"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 193 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5761 of 5784 Old 02-17-2015, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Egidio Concas View Post
mcacc put the surrounds at +1.5 and +2... i put them at +6.

but i try to tilt them down a bit more if i can and go back to +2 (+3 tops..?) lol
Try using a tape measure to get an angle down to your listening position. That should help you tweak the angle directly to you head at the sitting position. I would say you should be able to go down to where MCACC set the levels at.

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couldn't tilt down the plate more so I actually tilted the speaker itself from inside the 2 presses (they're really tight, don't worry...)

do u think i should re-run the mcacc again for this little adjustment?
The compact style mounts the fit to the back are a good solution for speakers like that as they allow a full 360* movement. Just keep an eye on them over time so they don't vibrate out.

It wouldn't hurt to do that, as the mic should now pick up the speakers more precisely with them aimed more closely at it.

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post #5762 of 5784 Old 02-17-2015, 09:30 PM
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What do you all think about this?

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-ent...peaker-set-up/

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Place the SL & SR speakers between 90° to 110° to each side and 2 feet or higher above the listener.
That's what I did, and MCACC didn't do anything crazy with the surrounds.
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post #5763 of 5784 Old 02-17-2015, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Try using a tape measure to get an angle down to your listening position. That should help you tweak the angle directly to you head at the sitting position. I would say you should be able to go down to where MCACC set the levels at.


The compact style mounts the fit to the back are a good solution for speakers like that as they allow a full 360* movement. Just keep an eye on them over time so they don't vibrate out.

It wouldn't hurt to do that, as the mic should now pick up the speakers more precisely with them aimed more closely at it.
will do tomorrow =)

anyway it was just dumb testing out with the matrix only, for instance: now i put a videogame called P.T. (It's a demo for the next silent hill) i could clearly hear the cry of a baby behind me, and the volume was pretty low -30db, while testing out matrix was -5 or 0. Well, it was a silent game tho, not noisy like a movie, but still, i guess im pretty fine =) will run the new mcacc tomorrow since that i've tilted down a bit the surrounds. But anyways im gonna have to do it again in a week when i'll get the sub. By the way, any advice for that? Or the mcacc is gonna complitely take care of that too?
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post #5764 of 5784 Old 02-17-2015, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post
What do you all think about this?

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-ent...peaker-set-up/

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Place the SL & SR speakers between 90? to 110? to each side and 2 feet or higher above the listener.
That's what I did, and MCACC didn't do anything crazy with the surrounds.
You can place your surrounds in the ceiling if you want (I've got a very high end system with that setup) for that matter as long as you focus them at the MLP. A lot of standard surround systems are just based on small rear towers or stand mounted speakers and are by design already at ear height. Some on-walls like the ML motion FX you would have to have at head height as by design they can't be tilted. It's pretty basic stuff really, not that complex.
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post #5765 of 5784 Old 02-17-2015, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Egidio Concas View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Try using a tape measure to get an angle down to your listening position. That should help you tweak the angle directly to you head at the sitting position. I would say you should be able to go down to where MCACC set the levels at.


The compact style mounts the fit to the back are a good solution for speakers like that as they allow a full 360* movement. Just keep an eye on them over time so they don't vibrate out.

It wouldn't hurt to do that, as the mic should now pick up the speakers more precisely with them aimed more closely at it.
will do tomorrow =)

anyway it was just dumb testing out with the matrix only, for instance: now i put a videogame called P.T. (It's a demo for the next silent hill) i could clearly hear the cry of a baby behind me, and the volume was pretty low -30db, while testing out matrix was -5 or 0. Well, it was a silent game tho, not noisy like a movie, but still, i guess im pretty fine =) will run the new mcacc tomorrow since that i've tilted down a bit the surrounds. But anyways im gonna have to do it again in a week when i'll get the sub. By the way, any advice for that? Or the mcacc is gonna complitely take care of that too?
With your sub, which is going finish off your system, try to keep it fairly central ie inside the left or right main speaker - unless you wanted to go with stereo subs, then you go with one left and right of your TV stand. MCACC should sort things out for you without too much drama. Again just go by the guide here if you're unsure of anything. Once you do that you'll wonder why you didn't have a sub before.
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post #5766 of 5784 Old 02-17-2015, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
You can place your surrounds in the ceiling if you want (I've got a very high end system with that setup) for that matter as long as you focus them at the MLP. A lot of standard surround systems are just based on small rear towers or stand mounted speakers and are by design already at ear height. Some on-walls like the ML motion FX you would have to have at head height as by design they can't be tilted. It's pretty basic stuff really, not that complex.
The THX instructions specifically said "2 feet or higher above the listener" for the surrounds, and they didn't say anything about angling them down to the listener. OTOH, they did say angle the center up or down to the listener and to have the fronts at ear height. Clearly, they're not recommending angling the surrounds down.
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post #5767 of 5784 Old 02-17-2015, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post
The THX instructions specifically said "2 feet or higher above the listener" for the surrounds, and they didn't say anything about angling them down to the listener. OTOH, they did say angle the center up or down to the listener and to have the fronts at ear height. Clearly, they're not recommending angling the surrounds down.
It should be mentioned that THX recommends bipolar surround speakers which typically sound best up high. Most recommend setting monopoles higher up as well but it's not a hard and fast rule.

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post #5768 of 5784 Old 02-17-2015, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
You can place your surrounds in the ceiling if you want (I've got a very high end system with that setup) for that matter as long as you focus them at the MLP. A lot of standard surround systems are just based on small rear towers or stand mounted speakers and are by design already at ear height. Some on-walls like the ML motion FX you would have to have at head height as by design they can't be tilted. It's pretty basic stuff really, not that complex.
The THX instructions specifically said "2 feet or higher above the listener" for the surrounds, and they didn't say anything about angling them down to the listener. OTOH, they did say angle the center up or down to the listener and to have the fronts at ear height. Clearly, they're not recommending angling the surrounds down.
Sorry but the thx website isn't the one bible for how to set up surround systems. You'd probably pick up more accurate info from Dolby's various online literature. A lot of their advice comes straight across from actually commercial cinema design. In commercial cinemas sizes are so much larger than the average home cinema that angling doesn't factor in anywhere near so much due to dispersion patterns of large speakers across significant distances. This doesn't work in small home systems with small back wall mounted speakers that are not going to allow for the same kind of dispersion patterns if they are situated too high up. Some people may quote that you don't want surrounds aimed at the MLP and you should let the sound reflect, etc etc. I tend to think in a system where the surrounds are so many times smaller than the mains, you want to give them a chance to be heard by giving them a bit of angle if situated very high up on a wall. If I was going to be really pedantic I'd suggest the surrounds should be wider and corner mounted between 90*-110* than coming from behind like a set of surround backs would be mounted.

From Dolby's website guide for 5.1:

Left and Right Surround Speakers

Surround speakers create a lifelike sense of spaciousness, providing ambient sound within movies. Place the speakers to the sides of the seating area, ideally just above ear height.

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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
It should be mentioned that THX recommends bipolar surround speakers which typically sound best up high. Most recommend setting monopoles higher up as well but it's not a hard and fast rule.
Spot on re THX favoring dipoles. I've got the Motion FX dipoles for surround and back surround duties in my Pioneer system currently and they would be about 2 feet above the listening position and work a treat. I was too hard to get them any higher in that system as the cables had to be sent up from underneath and there was a partition in the wall just above that level.

Last edited by OzHDHT; 02-17-2015 at 11:23 PM.
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post #5769 of 5784 Old 02-17-2015, 10:36 PM
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With your sub, which is going finish off your system, try to keep it fairly central ie inside the left or right main speaker - unless you wanted to go with stereo subs, then you go with one left and right of your TV stand. MCACC should sort things out for you without too much drama. Again just go by the guide here if you're unsure of anything. Once you do that you'll wonder why you didn't have a sub before.
lol, thanks <3

i've been told that since the subwoofer is omnidiretional i can put it almost wherever i want? I'm gonna get the wireless one so i was thinking to put it behind the sofa, so basically between the surrounds, in that wall.
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post #5770 of 5784 Old 02-17-2015, 10:48 PM
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Sorry but the thx website isn't the one bible for how to set up surround systems.
I didn't say it was.

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From Dolby's website guide for 5.1:

Left and Right Surround Speakers

Surround speakers create a lifelike sense of spaciousness, providing ambient sound within movies. Place the speakers to the sides of the seating area, ideally just above ear height.
Also above the ear, and also nothing about angling the speakers down.
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post #5771 of 5784 Old 02-17-2015, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Egidio Concas View Post
lol, thanks <3

i've been told that since the subwoofer is omnidiretional i can put it almost wherever i want? I'm gonna get the wireless one so i was thinking to put it behind the sofa, so basically between the surrounds, in that wall.
Not necessarily. Good idea to do the sub crawl before finalizing a spot.

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post #5772 of 5784 Old 02-17-2015, 10:58 PM
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I didn't say it was.

Also above the ear, and also nothing about angling the speakers down.
When I ran bipolar rears I placed them high up maybe two feet from the ceiling. Now that I have direct firing surrounds I moved them down to just above ear height, less than a foot, and pointed them straight in. The point is there is no hard and fast rule.
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post #5773 of 5784 Old 02-17-2015, 11:34 PM
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I didn't say it was.

Also above the ear, and also nothing about angling the speakers down.
Semantics..You may not have but you were basing your entire argument on the one THX guide.

Yeah and as we often discover a based set of recommendations as Sage11x also pointed out, isn't the set in stone gospel for all installs. Just like you don't tend to see any references to in-ceiling speakers in surround sound speaker placement guides (other than ATMOS), but there are plenty of good manufacturers who spec systems with them, Revel comes to mind for one.

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lol, thanks <3

i've been told that since the subwoofer is omnidiretional i can put it almost wherever i want? I'm gonna get the wireless one so i was thinking to put it behind the sofa, so basically between the surrounds, in that wall.
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Not necessarily. Good idea to do the sub crawl before finalizing a spot.
+1
Sage11x is right and there's a ton of advice on sub placement on the forum - searching is your best friend here. That's a bit of an old HT myth about subs. Yes it can be hard to localise very low frequencies but as you hit the upper frequency of your subs crossover, it's position will start to reveal itself. That's why I gave you general placement advice to start you off.


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post #5774 of 5784 Old 02-18-2015, 01:25 AM
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Semantics..You may not have but you were basing your entire argument on the one THX guide.
I didn't make "an argument". After reading some specific advice here about "tilting the surrounds down", I presented what THX recommends, and I asked what people thought about it. I did this because the advice being given here was different than what I remembered reading, and in a subsequent message, I stated that following the THX guidelines did not result in MCACC doing anything crazy with my surrounds. As they say, the speakers are there to supply ambient or enveloping effects, and neither THX nor Dolby recommend pointing them at the listener's ears as they do with the fronts and center. Based on this, now I will make the argument that it's fine to follow their advice and not worry about it unless the speakers are more than a couple of feet above the users head or MCACC is doing crazy things with them.
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post #5775 of 5784 Old 02-18-2015, 05:11 PM
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Semantics..You may not have but you were basing your entire argument on the one THX guide.
I didn't make "an argument". After reading some specific advice here about "tilting the surrounds down", I presented what THX recommends, and I asked what people thought about it. I did this because the advice being given here was different than what I remembered reading, and in a subsequent message, I stated that following the THX guidelines did not result in MCACC doing anything crazy with my surrounds. As they say, the speakers are there to supply ambient or enveloping effects, and neither THX nor Dolby recommend pointing them at the listener's ears as they do with the fronts and center. Based on this, now I will make the argument that it's fine to follow their advice and not worry about it unless the speakers are more than a couple of feet above the users head or MCACC is doing crazy things with them.

Good to hear man.
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I'm about to buy an SVS PB1000!

I haven't got much space left for the sub.. i was thinking either here:



Would the couch be a problem? Or is it good to absorb the sound?

the other solution would be here next to the right tower but I'm afraid of the stairwell, i mean, im afraid it will bomb downstairs through that and also make vibrate the handrails (they vibrate only if u scream or clap ur hands basically...ahahhaha)



what should I do?
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post #5777 of 5784 Old 02-19-2015, 07:37 PM
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Hello, Just pickup a SC-87 from local Bestbuy. This is an upgrade from a SC-07. My current setup is 5.1. In additional to the L C R speaker, I am also haveing 2 additional smaller speaker mount on the front wall above the 2 LF speaker ( from the old setup on a Yamaha Amp ). Question, Is it better to angle the speaker down toward the seating area, or anlge up toward the ceiling and reflect the sound down toward the seating area for the Dolby Atmos. Or move those speaker to the back wall and angle down ( prefer noy to if possible ). Thanks the help.
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post #5778 of 5784 Old 02-20-2015, 12:16 AM
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Hello, Just pickup a SC-87 from local Bestbuy. This is an upgrade from a SC-07. My current setup is 5.1. In additional to the L C R speaker, I am also haveing 2 additional smaller speaker mount on the front wall above the 2 LF speaker ( from the old setup on a Yamaha Amp ). Question, Is it better to angle the speaker down toward the seating area, or anlge up toward the ceiling and reflect the sound down toward the seating area for the Dolby Atmos. Or move those speaker to the back wall and angle down ( prefer noy to if possible ). Thanks the help.
That's not the correct Dolby ATMOS speaker location by a long shot. You are effectively trying to use the location where you'd have Front Height speakers for ATMOS. They only way atmos is meant to work from the front of the room is via custom aux speaker units that sit on top of your existing floor standards as per what definitive Tech are offering with their A60 module and very similarly KEF have a module. They are designed to have angled driver that correctly bounce the ATMOS channel sound at angle to the middle of your ceiling and back down on to your head. Trying to angle up a wall mounted speaker to create a similar effect is not going to give you a decent result. ATMOS is really only works properly when you have overhead speakers in close to the listen area. Any other method sold to try to cut corners by bouncing sound of the ceiling is going to come a poor second to properly set up ATMOS speakers.

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That's not the correct Dolby ATMOS speaker location by a long shot. You are effectively trying to use the location where you'd have Front Height speakers for ATMOS. They only way atmos is meant to work from the front of the room is via custom aux speaker units that sit on top of your existing floor standards as per what definitive Tech are offering with their A60 module and very similarly KEF have a module. They are designed to have angled driver that correctly bounce the ATMOS channel sound at angle to the middle of your ceiling and back down on to your head. Trying to angle up a wall mounted speaker to create a similar effect is not going to give you a decent result. ATMOS is really only works properly when you have overhead speakers in close to the listen area. Any other method sold to try to cut corners by bouncing sound of the ceiling is going to come a poor second to properly set up ATMOS speakers.
Thanks for the quick feedback. I gets the next best thing is to move those speaker toward the back/side wall ( my seating area is about 1 foot from the back wall ), and aim them into the seating area?
Cause mounting the speaker on the ceiling is not possible. thanks..
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post #5780 of 5784 Old 02-20-2015, 08:09 PM
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That's not the correct Dolby ATMOS speaker location by a long shot. You are effectively trying to use the location where you'd have Front Height speakers for ATMOS. They only way atmos is meant to work from the front of the room is via custom aux speaker units that sit on top of your existing floor standards as per what definitive Tech are offering with their A60 module and very similarly KEF have a module. They are designed to have angled driver that correctly bounce the ATMOS channel sound at angle to the middle of your ceiling and back down on to your head. Trying to angle up a wall mounted speaker to create a similar effect is not going to give you a decent result. ATMOS is really only works properly when you have overhead speakers in close to the listen area. Any other method sold to try to cut corners by bouncing sound of the ceiling is going to come a poor second to properly set up ATMOS speakers.
Thanks for the quick feedback. I gets the next best thing is to move those speaker toward the back/side wall ( my seating area is about 1 foot from the back wall ), and aim them into the seating area?
Cause mounting the speaker on the ceiling is not possible. thanks..

Even still you won't get truly directional sound effects that way. It's seriously almost not worth trying to compromise with that arrangement. Why not head over to the atmos thread for further advice.
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post #5781 of 5784 Old 02-28-2015, 05:31 PM
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Hi guys i am wanting to do a MCACC auto set up but cant seem to get an on screen display on my Samsung tv using my sclx86 receiver. I hope i have posted this in the correct thread and any help would be great. Thanks

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post #5782 of 5784 Old 02-28-2015, 07:58 PM
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Problem solved thanks anyway guy.

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post #5783 of 5784 Old Yesterday, 08:57 PM
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What you should do is ditch the svs and buy a PSA xs30se :-)
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What you should do is ditch the svs and buy a PSA xs30se :-)
or a Rythmik fv15hp.....

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