dolby truehd 5.1 vs dolby digital 5.1 - on a dolby 5.1 receiver - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 12-29-2008, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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So I have a Sony 5.1 system that does DTS and Dolby Digital 5.1 . Is there any advantage to using dolby truehd over dolby digital 5.1? Like on the Blu-ray of Elf, the truehd track seemed to have more detailed sound then the dolby digital 5.1 track.
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post #2 of 16 Old 12-29-2008, 08:43 PM
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Sounds like you answered your own question.
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post #3 of 16 Old 12-29-2008, 08:46 PM
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So your current system DOESN'T have HDMI right? If so, then you are not even hearing the TrueHD track. It's been downmixed to DD5.1. TrueHD, DTS-MA, and 5.1 uncompressed linear PCM cannot be transmitted via optical.

when people say "I have a Dolby 5.1 receiver," it implies that it is old and therefore no HDMI. please confirm.
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post #4 of 16 Old 12-29-2008, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes you're correct, no HDMI. It's connected via optical audio cable. So does that mean that The truehd track and the dolby track that I'm hearing are identical tracks? I just watched the dark knight, and they did sound identical. But like I was saying, Elf and a few other blu-ray movies seem like the truehd tracks had better "depth" then the dolby 5.1 tracks.
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post #5 of 16 Old 12-29-2008, 09:56 PM
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That would be your imagination to think they were different. If you play TrueHD, you will get the lossy DD track instead.

If you play DTS-HD Master Audio, you will get the lossy core track.

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post #6 of 16 Old 12-29-2008, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

That would be your imagination to think they were different. If you play TrueHD, you will get the lossy DD track instead.

If you play DTS-HD Master Audio, you will get the lossy core track.

Are you saying that if you have an older reciever, and you do not have any HDMI connections all Doldy TrueHD tracks will be down converte to Dolby Digital tracks?

I recall reading that if you attempt to decode the Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master tracks with a reciever that does not have ability to do so, you may damage your speakers.

I also recall reading that if your reciever does not have the ability decode these tracks and the blu-ray disk does not include a basic dolby digital or DTS track, you can only get stereo?

What's the deal?
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post #7 of 16 Old 12-30-2008, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k elone View Post

Are you saying that if you have an older reciever, and you do not have any HDMI connections all Doldy TrueHD tracks will be down converte to Dolby Digital tracks?

Yes

Quote:


I recall reading that if you attempt to decode the Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master tracks with a reciever that does not have ability to do so, you may damage your speakers.

Well, a receiver incapable of decoding these should communicate that fact to the player via HDMI/EDID, and should never receive them. I recall something about not playing DTS CDs or something like that in my receiver manual. I forget what it was, and it's unrelated to high bit rate audio such as TrueHD.

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I also recall reading that if your reciever does not have the ability decode these tracks and the blu-ray disk does not include a basic dolby digital or DTS track, you can only get stereo?
What's the deal?

Blu-ray discs with TrueHD tracks should contain a companion Digital track which is used when necessary. Supposedly, this is dictated by some standard, but I have never seen it. I have personally tried out a disc with TrueHD, and I got DD, so I believe it.

DTS is a bit more clever. DTS allows for extensions, which can be ignored by devices not supporting them. DTS-HD Master Audio tracks are playable with standard DTS decoders via the presence of the DTS Core - the lossless extension is simply ignored (there's a paper online explaining this in technical detail, but I hope you get the gist.)

In summary, it should just work. Not only that, but the lossy soundtracks on Blu-ray discs are arguably almost as good as the lossy tracks. Dolby Digital is present at a higher rate on Blu-ray discs which can provide for better sound than on DVD while still using the stock DD decoder. DTS is a very high rate (up to 1.5 Mbs) codec. Some claim DTS is already so close to lossless, that most people would be hard pressed to tell high rate DTS from the original.

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post #8 of 16 Old 12-30-2008, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Yes



Well, a receiver incapable of decoding these should communicate that fact to the player via HDMI/EDID, and should never receive them. I recall something about not playing DTS CDs or something like that in my receiver manual. I forget what it was, and it's unrelated to high bit rate audio such as TrueHD.

What if the reciever does not have HDMI?
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post #9 of 16 Old 12-30-2008, 09:52 AM
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Then you are limited to 1.5 mbs which as michael said still sounds better than dvd. If you have multi- channel analogs & a player capable of decoding this would be another option.
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post #10 of 16 Old 12-30-2008, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chatanika View Post

Then you are limited to 1.5 mbs which as michael said still sounds better than dvd. If you have multi- channel analogs & a player capable of decoding this would be another option.

I was under the impression that the analog multichannel option was the only way of recieving a surroud soundtrack if the blu-ray disk did not have a basic dolby or dts soundtrack on the disk. I have observed several blu-ray disks that only documented the new surround formates on the back cover.

I have held off on purchasing a blu-ray player because I was informed that you had to use the multichannel input on an older reciever that does not decode the new audio formates. If not, you would only get the stereo track from the disk.

What's the deal? Is there anyone using an optical cable or digital coxial hooked to a non DTS Master or Dolby Tru HD reciever still being able to recieve a surround track when the blu-ray disk do not document having a basic dts or dolby digital surround track?
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post #11 of 16 Old 12-30-2008, 11:32 AM
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They have maintained backward compatibiliy for the legacy digital audio connections, you don't get get stereo. Spiradic reports of people getting stereo, but it's always a config issue of some sort.
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post #12 of 16 Old 12-30-2008, 01:06 PM
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The only way to get lossless is multi-channel analog, or HDMI. Otherwise, you will get DD/DTS. In the case of DD, you can get higher rate DD than you can on DVD. For DTS, you will get the same DTS you can get on DVD, but it's very close to the original.

The stickied AVR FAQ covers all of this in more detail. Maybe that will help.

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post #13 of 16 Old 12-30-2008, 01:36 PM
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If your current receiver has 5.1 analog inputs, then all you need is a Blu-Ray player that has a 5.1 analog output that can internally decode the new lossless sound formats found on Blu-Ray discs. With this option, you can enjoy all of the new lossless sound formats (DD-TrueHD, DTS HD-MA) along with all of the old legacy sound formats (DD, DTS).

The Panasonic DMP-BD55 Blu-Ray player is an excellent choice for this.

Your other option would be to buy a new HDMI Receiver with DD-TrueHD or DTS HD-MA sound processing capability. In that case, you would need a Blu-Ray player that can pass, via bitstream, the new lossless sound formats through an HDMI connection. If you go this route, you would not need to worry about the 5.1 analog input connection.

The Panasonic DMP-BD35 Blu-Ray player is an excellent choice for this option.
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post #14 of 16 Old 12-30-2008, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

They have maintained backward compatibiliy for the legacy digital audio connections, you don't get get stereo. Spiradic reports of people getting stereo, but it's always a config issue of some sort.

Does anyone know the correct set-up procedure that would allow me to hook any blu-ray player to my pioneer elite 45tx using an optical cable and still get a basic dolby digital or dts surround track?
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post #15 of 16 Old 12-30-2008, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k elone View Post

Does anyone know the correct set-up procedure that would allow me to hook any blu-ray player to my pioneer elite 45tx using an optical cable and still get a basic dolby digital or dts surround track?

Just hook up the optical cable, and make sure audio is set to output over optical if there's such a setting.

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post #16 of 16 Old 12-30-2008, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k elone View Post

I have observed several blu-ray disks that only documented the new surround formates on the back cover.

The Blu-ray spec makes it mandatory to have a legacy DD or DTS track for backwards compatibility. DTS-HD MA tracks have a legacy DTS track as their core while TrueHD tracks have a legacy DD track embedded in the bitstream. So they're on the disc, even when not listed on the back cover.

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