"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 201 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6001 of 6030 Old 01-10-2016, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by lagolas View Post
Though I prefer avoiding buying more equipment for calibration. Instead I will use my phone with measurement apps, and use gene c353 advice.
You need a calibrated mic for measuring and setting EQ. The mic of a phone isn't accurate enough nor calibrated.

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There is little to no knowledge out in the web about it.
There's a ton of info out there how to use (parametric) EQ. The EQ available in MCACC is just very limited.

Markus

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post #6002 of 6030 Old 01-10-2016, 11:58 PM
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Is the work flow still the same with the new avr's? I just picked up a 95 mainly cause my move to ATMOS. And I'm using external amps anyway for over a year now through my ol SC09.
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post #6003 of 6030 Old 01-11-2016, 12:04 AM
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Thanks markus, I will try to get my hands on a calibrated mic. Also I will try REW, I am not an expert when it comes to calibration, there are a lot of terms which I don't know.

Problem is that I can hear better than I can calibrate...
I know that acoustic treatment can help a lot and in fact it is one of the major effect in the audio equation.

Since my living room is an acoustic disaster I will probably find it hard to calibrate the sound to my liking.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
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post #6004 of 6030 Old 01-11-2016, 06:59 AM
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What exactly is occurring if I set me speakers to Small, cross them at 80hz and then select PLUS for the subwoofer?
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post #6005 of 6030 Old 01-11-2016, 07:52 AM
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PLUS should not add anything to speakers set to small, only to large. That said, I have not tried it...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6006 of 6030 Old 01-11-2016, 10:17 AM
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PLUS should not add anything to speakers set to small, only to large. That said, I have not tried it...
Thanks Don. I didn't think so either but noticed the PLUS setting can be engaged with these settings. I'm curious to know if it's doing anything.
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post #6007 of 6030 Old 01-11-2016, 10:52 AM
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I suspect the plus setting is independent of the speaker settings in the sense that you can enable it, but any subwoofer frequencies will be filtered by the internal crossover before reaching the speakers. Programmers just did not couple them, or treated it as a global setting and handled it later in the signal chain.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6008 of 6030 Old 01-11-2016, 12:48 PM
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I can't seem to find a whole lot of information or guides concerning Advanced MCACC so I figure I'll just ask.
I'm trying to get my receiver connected to my pc and wonder if this is the cable that would work
http://www.amazon.ca/StarTech-com-IC...ter+null+modem
Its a female RS232 to usb with null modem.

Thanks in advance
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post #6009 of 6030 Old 01-11-2016, 04:55 PM
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What are you trying to do? What receiver? Etc
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post #6010 of 6030 Old 01-11-2016, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by scoobdude View Post
What are you trying to do? What receiver? Etc
Trying to connect the receiver to my pc for advanced mcacc. The manual recommends a female to female crossover rs232 but only mentions usb working as well without any further details.
My receiver is the VSX9130TXH
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post #6011 of 6030 Old 01-12-2016, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I suspect the plus setting is independent of the speaker settings in the sense that you can enable it, but any subwoofer frequencies will be filtered by the internal crossover before reaching the speakers. Programmers just did not couple them, or treated it as a global setting and handled it later in the signal chain.
On my older VSX-23 and SC-25 the subwoofers Plus and None settings are only available when the front speakers are set to Large. When the fronts are set to Small the sub is automatically set to Yes and is not adjustable.
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post #6012 of 6030 Old 01-12-2016, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by gene c353 View Post
On my older VSX-23 and SC-25 the subwoofers Plus and None settings are only available when the front speakers are set to Large. When the fronts are set to Small the sub is automatically set to Yes and is not adjustable.
Something must have changed since then because the newer models allow you to select PLUS when all the speakers are set to Small, including the fronts.
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post #6013 of 6030 Old 01-12-2016, 08:37 AM
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I never (or hardly ever, not since the early initial setup) used the sub output on my SC-27 so didn't really look, would not use "plus" normally anyway, and no longer have it in my system so a triple strike against me figuring it out. The old way makes much more sense, however; I suspect programming glitch in the UI.

It's possible they did it to allow LFE content between the crossover and upper LFE limit to be sent to the other speakers. The early models (like my SC-27) tossed that LFE content. That is, if you set the xover to 80 Hz, my SC-27 will ignore any LFE signal between 80 and 120 Hz; the newer models may send that to the mains when you use "plus". Just guessing though.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6014 of 6030 Old 01-22-2016, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
It's possible they did it to allow LFE content between the crossover and upper LFE limit to be sent to the other speakers. The early models (like my SC-27) tossed that LFE content. That is, if you set the xover to 80 Hz, my SC-27 will ignore any LFE signal between 80 and 120 Hz; the newer models may send that to the mains when you use "plus". Just guessing though.
I suspect with the crossover set to 80Hz that the LFE signal content between 80 and 120 Hz is rolled off at 24dB per octave above 80 Hz rather than "ignored." I don't believe that there is any evidence that any of Pioneer receivers send any LFE content to the mains under any circumstances.
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post #6015 of 6030 Old 01-22-2016, 11:15 AM
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Yes, that is true for the signal sent to the subwoofer, my bad for being sloppy.

Some* AVRs send LFE content (along with everything else) above the crossover frequency to the mains. Pioneer does not, at least mine does not.

* Perhaps most? I am not sure, only have Pio, Sony, and Denon in the house that handle LFE and have not checked my XMC-1. Sony and Denon send LFE over crossover to the mains.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6016 of 6030 Old 01-22-2016, 11:37 AM
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Sony and Denon send LFE over crossover to the mains.
I wonder in those cases if the LFE content being delivered to the mains is boosted 10 dB as it would be when being delivered to a subwoofer. I'm not sure that asking a satellite speaker to deliver a reference level peak of 115 dB at 80-150Hz to the listening position is necessarily a good thing (depending on the speaker).
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post #6017 of 6030 Old 01-22-2016, 11:56 AM
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Yes, amplitude is correctly boosted on mine, and agree probably not the best thing for a little speaker to deal with... Fortunately my little speakers are fairly big and I do not listen that loudly.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6018 of 6030 Old 01-22-2016, 03:34 PM
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What is the lowest frequency that mcacc sub EQ corrects?
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post #6019 of 6030 Old 01-22-2016, 07:30 PM
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I just added a center channel to my 2.1 system. MCACC was telling me the center channel was out of phase. I have everything setup for bi-amping. The speakers are not out of phase and setup properly.

After running MCACC my system sounds horrible. cross over is at 80 and front set to small subwoofer yes.

The whole system now sound anemic and flat. Any ideas?

Speakers are KEF Q900 and Q600c with a XS30 sub.
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post #6020 of 6030 Old 01-22-2016, 07:42 PM
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I just added a center channel to my 2.1 system. MCACC was telling me the center channel was out of phase. I have everything setup for bi-amping. The speakers are not out of phase and setup properly.

After running MCACC my system sounds horrible. cross over is at 80 and front set to small subwoofer yes.

The whole system now sound anemic and flat. Any ideas?

Speakers are KEF Q900 and Q600c with a XS30 sub.
Sometimes MCACC gets it wrong for phase, if you're sure its setup correctly you can probably ignore it (or possibly your center is wired out of phase internally). You'd do better by setting all your speakers to "small" when using a nice sub like that (and if your fronts are set to large then the crossover isn't even being used so surprised you have a crossover to set....)
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post #6021 of 6030 Old 01-22-2016, 08:54 PM
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Make sure the mic is at the listening position, ear level, preferably on a tripod, and run it again. You can try moving the mic back and forth a bit as well. If that doesn't work there are other things to try, but every now and then the cal program (any of them) misses the boat.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6022 of 6030 Old 01-31-2016, 05:39 PM
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Hi all,

Curious if MCACC (in the top line) has changed much in 2016 to what it was back in 2012-2013?

Specially if (1) it does NOT down sample hi-res audio? [theres some confusion on this].

(2) If it lets users set different x-over settings for different speakers? I'd like to change front crossover vs. center/rear

(3) any other changes like algorithm, more measurements, better microphone, etc.
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post #6023 of 6030 Unread 02-01-2016, 06:13 AM
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Hi all,

Curious if MCACC (in the top line) has changed much in 2016 to what it was back in 2012-2013?

Specially if (1) it does NOT down sample hi-res audio? [theres some confusion on this].

(2) If it lets users set different x-over settings for different speakers? I'd like to change front crossover vs. center/rear

(3) any other changes like algorithm, more measurements, better microphone, etc.
1. Do not know
2. No
3. They added subwoofer EQ and true stereo sub outputs in 2014. MCACC also calibrates up-firing atmos speakers now. Do not know about your specifics here.
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post #6024 of 6030 Unread 02-01-2016, 12:23 PM
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1. Do not know
2. No
3. They added subwoofer EQ and true stereo sub outputs in 2014. MCACC also calibrates up-firing atmos speakers now. Do not know about your specifics here.
You sure about the stereo sub outputs? Are you sure they're not just separately measurable sub outs? Not much reason for stereo sub outs.
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post #6025 of 6030 Unread 02-02-2016, 02:55 AM
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1. Do not know
2. No
3. They added subwoofer EQ and true stereo sub outputs in 2014. MCACC also calibrates up-firing atmos speakers now. Do not know about your specifics here.
If I recall correctly from experience in MCACC on the VSX-924 (MCACC Advanced, which is the medium level variant of MCACC) there is an on/off toggle for up-sampling to 24-bit. I would think therefore, that it is not downsampling hi-res.
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You sure about the stereo sub outputs? Are you sure they're not just separately measurable sub outs? Not much reason for stereo sub outs.
I only know what Pioneer advertises and what came before. Folks who took the cover off their receiver discovered that, in previous models, the two sub outs were wired to a common connection inside. That is (presumably) not the case anymore.

When the receiver does bass management for sources like stereo music, or if the crossover is set high enough, I would think there would definitely be reasons for stereo sub outs. You may not consider them good reasons, but they would exist.
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post #6028 of 6030 Unread Today, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by dscottj View Post
I only know what Pioneer advertises and what came before. Folks who took the cover off their receiver discovered that, in previous models, the two sub outs were wired to a common connection inside. That is (presumably) not the case anymore.

When the receiver does bass management for sources like stereo music, or if the crossover is set high enough, I would think there would definitely be reasons for stereo sub outs. You may not consider them good reasons, but they would exist.
Where does Pioneer advertise these are stereo sub outs? I can't think of any mainstream avr that has stereo sub outs, and would be very surprised Pioneer had one. True, usually dual sub preouts are simply utilizing an internal splitter, the outputs are identical. The avrs with Audyssey SubEQ/XT32 can measure two subs for delay/level but eq's them together and they are not stereo (i.e. separate L/R channels for bass; the LFE/.1 channel is only mono)....
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post #6029 of 6030 Unread Today, 12:03 PM
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I forget how utterly charming audiophiles can be sometimes.

"How advanced is MCACC Pro? So advanced that Pioneer engineers have included dual independent subwoofer outputs, each with individual EQ. Tailoring left- and right-channel low frequency response curves lets you achieve optimum subwoofer performance based on specific room placement..."

Citation: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eceivers/SC-89

"Let’s note in passing that along with being Atmos-compatible, MCACC Pro features other refinements, including room correction for dual independent subs."

Citation: http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...eceiver-review

However, I went through the manual and it does not label them as L and R, only 1 and 2. Still, I can't help but think that, since it does in fact EQ them separately, the connections are physically separate and seem to be doing a bit more than even the highest level of Audyssey available at this time.

So, while pedantic, it would seem you have a point. In other words, you are technically correct, sir. The very best kind of correct there is!
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post #6030 of 6030 Unread Today, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dscottj View Post
I forget how utterly charming audiophiles can be sometimes.

"How advanced is MCACC Pro? So advanced that Pioneer engineers have included dual independent subwoofer outputs, each with individual EQ. Tailoring left- and right-channel low frequency response curves lets you achieve optimum subwoofer performance based on specific room placement..."

Citation: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...eceivers/SC-89

"Let’s note in passing that along with being Atmos-compatible, MCACC Pro features other refinements, including room correction for dual independent subs."

Citation: http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...eceiver-review

However, I went through the manual and it does not label them as L and R, only 1 and 2. Still, I can't help but think that, since it does in fact EQ them separately, the connections are physically separate and seem to be doing a bit more than even the highest level of Audyssey available at this time.

So, while pedantic, it would seem you have a point. In other words, you are technically correct, sir. The very best kind of correct there is!
Don't think of myself as an audiophool much altho I like audio reproduction just fine, but I am one charming mother****er.

That's pretty interesting and I didn't find that much with the search I did. I'd heard before MCACC Pro emulated XT32/SubEQ somewhat and I've also seen comments about MCACC Pro that the separate treatment wasn't very evident as well.

It would be interesting I suppose to have the ability to channel specific L/R channel bass content to subwoofers placed also L/R like the mains, but that isn't necessarily going to get the best benefits of dual subs.
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