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post #151 of 5609 Old 01-29-2009, 04:05 PM
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After running Auto MCAAC, I prefer to have my sub a little louder...is it best to turn the volume up on the actual subwoofer or turn it up with the receiver channel level through the manual SP setup.

Joe V.
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post #152 of 5609 Old 01-29-2009, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651 View Post

After running Auto MCAAC, I prefer to have my sub a little louder...is it best to turn the volume up on the actual subwoofer or turn it up with the receiver channel level through the manual SP setup.

I do it on the Pio. That way you have a reference to come back to.


bob
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post #153 of 5609 Old 01-29-2009, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651 View Post

After running Auto MCAAC, I prefer to have my sub a little louder...is it best to turn the volume up on the actual subwoofer or turn it up with the receiver channel level through the manual SP setup.

It doesn't make a much difference, but I'd say if you can stay close to "0" or below, use the receiver's control, otherwise use the sub's.

There's nothing magical about the setting, but there is more chance of some preamp distortion entering the system if the receiver's setting is too high. It's a small chance at worst, but I prefer to stay on the cautious side. Of course it's better not to crank the sub too high either. Lower than the 1:00-2:00 position is preferred. Hopefully you don't have one of the rare situations where you can't have both.
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post #154 of 5609 Old 01-29-2009, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

I read that 120-180ms is default (I think that was the numbers, but if not that then very close to it). But in another spot in the manual I got the impression that MCAAC evaluates you rooms reverb characteristics and make a delay setting based on that when in Auto MCAAC. Either way I will listen to teh Auto setting (whatever that may be) and 30-50ms and see what sounds best in my room.

Please let us know!




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post #155 of 5609 Old 01-29-2009, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

My 82 and 59 books show 80-160 in the diagram with the gray circles as default.

bob

You are right
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post #156 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Bump up the fine channel levels equally to all channels including sub by 8db or so depending on how much room is left (+10 max).

This really helped my 82 have more punch and kept the vol level lower (-30 vs -22, etc)


bob

After screwing around with mcacc for the last hour or so I ended up finding another solution. I did the pro-eq with 10-30 sec delay. It removed that caged/muffled sound that was o so annoying.
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post #157 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

You are right

I looked in my SC-05's manual and yes according to the diagramed examples it shows 80-160 as the default.
I would like to hear more opinions on whether or not 30-50ms is more beneficial in general. I have very flat speakers (Ascend) so I really don't think I want to take the reading to early and it still might be better to have it captured after room interaction




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post #158 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alkrio View Post

After screwing around with mcacc for the last hour or so I ended up finding another solution. I did the pro-eq with 10-30 sec delay. It removed that caged/muffled sound that was o so annoying.

Cool

what other timings did you try?


bob
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post #159 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 10:36 AM
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Would it be better using an SPL meter from Radio shack to setup speaker levels or does the Auto MCAAC do a decent enough job.

Joe V.
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post #160 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651 View Post

Would it be better using an SPL meter from Radio shack to setup speaker levels or does the Auto MCAAC do a decent enough job.

In my room, all my SPL meter accomplishes is verify that MCACC is very accurate.
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post #161 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

In my room, all my SPL meter accomplishes is verify that MCACC is very accurate.

Mine does sound good using the Mcacc...haven't tried using the spl meter...but will give it a shot. I was reading this on the blu ray forum. http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=38765

Joe V.
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post #162 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

I looked in my SC-05's manual and yes according to the diagramed examples it shows 80-160 as the default.
I would like to hear more opinions on whether or not 30-50ms is more beneficial in general. I have very flat speakers (Ascend) so I really don't think I want to take the reading to early and it still might be better to have it captured after room interaction

I think the idea is not just room interaction, but trying to accurately see what your speakers are doing themselves. Low frequencies may start out lower (in db) and then gain power, whereas high frequencies may start out lower but not accumulate as much power. So earlier readings would show that low frequencies need to be boosted, wheres later readings would show that they need to be attenuated. That is kinda how MCAAC put it. But there has to me more to Eq that just that otherwise MCAAC would just use 10-30ms as default and offer no options to change it.

Back to what I said earlier....try them out and see what sounds best in your room. I didn't see that much EQ differences in terms of EQ calibration adjustments when I used 30-50ms versus the default delay of 120-160ms. So I will probably compare default and 10-30 to see if i can get MCAAC to produce some noticeable differences.
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post #163 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651 View Post

Mine does sound good using the Mcacc...haven't tried using the spl meter...but will give it a shot. I was reading this on the blu ray forum. http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=38765

I'd done it that way for years, until I encountered the glories of MCACC. It gives me the same or better results with much less trouble.

I'll admit that I still poke around with my SPL meter and various test tones (because I'm an inveterate tweaker), and sometimes store modified settings in one of the MCACC memories. But I keep reverting to the settings MCACC created after experimenting with my own for awhile.
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post #164 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

Cool

what other timings did you try?


bob

I tried the 30-50(I think) and the default auto mcacc (whatever that is) I did it with all three eqs(ie front align, symetry and all channel adj) all channel at least in my mind is the best. Basiclly all the boomy base is gone the highs are cleaner and crisper and everything sounds louder even though channel level remained the same. I still need to try out 20-40 to see if it sounds any better.
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post #165 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

I'd done it that way for years, until I encountered the glories of MCACC. It gives me the same or better results with much less trouble.
I'll admit that I still poke around with my SPL meter and various test tones (because I'm an inveterate tweaker), and sometimes store modified settings in one of the MCACC memories. But I keep reverting to the settings MCACC created after experimenting with my own for awhile.

Your right...the Mcacc does sound better...better surround sound for sure. I guess my old trusty spl meter loses this battle. Like you I always have the need to experiment.

Joe V.
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post #166 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

I'd done it that way for years, until I encountered the glories of MCACC. It gives me the same or better results with much less trouble.

I'll admit that I still poke around with my SPL meter and various test tones (because I'm an inveterate tweaker), and sometimes store modified settings in one of the MCACC memories. But I keep reverting to the settings MCACC created after experimenting with my own for awhile.

Mac, I do exactly the same thing. I've been poking around with my RS SPL meter...like you, even to the point I'll save some of those settings in memory. Invariably, I still end up back to one of the settings MCACC set up.

I haven't been able to better the sound by doing it manually. But, as a "tweaker" I still keep trying.

Music so high you can't get over it....music so low you can't get under it!
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post #167 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Back to what I said earlier....try them out and see what sounds best in your room. I didn't see that much EQ differences in terms of EQ calibration adjustments when I used 30-50ms versus the default delay of 120-160ms. So I will probably compare default and 10-30 to see if i can get MCAAC to produce some noticeable differences.

Will do, let us know how the 10-30ms works for you




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post #168 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

I'd done it that way for years, until I encountered the glories of MCACC. It gives me the same or better results with much less trouble.

I'll admit that I still poke around with my SPL meter and various test tones (because I'm an inveterate tweaker), and sometimes store modified settings in one of the MCACC memories. But I keep reverting to the settings MCACC created after experimenting with my own for awhile.

I'm with you. Can't beat the MCACC results but I do use my SPL meter to bump up my sub +3 or 4db. I have an SVS PC Ultra that gives me bass I can hear and feel
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post #169 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RCJ View Post

I'm with you. Can't beat the MCACC results but I do use my SPL meter to bump up my sub +3 or 4db. I have an SVS PC Ultra that gives me bass I can hear and feel

I think that is a fairly popular strategy. I did the same until I got an SMS-1, which gave em an even better tool to accomplish that. I'm a step behind you, but on a similar track, with a 16-46 PC-Plus tuned to 12 Hz. (As well as a PB12-NSD in the rear to smooth out response.)
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post #170 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

I think that is a fairly popular strategy. I did the same until I got an SMS-1, which gave em an even better tool to accomplish that. I'm a step behind you, but on a similar track, with a 16-46 PC-Plus tuned to 12 Hz. (As well as a PB12-NSD in the rear to smooth out response.)

Sweet
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post #171 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 08:49 PM
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Please help. Im trying to set up my 5.1 surround sound with the MCACC for the first time and when I run the test it keeps telling me theres an error with the SB (surround back) Ive messed around with the speakers to make sure they are hooked up properly and found they are. Also when the test is performing it does send sound out of my rears so I know they are working but it just keeps saying error. What do I do now??

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post #172 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 10:12 PM
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Slcpilot

If you are runing 5.1 then you should not have anything connected to the Surround BACK speaker terminals. Those are used for either a 6.1 or 7.1 system.

Make sure you have your rear speakers connected to the surround speaker terminals and try MCACC again.
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post #173 of 5609 Old 01-30-2009, 11:17 PM
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Rjardine

Thanks for your advice, Im retarded and realized my mistake after my previous post. Thanks again though!
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post #174 of 5609 Old 02-01-2009, 10:34 AM
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I found 30-50ms to be better than 10-30ms, because 30-50ms sounded cleaner and less boomy. The earlier the capture time the less MCAAC attenuates your channel levels. I have a reverby room, so I want MCAAC to take into account the speakers, and some reverb. 10-30 didn't take reverb into account enough, and the default delay time took reverb into account too much. So 30-50ms was great for me, and I also preferred Symmetry to the other two. I did not juice the base, because I have come to prefer accuracy over boominess. The base is plenty with what MCAAc gave me and any more sounds slightly artificial. I did also activate THX Cinema mode, which adds some processing to what MCAAC already does. This mode really filled out the sound and added depth, richness, and power without distortion. I have no idea what it does but I like it. THX Cinema is not available on the US version, just the EU version I believe.

To summarize, the later the delay time the more it will thin out your sound. But the answer is not 0-20ms, because with a reverby room, you do want some thinning out, otherwise its a boom fest.
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post #175 of 5609 Old 02-01-2009, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

I found 30-50ms to be better than 10-30ms, because 30-50ms sounded cleaner and less boomy. The earlier the capture time the less MCAAC attenuates your channel levels. I have a reverby room, so I want MCAAC to take into account the speakers, and some reverb. 10-30 didn't take reverb into account enough, and the default delay time took reverb into account too much. So 30-50ms was great for me, and I also preferred Symmetry to the other two. I did not juice the base, because I have come to prefer accuracy over boominess. The base is plenty with what MCAAc gave me and any more sounds slightly artificial. I did also activate THX Cinema mode, which adds some processing to what MCAAC already does. This mode really filled out the sound and added depth, richness, and power without distortion. I have no idea what it does but I like it. THX Cinema is not available on the US version, just the EU version I believe.

To summarize, the later the delay time the more it will thin out your sound. But the answer is not 0-20ms, because with a reverby room, you do want some thinning out, otherwise its a boom fest.


What frequencies changed and how much between 30-50 and factory?

Did it change channel levels, too?

thx

bob
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post #176 of 5609 Old 02-01-2009, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

What frequencies changed and how much between 30-50 and factory?

Did it change channel levels, too?

thx

bob

Channel levels are not related to EQ calibration, so no, they did not change. But S-Wave and EQ change depending on delay time. I did auto mcaac custom....keep sp settings......and MCAAC checks your room for reverb and selects the appropriate delay time. I think. I know if you run straight auto mcaac then the delay is 120-160ms (or something close to that). But the manual hints that auto mcaac custom....keep sp settings....will check reverb of room and set delay. But I cannot be sure.

Again...what I did find (in my room at least) is that the lower the delay time.....the less attenuation of the lower frequencies. The longer delay time.....the greater the attenuation of the lower frewuencies. 125 hz most notably. There were some other changes throughout the frequency range as well. I liked 30-50ms. I have a reverby room, so I want attenuation....in the RIGHT PLACES. And that is precisely what MCAAC is great at according to my ears anyway.


I recommend running Auto MCAAC, then running Auto MCAAc Custom Keep SP settings. Then running advanced eq using 30-50ms and save all three correction curves (symmetry, fr align, all ch adjust)to three different presets, then compare. But I liked symmetry the best. That and front align was close, but there was just something slight smoother and more detailed in symmetry for me.
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post #177 of 5609 Old 02-01-2009, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

Channel levels are not related to EQ calibration, so no, they did not change. But S-Wave and EQ change depending on delay time. I did auto mcaac custom....keep sp settings......and MCAAC checks your room for reverb and selects the appropriate delay time. I think. I know if you run straight auto mcaac then the delay is 120-160ms (or something close to that). But the manual hints that auto mcaac custom....keep sp settings....will check reverb of room and set delay. But I cannot be sure.

Again...what I did find (in my room at least) is that the lower the delay time.....the less attenuation of the lower frequencies. The longer delay time.....the greater the attenuation of the lower frewuencies. 125 hz most notably. There were some other changes throughout the frequency range as well. I liked 30-50ms. I have a reverby room, so I want attenuation....in the RIGHT PLACES. And that is precisely what MCAAC is great at according to my ears anyway.


I recommend running Auto MCAAC, then running Auto MCAAc Custom Keep SP settings. Then running advanced eq using 30-50ms and save all three correction curves (symmetry, fr align, all ch adjust)to three different presets, then compare. But I liked symmetry the best. That and front align was close, but there was just something slight smoother and more detailed in symmetry for me.

Good work! BTW, the US version has THX Cinema as well, I use it all the time.
I would be interested in seeing your EQ numbers for 30-50ms against the default delay for auto MCACC. You can use "symmetry" if you prefer that one.

Thanks




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post #178 of 5609 Old 02-01-2009, 02:24 PM
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Stupid question - but - how do you select which memory setting you want to listen to?

I set 3, one for 5.1, one for 7.1 and one for stereo, but how do I toggle between them?

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post #179 of 5609 Old 02-01-2009, 02:35 PM
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you hit mcacc on your pioneer remote
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post #180 of 5609 Old 02-01-2009, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Good work! BTW, the US version has THX Cinema as well, I use it all the time.
I would be interested in seeing your EQ numbers for 30-50ms against the default delay for auto MCACC. You can use "symmetry" if you prefer that one.

Thanks

As far as I know the THX certification was dropped for the US model...and I believe that the THX proprietary listening modes (THX cinema, THX music, and THX games) were dropped as well. Are you sure that it is THX cinema that you use and not something else?

I don't know that EQ numbers would mean much since our rooms are different. Plus I am too lazy to get them. Sorry. I have spent enough time tweaking the receiver, and now it is time to just enjoy!

FYI, Pioneer recommends 30-50ms, so I would just go with that.
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