first step is to place the Trinnov four-microphone array. I mounted it on a tripod set at ear height in my main listening position, pointed at screen center. The mic orientation determines the system's center image location, in the both horizontal and vertical planes. The mic cable connects to an RJ45 connector on the receiver's back panel.

Setup menus are accessed using the receiver's on-screen display. To calibrate, you navigate to the Auto Setup screen and choose a memory setting for the current microphone location. Three settings can be stored to cover different listening locations or room configurations.

When calibrating, the receiver feeds test signals through each speaker, allowing the Trinnov Optimizer to locate each speaker in space. It measures distance, horizontal and vertical angles, level, frequency response, polarity, and more (for example, if the left and right front speakers are miswired, it figures out which speaker is on the left side of the room and assigns the left receiver channel to that speaker). Once these measurements are completed, an OSD shows the horizontal angle, vertical angle, and distance from the microphone to each loudspeaker.

This gives the user the opportunity to review the settings and make any changes to the system setup or speaker locations before the onboard processor makes its calculations. (If anything is changed, the test signals need to be re-run). The calculations take about 20 - 25 minutes, and include all system and Trinnov Optimizer settings. Once they are complete, an additional OSD screen shows the level and delay that the processor has calculated and implemented for each channel. The information from both screens is stored in memory for future recall.

Next is the Trinnov setup for each input. These choices made here will be the default for each input, but there is a menu available that allows these parameters to be changed while listening without changing the default.

1. Trinnov Position

As described above, there are three memory settings for listening positions. This selects the default position for the input.

2. Trinnov Room EQ

Corrects the frequency response of the system using one of the following characteristics:

- Flat - Flat frequency response to 20KHz.

- A.Phile 1 - Voices all speakers to emulate the qualities of the front left and right speakers. Can be used for systems with high-end speakers as the main pair.

- A.Phile 2 - Corrects only the low frequency response of all channels.

- Natural - Typical response of well-EQ'd room with slight LF boost and slight HF rolloff.

3. Trinnov Spatial Mode

This is where the magic happens. Makes spatial corrections to the system, giving users four choices. This capability is unique to Trinnov.

- DLY+ LVL - Distance and sound levels only are matched for all channels.

- Autoroute - Using the center location determined by the orientation of the microphone when the calibration is performed, it routes each input channel to the speaker located closest to the nominal channel location. For example, if calibration was done with the microphone facing the left surround speaker, Trinnov would assign the center channel signal to the left surround speaker, assign the right front channel signal to the left front speaker, and assign the other channels accordingly. Useful for unusual and multi-use room configurations.

- 2D Remap - The audio images for each channel are reproduced in the precise locations determined by Trinnov Remapping (see #4 below), in the horizontal plane only. For any speaker not in the proper physical location for its channel, Trinnov will apply correction so that the sound is heard in the proper channel location, in the same horizontal plane as the speaker. For example, if the surround speakers are not symmetrically mounted, listeners will hear the surround information as if both speakers were ideally located.

- 3D Remap - Provides the same Remapping as 2D, adding compensation for incorrect elevation. For example, this moves a center channel image from a speaker located below the screen up to the screen center along with the left and right speakers. This setting provides the full Trinnov spatial correction.

4. Trinnov Remapping

Two choices that produce soundfields based on speaker locations defined by generally accepted industry practices for multichannel film and music mixing. This gives listeners an unprecedented ability to hear at home what the mixers heard in the studio.

- Cinema - Front channel width extends ± 22.5° to the left and right of the center point (45° total width). Surrounds are placed in cinema orientation.

- Music - Front channel width extends ± 30° to the left and right of the center point (60° total width). Surrounds are placed in music mixing orientation.

Listening Impressions

The R-972 is set up in my theater room, which is a dedicated space about 13.5' x 22.5' with an 8' ceiling. There is no special room treatment, just a fair amount of fabric surface on furniture and carpet, so the room is quite live-sounding. I have a Stewart 49 x 87 1.78:1 screen and a Projectiondesign 720p projector. The 7.1 speaker setup has original M&Ks: MPS1611Ps up
front with SS150 surrounds and dual MX5100 subwoofers. I also have a Samsung 46 LCD flat-screen available for 1080p evaluation.

The room's symmetry and lack of windows makes for reasonable imaging, but I am always aware of the room when listening. Everything sounds tightly contained within the room dimensions, and I've always wished that the room was wider and the ceiling taller.

I set up the Trinnov in Natural response, 3D Remapping and Cinema mode. Switching the Trinnov in for the first time was unlike any other new component substitution I've experienced. Typically, I can identify numerous sonic parameters where a new component is better, but Trinnov's changes are at an entirely different level, improving the entire soundfield, or more accurately, the entire room environment, floor to ceiling and wall to wall.

The Sherwood R-972 with Trinnov is the first component that provides spatial correction, so it makes improvements that have never been available before. The correction produces a stunning change that is actually like being in a new room. The soundfield is now panoramic, and it defies definition by the room walls. My room has opened up both horizontally and vertically in ways that bring to mind the best listening rooms I've ever been in.

A couple of factors really stand out for me. First, everything is just easier to hear. Listening is so much more relaxed and natural, it seems like less ear/brain processing is taking place. Each element in the sound mix is easily resolved as a separate element among many. This ability to hear into the mix is a quality I've heard before in good recording studios playing master tapes, but never to this degree in home audio/video systems. Think of the resolution of a great recording heard over great headphones, but in three dimensional space around you instead of being inside your head.

The second factor, which is somewhat related, is the clarity of sounds panned in the mix heard in 3D space. Imagine the sound of an aircraft flyby that starts in the surrounds and moves through the room to the front (e.g., Pearl Harbor). In a typical home theater system, the sound is heard first originating from one of the surround speakers, then moving somewhat erratically through the room, with the sound's character changing as the front channels take over from the surrounds.

With Trinnov, the sound can be heard as if it originates outside the room's side wall, then moving smoothly through the room without timbre change, until its complete fade can be heard in the front soundstage. This is a quality that I've heard in big mix rooms where there is plenty of space either around or to the speakers, but never in home systems.

A good example can be heard in the Pixar logo desk lamp sound. Its first squeak no longer appears within the right speaker. Instead, it's heard first at a point outside the right wall of my room, with each subsequent bounce moving towards screen left with no change in timbre.

The front soundstage is now at vertical screen center, even though the center channel speaker sits more than two feet below that point and the left and right speakers sit above the center channel but below screen center. The coherency of the soundstage around the room is incredible, especially considering the asymmetry of boundary environments around my surround speakers. Trinnov's cleanup of a couple of bass modes has significantly increased low frequency articulation, which particularly helps with the rhythm and pace of music.

Ah, music. Regardless of the source resolution, listening to music is especially addictive! I'll try to post more on this later, but just let me say that The Beatles' Love with Trinnov is an incredible experience. It's been awhile since I've tried a new audio component that was this much fun!
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post #100 of 1133 Old 06-20-2009, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Back View Post

- Flat – Flat frequency response to 20KHz.

How low will Trinnov correct to, 30, 20hz? And, how long is the mic cable?

Thanks
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post #101 of 1133 Old 06-20-2009, 06:42 PM
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Thanks for the review Chuck. All I can say is WOW!

I'm waiting for the Outlaw 997 prepro.
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post #102 of 1133 Old 06-20-2009, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skimanfz1 View Post

Thanks for the review Chuck. All I can say is WOW!

Ditto! Thanks for taking the time to post all that, especially the pics and the Trinnov description.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skimanfz1 View Post

I'm waiting for the Outlaw 997 prepro.

Ditto! Now I'm all excited again.

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post #103 of 1133 Old 06-21-2009, 12:11 AM
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Chuck, thanks for the very comprehensive Trinnov review.

How do all of these great qualities hold up as you move away from the mike setup position?

And can you hazard a guess as to how well the bass is smoothed compared to Audyssey, and also how it holds up with changes in listening position?

Noah
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post #104 of 1133 Old 06-21-2009, 12:29 AM
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Quote:


The mic cable connects to an RJ45 connector on the receiver’s back panel.

Why not the front panel like most room correction mikes? I'm sure I'm not the only one that can't access the back of the equipment once installed in the rack.
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post #105 of 1133 Old 06-21-2009, 12:58 AM
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It sounds like you used "A.Phile 1" -- is that right?

By definition 50% of people are below the median.
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post #106 of 1133 Old 06-21-2009, 11:13 AM
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"I set up the Trinnov in Natural response"

Noah
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post #107 of 1133 Old 06-21-2009, 11:38 AM
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Thanks Chuck Back for your review! Last time I tried an auto eq system was with the Yamaha rx-v1500 receiver. It was ok for film but when listening to music it got very obvious that the sound quality was lowered by the process. Especially the high frequencies got harsch.
You seem to be satisfied with Trinnov and music. Is there no harschness and audible degradation of sound quality?
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post #108 of 1133 Old 06-21-2009, 11:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonk View Post

There are both RS232 and USB ports on there - I'd suspect that one of those (if not both of them) will handle firmware updates.

RS232 for firmware updates? Is this the 80s?

USB sounds like a usable way, though. Download the updates to a USB stick and transfer the data to the receiver via sneaker-net, but still quite doable.
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post #109 of 1133 Old 06-21-2009, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"I set up the Trinnov in Natural response"

Thanks for making me double check -- I thought they were under separate settings when he wrote "then moving smoothly through the room without timbre change" as A.Phile 1 brags "[v]oices all speakers to emulate the qualities of the front left and right speakers".

By definition 50% of people are below the median.
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post #110 of 1133 Old 06-21-2009, 12:28 PM
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We recently received Beta test samples of the Outlaw 997 pre amp-processor, the basic platform of which is based upon the Newcastle 972. We are currently taking these units through their rigid "shakedown cruise" and as you might expect there are a number of typical software bugs we have encountered. These components are truly small computers and the process of isolating and identifying every anomaly is always time consuming and tedious.

That being said, we concur with the observations of Chuck Back when it comes to the Trinnov processing. This indeed is something very special and to our ears we have not encountered anything quite like it in the world of consumer A/V products.

Trinnov has informed us that their consumer design delivers about 95% of the "processing capabilities" of their $14,000 professional units, which for the average living room borders on overkill.

We know that the final judgment on the capabilities of Trinnov will come from all those that purchase products with this circuitry integrated into the design. For the record, however, we are extremely impressed with what Trinnov can do for a variety of rooms, especially those of our Beta testers.

Peter Tribeman

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post #111 of 1133 Old 06-21-2009, 01:31 PM
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Peters comments seem a little more down to earth

Does Chuck Back work for the advertising firm below? If he does...I don't get it. The cover of this thread is posted by Chuck, and states the ad company.
http://www.noydworld.com/
I will feel better to see these out in the field with some real word thoughts. So far, I think it looks promising.
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post #112 of 1133 Old 06-22-2009, 05:48 AM
 
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The bugs he mentioned is why I am so concerned about firmware updates. I have a Denon 3808CI and I get firmware updates via ethernet. Very easy and simple.

There have been quite a few updates, too. This is, as Peter mentioned, due to the complexity of modern AVRs.

I am curious as to if Sherwood will provide updates, and how often.
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post #113 of 1133 Old 06-22-2009, 06:44 AM
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Has anyone that has heard the S/N R-972 with Trinnov Optimizer have any experience with receivers or prepros with Audyssey MultEQ XT? I am very interested on how these two room correction systems compare to one another.

Bill

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post #114 of 1133 Old 06-22-2009, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

The bugs he mentioned is why I am so concerned about firmware updates. I have a Denon 3808CI and I get firmware updates via ethernet. Very easy and simple.

There have been quite a few updates, too. This is, as Peter mentioned, due to the complexity of modern AVRs.

I am curious as to if Sherwood will provide updates, and how often.

It will not be anywhere near as smooth as the Denon which has a lot better connectivity including ethernet and USB. The Sherwood is 2 years behind the times and uses the costly and very unfriendly RS232. So upgrades will be possible but not a trivial exercise as they are on the Denon (my brother has the 3808). They will not commit to any schedule as it will likely be determined on severity of bugs found after release.

Truth
Malice may attack it
Ignorance may deride it
But at the end of the day there it is
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post #115 of 1133 Old 06-22-2009, 07:33 AM
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According to everyone who has heard demo's of the trinnov system

It is clearly better than any Audyssey MultEQ XT or similar system out there

Trinnov can do things that NONE of the others can do with their algorithms and spaciality

why would anyone want Audyssey once the Sherwood and Outlaw products hit the market with Trinnov?

Mcintosh has heard the Trinnov and they say it is awesome and they will be putting it on their new pre-pro processor; which will cost over 10K

ADA makes some high end pre-amps and they heard the demo and they said is is great and they are also putting it in their new preamp

At the CES show, the people that heard it were very impressed; there were cases of a much lesser systems with Trinnov sounding better than a more expensive system without it. That says it all

pretty soon, a bunch of companies will want to put it on their product if they want to continue selling products

20th Century Fox uses Trinnov for their movies as does a lot of the Broadcast Industry

it is a superior system for sound quality

the people that designed it are brilliant Phd Mathematicians with major technical knowledge; these are NOT sales guys pitching some gimmick
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post #116 of 1133 Old 06-22-2009, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Back View Post

The Sherwood Newcastle R-972 with Trinnov Optimizer is up and running! Before getting into my listening impressions, I thought I’d run through the setup process to give you an idea of what it does and a bit about how it does it.

The first step is to place the Trinnov four-microphone array. I mounted it on a tripod set at ear height in my main listening position, pointed at screen center. The mic orientation determines the system’s center image location, in the both horizontal and vertical planes. The mic cable connects to an RJ45 connector on the receiver’s back panel.

Setup menus are accessed using the receiver’s on-screen display. To calibrate, you navigate to the Auto Setup screen and choose a memory setting for the current microphone location. Three settings can be stored to cover different listening locations or room configurations.

When calibrating, the receiver feeds test signals through each speaker, allowing the Trinnov Optimizer to locate each speaker in space. It measures distance, horizontal and vertical angles, level, frequency response, polarity, and more (for example, if the left and right front speakers are miswired, it figures out which speaker is on the left side of the room and assigns the left receiver channel to that speaker). Once these measurements are completed, an OSD shows the horizontal angle, vertical angle, and distance from the microphone to each loudspeaker.

This gives the user the opportunity to review the settings and make any changes to the system setup or speaker locations before the onboard processor makes its calculations. (If anything is changed, the test signals need to be re-run). The calculations take about 20 - 25 minutes, and include all system and Trinnov Optimizer settings. Once they are complete, an additional OSD screen shows the level and delay that the processor has calculated and implemented for each channel. The information from both screens is stored in memory for future recall.

Next is the Trinnov setup for each input. These choices made here will be the default for each input, but there is a menu available that allows these parameters to be changed while listening without changing the default.

1. Trinnov Position

As described above, there are three memory settings for listening positions. This selects the default position for the input.

2. Trinnov Room EQ

Corrects the frequency response of the system using one of the following characteristics:

- Flat – Flat frequency response to 20KHz.

- A.Phile 1 – Voices all speakers to emulate the qualities of the front left and right speakers. Can be used for systems with high-end speakers as the main pair.

- A.Phile 2 – Corrects only the low frequency response of all channels.

- Natural – Typical response of well-EQ'd room with slight LF boost and slight HF rolloff.

3. Trinnov Spatial Mode

This is where the magic happens. Makes spatial corrections to the system, giving users four choices. This capability is unique to Trinnov.

- DLY+ LVL – Distance and sound levels only are matched for all channels.

- Autoroute – Using the center location determined by the orientation of the microphone when the calibration is performed, it routes each input channel to the speaker located closest to the nominal channel location. For example, if calibration was done with the microphone facing the left surround speaker, Trinnov would assign the center channel signal to the left surround speaker, assign the right front channel signal to the left front speaker, and assign the other channels accordingly. Useful for unusual and multi-use room configurations.

- 2D Remap – The audio images for each channel are reproduced in the precise locations determined by Trinnov Remapping (see #4 below), in the horizontal plane only. For any speaker not in the proper physical location for its channel, Trinnov will apply correction so that the sound is heard in the proper channel location, in the same horizontal plane as the speaker. For example, if the surround speakers are not symmetrically mounted, listeners will hear the surround information as if both speakers were ideally located.

- 3D Remap – Provides the same Remapping as 2D, adding compensation for incorrect elevation. For example, this moves a center channel image from a speaker located below the screen up to the screen center along with the left and right speakers. This setting provides the full Trinnov spatial correction.

4. Trinnov Remapping

Two choices that produce soundfields based on speaker locations defined by generally accepted industry practices for multichannel film and music mixing. This gives listeners an unprecedented ability to hear at home what the mixers heard in the studio.

- Cinema – Front channel width extends ± 22.5° to the left and right of the center point (45° total width). Surrounds are placed in cinema orientation.

- Music – Front channel width extends ± 30° to the left and right of the center point (60° total width). Surrounds are placed in music mixing orientation.

Listening Impressions

The R-972 is set up in my theater room, which is a dedicated space about 13.5' x 22.5' with an 8' ceiling. There is no special room treatment, just a fair amount of fabric surface on furniture and carpet, so the room is quite live-sounding. I have a Stewart 49” x 87” 1.78:1 screen and a Projectiondesign 720p projector. The 7.1 speaker setup has original M&Ks: MPS1611Ps up
front with SS150 surrounds and dual MX5100 subwoofers. I also have a Samsung 46” LCD flat-screen available for 1080p evaluation.

The room's symmetry and lack of windows makes for reasonable imaging, but I am always aware of the room when listening. Everything sounds tightly contained within the room dimensions, and I’ve always wished that the room was wider and the ceiling taller.

I set up the Trinnov in Natural response, 3D Remapping and Cinema mode. Switching the Trinnov in for the first time was unlike any other new component substitution I’ve experienced. Typically, I can identify numerous sonic parameters where a new component is better, but Trinnov’s changes are at an entirely different level, improving the entire soundfield, or more accurately, the entire room environment, floor to ceiling and wall to wall.

The Sherwood R-972 with Trinnov is the first component that provides spatial correction, so it makes improvements that have never been available before. The correction produces a stunning change that is actually like being in a new room. The soundfield is now panoramic, and it defies definition by the room walls. My room has opened up both horizontally and vertically in ways that bring to mind the best listening rooms I’ve ever been in.

A couple of factors really stand out for me. First, everything is just easier to hear. Listening is so much more relaxed and natural, it seems like less ear/brain processing is taking place. Each element in the sound mix is easily resolved as a separate element among many. This ability to hear “into the mix” is a quality I’ve heard before in good recording studios playing master tapes, but never to this degree in home audio/video systems. Think of the resolution of a great recording heard over great headphones, but in three dimensional space around you instead of being inside your head.

The second factor, which is somewhat related, is the clarity of sounds panned in the mix heard in 3D space. Imagine the sound of an aircraft flyby that starts in the surrounds and moves through the room to the front (e.g., Pearl Harbor). In a typical home theater system, the sound is heard first originating from one of the surround speakers, then moving somewhat erratically through the room, with the sound’s character changing as the front channels take over from the surrounds.

With Trinnov, the sound can be heard as if it originates outside the room’s side wall, then moving smoothly through the room without timbre change, until its complete fade can be heard in the front soundstage. This is a quality that I’ve heard in big mix rooms where there is plenty of space either around or to the speakers, but never in home systems.

A good example can be heard in the Pixar logo desk lamp sound. Its first squeak no longer appears within the right speaker. Instead, it’s heard first at a point outside the right wall of my room, with each subsequent bounce moving towards screen left with no change in timbre.

The front soundstage is now at vertical screen center, even though the center channel speaker sits more than two feet below that point and the left and right speakers sit above the center channel but below screen center. The coherency of the soundstage around the room is incredible, especially considering the asymmetry of boundary environments around my surround speakers. Trinnov’s cleanup of a couple of bass modes has significantly increased low frequency articulation, which particularly helps with the rhythm and pace of music.

Ah, music. Regardless of the source resolution, listening to music is especially addictive! I’ll try to post more on this later, but just let me say that The Beatles’ Love with Trinnov is an incredible experience. It’s been awhile since I’ve tried a new audio component that was this much fun!

It was very nice of you to spend this much time to explain this! I for one am very appreciative! Well Done!

SticknStones
"I was not born a wise man but I am learning the trade" roo
B&W 802's, Emotiva - XMC-1, (2) XPA-2's bi-wired, XPA-3, ERC-1, XDA-2, (2) Ultra-12 subs, & DSPeaker - antimode 8033c
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post #117 of 1133 Old 06-22-2009, 08:26 AM
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why would anyone want Audyssey once the Sherwood and Outlaw products hit the market with Trinnov?

Thats a good question. I think the descision also lies in the features, operation and ease/availability of FW updtes. I had the AVP7 (P-965 clone) and found the SQ to be excellent. The menu system, operational quirks and other issues of the AVP7 made the choice of returning it a tough one.

So Trinnov looks to be possibly the best room correction system available but the receiver/prepro equipped with Trinnov also has to be up to the task as well. I am hoping the R-972/997 will be as I am very interested in both these products.

Bill

My SACD collection, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

Denon 4311 (in preamp mode), Parasound 2100, Boston Acoustics A7200 amp, Oppo BDP-103, Consonance CD120, Panasonic TC-P60GT50 plasma, Panamax 5100EX, Salk Song Towers, Song Center, ADS 300C (surrounds) and two Rythmik F12SEs.
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post #118 of 1133 Old 06-22-2009, 09:45 AM
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the other manufactures like Denon, Onkyo, Marantz, etc all have to be scared about the Sherwood and Outlaw products; not much difference in price yet probably a big difference in sound quality because of Trinnov
all these companies will copy this and try to put trinnov on their upcoming pre-pro's and receivers. just wait and check on Audiogon at how many of these other products will be dumped at cheap prices as people get rid of their current pieces to get the newer ones with Trinnov. there are already tons of super bargain deals on these things right now. Sales guys (Dealers) are going to have a hell of a time trying to sell the products that don't have Trinnov. I look forward to seeing this dynamic in action in the next couple months
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post #119 of 1133 Old 06-22-2009, 10:21 AM
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Sales guys (Dealers) are going to have a hell of a time trying to sell the products that don't have Trinnov. I look forward to seeing this dynamic in action in the next couple months

I doubt it, Sherwood isn't exactly a household name. They also lack availability, there isn't even a dealer in my state, according to their site.
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post #120 of 1133 Old 06-22-2009, 10:27 AM
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they may not be a household name but once the Trinnov model hits and people start seeing reviews and hearing the product. this will set things in motion.
Right now, most of the general public knows nothing about Trinnov but they will; stay tuned. there are many Macintosh dealers around; and they are putting it on their upcoming high end pre-pro so people will hear Trinnov. of course the Mac piece will be built too well and be overprices but at least people can see what Trinnov does
We don't have an official dealer here in Michigan either but all of this can change; the dealers are desperate for more sales so if there any smart ones out there; they will want to get the Sherwood piece in so they can demo it. they are not selling much of anything these days. Only the Integra piece sells well
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