"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 210 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6271 of 6296 Old 01-30-2017, 02:44 PM
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Do their newer AVRs still set LFE LPF and crossover frequencies the same, or did they finally decouple them?

Curious - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #6272 of 6296 Old 01-30-2017, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trp3383 View Post
I have a Vsx-90 that comes with mcacc pro. I can not for the life of me get it to recognize my 2nd sub when doing calibration. How are you guys getting it to calibrate the your 2 sub independently? Thanks
According to your owner's manual, pages 21, 24, 40, 41 & 48:
Quote:
If you have two subwoofers, the second subwoofer can be connected to the SUBWOOFER 2 terminal.
Connecting two subwoofers increases the bass sound to achieve more powerful sound reproduction. In this case, the same sound is output from the two subwoofers.
So it appears that your model does not feature the "Independent dual subwoofer output" which is included on some models. This means you cannot calibrate them independently, and the sum of both will be recognized as a single sub during calibration. I recommend gain matching the subs if possible (easy if the subwoofers have a fixed input level option, such as a "THX fixed" setting) as discussed in Two Subs...Gain Matching vs Level Matching.

Last edited by KC-Technerd; 01-31-2017 at 12:28 AM.
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post #6273 of 6296 Old 01-31-2017, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by primetime74 View Post
I still can't access the MCACC menu on my TV, despite everything working. Any help would be appreciated.
Make sure the TV is selected to the HMDI input that is connected to your receiver. Press the "HOME MENU" button on the remote. After a brief delay the HOME MENU should appear on screen giving you access to the MCACC menu (probably labeled "Advanced MCACC," "MCACC Pro," or something similar).
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post #6274 of 6296 Old 01-31-2017, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
Make sure the TV is selected to the HMDI input that is connected to your receiver. Press the "HOME MENU" button on the remote. After a brief delay the HOME MENU should appear on screen giving you access to the MCACC menu (probably labeled "Advanced MCACC," "MCACC Pro," or something similar).
That's the thing, it worked before. Then it suddenly wouldn't come up.

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post #6275 of 6296 Old 02-01-2017, 07:46 AM
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I have the Pioneer Elite VSX-90 7.2 AVR. I'm wanting to go to two subs and just read on another comment that it doesn't recognize two subs when running the MCAAC.. is this correct? Is that a good thing or bad thing? Should I run dual subs with this AVR? Also, it always sets the crossover back to 150hz. Is there no way to set each groups crossover separately? That seems to be a negative on Pioneer AVRs.
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post #6276 of 6296 Old 02-01-2017, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Do their newer AVRs still set LFE LPF and crossover frequencies the same, or did they finally decouple them?

Curious - Don
In the SC-95 they're still coupled. Not sure about the brand new ones.

My setup: Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 and center, Ascend HTM200SE surround, dual Rythmik L12's, Pioneer SC-95, Samsung PN60F8500
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post #6277 of 6296 Old 02-01-2017, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
I have the Pioneer Elite VSX-90 7.2 AVR. I'm wanting to go to two subs and just read on another comment that it doesn't recognize two subs when running the MCAAC.. is this correct? Is that a good thing or bad thing? Should I run dual subs with this AVR? Also, it always sets the crossover back to 150hz. Is there no way to set each groups crossover separately? That seems to be a negative on Pioneer AVRs.
One crossover frequency to rule them all!
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post #6278 of 6296 Old 02-01-2017, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by brianmlamb View Post
In the SC-95 they're still coupled. Not sure about the brand new ones.
Thank you. Hopefully they have changed the signal routing so the content between the crossover frequency and 120 Hz is not lost, but probably not...

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post #6279 of 6296 Old 02-01-2017, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Thank you. Hopefully they have changed the signal routing so the content between the crossover frequency and 120 Hz is not lost, but probably not...
Based on my REW data when I run a test tone on channel 4 (subwoofer LFE) with the crossover set to 80hz I'm getting a response all the way out to 120hz before the low pass filter kicks in. I think that means it's not attenuating the LFE channel. Would that be the correct?

My setup: Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 and center, Ascend HTM200SE surround, dual Rythmik L12's, Pioneer SC-95, Samsung PN60F8500
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post #6280 of 6296 Old 02-01-2017, 08:37 PM
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Seems like it, hope so!

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post #6281 of 6296 Old 02-02-2017, 12:20 PM
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My LX701 detected both of my subs immediately
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post #6282 of 6296 Old 02-02-2017, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by na_rsx View Post
My LX701 detected both of my subs immediately

I would hope so for a $1,600 AVR!
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post #6283 of 6296 Old 02-02-2017, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by na_rsx View Post
My LX701 detected both of my subs immediately
My SC-95 also, but one crossover for everything.
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post #6284 of 6296 Old 02-03-2017, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
I have the Pioneer Elite VSX-90 7.2 AVR. I'm wanting to go to two subs and just read on another comment that it doesn't recognize two subs when running the MCAAC.. is this correct? Is that a good thing or bad thing? Should I run dual subs with this AVR? Also, it always sets the crossover back to 150hz. Is there no way to set each groups crossover separately? That seems to be a negative on Pioneer AVRs.
I use two subwoofers with my SC-77 which also does not independently recognize the two subwoofers. MCACC treats them as one single subwoofer. I have both subwoofers outputting the exact same sound at the exact same level and at the same distance from the listening area. Having the second subwoofer helps to balance out frequency dips and peaks from standing waves. I'm very pleased with the results. You might do as well with a single subwoofer if you find that one perfect placement spot in the room. I don't think it is generally recommended to individually equalize multiple subwoofers anyway.

I'd recommend setting the crossover to 80Hz (unless you have a really compelling reason to set it somewhere else). Mine tries to set it at 100Hz. 150Hz seems unusual, although someone else told me of a similarly high setting recently.
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post #6285 of 6296 Old 02-03-2017, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
I use two subwoofers with my SC-77 which also does not independently recognize the two subwoofers. MCACC treats them as one single subwoofer. I have both subwoofers outputting the exact same sound at the exact same level and at the same distance from the listening area. Having the second subwoofer helps to balance out frequency dips and peaks from standing waves. I'm very pleased with the results. You might do as well with a single subwoofer if you find that one perfect placement spot in the room. I don't think it is generally recommended to individually equalize multiple subwoofers anyway.

I'd recommend setting the crossover to 80Hz (unless you have a really compelling reason to set it somewhere else). Mine tries to set it at 100Hz. 150Hz seems unusual, although someone else told me of a similarly high setting recently.
80Hz or 100Hz is the right crossover most of the time. 150Hz is crazy high, IMO.
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Help with Sub Setup for MCACC

Hello everyone. I just got a Samsung KS 8000, and was on a budget for my sound setup. Was able to get a slightly used Quintet III setup with a synergy 12" sub cheap from a friend and got a VSX-44 from accessories4less.

Anyways, to my question. What would you suggest I set the gain and low pass to on the sub before running MCACC?
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post #6287 of 6296 Old 02-05-2017, 11:15 AM
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Cool How to connect Dolby enabled surround backs such that

... MCACC will see them? I finally got 7.1.4 running on the SC-LX701 using my now replaced Denon S910W as the external amp and running the surround speakers. I have SP-EBS73-LR Dolby Atmos Elite Speakers connected to the SC-LX701 as surround backs and rear height speakers, but MCAAC won't see the surround backs, although it does see the Dolby Atmos "height" speakers that are part of these Pioneer "Dolby Atmos" speakers. The surround speakers are running off of the Denon which is feed from the surround pre-out of the 701.

On a non-MCACC level check all speakers sound off appropriately, but on the manual MCACC test, the rear rear surround speakers are now seen, but not the heights! Go figure.

And, I can't run MCACC auto for my 7.1.4 configuration because it says I don't have surround back speakers.

What am I doing wrong? I know I need the external amp to power the additional two channels needed for 7.1.4, but must it power the surround backs instead of the surround speakers?? I'm stumped. All suggestions welcome.

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post #6288 of 6296 Old 02-06-2017, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry Rosenberg View Post
What am I doing wrong? I know I need the external amp to power the additional two channels needed for 7.1.4, but must it power the surround backs instead of the surround speakers?? I'm stumped. All suggestions welcome.
I think you're asking the right question.

From page 9 of the basic manual:
Quote:
* 7: This unit consists of a 9 ch amplifier, so with this combination use an RCA cable to connect the power amplifier to the PRE OUT SURR BACK jacks, then connect the surround back speakers to the power amplifier.
This is the only option shown for connecting the additional power amp(s) for a 6.1.4 or 7.1.4 speaker channel configuration. Apparently when the 6.1.4 or 7.1.4 speaker channels configurations are set, the 9 internal amplifiers are configured to power the Front LR, Center, Surround LR, Height 1 LR, and Height 2 LR speaker terminals, leaving the Surround Back LR speaker terminals unpowered. I don't see any way of redirecting any of the internal amplifiers to power the Surround Back LR terminals when a 6.1.4 or 7.1.4 speaker channel configuration is selected.
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post #6289 of 6296 Old 02-06-2017, 06:22 AM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post
I think you're asking the right question.

From page 9 of the basic manual:


This is the only option shown for connecting the additional power amp(s) for a 6.1.4 or 7.1.4 speaker channel configuration. Apparently when the 6.1.4 or 7.1.4 speaker channels configurations are set, the 9 internal amplifiers are configured to power the Front LR, Center, Surround LR, Height 1 LR, and Height 2 LR speaker terminals, leaving the Surround Back LR speaker terminals unpowered. I don't see any way of redirecting any of the internal amplifiers to power the Surround Back LR terminals when a 6.1.4 or 7.1.4 speaker channel configuration is selected.
Makes sense except that when I did a Channel Level check from System Setup/Speakers, all 7.1.4 speakers emit tones. I must confess that in the middle of trying out this solution of running the external amp to power the surround backs, ARC stopped working on my Samsung UN65KS98000 and by the time I figured out where the problem was and rigged an optical cable, I decided I had spent enough time and aggravation on this project for one Sunday and I put it all back to its "pure," all Pioneer Elite, 5.1.4 configuration. Then ARC started working again last night, of course. So another day spent in home theater land but I am happy with 5.1.4 and it makes more sense in our small area. However, no doubt I will attempt 7.1.4 again one day so all information is valued.

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post #6290 of 6296 Old 02-06-2017, 06:38 AM
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Cool

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Originally Posted by primetime74 View Post
That's the thing, it worked before. Then it suddenly wouldn't come up.
I have had/have that problem, too, from time to time. Try cold booting (unplug and replug) the Pioneer and/or the TV.

Cold booting is actually Pioneer's first suggestion in the trouble shooting section of the manual for my SC-LX701.

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2016 Pioneer SC-LX701AVR/Samson Servo 300 Dolby Atmos 7.1.4
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Originally Posted by Larry Rosenberg View Post
I have had/have that problem, too, from time to time. Try cold booting (unplug and replug) the Pioneer and/or the TV.

Cold booting is actually Pioneer's first suggestion in the trouble shooting section of the manual for my SC-LX701.
Thanks Larry, but unfortunately I tried that a few times to no avail.
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post #6292 of 6296 Old 02-12-2017, 05:19 PM
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Cool Manual MCACC and 7.1.4

Finally got 7.1.4 running on my LX701 by connecting the surround backs from the AVR preouts to a Samson Servo 300! Yes, per the manual and advice here, the secret to this is apparently to run the surround backs to the external amplifier, and not the surrounds.

Auto MCACC saw all the speakers and calabrated them. System Setup/Speakers/Channel Level sees all of the speakers and I can adjust all levels there. However, Manual MCACC/Fine Channel Level no longer sees rear heights (Height 2). So I can't get them to sound off or make adjustments to the rear heights here. Is this a problem or merely a result of the 701 having only 9.1 internal amps?

FWIW, once I change the configuration back to 5.1.4, all speakers sound off and can be adjusted everywhere (except the surround backs, of course, which aren't active in this configuration).


Thanks in advance.

Living Room: 2016 Samsung UN65KS9800
2016 Samsung UBD-K8500 4K HDR Ultra HD Blu-Ray Player (x2, second in Den)
2016 Pioneer SC-LX701AVR/Samson Servo 300 Dolby Atmos 7.1.4
Den: 2014/15 Samsung UN65HU9000/SEK 3500 UHD TV
2016 Samsung 5.1 Channel HW-K550/SWA8000S Soundbar
Bedroom: 2016 Samsung UN49KS8000 SHUD TV; 2016 Samsung 2.1 Channel HW-K450 Soundbar
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post #6293 of 6296 Old 02-18-2017, 02:43 PM
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I seem to remember reading somewhere on the forums that Pioneer is planning to replace MCACC with something else next year (Dirac maybe?). Has anyone else heard this? I'm looking to replace my receiver but will wait an extra year if something better is coming out. Thanks.
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post #6294 of 6296 Old 02-18-2017, 02:48 PM
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I seem to remember reading somewhere on the forums that Pioneer is planning to replace MCACC with something else next year (Dirac maybe?). Has anyone else heard this? I'm looking to replace my receiver but will wait an extra year if something better is coming out. Thanks.
Think I found the answer to my own question. Found this announcement from Dirac from April 2016. It is discussed in another AVSForum thread here ( Is DIRAC coming soon to mid-priced AVR's ? ).

http://www.dirac.com/news/2016/4/19/...t-with-pioneer

Dirac announces strategic audio technology distribution agreement with Pioneer

April 21, 2016
Pioneer will distribute Dirac’s suite of audio optimization technologies to Japanese manufacturers of sound systems and additionally, will leverage the solutions within their consumer, commercial and OEM audio applications

Uppsala, Sweden – Swedish audio technology provider Dirac Research today announced an agreement with Pioneer Corporation to distribute their suite of digital technologies to the OEM audio market in Japan. The product categories cover computer speakers, sound bars, Bluetooth speakers, TV loudspeakers, portable audio devices, educational support products as well as amusement equipment featuring arcade games and others. Pioneer will also be leveraging Dirac solutions within a variety of consumer products and commercial audio applications.

“About three years ago, Dirac introduced us to their suite of digital sound quality optimization technologies,” commented Mr. Osamu Takechi,Senior General Manager of Pioneer Industrial Solutions Division. “Completely different from conventional virtual surround and/or equalization, the Dirac solutions are both theoretically and practically proven to fundamentally improve an audio systems’ performance. We were quite impressed with Dirac; hence, we decided to integrate their technologies into our newest speaker systems. We are now in a position to market these groundbreaking technologies in Japan.”

Specializing in digital room correction, sound field control and sound optimization, Dirac Research has developed a range of world-leading solutions tailored for different audio systems, such as speaker and earphone optimization, soundstage widening for multiple speakers, sound quality optimization for portable devices and digital room correction for HiFi systems.

“We are excited about the synergy between Dirac and Pioneer and look forward to delivering superior audio solutions to Japanese OEM’s,” commented Dr. Mathias Johansson, CEO of Dirac. “We anticipate that the integration of our advanced technologies with innovative hardware from Pioneer and the other Japanese manufacturers will establish new benchmarks for audio performance in a variety of product categories.” Johansson concluded.

Last edited by avdoc; 02-18-2017 at 04:01 PM. Reason: Added information
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post #6295 of 6296 Old Today, 07:05 AM
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I ran MCACC Pro on my new sc-lx801 yesterday and it showed that my left and right main and surround speakers were out-of-phase, my center and sub were both in-phase. I have Magnepans, so I don't know if it has something with them being dipole speakers? Although the center is also a dipole, it is directly facing the microphone when running MCACC whereas all the left and rights are angled. I went ahead and switched the polarity on all the left and right speakers and reran MCACC, and it said the phase was correct so I went ahead and left it that way. Sounds great so I'm happy, but just wanted to see if anyone else has had the same problem?
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post #6296 of 6296 Old Today, 09:13 AM
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Dipoles in general tend to "fool" phase detection, probably due to the back wave arrival. The AVR will automatically correct for that so the usual response is to double-check the speaker wires and, if they are OK, just move on and it MCACC (or whatever -- I had the same issues with Audyssey) do its thing. Nothing wrong with switching the wires but probably wasn't needed. I would not reverse them now.

Some other speakers also show up as out of phase, and there have been rare document cases where the speakers were actually assembled wrongly, but AFAIK in most cases it is simply speaker/room interaction or phase changes in the speaker's crossover and such that "fool" the room correction program.

If it sounds great, be happy, and avoid the "paralysis by analysis" rabbit hole...

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