Cary Cinema 11a official thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1426 Old 11-27-2008, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterrudy View Post

I had the same problem which resolved after sticking a 1gb USB stick in the back of the unit. Try it and let us know

Peter

Yes.. that's solve the iron man startup problem...
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post #92 of 1426 Old 11-27-2008, 08:36 PM
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Hi..

About the speaker In phase and Out phase setting up..

when I switch between In and Out phase for the FL speaker, there is a pop sound going to the FR speaker.. (FL speaker has no pop sound)...

this happen to all other channels too. the pop sound always going from the right side speakers (FR, SR, SBR) when setting up the Left side speakers.

is this normal ?
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post #93 of 1426 Old 11-27-2008, 09:02 PM
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I would suggest calling Cary's tech support line and/or emailing them. They don't check this forum very often.
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post #94 of 1426 Old 11-27-2008, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucupa View Post

Hi Jason, I'm using the Cinema 11a with Cary Amp 7.250. There is a noise coming out of the amp that sounds like a refrigerator humming noise. Is this normal ?

If I am not much mistaken, this is a class D amp.
Switch mode supplies/stages generally produce high frequency noise that is very annoying. This is the nature of class D principle, however some amps are worse than others. Is it propagating along the cables to your speakers or is it just coming from the unit itself?

Cary Cinema 11a 08 - V1.08 HDMI & Audio onboard
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post #95 of 1426 Old 11-27-2008, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

My understanding is that PLIIx can be applied to HBR formats. This comes direct from Cary.

Thanks Eric ; a few avr's [ONK 605] lacking as you know . Ive got 'We were soldiers' with a dts hd hr 7.1 soundtrack here ; being lossy Ile try that with PL11X as well and see what happens .

Not being 5.1 Ide imagine PL11X wouldnt be applied. Not that it matters
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post #96 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreman View Post

If I am not much mistaken, this is a class D amp.
Switch mode supplies/stages generally produce high frequency noise that is very annoying. This is the nature of class D principle, however some amps are worse than others. Is it propagating along the cables to your speakers or is it just coming from the unit itself?

Its a class a/b design Extreman . Hum problems are difficult to isolate . If your house has seperate circuits Sukij ;try putting your system on a seperate supply to the fridge/washing machine etc [fridge compressors /air conditioners can be problematic].

Unplug the power amp from your power board and plug it directly into an ac outlet ; If all else fails turn on one appliance at a time and isolate the problem [if you havent tried this allready]
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post #97 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwt View Post

Its a class a/b design Extreman . Hum problems are difficult to isolate . If your house has seperate circuits Sukij ;try putting your system on a seperate supply to the fridge/washing machine etc [fridge compressors /air conditioners can be problematic].

Unplug the power amp from your power board and plug it directly into an ac outlet ; If all else fails turn on one appliance at a time and isolate the problem [if you havent tried this allready]

Okey - my bad.

If it is noise from the fridge/washing machine, my advice is just to leave it unplugged. Heck, you have to do at least some sacrifices having a hobby like this!

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post #98 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Extreman View Post

Okey - my bad.

If it is noise from the fridge/washing machine, my advice is just to leave it unplugged. Heck, you have to do at least some sacrifices having a hobby like this!

Should not be Air-Con.. because I shut all down.. but I have 2 fridges.. may be I try to shut them down.. too.. not too difficult to test... but how come my low-end yamaha recv.. never pick the noise.!!
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post #99 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukij View Post

Should not be Air-Con.. because I shut all down.. but I have 2 fridges.. may be I try to shut them down.. too.. not too difficult to test... but how come my low-end yamaha recv.. never pick the noise.!!

If you locate the source, try to install ferrite cores on the noisy appliance.

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post #100 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

Sounds like a ground loop issue which is not a Cary problem. Google it or use the AVSForum search function to look for how to proceed.

The humming noise is from the 7.250 amp itself, is this fan noise ? I never had any audio system that has fan noise before.
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post #101 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucupa View Post

The humming noise is from the 7.250 amp itself, is this fan noise ? I never had any audio system that has fan noise before.

The sound you hear is probably from the transformer. In some cases the transformer can vibrate with the same frequency as your power grid. 50Hz where I live. The noise can be either constant or variable in volume and intencity.

I have that problem with my Cinema 5. I did notice this on occation, but after I bought a new TV I have the problem all the time. I have yet to solve the problem. What I do know is:
- There is nothing wrong with the unit. I tried a different unit, and it had the same problem.
- It is not ground related. Have tried to attach the unit grounded and ungrouned.
- A simple power cleaner does not help.
- DC current is present on the power grid.

There used to be product called Humbuster, but this is however discontinued. If there is another product that does the thing I would like to know about it.
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post #102 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 07:20 AM
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Humming noise...

This might sound odd but it is easy to try.

Once your system is powered up just try disconnecting the audio input side (not just unplugging the AC) of your sources to the C11a. Many times I have found that the hum is coming from a Cable or Sat box where the incoming cable is not grounded properly.

Next, is you amp and preamp on the same AC circuit? If not it should be IMHO if that means anything to anyone here but me.

Moving on to speaker crackling. I recall you have isolated it to ALL right channel speakers (Right main, Right surround and Right rear). I'd swith output/input cables for the C11a to your amp. If the problem moves to the LEFT it is your interconnects or your C11a. If the problem stays with the speaker it is your amp. Make sense? Also make sure you have the speaker connected properly at the amp and speaker. Sounds simple I known but...

See JB I still got your back bro!

Mike Miles

ICR [ Sales Consulting and Small Part-Time AV shop, very small...  ]

Process Integration, Inc. [ contract sales consultant ]

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post #103 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robolsn View Post

The sound you hear is probably from the transformer. In some cases the transformer can vibrate with the same frequency as your power grid. 50Hz where I live. The noise can be either constant or variable in volume and intencity.

There used to be product called Humbuster, but this is however discontinued. If there is another product that does the thing I would like to know about it.

The Humbuster is still available from PS Audio and removes the DC from the AC line which can causes toroidal transformers to hum or buzz.

Here's the link: http://www.psaudio.com/products/humbustermoreinfo.asp
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post #104 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doyle View Post

The Humbuster is still available from PS Audio and removes the DC from the AC line which can causes toroidal transformers to hum or buzz.

Here's the link: http://www.psaudio.com/products/humbustermoreinfo.asp

Hi,
Thanks for the reply
Unfortunately, if you look closer you will find that the product is listed under Product Archives. I also recall a thread from another forum that which stated that the product had in fact been discontinued. The source was an e-mail from the manufacturer. On the the upside, the same source said that there will be a new product taking over for the Humbuster.

I will send them an e-mail and ask what is going on some day.

Enough about that. This was way off topic. I want to hear about some more user experience with the new 11a. I own the original 11 and are thinking about upgrading.
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post #105 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwt View Post

Thanks Eric ; a few avr's [ONK 605] lacking as you know . Ive got 'We were soldiers' with a dts hd hr 7.1 soundtrack here ; being lossy Ile try that with PL11X as well and see what happens .

Not being 5.1 Ide imagine PL11X wouldnt be applied. Not that it matters

As far as I know the blu ray We were soldiers has Dolby Digital Surround EX (encoded at a full 1.5mbps) and DTS 5.1 surround tracks. It does not have DTSHD tracks.
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post #106 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 12:46 PM
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Thank you all for the tips regarding the amp (transformer) noise.
The Cinema 11a sound great with movies. For music however, I still need to tweak it a little bit. It sounds kind of flat and way too laid back to my taste. I did manual setup, but still need to calibrate Room EQ to get the music sounds right.
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post #107 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robolsn View Post

Hi,
I want to hear about some more user experience with the new 11a. I own the original 11 and are thinking about upgrading.

Here is some preliminary information from the far north.
Connected it to my system tonight http://avforum.no/minhjemmekino/show.php/Distinctive but no setup has been made yet.
The hook-up went fine, even if my setup has become quite complex.

Pro's:
- The master bitstream audio are working (both DD True HD & DTS MA).
- The unit seems well built.
- The live concert feeling is awesome, still with no adjustments made.
- No apparent degradation of picture quality.

Cons:
- A bit slow when determining/locking onto the AV input format (no big deal, but irritating when just switching channels on my decoder when watching TV).
- The HDMI ports are positioned a bit close. My Wireworld HDMI cables are having a tight fit - a bit too tight I would say, but I have the same problem on my Kuro.
- Schuko or UK power plug (european outlet type) not included.
- My XLR cables are too short, cause the outputs are on the 'wrong side' compared with my inputs on my 6ch. Pre. I guess there is no standard layout for this (?)
- Bigger and better drawings of the back panel would be helpful during connection. It is hard to identify all ports and cables when it is in its final location.

And then we are left with the big issue:
When searching for input format, a lot of crackling sounds are heard. Also when the volume is adjusted on the C11a, I hear a lot of popping coming from the speakers - and in particular from the right rear speaker (also when no sound is output). This one also sound distorted sometimes when active. Setting the HDMI port to bitstream or PCM seems not to have any effect. I have also verified the format of the source.
It seems I better check my cables and read the manual over again, before giving any thumbs down on this matter. I don't rule out fingertrouble so troubleshooting are in place on settings and defective cabling.
I am not sure whether this is the famous HDMI switching noise discussed earlier.

I will have some more time playing around with it tomorrow.

Are your units completely silent when operating it, searcing for formats or during playback?

Cary Cinema 11a 08 - V1.08 HDMI & Audio onboard
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post #108 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 01:08 PM
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Yeah it does exhibit a mild popping (crackling) sound through some speakers when switching inputs, and when doing some other stuff (I forgot what else), but it doesn't bother me that much
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post #109 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreman View Post

..... Also when the volume is adjusted on the C11a, I hear a lot of popping coming from the speakers - and in particular from the right rear speaker (also when no sound is output).

This particular issue doesn't happen to my unit at all.
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post #110 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreman View Post

And then we are left with the big issue:
When searching for input format, a lot of crackling sounds are heard. Also when the volume is adjusted on the C11a, I hear a lot of popping coming from the speakers - and in particular from the right rear speaker (also when no sound is output). This one also sound distorted sometimes when active. Setting the HDMI port to bitstream or PCM seems not to have any effect. I have also verified the format of the source.
It seems I better check my cables and read the manual over again, before giving any thumbs down on this matter. I don't rule out fingertrouble so troubleshooting are in place on settings and defective cabling.
I am not sure whether this is the famous HDMI switching noise discussed earlier.

I will have some more time playing around with it tomorrow.

Are your units completely silent when operating it, searcing for formats or during playback?

Have you tried to disable RoomEQ? The RoomEQ on my original Cinema 11 completely messes up the sound.
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post #111 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robolsn View Post

Have you tried to disable RoomEQ? The RoomEQ on my original Cinema 11 completely messes up the sound.

I can confirm that EQ is off.

Dist

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post #112 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreman View Post

And then we are left with the big issue:
When searching for input format, a lot of crackling sounds are heard. Also when the volume is adjusted on the C11a, I hear a lot of popping coming from the speakers - and in particular from the right rear speaker (also when no sound is output). This one also sound distorted sometimes when active. Setting the HDMI port to bitstream or PCM seems not to have any effect. I have also verified the format of the source.

Are your units completely silent when operating it, searcing for formats or during playback?

My unit is completely silent when operating. I do get a faint little crackle in my mains when changing inputs or changing channels on the TV. I believe this was also common with the original 11. Adjusting the volume adds no noise what so ever to any of the speakers.

My big issue is with using the digital inputs from my CD player. The beginning few seconds of every track gets cut off if there is any silence from the track before. The beginning of the first track always gets cut off. This pretty much makes using the 11a as a DAC useless and prevents the use of the crossover for 2 channel.
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post #113 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmike186 View Post

My unit is completely silent when operating. I do get a faint little crackle in my mains when changing inputs or changing channels on the TV. I believe this was also common with the original 11. Adjusting the volume adds no noise what so ever to any of the speakers.

My big issue is with using the digital inputs from my CD player. The beginning few seconds of every track gets cut off if there is any silence from the track before. The beginning of the first track always gets cut off. This pretty much makes using the 11a as a DAC useless and prevents the use of the crossover for 2 channel.

Hmmmm.....
I interchanged the signal cables.
The problem now moved to left rear speaker.
This means that it is the C11a SR output or associated HDMI feed (audio ripping) that causes the problem.
Actually, I sometimes get no sound at all from this speaker and this one is the only one that gives pop sound during volume adjustment.
So far I have had no issues with other than the unstable HDMI ports.
I am using an Oppo HDMI switch with IO sense. I suspect there is a duplex comms. problem since the order of powering up equipment matters for both sound and picture.
For the BD however I bypass this switch for optimum performance but the issue still remains.
Also the display shows divergating info. (e.g. I have live picture on my TV and C11a display sometimes (momentarely lag) says 'no input').

I am about to try Toslink and S/PDIF.
I will also interchange HDMI cable. Checking for bad contact did not solve it satisfactory.
This should conclude on the HDMI issue.

Post note:
Toslink had the same issue.
I think then that HDMI is OK, which is a relief, however the problem is still originating from the Cary.

Cary Cinema 11a 08 - V1.08 HDMI & Audio onboard
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post #114 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Carroll View Post

I would suggest calling Cary's tech support line and/or emailing them.

Good suggestion. The few times that I've called Cary I've gotten thru and gotten meaningful response.

Quote:


They don't check this forum very often.

IMO, odds are you are wrong on that.

How much do you want to bet, and at what odds?

Cheers
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post #115 of 1426 Old 11-28-2008, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterrudy View Post

As far as I know the blu ray We were soldiers has Dolby Digital Surround EX (encoded at a full 1.5mbps) and DTS 5.1 surround tracks. It does not have DTSHD tracks.

Hi peterrudy ; the key word was 'here' ; not in America ; you would be surprised at the discrepancies in audio we get due to different authoring . 'We were soldiers' is a case in point; mine has dts-hd hr audio and plain dd5.1[no ex]
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post #116 of 1426 Old 11-29-2008, 02:22 AM
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A bit late yesterday evening, I guess
After some sleep and some structured troubleshooting everything is now OK, despite the small issues with swithing noise that I guess most of you are having.

I use a 5.1 and not a 7.1 system.
The source is 5.1, so I have to use the SBR/SBL and not the SL/SR outputs.
I made it right the first time actually, but I believe I must have set the Audio to 3.1 cause there were no sound on the rear speakers. However, then I would have expected no sound in the SL/SR outputs either, but they worked(?) so I left it there. I reckon that the outputs with no inputs assigned to it produces a lot of noise and unpredicted issues.

I am left with one question, though.
How come that there are 7.1 sound with 5.1 input when no form for EQ is used ?
I would then expect that the SL/SR were dead silent?

Sorry for all the fuzz. This was a great relief.

Cary Cinema 11a 08 - V1.08 HDMI & Audio onboard
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post #117 of 1426 Old 11-29-2008, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwt View Post

Hi peterrudy ; the key word was 'here' ; not in America ; you would be surprised at the discrepancies in audio we get due to different authoring . 'We were soldiers' is a case in point; mine has dts-hd hr audio and plain dd5.1[no ex]

thanks for the update. I will try to get that disc on ebay ( I hope it is region1).

My 11A has a tracking number and I am getting it next tuesday. I hope I don't find all these popping/ crunching sounds other users are describing.
I never see much difference with Eq in my HT room for some reason with Integra DTC 9.8, so I am not even going to turn eq on for 11A.

My question to users who already got chance to play with their units is-- Is there a delay in locking on to the signal when changing SAT channels, skip DVD chapters etc? DTC 9.8 had this problem which was resolved with 1.7 update.

I read few user impressions about hard ware issues but I still haven't heard one person saying if 11A sounds better than any unit it replaced. A brand/model name (Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha or Integra or Anthem) would be nice to see some positive impressions.
I am kind of scared now that no one finds it awesome after 1 year wait time. I am yet to see a rave review about 2 channel and multi channel audio performance.

I had so much free time this thanksgiving to play with it but, still eagerly waiting for the UPS delivery!

Peter
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post #118 of 1426 Old 11-29-2008, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterrudy View Post

My question to users who already got chance to play with their units is-- Is there a delay in locking on to the signal when changing SAT channels, skip DVD chapters etc? DTC 9.8 had this problem which was resolved with 1.7 update.

I am kind of scared now that no one finds it awesome after 1 year wait time. I am yet to see a rave review about 2 channel and multi channel audio performance.

Peter

There is a delay when changing channels on my comcast cable box. The picture blanks out for a second also but not terribly long. I just might run my hdmi straight to the tv and use the toslink and see how this works. No lip sinc issues and no problem with dvds or blurays though.

As for 2 channel music I think this unit is great. I use the balanced inputs from my cd player. I think it sounds just as good as my expensive 2 channel preamp so I sold the ol' Pass Labs pre. My first thought was to use the digital inputs and the dac on the Cary so I could use the bass management and sell my dedicated cd player. Still messing with the right crossover and sub volume so I will reserve judgment at this point. Besides the digital input cuts off the beginning few seconds of each track so even if I do get it dialed in it still would not be an option.

The 7.1 inputs are out of the world I love multichannel music so this was my main reason for getting the Cary. Porcupine Tree never sounded better
I know I have been complaining about the digital inputs but the the analog section is clearly the strength of this unit.

Added bonus would be regular Dolby Digital. Clearly better than my old HK and the new formats are that much better. Just have to make sure you have the source output and the Cary input set up correct. My Mat Methey The Way Up bluray sounds spectacular outputting DTS Master HD on my ps3 but sounds dull and lifeless outputting 2 channel pcm. I might have something not set right but I just may pick up a stand alone player that will do bitstream.
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post #119 of 1426 Old 11-29-2008, 08:01 AM
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Got my 11a yesterday and have played some movies already. Very happy so far, but have discovered that there is an issue to get 7.1 sound over HDMI from DD trueHD 5.1 bitstream or DTS-HD MA 5.1 bitstream.

I have a 7.1 system and I have not been able to get more than 5.1 sound if I send a 5.1 bitstream signal to the processor. But If I send a 5.1 LPCM signal I have found out that the PLIIx button can be used. Every time I press the PLIIx button the rear channels are turned on and off. The display however shows LPCM 5.1 all the time... The PLIIx button doesn't seem to work with Bitstream signals.

I have found that there are very many BD movies that only have 5.1 audio so it concerns me a little that it seems that I have to run LPCM to the Cinema 11a to get 7.1 audio from a 5.1 source and that I have to go back in the room and listen to the rear speakers to check if I need to press the PLIIx button.

Someone that has some input on this? Will there come a PLIIx equivalent for 5.1 bitstream signals?
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post #120 of 1426 Old 11-29-2008, 09:25 AM
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1. Does the Cinema 11a have analog volume control or digital?
2. What type of crossover (Linkwitz-Riley, Butterworth) and slope (12db/octave, 24db/octave) are used for the speaker crossovers?
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