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post #2971 of 5559 Old 01-31-2012, 09:56 AM
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What is RF 82II?

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post #2972 of 5559 Old 01-31-2012, 01:19 PM
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It's a Klipsch floor standing speaker .... The RF82 was discontinued and the new one is the RF82II

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post #2973 of 5559 Old 01-31-2012, 08:42 PM
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Hello to all.....I have a question about MCACC on the Pioneer 1121. In regards to the reverb view and setting the delay time, what exactly am I looking for on the reverb view to determine what delay time to set? I have read just about all of this thread and have seen this asked several times but never answered specifically. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
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post #2974 of 5559 Old 01-31-2012, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanksfan2 View Post

Hello to all.....I have a question about MCACC on the Pioneer 1121. In regards to the reverb view and setting the delay time, what exactly am I looking for on the reverb view to determine what delay time to set? I have read just about all of this thread and have seen this asked several times but never answered specifically. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

I had the same question as you. Basically the answer I absorbed by reading all these threads is that if it sounds too echoey to you, lower the time from what MCACC suggests. Experiment with different times and see how it sounds, constantly lowering until it sounds right.

With my old speakers I ended up going with 10-30 ms, with my current ones, I ended up leaving what MCACC measured at 30-50 ms.
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post #2975 of 5559 Old 01-31-2012, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerrh View Post

I had the same question as you. Basically the answer I absorbed by reading all these threads is that if it sounds too echoey to you, lower the time from what MCACC suggests. Experiment with different times and see how it sounds, constantly lowering until it sounds right.

With my old speakers I ended up going with 10-30 ms, with my current ones, I ended up leaving what MCACC measured at 30-50 ms.

Thank you for the quick response. MCACC set mine at 30-50ms, so I will work my way down from there and compare the results. I was just thinking there was something in the reverb view that would have pinpointed a time based on my results.
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post #2976 of 5559 Old 02-01-2012, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanksfan2 View Post

Thank you for the quick response. MCACC set mine at 30-50ms, so I will work my way down from there and compare the results. I was just thinking there was something in the reverb view that would have pinpointed a time based on my results.

If you want to be more precise, you need something like this:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #2977 of 5559 Old 02-03-2012, 10:21 AM
 
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Subwoofer Question:
-I have splurged and bought the Outlaw LMF-1 EX sub, specs down to 16hz.

1. Is Mcacc Advance able to calibrate this well, I remember reading problems about mcacc at lower hz.

2. Does that mean mcacc might cut my sub at a much higher level and I wasted my money on this sub, or regardless will my sub still be able to go down to 16hz.

(Still need a receiver, thinking about the pioneer 1021 on newegg)
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post #2978 of 5559 Old 02-03-2012, 02:09 PM
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MCACC does not EQ the sub. It will time-align and set the crossover frequency and volume level. If your sub will do it in your room, it will go down to 16 Hz, no worries.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #2979 of 5559 Old 02-04-2012, 02:08 PM
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I'm sure this question has been answered more than one but I can't find it. I've had a VSX-820-K for about 2 weeks now I've been reading the book and reading these forums but I still can't seem to get much bass everything sounds empty the sub is working just not how I want it too I have a bookshelf sterio that sounds better and it's driving me crazy.
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post #2980 of 5559 Old 02-04-2012, 02:56 PM
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Room size, sub type and number, AVR settings?

You may be sitting in a room null (a typical recommendation is to sit about 1/3 in, not in the center of the room) and if that's the case you need to move.

It is also possible MCACC has properly set the sub's level and you are used to hearing more bass than is actually present in the source (happens all the time). If that's the case, just boost the sub's trim (or volume knob on the sub).

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #2981 of 5559 Old 02-05-2012, 09:48 AM
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I have 1 sub its an infinity TSS-800 and the room is 12x21 I turned the sub up but it's still not putting out much bass. It also seems like the whole system itself isn't very loud I have to turn it up to max just to watch tv.
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post #2982 of 5559 Old 02-05-2012, 09:23 PM
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I re-ran full auto MCACC again. Had all the speakers set small, crossover at 100 since my sats do not go below 115hz.
I ended up getting fronts large and the other speakers as small.

I changed the fronts to small. Last time I had all large which I switched to small. Question is do I need to run MCACC again? I thought you do not have to re-run anything but some debate I foound said you have to. If yes what portion? I think I should be some manual part of it but which one? Need help in the right direction.
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post #2983 of 5559 Old 02-06-2012, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iafzal View Post

I re-ran full auto MCACC again. Had all the speakers set small, crossover at 100 since my sats do not go below 115hz.
I ended up getting fronts large and the other speakers as small.

I changed the fronts to small. Last time I had all large which I switched to small. Question is do I need to run MCACC again? I thought you do not have to re-run anything but some debate I foound said you have to. If yes what portion? I think I should be some manual part of it but which one? Need help in the right direction.

You're fine. There's no need to re-run MCACC again.
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post #2984 of 5559 Old 02-06-2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iafzal View Post

I re-ran full auto MCACC again. Had all the speakers set small, crossover at 100 since my sats do not go below 115hz.
I ended up getting fronts large and the other speakers as small.

I changed the fronts to small. Last time I had all large which I switched to small. Question is do I need to run MCACC again? I thought you do not have to re-run anything but some debate I foound said you have to. If yes what portion? I think I should be some manual part of it but which one? Need help in the right direction.

Run "Full Auto MCACC" which will set the Front speakers to Large... and sometimes the Center speaker to Large. Change them to Small and set your X-Over for the Sub. Now run "Auto MCACC" and select "Keep SP Settings" which will run the process again without changing the speaker size. If you ever use Full Auto MCACC again, you will have to change the speaker sizes again.

The above is a very basic explanation, but I'm hoping it will help you understand what direction you're going. The next thing to do is read the very first post in this forum. You don't have to do everything in that post, but it will prepare you for the choices you'll be confronted with in the "Keep SP Settings" menu... Symmetry, All Ch Adjust, and Front Align. Once you make your selection and run the process, you can stop there. Or you can use the first post to go even further, but be prepared to spend hours and hours reading and experimenting. Good luck.
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post #2985 of 5559 Old 02-09-2012, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanksfan2 View Post

Hello to all.....I have a question about MCACC on the Pioneer 1121. In regards to the reverb view and setting the delay time, what exactly am I looking for on the reverb view to determine what delay time to set? I have read just about all of this thread and have seen this asked several times but never answered specifically. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by millerrh View Post

I had the same question as you. Basically the answer I absorbed by reading all these threads is that if it sounds too echoey to you, lower the time from what MCACC suggests. Experiment with different times and see how it sounds, constantly lowering until it sounds right.
.

Its not really clear in the manual on how to read the reverb view and getting a delay time to try. Looking at the graph I tried a time setting where the graphs flattened out. Default on my LX85(SC57) is 30-50ms..... the 20-40ms time delay seems to take out some brightness at higher volumes.

In my room I have heavy curtains which are usually closed for movies but may be open or closed for music. I have setup mcacc or both scenarios.... very handy.
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post #2986 of 5559 Old 02-10-2012, 03:36 PM
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In the past I ran full MCACC and then auto MCACC where some of the speakers were set to large. I then switch all the speakers to small for HT for several days. Things sounded ok, but I did notice a difference in bass response after doing the whole setup thing a second time. The second time I ran Full MCACC and then auto MCACC but use the keep my speaker in the auto MCACC( which I set all speakers to small) run. The bass in my system improved, namely the subwoofer was tighter and more dynamic. I also used the EQ pro in the first and second calibration with the mic in 3 positions. So, for me it does make a difference by using the keep speaker settings when running auto MCACC. This is superior to randomly changing the speakers to small or some large later on. Some people feel the choice in speakers is the most important part of a home system, I think building a system around a good avr/amp/pre amp is as important. After having my SC 35 for 6 months, I don't think you can buy another brand avr better than the Elite avr's for under $2000.

P.S. Most people do not need to worry about time delays unless their wire runs are greater than 50 ft. Wire runs of 20-30 ft are so small that you will not distinguish a few millisecond delay.

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post #2987 of 5559 Old 02-10-2012, 04:31 PM
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Time delays are for acoustic (sound) propagation, not wire delay. Wire runs of 20 - 30 ft have far less delay than a few ms. Moving a speaker (or listening position) by 1 foot changes the delay by about 1 ms. The other factor in delay is the delay through the DSP, which can run into the ms range.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #2988 of 5559 Old 02-11-2012, 03:37 AM
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Hay guys can anyone guide me through the MCACC setup because i'm having issues with the sub, when I run the MCACC I end up with virtually no bass. I have a Velodyne SPL 1200R and Velodyne SMS-1 room EQ system which makes it similar to say a DD12, anyhow I suppose i'm wondering what order should I run there EQ programs and is there anything settings I should switch off on the pioneer LX83 before running the Velodyne eq?
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post #2989 of 5559 Old 02-11-2012, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Time delays are for acoustic (sound) propagation, not wire delay. Wire runs of 20 - 30 ft have far less delay than a few ms. Moving a speaker (or listening position) by 1 foot changes the delay by about 1 ms. The other factor in delay is the delay through the DSP, which can run into the ms range.

The time values we're talking about here are not delays, but "the time period for Advanced EQ Setup". They tell the receiver how long to wait before analyzing the response from the microphone during an MCACC run.

Here are a few extracts from the SC-07 "Advanced MCACC PC Display Application Software" manual:

Quote:
Originally Posted by p.18 View Post

How to interpret reverb graphs (Reverb)
The graphs show changes in microphone input level along a time axis, beginning from a state of quiet at time 0, when test tones begin to be output, and continuing while a constant level of sound is output from the
speakers.
If there is absolutely no reverberation in your room, the graph will look like a straight horizontal line.
If there is reverberation, the graph will show a gradual accumulation of acoustic power, and then level off

Quote:
Originally Posted by p.19 View Post

Deciding the time period for Advanced EQ Setup calibration
With conventional MCACC EQ calibration, the microphone input's data acquisition time was fixed at between 80 and 160 [ms]. By contrast, with the receiver's Advanced EQ Setup function allowing more professional equalization, the customer can select individual points between 0 and 80 [ms] (with a 20 ms width) .

Therefore, the conventional MCACC EQ will usually (in most rooms) wait until the room is fully reverberating by analyzing the response during the time period of 80 to 160 ms after the test tone has started to be produced.

Advanced EQ looks at a response at a much earlier time, and that time period is configurable.

Here is the direct link to that document on Pioneer's site: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...ctions0708.pdf

Hope this will help clarify this question!

Dan.
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post #2990 of 5559 Old 02-12-2012, 03:37 AM
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Please Help me!
I have read all the posts. Tried first page and several variations as suggested by many good postings (this thread rocks!!!.)
I used to calibrate without a tripod and got a good SQ in Memory4 (Symmetry, default time). It sounds excellent except slight overpowering on left.
I bought a tripod and the best calibrated one is saved in Memory 5 (symmetry, 30-50 ms). This gives some more detailed sound (esp on higher freq). However, I find the overall music less 'opened', voice slightly muffled than Memory 4. Memory 5 (tripod one) is tighter, voice tighter and overall too 'firm'. Music sounds better in Memory 4 (non-tripod measured) sometimes. Still there is something is better in Memory 5 (tripod measured).
Questions
1. What can I tweak in Memory 5 to take the more 'open' soundstage of Memory 4?
2. Below are my readings... is there anything else I can change based on my results?


BTW, my room has carpets. Pio is SC-35 or LX73. I have Primus speakers (C25 centre, C360 main, C250 others, sub). Sub XOver is max, level dialled halfway. I like PLIIX for music and PLIIX+THX for movies (THX Select 2 rarely appears - don't know why??).
Reverb Before
Attachment 236978

Reverb After
Attachment 236977

Setting, Level, Distance
Attachment 236980

Standing Wave
Attachment 236981

Eq Cal
Attachment 236979
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #2991 of 5559 Old 02-12-2012, 08:21 PM
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Dan -- I was resonding to the p.s. in derrickdj1's post, that seemed to be talking about wire runs... May be wrong (not the first time).

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #2992 of 5559 Old 02-12-2012, 08:51 PM
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Anyone, please reply to the post below.
Thanks
Dave



Quote:
Originally Posted by devgcl View Post

Please Help me!
I have read all the posts. Tried first page and several variations as suggested by many good postings (this thread rocks!!!.)
I used to calibrate without a tripod and got a good SQ in Memory4 (Symmetry, default time). It sounds excellent except slight overpowering on left.
I bought a tripod and the best calibrated one is saved in Memory 5 (symmetry, 30-50 ms). This gives some more detailed sound (esp on higher freq). However, I find the overall music less 'opened', voice slightly muffled than Memory 4. Memory 5 (tripod one) is tighter, voice tighter and overall too 'firm'. Music sounds better in Memory 4 (non-tripod measured) sometimes. Still there is something is better in Memory 5 (tripod measured).
Questions
1. What can I tweak in Memory 5 to take the more 'open' soundstage of Memory 4?
2. Below are my readings... is there anything else I can change based on my results?


BTW, my room has carpets. Pio is SC-35 or LX73. I have Primus speakers (C25 centre, C360 main, C250 others, sub). Sub XOver is max, level dialled halfway. I like PLIIX for music and PLIIX+THX for movies (THX Select 2 rarely appears - don't know why??).
Reverb Before
Attachment 236978

Reverb After
Attachment 236977

Setting, Level, Distance
Attachment 236980

Standing Wave
Attachment 236981

Eq Cal
Attachment 236979

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post #2993 of 5559 Old 02-13-2012, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljcarr View Post

Hay guys can anyone guide me through the MCACC setup because i'm having issues with the sub, when I run the MCACC I end up with virtually no bass. I have a Velodyne SPL 1200R and Velodyne SMS-1 room EQ system which makes it similar to say a DD12, anyhow I suppose i'm wondering what order should I run there EQ programs and is there anything settings I should switch off on the pioneer LX83 before running the Velodyne eq?

Running Velodyne spl 1200 ultra (Optimum 12) myself.
Mcacc does not equalise below 63Hz so maybe try setting mains to small and crossover to 80Hz.
I ran mcacc first then Velodyne inbuilt room calibration; plenty of bass.
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post #2994 of 5559 Old 02-13-2012, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Dan -- I was resonding to the p.s. in derrickdj1's post, that seemed to be talking about wire runs... May be wrong (not the first time).

Yeah, I agree and maybe I should have quoted you both in my response. Your answer is right on about wire speaker length having negligeable effect for time delay. The p.s. is what was veering off on the wrong track from the discussion that was taking place.

Dan.
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post #2995 of 5559 Old 02-13-2012, 11:01 AM
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Agreed, no worries, just trying to look like less a dummy than usual...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #2996 of 5559 Old 02-13-2012, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooksta View Post

Running Velodyne spl 1200 ultra (Optimum 12) myself.
Mcacc does not equalise below 63Hz so maybe try setting mains to small and crossover to 80Hz.
I ran mcacc first then Velodyne inbuilt room calibration; plenty of bass.

Subwoofer Velo EQ first, then MCACC.
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post #2997 of 5559 Old 02-13-2012, 02:19 PM
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Hi,
Hope some experts pitch in for my post ... I am trying to get the most of MCACC.
Thanks

[quote=devgcl;21633181]Please Help me!
I have read all the posts. Tried first page and several variations as suggested by many good postings (this thread rocks!!!.)
I used to calibrate without a tripod and got a good SQ in Memory4 (Symmetry, default time). It sounds excellent except slight overpowering on
QUOTE}
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post #2998 of 5559 Old 02-14-2012, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devgcl View Post

Please Help me!
I have read all the posts. Tried first page and several variations as suggested by many good postings (this thread rocks!!!.)
I used to calibrate without a tripod and got a good SQ in Memory4 (Symmetry, default time). It sounds excellent except slight overpowering on left.
I bought a tripod and the best calibrated one is saved in Memory 5 (symmetry, 30-50 ms). This gives some more detailed sound (esp on higher freq). However, I find the overall music less 'opened', voice slightly muffled than Memory 4. Memory 5 (tripod one) is tighter, voice tighter and overall too 'firm'. Music sounds better in Memory 4 (non-tripod measured) sometimes. Still there is something is better in Memory 5 (tripod measured).
Questions
1. What can I tweak in Memory 5 to take the more 'open' soundstage of Memory 4?
2. Below are my readings... is there anything else I can change based on my results?


BTW, my room has carpets. Pio is SC-35 or LX73. I have Primus speakers (C25 centre, C360 main, C250 others, sub). Sub XOver is max, level dialled halfway. I like PLIIX for music and PLIIX+THX for movies (THX Select 2 rarely appears - don't know why??).

Hello dev,

Sorry I can't help you much on your question, just wanted to respond to show that we're not purposely ignoring your question. Here are some reasons why you may have difficulty getting an answer (please don't take any of this as criticism, just stating my opinion):

- You're asking something that is very subjective and that is not correlating directly to a setting (What are the settings creating an "open" soundstage?). To properly answer you, someone would need to be able to figure out from MCACC settings and your room description what to change so that *you* would feel a more open soundstage in *your* room. I know I'm not familiar enough with MCACC and its settings to be able to help you like that.

- Even though MCACC is part of new receivers, this thread has been active for over three years, so it is an "old" thread that may not have as many "experts" following it as more recent threads (Is there an SC-35/37 thread?).

- You posted a first good message, with lots of info, and show you have done a lot of work yourself (great!), but then you reposted requesting help again less than five hours after your original question. This is a bit impatient for these threads, considering what you asked.


For your question about Select 2, here's a manual quote:
Quote:


• THX Ultra2/Select2 Cinema
THX Ultra2/Select2 Cinema mode plays 5.1 movies using all 8 speakers giving you the best possible movie watching experience. In this mode, ASA processing blends the side surround speakers and back surround speakers providing the optimal mix of ambient and directional surround sounds. DTS-ES (Matrix and 6.1 Discrete) and Dolby Digital Surround EX encoded soundtracks will be automatically detected in Ultra2/Select2 Cinema mode if the appropriate flag has been encoded. Some Dolby Digital Surround EX soundtracks are missing the digital flag that allows automatic switching. If you know that the movie that you are watching is encoded in Surround EX, you can manually select the THX Surround EX playback mode, otherwise THX Ultra2/Select2 Cinema mode will apply ASA processing to provide optimum replay.
• THX Ultra2/Select2 Music
For the playback of multi-channel music the THX Ultra2/Select2 Music mode should be selected. In this mode THX ASA processing is applied to the surround channels of all 5.1 encoded music sources such as DTS, Dolby Digital and DVD-Audio to provide a wide stable rear soundstage.
• THX Ultra2/Select2 Games
For the playback of stereo and multi-channel game audio the THX Ultra2/Select2 Games mode should be selected. In this mode THX ASA processing is applied to the surround channels of all 5.1 and 2.0 encoded game sources such as analog, PCM, DTS and Dolby Digital. This accurately places all game audio surround information, providing a full 360 degree playback environment. THX Ultra2/Select2 Games mode is unique as it gives you a smooth transition of audio in all points of the surround field.

Looks like select2 would be available only on 5.1 sources, not 7.1 or 2.0, with the exception of "select2 Games" which should be available on 2.0 sources as well.

Hope this helps a little.

Dan.
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post #2999 of 5559 Old 02-14-2012, 07:13 AM
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+1. I am not sure what parameters to change to create a "more open" soundstage. I usually adjust speaker positions (toe-in and such) to adjust the soundstage. Based on that, I would try the different MCACC alignment settings -- all-channel vs. symmetric.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3000 of 5559 Old 02-14-2012, 09:45 AM
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+2.

Dev,
The immediate thing to try is the "All Ch Adj" setting. Ultimately it depends on too many factors in your listening environment, but I first ran MCACC with "symmetry" and was underwhelmed with the AQ. After reading this thread and the SC-37 thread (my receiver), I gave "All Ch Adj" a shot and the difference was night and day in my setup.

Hope this works out for you.

KS
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