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post #1 of 67 Old 01-05-2009, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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AVR comparison chart and other files on Google Docs

{Original message from January 2009}

Like some fellow readers, I'm beginning the search for a new receiver. I've been browsing the AMPs/Receivers/Procs threads here for a few weeks. I see that there are plenty of "Official" owners' threads for a particular model/line. I also see quite a few "best AVR for {some price}?" threads (three or four near the top of the heap right now).

Is there a single, somewhat-unified resource that lets us compare AVR *specs* across manufacturers? I realize that there are a bazillion AVR models available and some vendor/price search sites do a fair job of refining searches based on specs. However, I think there's room for improvement.

Here's my personal example:

I'm in the market for a 7.1-capable receiver that supports all of the latest codecs and has 3 (minimum)/4+ (preferred) HDMI inputs and some sort of Audyessy-like calibration. Other optional niceties would be support for HD Radio tuning, multiple zones ... possibly from multiple HDMI outputs). Of course, I'd want all of this at the lowest price possible.

Sure enough, my research has uncovered some nice offerings like the Denon AVR-4308CI and the Yamaha RX-V3900 that would meet all of my needs and then some. At the moment, I'm not too willing to pay for the extras that I'll likely never use.

However, it would be great if some site would let me plug in some of those specific desires and spit out a list of capable units. I'm not aware of such a tool.

To that end, I've created an AVR comparison chart on Google Docs that I intend to help me in my search. At the moment, I've populated that chart with very little data. However, anyone should be able to edit this chart ... even without having a Google Docs account. I hope that some of the owners and experts here are willing to add some information to help complete the chart. I invite you all to add any piece of AVR hardware you want, as well as any "data column" you'd like to see. I don't intend for this document to be the one-and-only AVR comparison chart ever, but I'm hoping it can be the start of something useful.

FYI: If you are prompted to sign into Google Docs to simply view the file, chances are that you are blocking cookies or your browser is in some weird state. This file is supposed to be editable by anyone. I only ask that you not delete any information unless it is absolutely incorrect.

Enjoy!

-SUO

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post #2 of 67 Old 01-06-2009, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Any worthwhile inputs?

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post #3 of 67 Old 01-06-2009, 02:11 PM
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I have been looking for a kind of "one stop" comparison site for weeks now to no avail.

I'm in the same boat you are. I'm glad I did not go into research for a living because this driving me nuts.

I noticed you do not have Onkyo on your list. That seems to be all the rage here of late; do you have reasons for omitting Onkyo?

I have actually purchased and returned 3 receiver in the past 3 months. I want and need my 4th to be the winner but my time and patients are running out. Harmon Kardon and Yamaha are off my list.

My experience over the past 3 months has taught me that you can look at all the specs in the world but is it going to be compatible w/your other equip.

All my other equip. is new (with in 6 months) and the receiver is going to have to work with it.

I am now looking at the Onkyo 706 or 805 or possibly the 606 for a lot of the same concerns you have - Am I going to use or even miss all the extra "stuff".

Sorry about the long winded post.
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post #4 of 67 Old 01-06-2009, 04:30 PM
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Very nice idea. If people respect it, you should be able to develop a reasonably useful chart there.

- Jasen.
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post #5 of 67 Old 01-07-2009, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you both for the encouragement. Hopefully, some happy owners will contribute their findings to the chart and really make it useful.

For the moment, I am purposely leaving off Onkyo models for *my personal* search. Although my current recevier (and 10-year-old rebadged by Toshiba) is an Onkyo, some of the comments on the newer models that I've read here make it seem like the company is *NOT* meeting customer needs. Admittedly, I don't think these issues are present with the "older" models, but some mentions of heat and lack of firmware updates (Integra) force me to proceed cautiously. There are certainly some models in the 876-to-906 range that would meet nearly all of my needs and desires.

Feel free to add Onkyo and other models to that spreadsheet if you wish!

-SUO

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post #6 of 67 Old 01-07-2009, 01:37 PM
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I added some Onkyo models with some notes on features not featured in your columns. Should there maybe be columns for video scaling/upconverting features as well as what chipsets are used? Also, maybe a column for what DACs are used? Maybe weight as well? I didn't want to add these without the OP's permission.

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post #7 of 67 Old 01-08-2009, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the additions. I have no problems if you want to add columns. The more information we have, the better the decisions that can be made.

I added some placeholders for more models today (HK, Rotel, Sony) merely because I saw glanced through the threads.

-SUO

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post #8 of 67 Old 01-24-2009, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Small update! We're up to almost 30 receivers in the chart. I know that there's hundreds more we could add. If each reader would add just one model
(perhaps, the one you own!), I know that I ... and others ... would appreciate it.

-SUO

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post #9 of 67 Old 01-25-2009, 12:19 AM
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Great idea, but know that new receivers are coming out quite often.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #10 of 67 Old 01-27-2009, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Indeed, I'm sure new models are announced or released all of the time. However, I'd bet that many of them coincide with events like CES, so we can expect bursts of announcements at a given time of the year.

Nonetheless, I hope this chart gives viewers an at-a-glance AVR comparison that apparently doesn't exist elsewhere. I guess we'll have to see how useful it is once we get to a hundred or so AVRs listed.

I pushed the AVR count over 30 yesterday.

-SUO

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post #11 of 67 Old 01-27-2009, 07:21 AM
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Adding a column for LPCM over HDMI would be very helpful for folks looking for an older or lower-end AVR to handle source decoded audio over HDMI (i.e. PS3 and BD players with internal decoders).

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post #12 of 67 Old 02-12-2009, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Per request, I've added a second worksheet to this chart to cover some of the features you guys have suggested. These new colums are:

LPCM over HDMI
Video Chipset
Video Scaling
Upconvert
DACs Used

Since I cannot claim to be any kind of expert, I'll presume that the LPCM and Upconvert columns will likely contain YES or NO values; DACs Used will be a number. Of course, those aren't madates, just my own assumption. Once we get a good amount of data on the second sheet, I'll add the columns to the main worksheet. Feel free to add/suggest more columns for tracking.

I'm also taking requests for more AVRs to add to the chart. I just bought the Panasonic unit, so I'm out of the market for a while. Doesn't mean that I won't keep tabs on the latest and greatest hardware.

-SUO

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post #13 of 67 Old 02-13-2009, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUOrangeman View Post

Per request, I've added a second worksheet to this chart to cover some of the features you guys have suggested. These new colums are:

LPCM over HDMI
Video Chipset
Video Scaling
Upconvert
DACs Used

Since I cannot claim to be any kind of expert, I'll presume that the LPCM and Upconvert columns will likely contain YES or NO values; DACs Used will be a number. Of course, those aren't madates, just my own assumption. Once we get a good amount of data on the second sheet, I'll add the columns to the main worksheet. Feel free to add/suggest more columns for tracking.

I'm also taking requests for more AVRs to add to the chart. I just bought the Panasonic unit, so I'm out of the market for a while. Doesn't mean that I won't keep tabs on the latest and greatest hardware.

-SUO

I can give you whatever info you need on the AVR 254 and 354 from Harman/Kardon. Let me know what you need...and keep up the good work. The version of this for Blu Ray players is immensely helpful for me and my employees at work.

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post #14 of 67 Old 02-16-2009, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the offer, jayhawk11. I just added those two models to the chart. Please verify my findings.

FYI, the webpage for the AVR-254 explicitly mentiones the audio decoding capabilities, but there is no information for the AVR-354. Can I assume that the 354, at a minimum, matches the 254?

I'd also appreciate any information on the last worksheet for those model (i.e., LPCM over HDMI, any video processing infor beyond the mention of Faroudja).

-SUO

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post #15 of 67 Old 02-20-2009, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Added two of the forthcoming Yamaha units (RX-V665 and RX-V765).

-SUO

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post #16 of 67 Old 03-04-2009, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Added Sony STR-DH500/STR-DH700/STR-DH800/STR-DN1000

-SUO

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post #17 of 67 Old 03-04-2009, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUOrangeman View Post

Thanks for the offer, jayhawk11. I just added those two models to the chart. Please verify my findings.

FYI, the webpage for the AVR-254 explicitly mentiones the audio decoding capabilities, but there is no information for the AVR-354. Can I assume that the 354, at a minimum, matches the 254?

I'd also appreciate any information on the last worksheet for those model (i.e., LPCM over HDMI, any video processing infor beyond the mention of Faroudja).

-SUO

Sorry about the delay. I updated the AVR 254/354 info for you. The 354 can decode all HD audio codecs, same as the 254. Both can also accept LPCM over HDMI, and use the Faroudja Torino chipset. They also upconvert all analog sources to 1080p over HDMI. Hope that helps!

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post #18 of 67 Old 03-06-2009, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Excellent input! Thanks.

I've also added a few more models (mostly from Sherwood, I think).

Anyone finding this chart useful? What would make it better?

07 March update: Approaching 50 AVRs on the chart and we've started tracking network and DSD capabilities

-SUO

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post #19 of 67 Old 03-09-2009, 08:21 PM
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I think the chart is very useful and encourage owners of late model receivers that are still on the market to input their units specs upon this chart. This chart reminds me of how Crutchfield puts a comparison chart for their products they sell. I have always found that a useful resource. The more input we get, I think this will make it easier for people to look at and make a decision on a model that will fit their needs best.

Cyphrex

So far, I updated some Denon and Onkyo models and added a power rating column.
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post #20 of 67 Old 03-12-2009, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm happy to annouce that the Onkyo TX-SR607 is the 50th AVR added to the chart. Thanks to everyone who has contributed thus far!

(Back to you regularly-scheduled March Madness )

-SUO

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post #21 of 67 Old 03-13-2009, 01:35 PM
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added some info on the Denon AVR-1909
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post #22 of 67 Old 03-25-2009, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Added Cambridge Audio Azur 640R V2

-SUO

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post #23 of 67 Old 03-29-2009, 10:13 AM
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Hi Everyone,
long time lurker, first time post.

SUO, I think this chart is a great idea.
I had an idea for 1 additional sheet, and it would list the same AVR models, and have a column for problems/issues/gripes with that particular receiver. These would come from the "owner" threads, and should be a widespread problem (i.e. not just 1 user).

examples would be:
onkyo 606 - 50% chance of hum when using hdmi
yamaha 663 - does not pass black-to-black
hk 254/354 - problem x,y,z (x,y fixed by firmware, z still an issue)

they could also link to avs threads that list the problem.

This would make it much easier than sorting through 100 posts about a particular receiver when doing a quick comparison.

hopefully the "global write" permissions won't be an issue (like someone from a mfgr just comes along and deletes the problem entries for their receivers)
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post #24 of 67 Old 03-29-2009, 10:19 AM
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Personally I would gather as much info (maybe 2 or 3 times what you have now) including any new line of receiver (yamaha, onkyo and pioneer for now) and compile as much of it as possible on your data sheet. Repost it in a new thread and get it stickied so it doesn't keep shuffling through the forum all the time. People see this thread once every few days (or whatever) and it's not being taken as seriously as it should be IMO. It's a great idea but I think it should be more comprehensive before it's going to garner the attention it deserves to become stickied. Going about it this way (chasing this thread as it gets shuffled down the list) is not going to make alot of fans IMO. Anyway, this type of resource is of great help to lots of people...so hopefully one day it will be readily available and stickied. It just has to warrant being stickied first

Great job, keep up the work.
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post #25 of 67 Old 03-30-2009, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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3% and D99,

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I have no problem with the additional worksheet to track issues with the AVRs. In fact, I just added a "Prevalent Issues" worksheet. Let's hope folks start making good use of it. I'm not too concerned with anyone "tampering" with the information posted. GoogleDocs has a handy edit tracking mechanism.

As for making this chart/thread sticky-worthy, that's up to the powers that be. I'd love to see it happen. I too think this chart is quite useful and can be even more useful as more information is added. However, I think that only a select few of the readers here have exposure to enough AVR equipment to really populate the chart with 50 to 100 more models. Yes, I realize that there are many more units out there, but are all of them really worth adding to this chart? (For instance, I don't think I've added any unit that is less that 5.1-capable.) Should we cap the chart at any model brought to market after, say 2006? I don't know. So, it's up to the readers to contribute ... in a WikiPedia-ish way.

Anyway, thanks again for the comments. I can only take credit for logging into GoogleDocs and starting the document. Any additional benefit is the result from the many readers and users. To those of you out there, I thank you for your input!

-SUO

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post #26 of 67 Old 04-02-2009, 08:01 AM
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I just found this and I must say it's very useful. It's really hard, specially for a newbie having to go to manufacturer's pages and try to decipher what features it has based on the product specifications (the terminologies seem to vary between manufacturers).

One suggestion, can you put the Make and Model in separate columns? That would make filtering the results a bit easier.

Thanks again for all the work.
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post #27 of 67 Old 04-02-2009, 08:24 AM
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I also just found this, and it is a fantastic idea. I was considering doing this for myself, at least for the models I'm shopping.

May I suggest adding a column for pre-outs. Many people wish to use their AVR in combo with an external amp, so pre-out information is important. Does it have pre-outs (yes/no), how many, and possibly voltage.

May I also suggest sorting the AVR's by manufacturer, alphabetically (it seems this has been done on the additional worksheets but not the first one). This would make it much easier to compare receivers within a manu's line, as well as make it easier to find a particular one. Also, the idea of having a seperate column for manu's and their model number might assist with this.

Since this is already started, I'll see if I can find some time to help bring it along, it would assist me greatly in my search for the perfect AVR at a good price.
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post #28 of 67 Old 04-02-2009, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

I just found this and I must say it's very useful. It's really hard, specially for a newbie having to go to manufacturer's pages and try to decipher what features it has based on the product specifications (the terminologies seem to vary between manufacturers).

One suggestion, can you put the Make and Model in separate columns? That would make filtering the results a bit easier.

Thanks again for all the work.

Done

you can sort them by any of the available columns so listing in an certain order is really a non issue.

THERE IS NO NORSICAN, THERE IS ONLY ZUUL
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post #29 of 67 Old 04-02-2009, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norsican View Post

Done

Wow, that was pretty quick. Thank you very much! I hope more people, especially owners, would add more AVRs to the list. If we can get nearly all AVR models (or at least all the ones that are readily available) on the chart, it would make narrowing down AVR choices based on price and features that much easier.
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post #30 of 67 Old 04-02-2009, 09:03 AM
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Glad to help. Considering I am looking for a new AVR as well, A spreadsheet would do me some good.

Now to get some more models in there.

THERE IS NO NORSICAN, THERE IS ONLY ZUUL
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