"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 196 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5851 of 5880 Old 06-28-2015, 04:52 PM
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ArchonX, great guide there. I have 2 new front Martin Logans and a new center going into my system that has a LX-88 in it this week. Going to use your workflow for it. I tend to agree with you about the quality of MCACC Pro, with the exception of when you get to much more expensive systems that use say RoomPerfect (and I suspect Dirac Live) as I've got in another other room setup.

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Originally Posted by JAMES MCHUGHES View Post
Archon
Loved the info you just posted in the room. How about positions of mic placement after main seat I would like to hear your thoughts
But there's only 1 mic position with MCACC Pro, unlike other RC systems.


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post #5852 of 5880 Old 06-28-2015, 04:58 PM
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I have the pioneer sc79
Archonx's workflow would not work with my receiver ?
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post #5853 of 5880 Old 06-28-2015, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JAMES MCHUGHES View Post
I have the pioneer sc79
Archonx's workflow would not work with my receiver ?
Care to clarify? I won't be able to redo my system till later in the week. From reading his workflow, I can't see why it wouldn't handle the LX-88 in my system.

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post #5854 of 5880 Old 06-28-2015, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMES MCHUGHES View Post
I have the pioneer sc79
Archonx's workflow would not work with my receiver ?
Care to clarify? I won't be able to redo my system till later in the week. From reading his workflow, I can't see why it wouldn't handle the LX-88 in my system.
That's my question I thought it should also. Just thinking it may be for mcacc pro ?
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post #5855 of 5880 Old 06-29-2015, 05:22 PM
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That's my question I thought it should also. Just thinking it may be for mcacc pro ?
I wasn't across which models didn't have MCACC Pro, but I see the SC-79 seems to lack it. In which case, its most probably not a workflow for you - you're better off with the original tips from page 1.

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post #5856 of 5880 Old 06-29-2015, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAMES MCHUGHES View Post
That's my question I thought it should also. Just thinking it may be for mcacc pro ?
I wasn't across which models didn't have MCACC Pro, but I see the SC-79 seems to lack it. In which case, its most probably not a workflow for you - you're better off with the original tips from page 1.
From page 1 ?
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post #5857 of 5880 Old 06-30-2015, 10:14 AM
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Hello All,
I recently purchased a used Pioneer SC 68 and am having some problems setting up MCACC. I hope this is the right place to post this question. I've searched on the forum as well as the web in general but haven't found anything to help me. If this is has been discussed please let me know, I don't want to waste any ones time.


The first time I ran Full Auto MCACC I got a few errors saying the speaker wire were reversed, I checked to make sure then proceeded. The results across the front three channels was much better than my old system but I could not hear the surrounds (5.1)unless I climb a ladder to get close to the speakers. So I decided to change the direction the surrounds were pointing and rerun MCACC, and the fun began!


The program starts out alright, but gives different front left, right or, center speaker reverse polarity errors. Then when I tell it to continue, it does but it drops the sub and both surrounds from the test. The speakers are all M & K, LCR-35 across the front three channels, two LCR-25's for the surrounds and a sub.


I know this must be user error, any input will be appreciated.


Thank You
John

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post #5858 of 5880 Old 06-30-2015, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
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From page 1 ?

Ahh yeah the tips on page 1, the very first post...

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post #5859 of 5880 Old 06-30-2015, 07:36 PM
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The first time I ran Full Auto MCACC I got a few errors saying the speaker wire were reversed,<elided>
This is common and nothing to worry about. Depending upon the test tone frequency, speaker design and distance, and room interaction MCACC (or any program) may think your speakers are reversed in polarity. Check the wires and if they are OK then just move on as it says in the manual. MCACC will deal with it. Nothing to worry about and not user error (unless the speakers really are wired wrongly but it will even compensate that).

HTH - Don

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post #5860 of 5880 Old 07-01-2015, 12:12 PM
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Thank You DonH50, that's what I thought.


What about it dropping the sub and surrounds? Any ideas about that?
John
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post #5861 of 5880 Old 07-04-2015, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
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Thank You DonH50, that's what I thought.


What about it dropping the sub and surrounds? Any ideas about that?
John
You should really only get supposed phase errors on the surrounds (and largely because they face each other) or if you use dipoles, those will generate phase errors because they're sending both an in-phase and an out-of-phase signal.

It should not drop anything, but in MCACC, go into manual level mode and you can manually test each speaker. As long as you get a signal to each speaker (in turn) during that test, ignore everything else. Also, manually run the phase test. It will play two speakers at a time both in-phase and out-of-phase. You're looking for a solid (rather than diffuse) image in-between each set of two speakers during the in-phase test. If it sounds diffuse during the in-phase test, then either wires are reversed or the particular speaker is internally wired backwards. Just reverse the wiring. (At least I'm pretty sure that the MCACC setup has that phase test - I might be thinking about a test disc I have instead.)
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post #5862 of 5880 Old 07-07-2015, 08:21 AM
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Thank You Zoetmb,


I had figured out by reading Lexicon1's great tutorial how to make MCACC save my speaker configuration(5.1), on full auto it says I don't have a sub or surrounds. I'll try to run the phase test manually. I still have really low volume on the surrounds, I have to get within two feet of the speaker before I can hear it. I'm going to try pointing the surrounds a different direction.


John
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post #5863 of 5880 Old 07-14-2015, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68bullitt View Post
Thank You Zoetmb,


I had figured out by reading Lexicon1's great tutorial how to make MCACC save my speaker configuration(5.1), on full auto it says I don't have a sub or surrounds. I'll try to run the phase test manually. I still have really low volume on the surrounds, I have to get within two feet of the speaker before I can hear it. I'm going to try pointing the surrounds a different direction.


John
It's common on real-world material for the surrounds to sound very low. But with the test tones, the surround (and sub) levels should sound normal. Make sure you haven't shorted any connections.
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post #5864 of 5880 Old 08-06-2015, 05:24 PM
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Has anyone else lost that sense of movement after following the provided workflow?

I did the workflow and as others, the sound was great. SFXs seemed to pop of the speakers.

My only problem was that it felt like there wasn't as much movement around the sound field.

Im running a vsx90 atmos.
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post #5865 of 5880 Old 08-06-2015, 05:24 PM
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Has anyone else lost that sense of movement after following the provided workflow?

I did the workflow and as others, the sound was great. SFXs seemed to pop of the speakers.

My only problem was that it felt like there wasn't as much movement around the sound field.

Im running a vsx90 atmos.
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post #5866 of 5880 Old 08-06-2015, 07:15 PM
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Can you define what you mean by "sense of movement"? Off-hand it sounds like the surrounds may be a little low in volume relative to the mains.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #5867 of 5880 Old 08-07-2015, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
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Can you define what you mean by "sense of movement"? Off-hand it sounds like the surrounds may be a little low in volume relative to the mains.

Yeah, so think of the jurrasic park scene where the trex comes out of the cage and he snaps the wire. Normally the sound starts at the right and then travel to the left. Thats what I mean by sense of movement, hopefully that makes sense.

And I thought about that too, where the surrounds are to low compared to the rest of the system however, when I went into the ch levels, they weren't low per se compared to the rest of the speakers.

I was just wondering if anyone else had any ideas.
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post #5868 of 5880 Old 08-07-2015, 11:55 AM
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You could go ahead and turn up the surround trims by 3 dB to see if it gets any better. Also verify that, even if with low volume, the sound is doing the right thing (panning left to right in your example). You could turn down the mains to make it easier to tell. MCACC may have put the surrounds where it thought they should be but that doesn't mean they aren't a little too low for you.

Also double-check you are using the right surround mode (I leave my SC-27 in Auto most of the time; sometimes I forget after running some tests and that will really mess things up).

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post #5869 of 5880 Old 08-08-2015, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
You could go ahead and turn up the surround trims by 3 dB to see if it gets any better. Also verify that, even if with low volume, the sound is doing the right thing (panning left to right in your example). You could turn down the mains to make it easier to tell. MCACC may have put the surrounds where it thought they should be but that doesn't mean they aren't a little too low for you.

Also double-check you are using the right surround mode (I leave my SC-27 in Auto most of the time; sometimes I forget after running some tests and that will really mess things up).
Yeah that makes sense, I bumped up the surrounds and I re ran the workflow, everything seems to be solid now. thanks.
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post #5870 of 5880 Old 08-19-2015, 11:36 PM
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Question

Just got a new set of speakers for my LX87 and I want to calibrate them using this guide. Should I set them up as small or large speakers before i begin calibration?

These are the speakers in question:
Triangle Antal EZ
Triangle Comete EZ
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Sub. Definitive Tech SuperCube 8000

http://triangle-fr.com/esprit-ez-en.php

At which crossover should I set my sub?

Anything else I should think about befor I begin?

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post #5871 of 5880 Old 08-20-2015, 06:11 AM
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1. Small. That really means "use bass management" and takes the load off the main L/R speakers, improving overall system performance. Let the sub do its thing.

2. 80 Hz -- remember Pioneer uses the same crossover for all speakers and you do not want to overload the center and surrounds. Your L/R are rated to 40 Hz, and setting the crossover an octave above that will really help their performance, so the default answer of 80 Hz is good for you IMO. That is a good starting point and is a great final point for the vast majority of systems and speakers.

3. (a) Think about getting an inexpensive boom microphone stand to hold the calibration microphone if you do not have one. That way you can put it right where it should be (ear level at the main listening position) and hold it rigidly without impacting the measurements (like a pile of books might do). Mic stands can be had for from $20 to many hundreds of dollars. You can pick one up at a local store (Guitar Center or similar) or online. Here is an inexpensive one: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicStdFBoomL

(b) If you can, consider placing your subwoofer for optimum frequency response by doing the sub crawl (search AVS) before starting MCACC.

(c) Make sure the room is quiet. Turn off any loud noise sources that may be present like air conditioning or the washing machine in the next room. You do not have to clear the room, but things that are not normally in there should be removed. Make sure nothing is between the mic and speakers when running MCACC. I typically lay on the floor so I am not interfering with the calibration. Besides, it gets loud.

HTH - Don
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post #5872 of 5880 Old 08-20-2015, 06:44 AM
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
1. Small. That really means "use bass management" and takes the load off the main L/R speakers, improving overall system performance. Let the sub do its thing.

2. 80 Hz -- remember Pioneer uses the same crossover for all speakers and you do not want to overload the center and surrounds. Your L/R are rated to 40 Hz, and setting the crossover an octave above that will really help their performance, so the default answer of 80 Hz is good for you IMO. That is a good starting point and is a great final point for the vast majority of systems and speakers.

3. (a) Think about getting an inexpensive boom microphone stand to hold the calibration microphone if you do not have one. That way you can put it right where it should be (ear level at the main listening position) and hold it rigidly without impacting the measurements (like a pile of books might do). Mic stands can be had for from $20 to many hundreds of dollars. You can pick one up at a local store (Guitar Center or similar) or online. Here is an inexpensive one: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicStdFBoomL

(b) If you can, consider placing your subwoofer for optimum frequency response by doing the sub crawl (search AVS) before starting MCACC.

(c) Make sure the room is quiet. Turn off any loud noise sources that may be present like air conditioning or the washing machine in the next room. You do not have to clear the room, but things that are not normally in there should be removed. Make sure nothing is between the mic and speakers when running MCACC. I typically lay on the floor so I am not interfering with the calibration. Besides, it gets loud.

HTH - Don
When I asked my store how to set it up they said to set large when running bi-amp, which i'm doing. Is this also correct or should I set them to small anyway? Thanks for the quick answer.

When setting crossover is it correct to set it in receiver to 80hz and then turn crossover all the way up on the sub to let the receiver take care of things?

Panasonic TX-65AX800E • Pioneer BDP-LX58 MR • VU+ Solo2 • Playstation 4 • Pioneer SC-LX87 • Triangle Antal EZ • Triangle Comete EZ • Triangle Voce EZ • Definitive Technology Supercube 8000 •
Logitech Harmony Touch Ultimate • Sony Xperia Tablet Z4 • Sonos Bridge/Connect/Play:1/Play:5/Playbar

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post #5873 of 5880 Old 08-20-2015, 06:59 AM
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You can do what you want but I would set them to small. Bi-amping does not change the frequency range of your speakers. They will still roll off well above the sub, will interact with the sub at frequencies above that (potentially corrupting the frequency response), and large LF signals will cause your speakers to distort without adding any benefit down in the sub's region.

I would not bi-amp. The way AVR's do it is not helpful. You really need to split the high and low signals before the power amps to take gain the benefits of increased amplifier headroom, and need to bypass the crossovers in the speakers to gain the benefits of lower output impedance and better crossover control. Bi-amping with the AVR just uses more wires with insignificant (essentially no) audible benefit. It does consume a bit more power and generate a bit more heat but that is rarely a benefit. It is primarily a marketing thing.

If your sub does not have an LFE input, then yes the best thing to do is to set the sub's crossover to its maximum frequency.
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post #5874 of 5880 Old 08-27-2015, 10:08 PM
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Quick question...Yesterday I got some new SVS prime speakers in. I ran mcacc yesterday, but moved the positioning of the speakers a little bit and ran it again. This last time running mcacc, the tripod and mic were off center by a couple inches. I didn't notice until I went to put the spl meter on the tripod when I was done to double check the speaker levels. This might so ridiculous, but should I run it again since the mic was a couple inches off? Do you think just manually adjusting the speaker distances would be enough?

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post #5875 of 5880 Old Yesterday, 02:43 PM
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The wavelength of 2" is about 6.8 kHz. Whether or not the change matters depends upon how your system and room are set up. I wouldn't worry about it. Better yet, if your version allows multiple measurements, I would take several measurements at slightly different spots for calibration.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #5876 of 5880 Old Yesterday, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
The wavelength of 2" is about 6.8 kHz. Whether or not the change matters depends upon how your system and room are set up. I wouldn't worry about it. Better yet, if your version allows multiple measurements, I would take several measurements at slightly different spots for calibration.
It allows three spots for measurement. I only did the calibration in the sweet spot. I figured since I sit nowhere else why bother. It honestly sounds really good as it is.

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post #5877 of 5880 Old Yesterday, 07:50 PM
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The advantage of doing more measurements is to average out any narrow-band (e.g. comb filter effects). If you move your head around the sweet spot and there is no change, then you are done. If the sound changes a bit, doing three measurements tight around the MLP could still be helpful. Pink noise is useful for this, and taking measurements will quickly show differences (if any) among mic positions.

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post #5878 of 5880 Old Yesterday, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
The advantage of doing more measurements is to average out any narrow-band (e.g. comb filter effects). If you move your head around the sweet spot and there is no change, then you are done. If the sound changes a bit, doing three measurements tight around the MLP could still be helpful. Pink noise is useful for this, and taking measurements will quickly show differences (if any) among mic positions.
Awesome, thanks for the advice. I have one more question regarding mcacc. What would the difference be between adjusting individual channel gains, and adjusting the trim in the advanced eq adjust?

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post #5879 of 5880 Old Yesterday, 09:47 PM
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You can sort of accomplish the same thing but the topic of gain structure and optimization is beyond the scope of this thread. The channel and EQ trims are applied at different stages in the signal flow to help keep noise and distortion minimized (and thus dynamic range maximized). EQ changes the gain structure, that is the signal levels, at that point in the chain so it is helpful to have control to ensure the input to the EQ does not overdrive it, and the output does not overdrive the next stage. If you raise/lower an EQ band, it will raise/lower the overall signal level as well, so you need to compensate that.

HTH - Don

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post #5880 of 5880 Old Today, 05:18 PM
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I am writing because I finally got rid of the "applying settings" and "starting hmg" frozen screens and had the same plight that man here seem to be experiencing. My fix was simple - unplug the receiver physically from the back of the receiver for ~ 20 seconds and plugging it back in.

In my case, this happened whilst I was trying to debug a network issue. I went back to the network screen and it did say "applying settings", but this time it went away after some time and really did apply the settings. It seems that the screen ("applying settings" and "starting h.m.g) gets frozen if it is not able to reach the network.
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