B&K Reference 70 Owners Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1410 Old 05-29-2009, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brubacca View Post

Chances are the upgrade would be at least $800... I have a Reference 10 processor... Once the Ref 30 and 50 came out the upgrade was more like $800.

B&K units sond great, but upgrades are slow and expensive.

*** I could only ever get answers from B&K directly and usually the guys in Tech Support *** Call with a "problem" or setup question, then ask the tech about any upgrades. They used to know.

Well, if they ultimately end up charging that much for the 1st Ref 70 upgrade, they will need to add more than just auto room correction.
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post #362 of 1410 Old 05-29-2009, 04:49 PM
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Hi Guys,

Someone told me that people were wondering if I had any info on the processor. I'll email the head engineer and post back. I know that they want to avoid 5 updates as they did on this version so they are trying to get things right.

I CAN promise you this. If you want the upgrades I want it even more (sales somewhat stalled on the 70 as people figured they might as well wait). AND if I am anxious, B&K is more anxious by a factor of 200X more than I.

I can say this.... It seems that design engineers have an optimistic view on when things are ready. I've seen that on all the lines (to varying degrees). Even when I worked at Honeywell's semiconductor center, designers took a lot longer than THEY predicted. It seems every ETA has been missed but the ETA's shorten with time.

I'm very anxious for my personal system as well. I've dropped Ed an email seconds ago. he usually gets back to me in a day or two.
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post #363 of 1410 Old 05-30-2009, 12:45 PM
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Anybody notice if this happened to them, but I recently did the firmware upgrade to my Ref. 70 because it kept freezing up, or I should say that changing from one place in the menus to another took forever. Before I did the firmware upgrade, the sound was awesome, but it seems after I flashed the firmware, the freezing has stopped but for some reason the unit doesn't sound the same, also I am now getting a low thumping sound from my sub when I take out a dvd from my blu-ray player. It is a constant, low sound thumping. If I turn off the unit and wait then turn it back on, there is no sound but after a while when i take out a movie, the thumping returns . Anyways, hope the upgrade for the codecs IS actually coming and that they are not just stalling .
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post #364 of 1410 Old 05-31-2009, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post

Hi Guys,

Someone told me that people were wondering if I had any info on the processor. I'll email the head engineer and post back. I know that they want to avoid 5 updates as they did on this version so they are trying to get things right.

I CAN promise you this. If you want the upgrades I want it even more (sales somewhat stalled on the 70 as people figured they might as well wait). AND if I am anxious, B&K is more anxious by a factor of 200X more than I.

I can say this.... It seems that design engineers have an optimistic view on when things are ready. I've seen that on all the lines (to varying degrees). Even when I worked at Honeywell's semiconductor center, designers took a lot longer than THEY predicted. It seems every ETA has been missed but the ETA's shorten with time.

I'm very anxious for my personal system as well. I've dropped Ed an email seconds ago. he usually gets back to me in a day or two.

Hey Steve, thanks for checking on this for us. Look foward to hearing an update.

Mike
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post #365 of 1410 Old 06-03-2009, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I am on version 1.05 of the software and video version 1.20.1.1024..what is the latest?

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post #366 of 1410 Old 06-05-2009, 09:31 PM
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I doubt if many of us would have purchased the Ref 70 without the promise of a quick upgrade to match the capabilities of competitor's products. Many promises have been made by B&K dealers, but we still can't get an official announcement from B&K that they are even working on an upgrade to the new surround formats. Pardon me if all of the hearsay from engineers at B&K is beginning to wear a little thin. I think it is time for B&K to give us an update on what their plans are.
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post #367 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael James View Post

I am on version 1.05 of the software and video version 1.20.1.1024..what is the latest?

I believe that is the latest version. I dont think they've done any updates to the firmware since Jan. of this year.


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I doubt if many of us would have purchased the Ref 70 without the promise of a quick upgrade to match the capabilities of competitor's products. Many promises have been made by B&K dealers, but we still can't get an official announcement from B&K that they are even working on an upgrade to the new surround formats. Pardon me if all of the hearsay from engineers at B&K is beginning to wear a little thin. I think it is time for B&K to give us an update on what their plans are.

I am with you on this. Even though it does sound great, I might've gone with another pre-pro or better yet, waited if I knew that B&K would be dragging their feet on upgrading their flagship receiver. For all the hassles and the missing extras that cheaper receivers would have given me, I am starting to second guess my decision to purchase the Ref. 70. It also seems that those who sell this receiver are just regurgitating what the engineers are feeding them. It really does seem that B&K never really intended to have an upgrade to their receiver. I guess they just figured they would put this out, especially to their sellers, and not really guarantee anything, so that when the upgrade DOESN'T come around, there is really nothing any of us who bought this receiver can do. I remember talking to a salesman at B&K over the phone and him telling me that they were putting a guarantee in the box with the new receiver that would promise the upgrade for the codecs. Guess what,when I received my Ref.70, one was NOT in the box. I guess that should have been my first clue. It's no wonder a very reputable AV store here where I live stopped selling the B&K line. Well, technically they still carry the B&K but they don't keep it in stock anymore and their sales reps refuse to even mention the B&K product to any new customers. They must know something I wish I would've pickup on. Oh well, next time I will know better. I really do hope I am wrong though.
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post #368 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 08:31 AM
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I agree this is my third processor in a row that the upgrade path has stalled or died I can't get rid of my last one and past on one that had the Codecs I desired.
I don't blame the dealer I ultimatly made the choice but now have been waiting since November.
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post #369 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlary View Post

I doubt if many of us would have purchased the Ref 70 without the promise of a quick upgrade to match the capabilities of competitor's products. Many promises have been made by B&K dealers, but we still can't get an official announcement from B&K that they are even working on an upgrade to the new surround formats. Pardon me if all of the hearsay from engineers at B&K is beginning to wear a little thin. I think it is time for B&K to give us an update on what their plans are.

Hope my post is not OT: I have been following this thread, enthusiastically - or trying to be, as it creeps along. Also another thread (50+ pages) about Marantz AV/MM 8003 which included B&K's Ref 70 and SteveH's shoot-out The results motivated me to start saving for the Ref 70/200.7. Started a PM dialogue and phone conversation with SteveH who was very thoughtful and who gently nudged me to commit before the promises of codecs and Motorola's RC were delivered. My intuition was to wait, not doubting his sincerity.

After over a year, I had returned my Denon 4308CI to Crutchfield totally dissatisfied with its audio and video performance, HDMI handshake bugs etc. Took a sizeable loss and replaced it with Marantz AV/MM 8003 which arrived defective out of the box. In anticipation, I purchased AudioQuest's XLRs which cost enough to purchase an amp. Serves me right to put the horse before the cart.. Presently feeding audio to an ole stand-by, Yamaha DSP-A1 without HDMI but with quite enjoyable audio and an unbreakable performance for all these years.

Was hoping to be reading that B&K delivered or was on the verge of following through. Reading everyone's posts is so disappointing. Sorry for all of you who have committed and anticipating those upgrades. As you are, I am keeping a positive attitude even if somewhat strained.

I committed to EA for the Oppo BD-83 (that number in variations keeps coming up) which I am grateful I did. Still buggy, but video and SQ are excellent. Wishing I could hook up the Oppo to a B&K system and have it all, especially hearing from others on this thread about their pleasure with the SQ. Presently, HDMI direct from Oppo to Sony 52XBR5

Excuse my lengthy post and OT. Just wanted to connect, express my appreciation learning from others about their experience with B&K and the on-going pursuit of those "promised" upgrades. Still saving for the Ref 70/200.7 in the hope that the upgrades and my B&K fund coincide in availability.

Hello, SteveH.

Best regards,
Richard
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post #370 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 10:53 AM
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Richard,

Good to read your post.

I have to agree with you. It makes more sense to analog your way with a prepro/receiver you have for a while than take the loss on a new generation prepro that may never be functional.

I commented on the Ref 70 back last year when I heard the announcement on another forum. I just couldn't see why anyone would buy it until it was completely functional. It was basically a $4k HDMI switcher upgrade. ...and now that they're going to 1.4, where does that leave you.

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post #371 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REShaman View Post

Hope my post is not OT: I have been following this thread, enthusiastically - or trying to be, as it creeps along. Also another thread (50+ pages) about Marantz AV/MM 8003 which included B&K's Ref 70 and SteveH's shoot-out The results motivated me to start saving for the Ref 70/200.7. Started a PM dialogue and phone conversation with SteveH who was very thoughtful and who gently nudged me to commit before the promises of codecs and Motorola's RC were delivered. My intuition was to wait, not doubting his sincerity.


This is due to HDMI issues?

Quote:


After over a year, I had returned my Denon 4308CI to Crutchfield totally dissatisfied with its audio and video performance, HDMI handshake bugs etc. Took a sizeable loss


That's an amazing statement, i.e. for them (Crutchfield) to take it back "after over a year" but Crutchfield has long had an outstanding reputation.

FWIW, I agree with you on mid/upper level Denon AVR's not delivering decent *audio* but not sure what your complains are with it's video processing. OTOH, I've never used my Denon AVR 3808 for video processing.

Cheers

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post #372 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 11:47 AM
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Sounds like the local natives are getting restless!

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver700 View Post

Anybody notice if this happened to them, but I recently did the firmware upgrade to my Ref. 70 because it kept freezing up, or I should say that changing from one place in the menus to another took forever. Before I did the firmware upgrade, the sound was awesome, but it seems after I flashed the firmware, the freezing has stopped but for some reason the unit doesn't sound the same, also I am now getting a low thumping sound from my sub when I take out a dvd from my blu-ray player. It is a constant, low sound thumping. If I turn off the unit and wait then turn it back on, there is no sound but after a while when i take out a movie, the thumping returns . Anyways, hope the upgrade for the codecs IS actually coming and that they are not just stalling .

I have heard the low level thumping from my sub. I haven't fired up the system in a while, to busy at work and building my own 4 passive subs. I don't think mine does it since I got it back from B&K, bit I will check tonight. I think I tried different Bluray and HDDVD players and it seemed to do it with my LG BH200 only if I remember correctly. I think mine did it even when it was in pause mode, in fact I think it did it when ever there was no audio playing but once in a while it didn't do it? Never could figure it out but I didn't let it bother me to much, it didn't seem to be that big of a problem to me.
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post #373 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Richard,

Good to read your post.

I have to agree with you. It makes more sense to analog your way with a prepro/receiver you have for a while than take the loss on a new generation prepro that may never be functional.

I commented on the Ref 70 back last year when I heard the announcement on another forum. I just couldn't see why anyone would buy it until it was completely functional. It was basically a $4k HDMI switcher upgrade. ...and now that they're going to 1.4, where does that leave you.

Actually, I think the hdmi switching is not very good at all. At least it does produce a very good sound, a big upgrade in sound quality over everything else I heard. I wish the Ref. 70 would allow a pass through in the hdmi switching. I really don't like the b&k video processor and what it does to my picture.
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post #374 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 02:03 PM
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Gentlemen:

I empathize with the frustration of not getting what we've been promised. There is a very satisfactory interim solution.

$499 got the new OPPO BD-83. Eight old analog cables connect into the "7.1 In" connectors of my REF70. I set the OPPO to always output 1080P/24 when possible.

For now, all high def audio codecs are decoded by the OPPO. All video is passed right through using 1080P/24. Not the perfect solution - but one we can live with while we wait for the (eventual?) upgrade.

Jim
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post #375 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxerboy View Post

Gentlemen:

I empathize with the frustration of not getting what we've been promised. There is a very satisfactory interim solution.

$499 got the new OPPO BD-83. Eight old analog cables connect into the "7.1 In" connectors of my REF70. I set the OPPO to always output 1080P/24 when possible.

For now, all high def audio codecs are decoded by the OPPO. All video is passed right through using 1080P/24. Not the perfect solution - but one we can live with while we wait for the (eventual?) upgrade.

Jim

Jim - The BD-83 decodes internally doesn't it? Curious why you wouldn't set the player to PCM and just output the multichannel signal HDMI? Although the Ref 70 doesn't decode it will except a multichannel PCM signal via HDMI.

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post #376 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Jim - The BD-83 decodes internally doesn't it? Curious why you wouldn't set the player to PCM and just output the multichannel signal HDMI? Although the Ref 70 doesn't decode it will except a multichannel PCM signal via HDMI.

Exactly Tony. The BD-83 decodes all the HD codecs either as LPCM via HDMI or 5.1/7.1 mch analogue. Or can pass through bitstream via HDMI and let the AVR decode which the Ref 70 is not equipped for the present. Waiting on the upgrades, with a Ref 70, one can have a excellent solution and SACD/DVD-Audio/HDCD/DTS-CD etc. I am really enjoying the versatility of the BD-83. And with the VRS ABT2010 chip/ blu-ray and DVD upconversion should look great in combination with Ref 70/200.7.
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post #377 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

This is due to HDMI issues?




That's an amazing statement, i.e. for them (Crutchfield) to take it back "after over a year" but Crutchfield has long had an outstanding reputation.

FWIW, I agree with you on mid/upper level Denon AVR's not delivering decent *audio* but not sure what your complains are with it's video processing. OTOH, I've never used my Denon AVR 3808 for video processing.

Cheers

To be clear: With plenty of bells and whistles, my Denon 4308CI's network card was defective new out of the box. Decided to hand carry it to their NJ headquarters to get it fixed. The Faroudja DCDi Video Processing and Scaling FLI2310, IMO, was only mediocre, compared to the VRS chip that the BD-83 employs, which to my eyes is far superior and comparable to the Realta HQV video processor or even slightly better (?). Even the Panasonic BDK-55 player via HDMI straight to the XBR5 performed better. Also had problems with cable box, HD-DVD audio syncing and video freezes. The SQ overall was such a disappointment, I was willing to send the 4308CI back to Crutchfield for resale, and took a financial hit, in anticipation of the SQ raves from posters who bought the Marantz AV8003. But the Marantz arrived new with no right channel out of the box. Some bad luck for me.

Reading this thread, I realize the Ref 70 has had it share of audio and video problems, which are gradually being addressed with FW upgrades and problems mating with other Oppo players. Didn't someone at the behest of SteveH ship their player to B&K so certain problems could be addressed?

I am willing to wait it out and discover what the B&K wizards have in their little black bag. Ironically, I do not suffer the handshake problems others are posting as my DSP-A1 AV doesn't have HDMI. Hoping B&K does right by all who have already purchased Ref 70s and looking forward to the next iteration.

Enjoy as best you can.
Richard
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post #378 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REShaman View Post

Exactly Tony. The BD-83 decodes all the HD codecs either as LPCM via HDMI or 5.1/7.1 mch analogue. Or can pass through bitstream via HDMI and let the AVR decode which the Ref 70 is not equipped for the present. Waiting on the upgrades, with a Ref 70, one can have a excellent solution and SACD/DVD-Audio/HDCD/DTS-CD etc. I am really enjoying the versatility of the BD-83. And with the VRS ABT2010 chip/ blu-ray and DVD upconversion should look great in combination with Ref 70/200.7.

That's my point.. why is Boxerboy using 8 analog cables when all is needed is LPCM to the ref70 via hdmi. No need for the analog cables...

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post #379 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 07:24 PM
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And now we can add the Pioneer BDP-51FD to the list of players that can decode HD audio.

ck
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post #380 of 1410 Old 06-06-2009, 09:39 PM
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If a $300 blu-ray player can reliably decode the HD surround sound, why can't a $3,000 processor?

Sending the sound via analog cables or LPCM is only a work around. I want the Ref 70 to do the work so that it can apply extra processing such as bass management, notch filters, 5.1 to 7.1 conversion, etc. (and hopefully the room equalization that has been mentioned as also being worked on)

I certainly hope B&K is close to delivering on the promises of their dealer network. If not, the Ref 70 will probably be discontinued as no one will buy one.
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post #381 of 1410 Old 06-07-2009, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlary View Post

If a $300 blu-ray player can reliably decode the HD surround sound, why can't a $3,000 processor?

Sending the sound via analog cables or LPCM is only a work around. I want the Ref 70 to do the work so that it can apply extra processing such as bass management, notch filters, 5.1 to 7.1 conversion, etc. (and hopefully the room equalization that has been mentioned as also being worked on)

I certainly hope B&K is close to delivering on the promises of their dealer network. If not, the Ref 70 will probably be discontinued as no one will buy one.

You're absolutely right on this. I don't know how true this is but someone I know, that seems to know a lot about this, said that it is better to have the receiver decode the signal rather than having the source do it. Why?, well he gave me a long drawn out explanation that I really didn't get, but he seemed pretty sure about this. Anyone out there that seems to share this view?
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post #382 of 1410 Old 06-07-2009, 03:18 PM
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One thing I can say is that as of right now I have no processor because I'm trying to decide what to get. So I'm using my Oppo player to do everything so in turn am using the analog outs on my player to go directly to my amp. With this setup it doesn't sound as good as the Marantz AV8003 I had in the system for a month. So I don't see how it could sound any better if I had to use the analog outs to run to a processor because the player would be doing it's thing to the signal anyway. I was set on getting the Ref70 too but I can't get over the fect it doesn't do video pass through so I may go back to the Marantz until 6-9 months from now.

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post #383 of 1410 Old 06-08-2009, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveH View Post

Hi Guys,

Someone told me that people were wondering if I had any info on the processor. I'll email the head engineer and post back. I know that they want to avoid 5 updates as they did on this version so they are trying to get things right.

I CAN promise you this. If you want the upgrades I want it even more (sales somewhat stalled on the 70 as people figured they might as well wait). AND if I am anxious, B&K is more anxious by a factor of 200X more than I.

I can say this.... It seems that design engineers have an optimistic view on when things are ready. I've seen that on all the lines (to varying degrees). Even when I worked at Honeywell's semiconductor center, designers took a lot longer than THEY predicted. It seems every ETA has been missed but the ETA's shorten with time.

I'm very anxious for my personal system as well. I've dropped Ed an email seconds ago. he usually gets back to me in a day or two.

I appreciate you looking into this, any updates?
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post #384 of 1410 Old 06-08-2009, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REShaman View Post

To be clear: With plenty of bells and whistles, my Denon 4308CI's network card was defective new out of the box. Decided to hand carry it to their NJ headquarters to get it fixed. The Faroudja DCDi Video Processing and Scaling FLI2310, IMO, was only mediocre, compared to the VRS chip that the BD-83 employs, which to my eyes is far superior and comparable to the Realta HQV video processor or even slightly better (?). Even the Panasonic BDK-55 player via HDMI straight to the XBR5 performed better. Also had problems with cable box, HD-DVD audio syncing and video freezes. The SQ overall was such a disappointment, I was willing to send the 4308CI back to Crutchfield for resale, and took a financial hit, in anticipation of the SQ raves from posters who bought the Marantz AV8003. But the Marantz arrived new with no right channel out of the box. Some bad luck for me.

Reading this thread, I realize the Ref 70 has had it share of audio and video problems, which are gradually being addressed with FW upgrades and problems mating with other Oppo players. Didn't someone at the behest of SteveH ship their player to B&K so certain problems could be addressed?

I am willing to wait it out and discover what the B&K wizards have in their little black bag. Ironically, I do not suffer the handshake problems others are posting as my DSP-A1 AV doesn't have HDMI. Hoping B&K does right by all who have already purchased Ref 70s and looking forward to the next iteration.

Enjoy as best you can.
Richard

I'm the guy who sent my Oppo DVD player into B&K at the behest of SteveH, for LPCM compatibility with multichannel SACD discs. B&K found a problem with the activation sequence (or something like that) that they were going to try and fix in a firmware update. So far that hasn't happened.

I assume that the new Oppo Bluray player outputs LPCM multi-channel in a very similar manner (same identification stream) that the Ref. 70 is not locking onto. This is probably why the guy with the new Oppo Bluray player recommended using the Analog cables.

In my case, I could only get the Ref. 70 to play stereo with the multi-channel SACD discs over PCM. However, it does a great job handling the LPCM stream from my Panasonic Bluray.

For the record, I am still very happy with the sound quality of my Ref. 70/Classe CA-5100 combo. I guess I can be patient for a while longer waiting for future upgrades.
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post #385 of 1410 Old 06-09-2009, 01:12 PM
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For the record, I am still very happy with the sound quality of my Ref. 70/Classe CA-5100 combo. I guess I can be patient for a while longer waiting for future upgrades.

I might be more patient if other manufacturers weren't already shipping 2nd generation products with the HiDef codec capability. I might be more patient if we had an official announcement from B&K stating that this was in the works.
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post #386 of 1410 Old 06-09-2009, 01:17 PM
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I agree. I see no excuse for total lack of official news from B & K.

Jim
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post #387 of 1410 Old 06-10-2009, 11:47 PM
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Hi all.

I have been lurking a bit here, in the Cary thread, etc... I am sorry you all feel misled but it is not exclusive to B&K - neither is the lack of communication. Most of the high end brands are having a difficult time adapting to the rapid changes in harware and software - HDMI evolution, etc. I suspect these mfgrs are feeling the pressure from the dealers/distributors like Steve H who wants them to update the unit as much (if not more so) as you all do... I suspect with all things digital from high end audio companies, they are held up by other suppliers that produce the ICs within the box. Hence B&K is probably just as frustrated but cannot share this with the consumer as it would come across "wrong". I too am fence sitting but am still seriously contemplating the 70 or the Integra as I have a terrific 2-channel preamp that I may use in bypass mode.
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post #388 of 1410 Old 06-11-2009, 12:11 PM
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Hi all.

I have been lurking a bit here, in the Cary thread, etc... I am sorry you all feel misled but it is not exclusive to B&K - neither is the lack of communication. Most of the high end brands are having a difficult time adapting to the rapid changes in harware and software - HDMI evolution, etc. I suspect these mfgrs are feeling the pressure from the dealers/distributors like Steve H who wants them to update the unit as much (if not more so) as you all do... I suspect with all things digital from high end audio companies, they are held up by other suppliers that produce the ICs within the box. Hence B&K is probably just as frustrated but cannot share this with the consumer as it would come across "wrong". I too am fence sitting but am still seriously contemplating the 70 or the Integra as I have a terrific 2-channel preamp that I may use in bypass mode.

I feel compelled to respond. The sentiments expressed by others are palpably felt by me; and I'd like to echo the sentiments of bob53. It's apparent that the feelings expressed in this thread include disappointment and frustration. I am one step removed by deciding not to commit until B&K offers a product that includes what has been promised. Yet, had I purchased what I contemplated would be in my rack by now, i.e., Ref 70/200.7, I too would find it totally unsatisfactory and straining my patience.
I am sure my consoling with you all is of little consequence. I think, FWIW, bob53's perspective is spot on. It just doesn't make sense that B&K would be as schizophrenic as to produce the quality of products that attracts us and then leave us so disappointed as to drive us to seek another solution without some justification. What I find perplexing is how clueless they are about communicating with their customers. Who's at the helm there?
Notwithstanding what bob53 intimates, there are ways to maintain rapport with their customer base that shows some consideration for what loyal customers have been patiently waiting for that is being offered by other brands (even if problematic).
I, 41, am patiently waiting and saving. And like others have expressed I find B&K's deafening silence hard to countenance even in the best light of what they may have to contend with. Though I am sympathetic with both the customer's conundrum and the manufacturer's challenges.
My imagination is prompting me to revision what might be possible, i.e., Classe or other high quality brands. But there's a part of me still holding to the vision of B&K for my HT.
I am sure "They" are reading this thread. Or should be IMO. Time for customer relations to connect in a meaningful way with customers and those desirous of becoming a customer.
Are you listening B&K? Excuse me for my OT post. Mean well...
Best,
Richard
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post #389 of 1410 Old 06-14-2009, 05:18 PM
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I feel compelled to respond. The sentiments expressed by others are palpably felt by me; and I'd like to echo the sentiments of bob53. It's apparent that the feelings expressed in this thread include disappointment and frustration. I am one step removed by deciding not to commit until B&K offers a product that includes what has been promised. Yet, had I purchased what I contemplated would be in my rack by now, i.e., Ref 70/200.7, I too would find it totally unsatisfactory and straining my patience.
I am sure my consoling with you all is of little consequence. I think, FWIW, bob53's perspective is spot on. It just doesn't make sense that B&K would be as schizophrenic as to produce the quality of products that attracts us and then leave us so disappointed as to drive us to seek another solution without some justification. What I find perplexing is how clueless they are about communicating with their customers. Who's at the helm there?
Notwithstanding what bob53 intimates, there are ways to maintain rapport with their customer base that shows some consideration for what loyal customers have been patiently waiting for that is being offered by other brands (even if problematic).
I, 41, am patiently waiting and saving. And like others have expressed I find B&K's deafening silence hard to countenance even in the best light of what they may have to contend with. Though I am sympathetic with both the customer's conundrum and the manufacturer's challenges.
My imagination is prompting me to revision what might be possible, i.e., Classe or other high quality brands. But there's a part of me still holding to the vision of B&K for my HT.
I am sure "They" are reading this thread. Or should be IMO. Time for customer relations to connect in a meaningful way with customers and those desirous of becoming a customer.
Are you listening B&K? Excuse me for my OT post. Mean well...
Best,
Richard

I think what is also deafening is the silence by the dealers who touted the Ref.70 on this forum who now have become oh so silent.
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post #390 of 1410 Old 06-14-2009, 07:52 PM
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I think what is also deafening is the silence by the dealers who touted the Ref.70 on this forum who now have become oh so silent.

I was hoping to hear from SteveH, by now, who recently offered to supply us with a channel of communication and perspective. Sincerity is measured by time (not referring to SteveH). Perhaps B&K is caught in the middle of changing technology and suppliers of technology who have no loyal customer base, extensive R&D and whose perspective and time frames are wholly different from that of B&K or our expectations of what is acceptable.

Should a healthy dose of upgrades that perform excellently suddenly issue from B&K, I am imagining we will suddenly develop a mild case of amnesia as the antidote for the tiresome waiting game and bouts of disappointments.

The folks at Oppo, for example, certainly know how to attract early adopters and keep their growing customer base informed. B&K's behavior remains perplexing.
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