Moment of Truth: Denon vs. Mcintosh - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 33 Old 11-07-2008, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
cararte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi
Guys lte face the moment of truth and please tell everyone you experience with the following setups:

DENON: AVP-A1HD Pre-amplifier + POA-A1HD Power Amplifier
VS.
MCINTOSH: MX-136 Sound Processor + Mcintosh MC402 (2 channel) + MC303 (3 Channel)

In terms of Home Theater, witch set has the best performance and pure audio without losses?
I love this 2 setups, i would like to thing very good before going ahead...
cararte is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 33 Old 11-07-2008, 07:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LEVESQUE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,019
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Between those 2, definitely the Denon set-up.

You should also consider the upcoming Anthem D2v2 in the same price range with the Denon.
LEVESQUE is offline  
post #3 of 33 Old 11-07-2008, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
cararte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Tank s for the opinion. I've heard the Mcintosh, and the guy from the store told me Mcntosh compared to Denon is like comparing Rolls Royce with Fiat.
I don't think it's like that of course, it's seller's talk, but i told him i want a dedicated Home Theater for movies, and he told me Mcintosh was far away the best.
Then i've heard it, i think it's good, but i think some "rocking" is missing...
Another thing, how can i decode the old Dolby ProLogic and AC3 with the Denon? Do i have to use an external sound processor or demolutator? (this is for Laserdisc)
cararte is offline  
post #4 of 33 Old 11-07-2008, 09:28 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,077
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 382 Post(s)
Liked: 1055
um, not to be flip, but you're considering $15K worth of Denon separates and you still have a laser disc player?? time to let that one die, receivers don't have the RF AC3 input anymore.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
post #5 of 33 Old 11-07-2008, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
cararte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I actually don't intend to give up on Laserdisc, i still love the format and i use high end gear like Pioneer HLD X0 and HLD X9, i love them.
Anyway there are few in the market that have AC3, the new Pioneer SC-LX90...Guess is not comparable to Denon because is integrated and lower quality.
OR maybe some of these days i find a Sound Processor with AC3 just for laserdisc, like Pioneer or something...
cararte is offline  
post #6 of 33 Old 11-07-2008, 10:05 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,077
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 382 Post(s)
Liked: 1055
I was just poking fun.... but, to be "future proof", you should probably just find a solid old external AC3 sound processor, I'm sure there are inexpensive but excellent used models floating around out there.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
post #7 of 33 Old 11-07-2008, 10:23 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

um, not to be flip, but you're considering $15K worth of Denon separates and you still have a laser disc player?? time to let that one die, receivers don't have the RF AC3 input anymore.

Of course you were poking fun.... But, also LD still plays very well in the multi-source environment with HD thrown in as well.

Speaking as one that still cheerishes his LD collection. I also of course have HDTV, HD-DVD, and Blu-ray. My little stand alone AC3 demodulator works great still even with a decades use on it by the way.
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #8 of 33 Old 11-07-2008, 02:11 PM
 
DougWinsor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


MCINTOSH: MX-136

No audio over HDMI!

Quote:


but i told him i want a dedicated Home Theater for movies, and he told me Mcintosh was far away the best.

Wrong.
DougWinsor is offline  
post #9 of 33 Old 11-07-2008, 02:14 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I like Mcintosh well enough, I can't afford it though.
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #10 of 33 Old 11-07-2008, 03:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CruelInventions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 4,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 175
I've heard that there are still some titles that can only be found on laser disc, which would be another reason to keep the player around.

Mourning the disappearing usage of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
CruelInventions is offline  
post #11 of 33 Old 11-07-2008, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
cararte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey tank you so much for the reply everyone.
John tell me something, i don't know if you know how to advice me, but what is the best, to buy the Pioneer RF Demulator, or find a good sound processor that makes AC3?
From which Brands can i find a gret sound processor that can decode the Dolby Digital and Dolby Pro Logic and DTS for Laserdisc?
I've heard about the Mcintosh MSD4 and Mac3 Processors. Are there any better processors than this ones?
cararte is offline  
post #12 of 33 Old 11-08-2008, 06:35 PM
Member
 
$ithr32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hello,

I've had a chance to listen to and play with both units. I wouldn't go as far as saying comparing them is like Rolls Royce vs Fiat. The Denon amp is awesome, has loads of power ... but it's not a McIntosh The McIntosh holds its value the best, sounds fuller/warmer (though it depends on what your speakers have), and does not clip. Very low noise considering its quad-balancing feature. The MX136 does pass audio over HDMI, just not lossless. You can get a player to decode the formats and pass them over analog audio cable like DVD-A, I'd recommend checking out the Denon DVD3800BDCI. The MVP871 uses the Denon transport and display as the DVD2930CI. But that's where the comparision ends. The DVD3800BDCI will be you blu-ray, better DVD upscaling, and an analog section that's a little better than what was used on the DVD5930CI.

The Denon processor is a beast though and kills the McIntosh on features. Audyssey, Networking features, lossless audio ... McIntosh needs to step it up big time on their next processor!!! While I prefer the McIntosh sound and look overall, I think the Denon is a better deal. Way more features and it still sounds great, check out the review on it at audioholics.com. How about getting the Denon processor and McIntosh amps, best of both worlds?
$ithr32 is offline  
post #13 of 33 Old 11-09-2008, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
cararte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Tank you for sharing your precious experience.
However tell me something... I don't know if i'm one of very few who have this problem...but Denon, Mcintosh....those 2 brands are great for me, until one point...
Do i really have to buy a Mac3 or a MSD4 to play AC3 and DTS Laserdiscs? Isn't there any Mcintosh MX Series that can decode, Dolby Pro Logic, AC3 and DTS 5.1? Maybe MX-134 or something...
What about Parasound, is there the famous Halo C1 won't decode those signals?
cararte is offline  
post #14 of 33 Old 11-09-2008, 08:09 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Liked: 421
I know the Ada Cinema Reference has the built in rf demodulator, good luck finding it. I am selling my rhapsody but I don't know if it has the RF in it. I will look it up.
MKtheater is offline  
post #15 of 33 Old 11-09-2008, 08:15 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Liked: 421
The rhapsody does not have a demodulator.
MKtheater is offline  
post #16 of 33 Old 11-09-2008, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
cararte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I was checking on the Web the Ada Cinema Reference...it's gorgeous! Love that "strange remote".
Anyone has any idea where i can find a gold colour new unit?
For me this looks just like what i was looking for...a high end piece to decode every Laserdisc Sound.
Never heard of Ada before...Is this as much as High End as Mcintosh?
cararte is offline  
post #17 of 33 Old 11-09-2008, 09:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DonoMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,670
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Laserdisc is crap no matter how high-end your equipment is. It is composite format. Low resolution and not even the best comb filters can completely take the rainbowing and dot crawl out.

"Vintage" is good for wine, not for A/V equipment.

-Dan D.
DonoMan is offline  
post #18 of 33 Old 11-09-2008, 11:24 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,077
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 382 Post(s)
Liked: 1055
Quote:


those 2 brands are great for me, until one point...
Do i really have to buy a Mac3 or a MSD4 to play AC3 and DTS Laserdiscs?

again - you are considering dropping $10K+ on top-of-the-line HT gear and you are spending a second fretting the lack of support for the archaic audio capabilities of a format that died almost 10 years ago? just go find a used external demodulator and be done with it, and then go buy the gear you want.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
post #19 of 33 Old 11-09-2008, 11:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jostenmeat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
AVP, FTW!

 

 

jostenmeat is offline  
post #20 of 33 Old 11-09-2008, 02:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
B&W700guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,593
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonoMan View Post

Laserdisc is crap no matter how high-end your equipment is. It is composite format. Low resolution and not even the best comb filters can completely take the rainbowing and dot crawl out.

At least that CRAP had Full Bandwidth DTS!
B&W700guy is offline  
post #21 of 33 Old 11-10-2008, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
cararte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi
Yes i'm willing to spend money on the dead format you are talking about...
See taste of people may be different, and i personally still like Laserdisc very very much...
The ADA CINEMA REFERENCE is Ecxellent. I wish it was still possible to order one brand new.
cararte is offline  
post #22 of 33 Old 11-10-2008, 09:10 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Liked: 421
I used to own the McIntosh MX-132 and also the Cinema Reference. The Reference was better to me but the Mac was better looking. Another niece piece is the Meridian 861 but I don't know if it had RF. They still sell the reference but I don't know if the Mach 3 has the RF demodulator. They also sell a separate rf stand alone unit.
MKtheater is offline  
post #23 of 33 Old 11-10-2008, 09:45 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
JOHNnDENVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 13,377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Just buy a demodulator.

They have gotten icnreasingly more difficult to find, but I am sure they show up on the bay from time to time decently regularly.
JOHNnDENVER is offline  
post #24 of 33 Old 11-10-2008, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
cararte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
John i appreciatte your opinion...but i really prefer to buy an independent processor just for laserdisc...
I'm sure the Ada will perform better than just an RF Demulator connected to a new amp.
cararte is offline  
post #25 of 33 Old 11-10-2008, 11:29 AM
Senior Member
 
jm_etue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Mid-Michigan
Posts: 304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

um, not to be flip, but you're considering $15K worth of Denon separates and you still have a laser disc player?? time to let that one die, receivers don't have the RF AC3 input anymore.

Pioneer Elite Receiver:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krobar View Post

Yes, it is the Japanese version of the SC-09TX, it will be called SC-LX90 in Europe too. I was surprised to see AC3-RF on a new product but Pioneer have got all bases covered with this receiver and hopefully they will see increased sales from supporting both legacy connections and new (HDMI 1.3A).

jm_etue is offline  
post #26 of 33 Old 11-10-2008, 11:32 AM
Member
 
bikinpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 174
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by $ithr32 View Post

How about getting the Denon processor and McIntosh amps, best of both worlds?

This is actually the direction I'm looking at going in.

Mc's don't have lossless audio which is a bummer for BD watching. I do, however, love the Mc's amplifiers. So, I'm looking at using a denon pre and a mc amp.
Would also cut the cost down a bit.
bikinpunk is offline  
post #27 of 33 Old 11-10-2008, 12:31 PM
Member
 
zeejayzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That's what I did. I have the AVP and a pair of MC-501 amps. I found the AVP to have amazing control, but the sound quality was too thin / harsh for me. After adding the Macs, the sound just exploded, totally complimentary. I personally have never heard better sounding amps than the Macs, norhave I ever seen more contorl capabilities than the Denon.
zeejayzee is offline  
post #28 of 33 Old 11-10-2008, 01:02 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
MKtheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Hartford, NY
Posts: 14,358
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 158 Post(s)
Liked: 421
I have been told by some people that they like the WYRED4SOUND amp better than the MC-501 amps.
MKtheater is offline  
post #29 of 33 Old 11-11-2008, 10:43 AM
 
DougWinsor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


The MX136 does pass audio over HDMI, just not lossless.

Wrong, it is video only and no audio.

http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-pr...amplifier.html

Quote:


You can get a player to decode the formats and pass them over analog audio cable like DVD-A,

Then what would be the point of the mcintosh, it would be nothing but a high priced volume control.

Quote:


The MVP871 uses the Denon transport and display as the DVD2930CI. But that's where the comparision ends.

No that is what they want you to think, plus you would be using a digital connection so what would be the point of a 871?
DougWinsor is offline  
post #30 of 33 Old 11-11-2008, 04:21 PM
Member
 
focker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a Pioneer SC-07 that is my pre with the new McIntosh MC303 for my amp. I will have everything set up with photos next week when my new entertainment center is finished. (the setup is running with B&W 803D speakers).

Scott
focker is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off