Onkyo PR-SC886P Pre/Pro Official thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 3245 Old 12-27-2008, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

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If you are asking about audible differences from different parts, passive parts matter, including the types of coupling capacitors and resistors that are used in audio circuits. I have not seen a circuit diagram for the 886, but past Onkyo, Integra, and Integra Research products have been strewn with low cost op amps and electrolytic coupling capacitors. Many mod shops start with swapping out these parts, along with new diodes, regulators, wires, etc.

This is largely where Dave Schulte makes replacements in the parts particularly in the Onkyo/Integra Pre/Pro amps. He does work heavily however in the area of shielding and reducing noise. As a result, in part the equipment that he works on has tremendous amounts of clarity along with other attributes including bass, imaging, highs, mids, body, depth, soundstage, etc.

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post #182 of 3245 Old 12-27-2008, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Nope. In the analog only mode, the signal passes through an analog input stage and an analog volume control which is not shared by the digital inputs. Only the analog output stage is common to the two.

No, the digital inputs go through the DSP block (bypassed for DSD direct), then the PCM1796 DACs, with about 5 op-amps per channel (5532s) devoted to I-V and VLSC filtering, then to the analog switching array, then an op-amp buffer, then to the CS3318 volume control, then to the outputs and the balanced output board. On the analog side the signal goes through an op-amp buffer, into a switching array, through another op-amp buffer, through a switching array, through an op-amp buffer, through the the CS3318 volume control, to the outputs and the balanced output board. I believe there are more analog ICs in the digital side than on the analog side, though the analog side does go through two analog switching arrays.

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post #183 of 3245 Old 12-27-2008, 10:17 PM
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I would like to second the request to take further discussion of the services of Dave Schulte out of this thread.

While I do not doubt the motives of naturephoto1, this feels a bit like a sale pitch, and I think it belongs in a thread where people who are interested in these kinds of mods can discuss them. I for one just want to get more information on how the "stock" 886 works and sounds.

JMHO.

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post #184 of 3245 Old 12-27-2008, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

not sure why you are not seeing your volume read out.....i have all my sources as passthrough currently and they all see the OSD volume, etc.

I need to do more testing, but I think whenever I'm watching a 1080p/24 signal, I am not seeing the volume OSD. Sometimes, during the opening logo sequences (e.g., the studio names) or the disc splash screen, I still get the volume OSD. But I have confirmed that it goes away, at least for a few of my HD discs once the movie starts playing.

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post #185 of 3245 Old 12-27-2008, 10:26 PM
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Is there general agreement that there is no downside to using one of the sound modes to turn 5.1 channel TrueHD, DD+ and DTS-MA soundtracks into 7.1? Have people done the testing and concluded that the implementations of the various sounds processing options are good enough to not degrade the fidelity and impact of the original signal?

If so, which options for getting to 7.1 are people's favorites? I'm hoping there are only a few front runners for me to experiment with (maybe PLIIX and THX Ultra2)?

What do you think?

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post #186 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 05:45 AM
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For all Dolby TrueHD 5.1 and DTS-HD 5.1 soundtracks I use Ultra2 Cinema to switch it to 7.1. It sounds excellent and envelopes the room perfectly. If I have a DTS-HD 7.1 soundtrack then I just leave it and let it do its magic...

The volume does not show up for 1080p/24 which to me is good because when I am watching a movie I do not want my guests to see a Volume indicator on the screen. But that's just me... I don't mind it for DirecTV though...

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post #187 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 05:50 AM
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Oh and for some crazy reason I think naturephoto1 gets a finder's fee for every sucker he sends them from AVS... Of course that's just me again...

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post #188 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNebraska View Post

I would like to second the request to take further discussion of the services of Dave Schulte out of this thread.

While I do not doubt the motives of naturephoto1, this feels a bit like a sale pitch, and I think it belongs in a thread where people who are interested in these kinds of mods can discuss them. I for one just want to get more information on how the "stock" 886 works and sounds.

JMHO.

I have opened a new thread and I have posted the link in this thread already. But people have not take the hint. I am sorry about that.

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post #189 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 07:34 AM
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I am sorry you are desperate to send them business!

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post #190 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 08:08 AM
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And I also wonder what warranty effect you would encounter if you had an issue after getting back your 886/885 or whatever you would send out? I would hate to have to go thru that.

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post #191 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naturephoto1 View Post

I have opened a new thread and I have posted the link in this thread already. But people have not take the hint. I am sorry about that.

Rich

Maybe it's you that haven't taken the hint...
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post #192 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 08:42 AM
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He sent me a PM explaining how he does not receive any compensation. Like we were born yesterday. I am sure he gets great discounts at the very least when he sends in his vaccum cleaners to be upgraded...

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post #193 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 09:11 AM
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Back on topic... I am expecting another terrific NFL day with the 886. I will play around with the sound modes again today... Should be fun.

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post #194 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

He sent me a PM explaining how he does not receive any compensation. Like we were born yesterday. I am sure he gets great discounts at the very least when he sends in his vaccum cleaners to be upgraded...

I get the same price as every one else.

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post #195 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 09:20 AM
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You deserve much more than a Christmas card then.

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post #196 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 09:22 AM
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You deserve much more than a Christmas card then.

I did get one of those though.

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post #197 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 09:44 AM
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Maybe it's you that haven't taken the hint...

Speak for yourself, John. Just because you are not interested doesn't mean others aren't.

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post #198 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 09:45 AM
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He sent me a PM explaining how he does not receive any compensation. Like we were born yesterday. I am sure he gets great discounts at the very least when he sends in his vaccum cleaners to be upgraded...

Enough.

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post #199 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

No, the digital inputs go through the DSP block (bypassed for DSD direct), then the PCM1796 DACs, with about 5 op-amps per channel (5532s) devoted to I-V and VLSC filtering, then to the analog switching array, then an op-amp buffer, then to the CS3318 volume control, then to the outputs and the balanced output board. On the analog side the signal goes through an op-amp buffer, into a switching array, through another op-amp buffer, through a switching array, through an op-amp buffer, through the the CS3318 volume control, to the outputs and the balanced output board. I believe there are more analog ICs in the digital side than on the analog side, though the analog side does go through two analog switching arrays.

I don't know what happened to my original reply but the fact that they pass through different stages and that I perceive a difference is sufficient for me. It is entirely possible that Integra put more effort into the analog portions of the digital signal path and into the obligatory analog outputs than they put into the analog inputs. 5532s are no longer 'cutting edge' but, if used properly, they are entirely adequate for this level of equipment.

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post #200 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffNebraska View Post

Is there general agreement that there is no downside to using one of the sound modes to turn 5.1 channel TrueHD, DD+ and DTS-MA soundtracks into 7.1? Have people done the testing and concluded that the implementations of the various sounds processing options are good enough to not degrade the fidelity and impact of the original signal?

If so, which options for getting to 7.1 are people's favorites? I'm hoping there are only a few front runners for me to experiment with (maybe PLIIX and THX Ultra2)?

What do you think?

I've found DPLIIx to be the closest to what I'm used to hearing in a cinema EX setup...

I'm personally not a huge fan of the THX modes, though, so you're milage might vary... try both, and make sure you have your ASA setup at the correct distance.
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post #201 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I don't know what happened to my original reply but the fact that they pass through different stages and that I perceive a difference is sufficient for me. It is entirely possible that Integra put more effort into the analog portions of the digital signal path and into the obligatory analog outputs than they put into the analog inputs. 5532s are no longer 'cutting edge' but, if used properly, they are entirely adequate for this level of equipment.

Yes, the NE5532 is a cheap, low noise, low distortion op-amp that can drive difficult loads, and still finds favor with some audio designers. I have not seen the schematic of the DHC-9.9. But looking at the circuits of the DTC-9.8, the RDC-7 and RDC-7.1, I would suggest that the Onkyo designers didn't invest more effort in the analog part of digital path. Rather, they take a one size fits all approach to analog design. In the 9.8 this means they use NE5532s exclusively, in unit-gain buffers and in gain elements and analog filters, and couple them with electrolytic capacitors.

Not much differentiates the Onkyo/Integra surround sound processors digitally from some very high end components. If anything, they put more money in this area than higher-priced competitors, who skimp on DSPs and therefore lack the horsepower for some tasks like loudspeaker/room correction. Only the folks who write their own code for digital filters and the like (e.g. Meridian with its new apodizing filter) have a better digital front end. The DACs are certainly capable, and not a clear impediment to high-end sound.

So arguably what keeps the Onkyo/Integra designs from truly great sound is the analog design. Although a complete redesign of the analog circuitry is beyond what most mod companies can do, and beyond what most folks would pay for, it may be that much could be gained by simply replacing some of the parts in the analog paths. But of course the problem is in knowing whether the changes wrought by these part-swapping companies are truly for the better.

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post #202 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

Yes, the NE5532 is a cheap, low noise, low distortion op-amp that can drive difficult loads, and still finds favor with some audio designers. I have not seen the schematic of the DHC-9.9. But looking at the circuits of the DTC-9.8, the RDC-7 and RDC-7.1, I would suggest that the Onkyo designers didn't invest more effort in the analog part of digital path. Rather, they take a one size fits all approach to analog design. In the 9.8 this means they use NE5532s exclusively, in unit-gain buffers and in gain elements and analog filters, and couple them with electrolytic capacitors.

Not much differentiates the Onkyo/Integra surround sound processors digitally from some very high end components. If anything, they put more money in this area than higher-priced competitors, who skimp on DSPs and therefore lack the horsepower for some tasks like loudspeaker/room correction. Only the folks who write their own code for digital filters and the like (e.g. Meridian with its new apodizing filter) have a better digital front end. The DACs are certainly capable, and not a clear impediment to high-end sound.

So arguably what keeps the Onkyo/Integra designs from truly great sound is the analog design. Although a complete redesign of the analog circuitry is beyond what most mod companies can do, and beyond what most folks would pay for, it may be that much could be gained by simply replacing some of the parts in the analog paths. But of course the problem is in knowing whether the changes wrought by these part-swapping companies are truly for the better.

No argument with any of that from me.

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post #203 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 02:13 PM
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I live in FL, and I got a quote from a local dealer for the Integra DHC 9.9 for ~$1550. Is that a good price? However, I like the look of the PR-SC886P better. Anyone know where is the best price for the 886 and how much. thanks very much.
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post #204 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 03:01 PM
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Not supposed to discuss pricing here. I would go for the 886 personally though. Actually I already did. Steve, don't post ENOUGH to me. If you want to be a sucker than by all means be a sucker...

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post #205 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 03:13 PM
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Steve, don't post ENOUGH to me. If you want to be a sucker than by all means be a sucker...

Enough of the personal attacks. If you actually know anything about the subject of circuit design and parts choice, which is as yet unclear, you could explain your beliefs. Otherwise, calling someone a sucker or suggesting they've been paid for their posts is, um, unhelpful.

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post #206 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 04:48 PM
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I have had my fair share of units opened. And telling people or selling them on Quantum Purifiers is absolute B.S. Another warning flag is the fact that they don't disclose exactly what they do. If someone is coming here trying to extract $1000.00 plus shipping for snake oil then you better believe they are open for personal attacks. I don't have to remind you of my position when it comes to taking up a worthy cause. He had less than 10 posts when he started selling this Upgrade B.S. company. He has also tried selling it on other forums. Onkyo will not accept any units that have been modified or opened for their Warranty policy. So to explain my beliefs I don't believe in ferry dust...

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post #207 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 07:13 PM
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Fairy dust? Some of what is done by some of these folks is questionable, though its fairly common for audio manufacturers, even some of high repute, not to say what's in the box. But again, do you know anything about the subject of analog audio design (that is, other than seemingly knowing how to open something up and look inside)?

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post #208 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 08:20 PM
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I think we found another "sucker"- I mean customer...

I wouldn't question my knowledge of what is inside the box. You obviously don't know who I am here....

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post #209 of 3245 Old 12-28-2008, 11:22 PM
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I think we found another "sucker"- I mean customer...

I wouldn't question my knowledge of what is inside the box. You obviously don't know who I am here....

No, I'm not a sucker or even a likely buyer of most mods. I have a good sense of what many of these entail, since I was one of the first to do this long ago. As for your knowledge, I've seen a lot of your posts, but nothing showing any particular or notable knowledge on any subject. Enlighten me.

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post #210 of 3245 Old 12-29-2008, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Joe and Steve,

please take this to the dave schutle thread. two pages of this nonsense on a 886 thread is enough, dont you think?!

thank you.
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