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post #91 of 198 Old 11-24-2009, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

I wonder if these would be well suited to PSB Synchrony One towers... Any thoughts?

They are 4ohms but with 88db sensitivity you'd have to really crank on it to notice the difference between a pair of XPA-1s and one XPA-2.
Either amp can/will drive you to an early deaf.

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post #92 of 198 Old 11-24-2009, 11:17 AM
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I understand that as far as volume is concerned, but are there any other differences in sound quality? This is a predominately a home theater set-up so i will need more than two channels...
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post #93 of 198 Old 11-24-2009, 07:29 PM
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Thank you to strindl and Knucklehead90: I've done more investigating. It has to be the DirecTV.

I know I stated that I heard a slight hiss/hum when I had the PS3 hooked into my processor, but still had the HDMI input from the DirecTV connected to the processor too.

So, I took out the DirecTV HDMI cable from the processor - no hiss or hum from the PS3! My first hunch was the DirecTV. In the past, it's always seemed to be the cable video connectors that have caused any type of hum.

The hiss/hum I experience with DirecTV is so very slight. You don't hear it at normal listening volumes or at low volumes but at extremely (barely audible) and sitting close to the speakers, I've noticed this slight hiss.

I'm using the Onkyo 886 processor with balanced connectors to XPA-1s for the front 3 speakers.

So I am guessing that if I get the DirecTV grounded, then I'm on my way to find something else to be paranoid about?
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post #94 of 198 Old 12-20-2009, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

I understand that as far as volume is concerned, but are there any other differences in sound quality? This is a predominately a home theater set-up so i will need more than two channels...

Anyone???
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post #95 of 198 Old 12-20-2009, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

Anyone???

Your question is a bit incomplete. You ask about differences. Between the XPA-1 and what?

There could be sonic differences between the XPA-1 and another amp, but I missed where you mentioned another amp.

Amps sound more alike than different in my opinion, based on a number of blind listening tests that have been done.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #96 of 198 Old 12-20-2009, 03:39 PM
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Actually I was wondering if there are any real sonic or sound quality differences between the XPA-1, 2, and 5 when used in a HT 5.2 configuration. I know that if I am listening to two channel stereo, the XPA-5 will put out more than its 350 stated whats with my PSB Synchrony speakers. So, how does that translate to SQ or performance vs the stereo or mono Emotiva amps?

I have included a link to the PSB Synchrony site:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/Synchrony

and the Synchrony One towers:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/.../Synchrony-One

lastly, my CC speaker:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...ynchrony-One-C

Thanks
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post #97 of 198 Old 12-20-2009, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

Actually I was wondering if there are any real sonic or sound quality differences between the XPA-1, 2, and 5 when used in a HT 5.2 configuration. I know that if I am listening to two channel stereo, the XPA-5 will put out more than its 350 stated whats with my PSB Synchrony speakers. So, how does that translate to SQ or performance vs the stereo or mono Emotiva amps?

I have included a link to the PSB Synchrony site:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/Synchrony

and the Synchrony One towers:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/.../Synchrony-One

lastly, my CC speaker:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/...ynchrony-One-C

Thanks

There are differences in sound and capability between the XPA amps. The XPA-1, XPA-2, and XPA-5 were each designed with a specific purpose and they perform best when used for their designed purpose. That would mean that it would be better to use an XPA-2 or a pair of XPA-1's if you are driving a two channel system. While the XPA-5 uses the same 1200 VA toroidal transformer as the other two amps mentioned, that power is designed to be split between all 5 channels. If you use it in two channel mode and really push it to it's limit, you will be pushing more power through the power output stages of those two channels than the designers intended for long term durability.

The XPA-2 for example uses a 1200 VA toroidal transformer and 45,000uF of effective storage capacitence , along with 12 output devices per channel. The XPA-5 uses that same transformer with 60,000uF of storage capacitence and 6 output devices per channel. The XPA-1 again uses the same transformer but backs that up with 120,000uF of storage capacitence and 24 output devices per channel.
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post #98 of 198 Old 12-20-2009, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strindl View Post

There are differences in sound and capability between the XPA amps. The XPA-1, XPA-2, and XPA-5 were each designed with a specific purpose and they perform best when used for their designed purpose. That would mean that it would be better to use an XPA-2 or a pair of XPA-1's if you are driving a two channel system. While the XPA-5 uses the same 1200 VA toroidal transformer as the other two amps mentioned, that power is designed to be split between all 5 channels. If you use it in two channel mode and really push it to it's limit, you will be pushing more power through the power output stages of those two channels than the designers intended for long term durability.

The XPA-2 for example uses a 1200 VA toroidal transformer and 45,000uF of effective storage capacitence , along with 12 output devices per channel. The XPA-5 uses that same transformer with 60,000uF of storage capacitence and 6 output devices per channel. The XPA-1 again uses the same transformer but backs that up with 120,000uF of storage capacitence and 24 output devices per channel.

I should suggest that protection circuits and voltage supply rail limitations mean there should not be a real problem running two channels from the XPA-5 amp. What do you think happens when people are playing a stereo source with the XPA-5? I can't agree 100% with your assessment.

I am a bit lost of exactly what Jrunr whats. He's posting to multiple threads asking a lot of questions, so I sense some confusion maybe.

The XPA-5 should work fine for his needs, IF I understand his needs.

As for sonic differences between XPA amps, who knows. You would expect nearly identical circuit topologies with differences due to output devices, and power supply. Without careful listening tests, I would assume XPA amps sound a bit much the same.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #99 of 198 Old 12-20-2009, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

I should suggest that protection circuits and voltage supply rail limitations mean there should not be a real problem running two channels from the XPA-5 amp. What do you think happens when people are playing a stereo source with the XPA-5? I can't agree 100% with your assessment.

I am a bit lost of exactly what Jrunr whats. He's posting to multiple threads asking a lot of questions, so I sense some confusion maybe.

The XPA-5 should work fine for his needs, IF I understand his needs.

As for sonic differences between XPA amps, who knows. You would expect nearly identical circuit topologies with differences due to output devices, and power supply. Without careful listening tests, I would assume XPA amps sound a bit much the same.

For the normal user, an XPA-5 is fine being used in two channel mode ...HOWEVER...if you are someone who really pushes your amp in two channel mode to the limit on a regular basis, an XPA-5 is really not the right choice . While the power supply is capable of providing plenty of juice to those two channels...it does have more storage capacitence than an XPA-2 after all....you are pushing all of that power through 6 output devices per channel instead of the 12 per side in the XPA-2. That's probably not what the designers intended.
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post #100 of 198 Old 12-20-2009, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strindl View Post

For the normal user, an XPA-5 is fine being used in two channel mode ...HOWEVER...if you are someone who really pushes your amp in two channel mode to the limit on a regular basis, an XPA-5 is really not the right choice . While the power supply is capable of providing plenty of juice to those two channels...it does have more storage capacitence than an XPA-2 after all....you are pushing all of that power through 6 output devices per channel instead of the 12 per side in the XPA-2. That's probably not what the designers intended.

Well, I certainly hope the XPA-5 does not have the flaws you imply. I would not suggest it to anyone if it did.

While it's never good to drive you amp to the limit, it's the job of the amp maker to prevent over current conditions.

While I can't prove the XPA-5 is perfectly adequate for his uses, I don't think you can prove it's not, unless you have the service manual and have figured out how the protection circuits work, what the supply voltage is, what the limits are on the output devices, etc.

You would have to prove the supply voltage will not be limited, and is at it's limits dangerous to the output devices. A horrible design if true.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #101 of 198 Old 12-20-2009, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Well, I certainly hope the XPA-5 does not have the flaws you imply. I would not suggest it to anyone if it did.

While it's never good to drive you amp to the limit, it's the job of the amp maker to prevent over current conditions.

While I can't prove the XPA-5 is perfectly adequate for his uses, I don't think you can prove it's not, unless you have the service manual and have figured out how the protection circuits work, what the supply voltage is, what the limits are on the output devices, etc.

You would have to prove the supply voltage will not be limited, and is at it's limits dangerous to the output devices. A horrible design if true.

I wouldn't consider it a flaw in the XPA-5 design...any component is at it's best when used for the purpose it is intended for. I own a pair of XPA-1's, an XPA-2 and an XPA-5 and would recommend them wholeheartedly to anyone. An XPA-5 is not going to self destruct if used in a strictly two channel mode...it's pretty robustly constructed.....but it's life will probably not be as long if it was driven to it's limit's in two channel mode over long periods of time. Lonnie at Emotiva gave an explanation of that in the emotiva forums a couple weeks back. Let me see if I can go find and link that. He's certainly better at explaining it than I am.
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post #102 of 198 Old 12-20-2009, 06:03 PM
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Ok..here was Lonnie's reply in the thread on the emotiva forums:

Quote:


The short answer to the question is yes, you can use the amp with fewer channels running than what it was designed to do. As long as you stay within the power specs we state and give the amp plenty of air to cool, this won’t be an issue.

However………..

This is a question where the answer is both easy and complicated at the same time. You see when you use less than all five channels. All the energy of the power supply (well in excess of 1K watt) is directed at however many channels that are being used (which are designed to dissipate 300 watts RMS). This means the rail voltage on a specific channel goes up significantly which causes that channel to produce more heat (because it is dissipating more energy). Thus it is going to need adequate cooling to keep from stressing the channel(s). With the increased rail voltages you get more power and as long as you stay within the rated spec, no problem. But how do you know if you are within the rated spec? Honestly there isn’t any way for the average Joe to know without a lot of sophisticated gear to measure the output. So if you plan on driving the amp hard, you could over drive the module which isn’t good. But if you listen at a reasonable level, say something short of your ears bleeding then no problem. Honestly there are a lot of other things that should be considered, like the impedance curves of the speakers (how low do they dip), what other equipment is in the system (are they using an EQ with a lot of boost), etc. but we won’t go down those roads (not enough time). So there are a lot of factors involved in what we recommend and since we never seem to have all the information, I always tell everyone to err on the side safety. Stick with what the equipment was designed to do and everyone wins. I have told a lot of people that we don’t recommend using the multi-channel amps for strictly stereo or mono-block use. If you want a high power stereo or mono-block amp, then that is what you should buy. Using anything in a manner other than what it was designed for is never a good idea. ;D

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/i...ad=7639&page=2
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post #103 of 198 Old 12-20-2009, 06:45 PM
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That implies they run their rail voltage high to compensate for voltage drop under load, and have no limiter. I can understand the high rail voltage, but why does their limiter not compensate for the situation.

After all, even if you normally use the XPA-5 for movies, you certainly would use if for music too, and why should you worry about it?

I wonder if he considered the implications of his answer to buyers. I think it's just CYA myself for the majority of users, who will not have any issues using the XPA-5 for two channel music.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #104 of 198 Old 12-20-2009, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

That implies they run their rail voltage high to compensate for voltage drop under load, and have no limiter. I can understand the high rail voltage, but why does their limiter not compensate for the situation.

After all, even if you normally use the XPA-5 for movies, you certainly would use if for music too, and why should you worry about it?

I wonder if he considered the implications of his answer to buyers. I think it's just CYA myself for the majority of users, who will not have any issues using the XPA-5 for two channel music.

I use my XPA-5 to drive the 4 surround speakers in my main audio video system. I have one unused channel because I happened to have an unused Threshold S200 that I wanted to use to bi amp my B&W HTM center channel. My XPA-5 runs cool even after a heavy dose of movie dynamics.

I did try it out for a week or so when I first got it in two channel mode. Originally powering a pair of 4 ohm power hungry Magnepan 1.6qr's. I cranked it as loud as I wanted and even after hours of use, the amp was only warm..not hot. I also tried it out in two channel mode driving my main system speakers, a pair of very ineffcient 4 ohm Thiel 3.6's. Once again, it did a fine job and didn't get more than warm.

From that experience I conclude that it would take some real volume cranking on some real inefficient speakers to overdrive the amp modules in an XPA-5..even in 2 channel mode.

I use my XPA-1's on the Thiels now and they do sound noticably better than the XPA-5 on those speakers.
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post #105 of 198 Old 12-21-2009, 01:36 AM
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One thing to note, tbe XPA-5 can do 20x5 watts continuous power. Which means the output devices should be able to handle 200 watts continuous. If I read that post right, they can handle 300 watts continuous (multiple output devices spitting the load maybe.)

I think I understand what rep ( I think Lonnie is a rep?) is saying. But you have to deaf to sit in a room with more than 200 watts continuous being sent to your speakers.

If you have no concern for your hearing and have speakers that won't blow up under a continuous 200 watt load, with 90 dB of efficiency, if my numbers are right, the average SPL level would be over 110 dB (at one meter) with 200 watts. Peaks could be much higher.

So ok, while I think I understand what Lonnie is saying, I still think it's CYA and there is not much to be concerned about.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #106 of 198 Old 12-21-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

One thing to note, tbe XPA-5 can do 20x5 watts continuous power. Which means the output devices should be able to handle 200 watts continuous. If I read that post right, they can handle 300 watts continuous (multiple output devices spitting the load maybe.)

I think I understand what rep ( I think Lonnie is a rep?) is saying. But you have to deaf to sit in a room with more than 200 watts continuous being sent to your speakers.

If you have no concern for your hearing and have speakers that won't blow up under a continuous 200 watt load, with 90 dB of efficiency, if my numbers are right, the average SPL level would be over 110 dB (at one meter) with 200 watts. Peaks could be much higher.

So ok, while I think I understand what Lonnie is saying, I still think it's CYA and there is not much to be concerned about.

I agree with you that for the vast majority of users, they will never overdrive the output section of an XPA-5 using it in two channel mode. Anyone who does will be pretty much deaf in short order anyways. I think the point he was trying to make is that you are better off choosing an amp specifically designed for the use you intend to put it to. If you have a 5.1 system that doubles as your two channel system then an XPA-5 is a fine choice. If you have a system where the amp whill only be used in two channel mode, you're better off buying a two channel amp.

Lonnie is the general manager of Emotiva and the principle designer of their amps.
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post #107 of 198 Old 12-21-2009, 11:33 AM
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I thought the person asking the question wanted a general use amplifier for music and movies. And if the XPA-5 does not work well for that, it sucks, IMO

If he said "I primarily want rock concert levels for two channel listening," I would maybe have recommended the XPA-2. Anyway, I think between us, we presented all the salient points of the argument, which is a good thing

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #108 of 198 Old 12-21-2009, 01:54 PM
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Emotiva used to have the power output ratings for the XPA-5 in 4,3 , 2 and single channel operation as well as for all 5 channels. The 4 ohm power capability for the XPA-5 was listed as 450 watts per channel in two channel mode. That's a lot of power to push through 6 output devices per channel, and probably more than they were designed to handle on a long term basis.


The XPA-5's power supply is massive and certainly capable of doing that, but they took those ratings down, probably to avoid giving the impression that that type of use was recommended for the XPA-5.
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post #109 of 198 Old 12-21-2009, 02:20 PM
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Is there a sonic difference between using the rca or xlr inputs?
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post #110 of 198 Old 12-21-2009, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

Is there a sonic difference between using the rca or xlr inputs?

Theoretically, balanced (XLR) is cleaner than unbalanced (RCA.) For short runs, you may not notice the slightly higher noise floor of unbalanced.

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post #111 of 198 Old 12-21-2009, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

Is there a sonic difference between using the rca or xlr inputs?

for short runs, not really. The balanced XLR cables are less vulnerable to picking up noise though and on longer runs especially, that can be noticable. Where I have a choice, I always use XLR balanced cables. It can't hurt. That's why studio and pro audio gear uses balanced XLR's almost exclusively.

I also prefer the more firm physical connection that the XLR's are able to make.
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post #112 of 198 Old 12-22-2009, 11:49 AM
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They still have the ratings for the XPA5 in 1-5 channel listed at their online store http://emotiva.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=4
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post #113 of 198 Old 12-22-2009, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Votinh View Post

They still have the ratings for the XPA5 in 1-5 channel listed at their online store http://emotiva.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=4

ahh..I did not know that. They used to have those same numbers on the main product information page for the XPA-5 as well. They removed that. My bet is they will come down from that on line store sight before too long as well. That info on the online store still lists the toroidal transformer as 1600va also..which was an error of their main product page for a while. It's actually a 1200 VA transformer. They still list the output devices as Toshiba on that page as well. They switched to a newer better output device on their amps a while ago... an ON semiconducter one. On semiconducter is headquartered in Phoenix and used to be the Motorola semi conducter division.
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post #114 of 198 Old 01-02-2010, 12:13 AM
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What would be a better option? A single XPA-1 per speaker or a single XPA-2 per speaker and bi-amp?

-Lou


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post #115 of 198 Old 01-02-2010, 03:26 PM
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I have gone back and forth about whether to replace my current amps, 2 pair of B&K M-200 Sonata monos (200 wpc). The XPA-1 is still on the short list, but I'm concerned about the size and weight of these things. Obviously, a 76-lb. amp (about 90 in the box) is not easily moved around and I have nightmares about getting them upstairs to my 2nd floor walk-up apartment, or shipping them off if they need fixing. How have others handled these monsters in their setups?

Having never heard them, I look at the specs, my e-mail correspondence with Emotiva, and the Secrets review and expect that perhaps there will be some improvement in sound, specifically tighter bass control. I also note Emotiva's mailing address is Franklin, TN; this is just outside Nashville, where I will plan to go for the holidays this year. If I've made no decision by then, perhaps I could swing a visit to the facility and settle the issue. That could be a trip (no pun intended)!


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post #116 of 198 Old 01-02-2010, 06:14 PM
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how would the XPA-1 behaves as a sub amp?

Good tight bass liked what the krell amps do with the speakers?
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post #117 of 198 Old 01-02-2010, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonL View Post

how would the XPA-1 behaves as a sub amp?

Good tight bass liked what the krell amps do with the speakers?

It would be complete overkill, also I don't think it has adjustable gain control so you would be stuck at 32db gain.

Class D I consider as best for the buck for subs.
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post #118 of 198 Old 01-02-2010, 06:40 PM
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I am interested in the XPA-1's , how do they compare with other big players (Levinsons, Krells, Classe, Halo JC-1, etc) for those that have listened to them?
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post #119 of 198 Old 01-03-2010, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by WilsonL View Post

how would the XPA-1 behaves as a sub amp?

Good tight bass liked what the krell amps do with the speakers?

The XPA 1 are wonderful for mids and highs (voices), but I second: Overkill for sub. A XPA-2 will do (or a XPA-5)

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post #120 of 198 Old 01-03-2010, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hammie View Post

What would be a better option? A single XPA-1 per speaker or a single XPA-2 per speaker and bi-amp?

The XPA-2 would be a better choice if you change out gear a lot - and cheaper - and easier to sell. FWIW most users that have had both don't seem to be able to tell much difference between a single XPA-2 and 2 XPA-1s. The problem is by the time you get to the volume levels where you can tell the difference the SPL numbers are off the charts - and your speakers start smoking. And the difference between 250w and 500w in terms of sound level is about 3db.

When all else fails - RTFM!

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