B&K Reference 70 Owners Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1407 Old 03-20-2009, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

What is the thinking about the lack of room EQ in the Ref 70?

It would seem to me that it would be a feature that most people would want. What am I missing?

While it would be nice, I've been underwhelmed with implementations that I've heard.

Furthermore, given that I sit at a number of positions within my room, and my understanding is that the tuning is relatively location specific, my sense is that I wouldn't see as much value in an equalized solution.
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post #272 of 1407 Old 03-20-2009, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadfoot1 View Post

... I sit at a number of positions within my room, and my understanding is that the tuning is relatively location specific, my sense is that I wouldn't see as much value in an equalized solution.

That's true for the distance / loudness measurements that you do on something like the Ref. 70 anyways, but the EQ curve is going to be tailored more to your speakers + room than be location specific.
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post #273 of 1407 Old 03-20-2009, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_f View Post

That's true for the distance / loudness measurements that you do on something like the Ref. 70 anyways, but the EQ curve is going to be tailored more to your speakers + room than be location specific.


RC is being accomplished by using a microphone at a point location and it will change the response at other locations. The new systems allow you to do this at multiple locations and use an average. This is why it is best to address as much of the issue as you can with good physical implementations so that you minimize the adverse affect at the locations outside your measurement points.
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post #274 of 1407 Old 03-21-2009, 09:40 AM
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Quote:


Can some of you tell me what you were using prior to the ref 70? Prior to the Cary I had the Anthem D2, Anthem D1, Lexicon ( a couple over the years) Adcom and Sunfire. Also, anyone upgrade from the ref 50? Didn't own one but did hear one very recently and wasn't impressed at all. Another member of the forum also had one on loaner a couple of years back and felt the same way. His comments prompted me to check out the ref 50 for myself. Hopefully the ref 70 doesn't have similar characteristics.

Anyone? received a couple of PM's but I was hoping for a response from a wider audience.
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post #275 of 1407 Old 03-21-2009, 08:20 PM
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I had a Ref 50 for 4 years. I was very happy with it. I used mine for both music and movies. It was paired with a B&K 200.7 amp and B&W speakers. The sound quality of the ref 70 is much better, but this may be somewhat due to the higher quality sound on my Blu-Ray DVDs. I don't use my Ref 70 for music so I haven't really compared that aspect to the older Ref 50.
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post #276 of 1407 Old 03-21-2009, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlary View Post

I had a Ref 50 for 4 years. I was very happy with it. I used mine for both music and movies. It was paired with a B&K 200.7 amp and B&W speakers. The sound quality of the ref 70 is much better, but this may be somewhat due to the higher quality sound on my Blu-Ray DVDs. I don't use my Ref 70 for music so I haven't really compared that aspect to the older Ref 50.

Thanks dlary.

Any owners in the NY/NJ area? An AVS member invited me for an audition in CT (thank you by the way) which I may consider as well but hoping someone local has a setup.
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post #277 of 1407 Old 03-22-2009, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlary View Post

I had a Ref 50 for 4 years. I was very happy with it. I used mine for both music and movies. It was paired with a B&K 200.7 amp and B&W speakers. The sound quality of the ref 70 is much better, but this may be somewhat due to the higher quality sound on my Blu-Ray DVDs. I don't use my Ref 70 for music so I haven't really compared that aspect to the older Ref 50.

I'll agree with you at the Ref. 70 sounds very good for movies. However, for music, I felt high ends were overly sizzled to force a sense of being "airy" and there was a frequency gap or dip somewhere in the mid-bass.
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post #278 of 1407 Old 03-22-2009, 06:45 AM
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I would be willing to bet that any frequency dips were due to room/speaker acoustics. These things are computers, and I think the engineers design a product that looks great on a test bench.
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post #279 of 1407 Old 03-22-2009, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlary View Post

I would be willing to bet that any frequency dips were due to room/speaker acoustics. These things are computers, and I think the engineers design a product that looks great on a test bench.

+1

Jason -did you ever take a reading of your room with REW or something similar? Sizzled highs may also be your room. Is your room treated at all? I know you mentioned you just picked up the Denon. If you're using room eq, I would be curious of the results with room eq enabled vs disabled.
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post #280 of 1407 Old 03-26-2009, 07:13 PM
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Jeez - This thread is a ghost town. I'm assuming very few owners or everything is working well with the ref 70 for everyone?
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post #281 of 1407 Old 03-26-2009, 07:21 PM
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very few owner
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post #282 of 1407 Old 03-26-2009, 07:44 PM
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The owners are too busy watching Uconn Rule!!!

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post #283 of 1407 Old 03-26-2009, 08:08 PM
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I thought it was watching "Rule Violations" I think your Basketball Program and coach are going down
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post #284 of 1407 Old 04-01-2009, 11:08 AM
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Okay, now that we are into April. Although just barely Any word on the daughter board for decoding the HD audio formats? If not, maybe I will check in with SteveH or possibly call B&K directly.

Thanks.
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post #285 of 1407 Old 04-01-2009, 11:43 AM
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Personally, I think I will keep the Ref50 in service and wait for the Ref70 with daughterboard already in and ready to go (a couple of firmware updates) before I take the plunge. This is a big investment to not have that already in place, but that's just me.

ELvis has left the building!
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post #286 of 1407 Old 04-01-2009, 12:21 PM
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You definitely have a point, but I was at the point that I needed to do something and really wanted the Ref 70. I have had it since January and love it every time I turn it on. The audio is just amazing!

Right now my Blu-Ray player is decoding the HD audio and passing it to the Ref 70 over HDMI.

I purchased the Ref 70 with FW 1.05. It has really been quite stable. I am having one little issue, but need to do some more testing to see if it is the TV or the Ref 70. If it is the Ref 70, I will let you guys know what the problem is and report it to B&K.
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post #287 of 1407 Old 04-01-2009, 12:31 PM
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I just bought the ref 70 through AVS and I must say the sound quality alone has me sold. Besides, I am limited to stereo at the moment.

Mike
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post #288 of 1407 Old 04-02-2009, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosh00 View Post

Okay, now that we are into April. Although just barely Any word on the daughter board for decoding the HD audio formats? If not, maybe I will check in with SteveH or possibly call B&K directly.

Thanks.

Mosh, please keep us posted on any info! SteveH, if you are around any news?
Can you tell I am a little anxious?
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post #289 of 1407 Old 04-02-2009, 09:30 AM
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Will do. I am on vacation tomorrow, so I will call B&K to see what they have to say.
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post #290 of 1407 Old 04-02-2009, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlary View Post

I would be willing to bet that any frequency dips were due to room/speaker acoustics. These things are computers, and I think the engineers design a product that looks great on a test bench.


I was initially concerned about jason_f's comments about sizzled highs until I saw a picture of his setup with his new Denon. It appears to me that his room has very little in the way of acoustical treatments i.e., wood floor, bare walls, etc. (think racquetball court). My own experience has been quite different. This is one of the best sounding additions that I have made to my theater (I am currently operating in a stereo only mode) and there have been no issues with clicks or pops.

My current system:

DIY Statement speakers (replaces Magnepan 1.6 5.1 system) http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=29968
Parasound 2105 amp (soon to be replaced by DIY 400W Hypex Monoblocks)
Velodyne DD18 sub
Lumagen Radiance video processor
JVC RS-1 projector
DTV DVR
Panasonic 35(?) Blu-ray
Toshiba HD XA2
B&K Reference 70 (replaces highly modified EAD TheaterMaster)

Mike
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post #291 of 1407 Old 04-03-2009, 12:08 PM
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I suppose you could chalk it up to my room, but the Outlaw 990 and my Denon both sound supperb in the exact same room via stereo direct mode. It's also not a bare wood floor in the room - a majority of the room is covered by carpets or furniture. The only wall that is bare is the one behind the TV currently (repainting starting soon.)

I'm glad you guys like your B&Ks. I hope they work great for you for a long time and you get your HD codec upgrades soon...
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post #292 of 1407 Old 04-03-2009, 01:01 PM
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I called B&K today. Spoke with a gentleman in Technical Support. They are working on the HD audio support and are targeting a late spring/early summer release. It really is comming, it is just a matter of when we will get it. Until then, I will let my Blu-Ray player do the decoding and send it out over HDMI. The sound is fantastic and I enjoy the unit everytime I watch something in my HT.
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post #293 of 1407 Old 04-03-2009, 01:03 PM
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Since I am on vacation today, I have spent most of the day tweaking settings in my HT system. I setup the B&K software for configuring the Reference 70 and then connected to it over my network. I must say that they have a pretty good interface. I love the idea that I can set everything up on my computer and then save the settings and just push them out to the Ref 70. Don't have to worry about losing my settings.
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post #294 of 1407 Old 04-03-2009, 01:17 PM
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Although I have been quite the B&K fanboy as of late, I am having one problem and have determined that it is in fact the Ref 70 that is the problem. I was on the phone with tech support today. Spoke with a very nice guy. They were not aware of the problem I was having. I told him I had taken some pictures of the coloring problem I was having so he asked me to email him. He would then forward the email on to engineering for review.

Below is what I reported. I would be curious if anyone else is having problems streaming MPEG-4 (H.264), WMA, and/or AVI videos through the Reference 70 using either an Xbox 360 or PS3. In my case the picture shows up all purple.

---------------------------------------------------

Per Todd’s request I am sending you images of the problem I am having with the Reference 70 when playing MPEG-4 (H.264) videos using the Xbox 360.

Here is my setup:

Reference 70 with FW 1.05 (purchased in January 2009 with FW 1.05 installed)
Samsung 61” LED DLP HDTV – Model HL61A750 (purchased in January 2009)
Xbox 360 – Late model unit with HDMI connection (purchased October 2008)

The Xbox 360 is connected to the Ref 70 using HDMI. It is connected to Input 9. The Ref 70 is then connected to the HDTV by HDMI using HDMI 1 on the TV. All sources except for over-the-air are routed through the Ref 70 using HDMI. The HDMI cables being used are from Monoprice and are certified as 1.3a Category 2 cables. I primarily use the Xbox 360 as a media extender connected to my Dell Vista machine and my HP Windows Home Server. The vista machine has multiple tuner cards in it and thus I use it to stream recorded shows. I store all my H.264 videos on my Home Server and stream them from there. I have no problem playing games with the Xbox or streaming recorded shows (dvr-ms format). The problem arises when trying to play MPEG-4 (H.264) videos. I have ripped my DVD collection to this format and a watch a lot of video podcasts (Diggnation, Greek Brief, Tekzilla) in this format. The coloration issues occur whether I stream the H.264 videos across my network or load them onto a thumb drive and play them directly from the 360.

I do not have any coloration issues when connecting the 360 directly to the TV and playing the H.264 videos.

I have tested wma and avi files and the same coloration issue occurs. These are the other video formats supported by the Xbox 360.

I have attached images of the coloration problem. As you can see in Image 1, the coloring is fine. Then after I select Play/Resume, the H.264 video starts to play and the coloring goes purple (Image 2). To correct the color issue, I have to cycle through the TV sources. Once back to HDMI 1 (connection to the Ref 70), the coloring of the H.264 video is fine (Image 3). But then when I stop the H.264 video, the coloring of the Xbox menuing system is messed up (Image 5). Again I have to cycle through the TV inputs to correct the problem.

Again, this does not happen when the 360 is connected directly to the TV.

Thank you for looking into this issue and please let me know what you find out.
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post #295 of 1407 Old 04-03-2009, 02:04 PM
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I have an occasional problem where the screen goes green, Almost like the the green gun was the only one firing on my TV, (not really as I have a DLP, but that's what it looks like). I have to unplug the Ref 70 and restart it to fix the problem. I think it might be another HDMI issue. This happens on both my DVD input and my DirecTV input.
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post #296 of 1407 Old 04-06-2009, 10:34 AM
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jason_f,

Sorry, the room acoustics was just a guess that might explain your sudden turn around. There obviously are many variables involved that might explain it. In any case, I also hope you enjoy your new Denon. Meanwhile, I share your perception that I have quoted form an earlier post. Hopefully, it will not change for me as I am quite enamored with this unit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_f View Post

[size="4"][b]This is a completely different experience. This isn't even wishy-washy "I think it might be better" stuff. It's clear that there is an absolutely gigantic difference. The dead giveaways are the over-buttery-smooth sound is gone, and vocalists no longer sound like they are standing behind the band. More subjectively, the soundstage is incredibly huge.

The B&K might actually be the best preamp I've ever heard... how's that for a turnaround?

Mike
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post #297 of 1407 Old 04-12-2009, 08:17 AM
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Anthem AVM 50 can decode hirez audio formats and also provide room correction. I hope B&K is paying attention.



Anthem Room Correction (ARC): Available as an upgrade for AVM 40's and AVM 50's

Anthem Room Correction, three years in development, is the first real implementation of research conducted over 20 years ago by Canada's National Research Council (NRC). The NRC’s goal was to identify the correct in-room "target response" for a loudspeaker and then develop a system to achieve this response from multiple speakers in any listening room. Now through ARC and Anthem processors, a way to achieve these results in your listening room is obtainable.
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post #298 of 1407 Old 04-12-2009, 09:01 AM
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wow...sounds like a commercial
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post #299 of 1407 Old 04-12-2009, 02:18 PM
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A commercial that B&K , unfortunately, can't make; (yet, I hope)
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post #300 of 1407 Old 04-12-2009, 03:30 PM
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If you assume that when you spend >$5K on an HT processor that you should get exceptional 2 channel audio, then I highly recommend you audition the Anthem before you jump to that conclusion.
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