"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 12 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 12Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #331 of 5559 Old 02-18-2009, 05:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
Ryan Peddle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Whitby, ON
Posts: 646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Also, what is the consensus on wiring up a RatShack meter mic to the MCACC mic input using a RCA to miniplug cable. Do you think that the Mic on the RS Meter would be a higher quality mic and enable the computer to receive better information?

Custom Home Theater Sales Specialist.
Newmarket, ON.
Ryan Peddle is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #332 of 5559 Old 02-18-2009, 05:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Macfan424's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedread View Post

...The better long-term solution for me is to get a subwoofer and/or replace the speakers.

There you go! Even a modest subwoofer could make a great improvement.
Macfan424 is offline  
post #333 of 5559 Old 02-18-2009, 05:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Macfan424's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle View Post

Also, what is the consensus on wiring up a RatShack meter mic to the MCACC mic input using a RCA to miniplug cable. Do you think that the Mic on the RS Meter would be a higher quality mic and enable the computer to receive better information?

If you are talking about the MCACC computer built in to the AVR, you are better off using the mic supplied by Pioneer. They know it's response patterns and can compensate for its irregularities in their software.
Macfan424 is offline  
post #334 of 5559 Old 02-18-2009, 05:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Legairre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedread View Post

I tried this posting in the Pioneer VSX-1018 area, but nobody knew the response, so I'm trying this here. I'm seriously considering the 1018 or forthcoming 1019.

I'm primarily interested in the MCACC 9-band equalizer settings and how much flexibility there is in the adjustment range. The manual says little -- that's why I'm hoping some of you with real-world experience with a unit that supports MCACC can help! I do know the auto setting range for each band is +/- 10 dB from the "normal" point.

Maybe it'll be clearer if I build a scenario:

I have a pair of speakers with generally weak bass response, so, the automatic MCACC setup ups the 80 Hz band by +10 dB. Say I don't think that's enough for my ears, so I want to tweak the setting for that frequency band to be, say, +14dB. Can I manually increase it an extra +4 dB or because the auto setting put it at the maximum of +10 dB, I'm not allowed to go any further?

Or, to perhaps confuse matters more, is there a zero level for the equalizer that could increase all nine bands by, say, +5 dB to a new "standard level"? Assuming I wanted to up the 80 Hz setting by +9 dB, I could then do so, and would of course have to lower all the other eight bands by applying -5 dB to get them back to where they should be. But at least then the 80 Hz setting would be at +14 dB.

I hope this helps clarify what I'm aiming to do and someone has tried this to get an idea of what range is possible. Thanks in advance!

Quote:
Originally Posted by joplass View Post

Strictly front speakers for music only, what is the risk of having some settings at their maximum possible level. As I was taking the 16Hz to maximum of +12, somewhere it gave me the message "over". Needless to say that I did not let that worry me as my front left and right are set according to my listening requirements. I came up with the graph attached here:

A 3db boost requires a doubling of the amps power for that channel. Boosting high frequencies above 60Hz isn't that bad but if you are boosting more than 3db I'd be concerned. Also receivers don't have very good power suppliers so it will affect the power for the whole receiver, because boosting can eat up a lot of dynamic headroom.

Proof that the 92&94 don't have the greatest power supplies is that they aren't recommended to power 4ohm speakers.

If I'm not mistaken the 92&94 will reduce the amount that the MV will go to based on how much the EQ is boosted and limit your maximum volume. Also if you boost to much a reduction in headroom may not be noticed until you hit a dynamic part of a movie or music that requires power that you won't have do to boosting and result in clipping the frequency which will fry a tweeter.


"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

Legairre is online now  
post #335 of 5559 Old 02-18-2009, 05:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bsoko2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 4,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle View Post

Ok guys I am going to give MCACC another try over the next few days. If it still gives me this unbearably bright sound, off it goes.

I am going to look further into the EQ Pro stuff and see how that works out.

Here is my overall equipment list:
Optoma HD70 front projector with Draper manual screen
5.0 speaker system (front three DIY 2 way towers, rears temporally Paradigm Atoms)
Pioneer VSX01 used as a Pre/Pro
NAD M25 7 channel power amplifier
HDA2 HDDVD player
PS3 bluray player

Here are a couple of pics of the living room where my system is set up (some older, some current, but the drapes, walls, furniture haven't changed).


Front soundstage


General view of the room, with 4 pieces of leather furniture. My wife and I usually sit in the lazyboys, while the dogs are on blankets on the chair and couch.

We'll see how it goes...but the brightness of the sound is unbearable.

I would say that you need some traps in that room.

Bill
bsoko2 is offline  
post #336 of 5559 Old 02-18-2009, 07:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
Ryan Peddle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Whitby, ON
Posts: 646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

I would say that you need some traps in that room.

Bill

Provide some examples.

Custom Home Theater Sales Specialist.
Newmarket, ON.
Ryan Peddle is offline  
post #337 of 5559 Old 02-18-2009, 10:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bsoko2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 4,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Peddle View Post

Provide some examples.

You have too many reflective surfaces. Go to this thread and see some of the issues others are having and how they were solved: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=255432.

Bill
bsoko2 is offline  
post #338 of 5559 Old 02-18-2009, 11:08 PM
Senior Member
 
GunDom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I reran MCACC Expert again with the proper settings on the sub. Question is can I re-run S-Wave Multi without messing up the rest of the settings?
GunDom is offline  
post #339 of 5559 Old 02-18-2009, 11:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CT_Wiebe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 6,437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunDom View Post

I reran MCACC Expert again with the proper settings on the sub. Question is can I re-run S-Wave Multi without messing up the rest of the settings?

I'm not sure. Check the "manual MCACC operation" section of the manual. Make sure you save your settings in one of the memories before you try it. That way you might be able to combine the info from the 2 runs.

Worse comes to worse, you may have to rerun the entire MCACC again with the S-Wave enabled.

Ryan Peddle -- You need to cover those bare walls with something (bookshelves, decorative hanging rug, etc.). That's where all your reverb is coming from - you have what's known as a "live" room.

The link that bsoko2 provided should help, but it's a lot of reading.

- Claus {non-Santa model}
CT_Wiebe is offline  
post #340 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 12:17 AM
Gov
AVS Special Member
 
Gov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NW Burbs of Chgo, IL
Posts: 3,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 105
I do not think you can run just standing wave alone. It is always in conjunction with EQ calibration.

Panny TC-P65VT60 (calibrated by Chad B), Denon AVR-4311, Comcast X1 DVR, Apple TV 3, Sony BDP-S5100,  Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers (mains), Horizon (CC) and HTM-200's (Surr), Dual PSA XV15 Subwoofers!!
Gov is offline  
post #341 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 08:37 AM
Member
 
joplass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

Ha! The classic "smile curve" that every kid with an outboard graphic equalizer used back when those were in vogue.

I can't really read your chart clearly, but it would seem that you go from -2 to +12, which is about +/- 7. Rule of thumb used to be keep EQ within +/- 6, so your settings aren't as radical as they appear at first glance.

Hard to quantify the risk. Depends upon how sturdy your tweeters are, how much HF there is in your music, and how high you crank it up. Lot's of people have used that kind of EQ. A few made their local repair shops happy.

Oldtimers like us don't let go all habits that easy . I don't crank up more than -25. My fronts are Walsh Ohms, they are about 15 years old but I haven't found better than those.
joplass is offline  
post #342 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 09:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Macfan424's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by joplass View Post

Oldtimers like us don't let go all habits that easy . I don't crank up more than -25. My fronts are Walsh Ohms, they are about 15 years old but I haven't found better than those.

Oh yeah, I remember those from even further back than that. Great speakers, albeit a bit unorthodox.

I don't recall them needing so much EQ, though. Probably a matter of taste and/or room. Omnidirectional speakers typically do roll off the highs to compensate for all the reflected treble coming off room surfaces.
Macfan424 is offline  
post #343 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 10:11 AM
Senior Member
 
GunDom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Classic EQ Curve? Yep! I was in that era too. Back in the days when cruising on a Friday and Saturday night was a past-time, no one cared about the mids. It is all about the bass and tweets! As long as you have a good system where the boom is what gets your attention and the tweets is what complements the whole sound, that's all that matters.

Anyway, to Gov thank you. I'm good with the current setting, just curious as to why the Multi isn't part of the "Custom-All" option. And if you can do some tweaking after the Auto was done, why not the S-Wave Multi? I wish there was a better way to re-tweak without damaging the rest. Example, re-tweak S-Wave to Multi, and it is saved wherever the proper S-Wave settings are in, and option to recalc the rest that is in conjunction with the S-Wave. Oh well, can't have everything I guess. I'm just anal.
GunDom is offline  
post #344 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 12:13 PM
Gov
AVS Special Member
 
Gov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NW Burbs of Chgo, IL
Posts: 3,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunDom View Post

Anyway, to Gov thank you. I'm good with the current setting, just curious as to why the Multi isn't part of the "Custom-All" option. And if you can do some tweaking after the Auto was done, why not the S-Wave Multi? I wish there was a better way to re-tweak without damaging the rest. Example, re-tweak S-Wave to Multi, and it is saved wherever the proper S-Wave settings are in, and option to recalc the rest that is in conjunction with the S-Wave. Oh well, can't have everything I guess. I'm just anal.

I hear ya!

Panny TC-P65VT60 (calibrated by Chad B), Denon AVR-4311, Comcast X1 DVR, Apple TV 3, Sony BDP-S5100,  Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers (mains), Horizon (CC) and HTM-200's (Surr), Dual PSA XV15 Subwoofers!!
Gov is offline  
post #345 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 01:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CHP_VR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newport Zoo
Posts: 3,287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Question:
I'm getting more involved in "fine tuning" my system.. I love the way it sounds now, but now I'm obsessed with the possiblity of making it even better.. (being a member here kinda does that to you, I know)
Anyway, I'm concentrating on my subwoofer first... would REW (Room Eq. Wizard) along with the MCACC calibrations offer any benefit other than coolness factor?
Sorry if it's silly question.. I'm still learning and everything is a WIP.

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
CHP_VR is offline  
post #346 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 01:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Legairre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 58
MCACC doesn't EQ your sub, so EQing your sub will make a big difference in your system. I use a BFD and REW software to EQ my sub and have added a house curve that makes a nice improvement. Before EQing the sub, I had several nasty bass peaks and dips(nulls). Now due to EQing the sub I have a house curve that gradually increases the bass as the frequency gets lower. EQing the sub is equally as important as EQing the other speakers.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

Legairre is online now  
post #347 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 01:35 PM
Member
 
snownut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pontypool, ON
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quick question, what is the purpose of the "Trim" option within the manual EQ vs. say just changing the level of the speakers themselves.

SnowNut
snownut is offline  
post #348 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 01:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Macfan424's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legairre View Post

...EQing the sub is equally as important as EQing the other speakers.

Or more so. It's amazing what cleaning up the sub's response will do to make everything else sound better.
Macfan424 is offline  
post #349 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 01:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Legairre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

Or more so. It's amazing what cleaning up the sub's response will do to make everything else sound better.

True, when the bass is boomy or you are sitting in a null everything else sounds bad. People EQ their primary speakers and then say the bass is gone. Lots of times EQing the primary speakers reveals that you are sitting in a subwoofer bass null that EQing the sub would fix.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

Legairre is online now  
post #350 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 01:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CHP_VR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newport Zoo
Posts: 3,287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Great! Thanks Legairre and Macfan424, much appreciated.
So, looks like a BFD is definitely worth it, then.. I can get one locally, is there any preference over the FBQ2496 or the DSP 1124P? (only $40 difference in price)
Sorry if this is off topic I originally thought this was partially MCACC related..

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
CHP_VR is offline  
post #351 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 02:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Macfan424's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Haven't used either (I have an SMS-1), but when it came out it seemed like the 2496 was going to be a pretty big upgrade that might replace the 1124. Apparently it never did. It may be overkill, as there seem to be a lot of happy 1124 users around here. Not sure you need 20 filters per channel vs 12, but the idea of it seems cool.
Macfan424 is offline  
post #352 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 02:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Legairre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 58
The 2496 has 20 filters while the 1124 has 12. For me 12 is plenty. You can read some comparisons of the two models here. http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-1-vs-dcx.html

The 1124 works fine for me with my VTF3 HO turbo that goes down to 13Hz in room. The BFD's only allow you to EQ down to 20Hz. There's a natural house curve in my rrom from about 22Hz -16Hz so I used the BFD to build a curve from 80Hz 20Hz and let the room naturally continue the cure to 16Hz. Then it drops off about 5dB down to 13Hz.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

Legairre is online now  
post #353 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 02:11 PM
Gov
AVS Special Member
 
Gov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NW Burbs of Chgo, IL
Posts: 3,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 105
CHP VR,

I have an Anti-Mode 8033 which is a very powerful completely automatic subwoofer EQ. Four minutes of test tones and your done! I love it! I currrently have it EQing my HSU 3.3.

MCACC does absolutely nothing to the subwoofer other than distance and channel level.

Panny TC-P65VT60 (calibrated by Chad B), Denon AVR-4311, Comcast X1 DVR, Apple TV 3, Sony BDP-S5100,  Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers (mains), Horizon (CC) and HTM-200's (Surr), Dual PSA XV15 Subwoofers!!
Gov is offline  
post #354 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 02:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bsoko2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 4,315
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

CHP VR,

I have an Anti-Mode 8033 which is a very powerful completely automatic subwoofer EQ. Four minutes of test tones and your done! I love it! I currrently have it EQing my HSU 3.3.

MCACC does absolutely nothing to the subwoofer other than distance and channel level.

My Anti Mode 8033 is EQ'ng dual MBM-12's and dual HSU 3.3's. Five minute setup and you are done!

Bill
bsoko2 is offline  
post #355 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 03:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CHP_VR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newport Zoo
Posts: 3,287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Gee, more toys to look at...
Have to check out the Anti-Mode 8033 now..
Thanks all.. I think

Legairre, thanks for link!

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
CHP_VR is offline  
post #356 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 04:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Macfan424's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Gee, more toys to look at...
Have to check out the Anti-Mode 8033 now..
Thanks all.. I think

I don't think we've created enough confusion for you yet, so I'll do my bit by pointing out that Outlaw Audio is having a sale on the SMS-1 right now that makes its price very competitive with the Anti-Mode 8033.
Macfan424 is offline  
post #357 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 05:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CHP_VR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newport Zoo
Posts: 3,287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Gee, thanks Macfan424

I decided NOT to get myself in "paralysis" mode thinking which one...
Otherwise, I'll be arguing with myself for weeks/months...
I went to the links provided, picking up the 1124 tonight.. I like the idea of being able to save more than one setting.. one for house curve and another for flat response..
These forums are great!

"you're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me"
Questions about the SC-07 or SC-05? start here
CHP_VR is offline  
post #358 of 5559 Old 02-19-2009, 05:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Legairre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 4,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHP_VR View Post

Gee, more toys to look at...
Have to check out the Anti-Mode 8033 now..
Thanks all.. I think

Legairre, thanks for link!

No problem. Make sure you register with the shack and then you'll have access to the BFG Guide. It's a how to manual the shack put together on how to set up the 1124p and take measurements. You'll find it in the BFD Forum.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

Legairre is online now  
post #359 of 5559 Old 02-20-2009, 06:14 AM
Member
 
thejez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
the post on the first page needs to be updated. There is a lot of information that is being left out in the summary. especially post #122 needs to be incorporated.

you guys are very helpful with all your knowledge!
thejez is offline  
post #360 of 5559 Old 02-20-2009, 06:38 AM
Member
 
Thee Kidd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gorham, Maine
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here's a quick question for ya(s). I just lost power to my avr. After I get power restored will I have to re-do my presets(MCACC) or will they stored in the avr?

the grace is being able to like rock music,
symphony music, jazz...
anything that contains the original energy of joy.

charles bukowski
Thee Kidd is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off