"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 60 - AVS Forum
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post #1771 of 5569 Old 02-27-2011, 05:53 AM
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It WILL measure(EQ, not just standing wave) for 3 positions, but the final calibration will be an average of the 3 measurements. I read somewhere(possibly here) that it will not be as accurate as having 1 measuring position.

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post #1772 of 5569 Old 02-27-2011, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Wrong! It does do EQ for 3 postions and standing wave is included.

Quote from the SC-27 manual, page 111 (SC-07 manual has the same text, page 44):

Quote:


STAND.WAVE Multi-Point (only available when the
Auto MCACC Menu above is EQ Pro & S-Wave) - In
addition to measurements at the listening position,
you can use two more reference points for which test
tones will be analyzed for standing waves
. This is
useful if you want to get a balanced flat' calibration
for several seating positions in your listening area

The function itself is called "Standing Wave multi-point".

Of course, everyone is free to interpret the usually unclear manual as they wish. Personally, I interpret the text above to mean that the readings at multiple locations affect only standing wave parameters.

I have done it a few times, but I can't recall if it goes through identical series of tests tones at the three locations. I seem to remember that the last series (which should be at the main listening position, according to the manual) has additional test tones (but I could be wrong).

Dan.
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post #1773 of 5569 Old 02-27-2011, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by info_dan View Post

Quote from the SC-27 manual, page 111 (SC-07 manual has the same text, page 44):



The function itself is called "Standing Wave multi-point".

Of course, everyone is free to interpret the usually unclear manual as they wish. Personally, I interpret the text above to mean that the readings at multiple locations affect only standing wave parameters.

I have done it a few times, but I can't recall if it goes through identical series of tests tones at the three locations. I seem to remember that the last series (which should be at the main listening position, according to the manual) has additional test tones (but I could be wrong).

Dan.


That would be the only way to know for sure. Unless it goes through the whole cadre of freq response tones at each position, it's just standing wave.

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post #1774 of 5569 Old 02-27-2011, 09:56 AM
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I was wondering if any of the MCACC experts could give me some advice.

Some background. Running a 5.1 system with a 1020. Energy RC70 fronts, LCR center, Bic F12 sub and Polk M40 rears. Room is top floor of a cape cod, front and rears are against the opposite knee walls (and under the roof angles if that makes sense). Lots of furniture (big bedroom) and carpet.

Before I ran MCACC system sounded pretty good, but since I ran it system sounds a bit, flat.....one person described it as very very "warm" Something seems missing. I just think it should be a bit more dynamic. Even pure direct is not sounding right.

The only setting that sounds close to what I like is "stereo focused" but that setting adds sibilance.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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post #1775 of 5569 Old 02-27-2011, 11:52 AM
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Hi, anybody could be so kind and explain me what happens when I change "Time Period" during the advanced MCACC calibration? How this change is reflected in the calibration and sound? I could not understand clearly the manual at this point.

Many thanks in advance!


From the VSX-32/33 Operating manual (Page 78):

5 If Advanced EQ Setup' is selected, select the
MCACC memory to be stored, then enter the desired
time setting for calibration, and then select START.5
Based on the reverb measurement above, you can
choose the time period that will be used for the final
frequency adjustment and calibration. Even though you
can make this setting without reverb measurement, it is
best to use the measurement results as a reference for
your time setting. For an optimal system calibration
based on the direct sound coming from the speakers, we
recommend using the 30-50ms setting.
Use / to select the setting. Use / to switch
between them.
Select the setting from the following time periods (in
milliseconds): 0-20ms, 10-30ms, 20-40ms, 30-50ms, 40-
60ms, 50-70ms and 60-80ms. This setting will be applied
to all channels during calibration.
When you're finished, select START. It will take about 2
to 4 minutes for the calibration to finish.
After the Acoustic Calibration Equalization is set, you are
given the option to check the settings on-screen
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post #1776 of 5569 Old 02-28-2011, 05:45 PM
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I am real new to surround sound and MCACC. Anyway, I have a 5.1 system and ran the basic MCACC. It set the crossover for my sub at 100. Here is my question. If I am watching regular TV and want my subwoofer off, can I just shut it off or will shutting it off mess up how the rest of my speakers are calibrated? I realize I can run the MCACC again without my sub and save that setting to a different memory setting, but I would like to avoid switching to different memory settings when not listening to my sub if i can avoid it. Thanks.
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post #1777 of 5569 Old 02-28-2011, 07:31 PM
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Hi Everyone...I'm new at this so be gentle...lol

My new Pioneer Elite SC-35 arrived today and when I got home from work I set it up and ran the auto MCACC. I followed the instructions from the first post on page 1...I did the All Ch Adjust and changed the speakers to small and crossover at 80 then ran it a second time with those settings and changed a couple of the speaker distances and the levels

I just have a couple of questions though. When I look at the advanced EQ settings for a preset. How come each speaker is set differently?

For Example

-----L------C-----R----SR-----SL
63
125 -1.5 +4.0 +2.0 -6.0 -1.5
250 +1.0 -0.5 +3.5 -5.0 -3.0
500 +3.0 -3.5 +3.5 +1.0 -1.0
1k +2.5 -1.0 0.0 +3.5 +3.5
2k +2.0 +1.5 0.0 +0.5 +2.5
4k +5.5 +6.0 +3.5 +2.0 +2.5
8k +7.0 +5.5 +7.0 +4.5 +6.5
16k -4.5 -4.5 -4.5 -3.5 -4.5
Trim -3.5 0.0 -1.5 -1.5 -2.5

For Speakers I'm Using:
JBL ES80's X2 (Fronts)
JBL ES25C X1 (Center)
JBL ES20 X2 (surrounds)

Is it normal for the EQ to show different settings for each speaker?

Any help on this would be great...

Thanks, Greg
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post #1778 of 5569 Old 03-01-2011, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieRob View Post

I am real new to surround sound and MCACC. Anyway, I have a 5.1 system and ran the basic MCACC. It set the crossover for my sub at 100. Here is my question. If I am watching regular TV and want my subwoofer off, can I just shut it off or will shutting it off mess up how the rest of my speakers are calibrated? I realize I can run the MCACC again without my sub and save that setting to a different memory setting, but I would like to avoid switching to different memory settings when not listening to my sub if i can avoid it. Thanks.

If you cut the power to the sub, the receiver does not know about it. So it cannot affect what is being sent to other speakers. So if you just want less bass when watching TV, then sure, go ahead and turn off the sub. Of course, what you hear won't be "accurate", but I guess that's not what you're looking for.

The speaker layout is the same for all MCACC settings, so you cannot have one setting with sub and another without.

Dan.
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post #1779 of 5569 Old 03-01-2011, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorylewis View Post

Hi Everyone...I'm new at this so be gentle...lol

My new Pioneer Elite SC-35 arrived today and when I got home from work I set it up and ran the auto MCACC. I followed the instructions from the first post on page 1...I did the All Ch Adjust and changed the speakers to small and crossover at 80 then ran it a second time with those settings and changed a couple of the speaker distances and the levels

I just have a couple of questions though. When I look at the advanced EQ settings for a preset. How come each speaker is set differently?

The EQ settings are done by MCACC to balance the sound as heard by the microphone. What is received at the listening position is affected not only by the speakers, but also, of course, by the room. So depending on the layout of the room and the furniture in it, the sound from the left and right speakers, for example, may be identical coming out of the speakers, but different once it reaches the microphone. So different EQ settings are required to equalize the frequencies at the microphone location. That's why the speakers all have different settings, which is perfectly normal.

You mentionned changing the speaker distances and levels. Why did you do this? Usually the distances mesured are pretty much spot on, and levels are pretty good as well. Did you change them "by ear" or do you have a meter?

Note that the sub will usually be mesured farther than actual because there is often additional processing done in the sub, so the sound takes a tiny bit longer to reach the mic, which results in a distance setting that is further than what a tape mesure tells you. What we want is not the physical distance, but the "delay distance", so the MCACC value should be good.

Dan.
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post #1780 of 5569 Old 03-01-2011, 06:45 AM
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Anyone know any insider information on if sub EQ is gonna implemented anytime soon?
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post #1781 of 5569 Old 03-01-2011, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

Anyone know any insider information on if sub EQ is gonna implemented anytime soon?

Pioneer? There are plenty of excellent standalone Sub EQ's on the market that work very well with Pioneer products.

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post #1782 of 5569 Old 03-01-2011, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Pioneer? There are plenty of excellent standalone Sub EQ's on the market that work very well with Pioneer products.

i can spend 700bux on a SVS EQ1 or pay 600 more for a Onkyo AVR with it built in XT32. I'd rather of a 500avr with the solution built in.
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post #1783 of 5569 Old 03-01-2011, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by info_dan View Post

If you cut the power to the sub, the receiver does not know about it. So it cannot affect what is being sent to other speakers. So if you just want less bass when watching TV, then sure, go ahead and turn off the sub. Of course, what you hear won't be "accurate", but I guess that's not what you're looking for.

The speaker layout is the same for all MCACC settings, so you cannot have one setting with sub and another without.

Dan.

Thanks Dan. I guess my concern was with the 100 crossover MCACC set. If, for example, I had a system with no sub at all, would there still be a 100 crossover or would there be a different setting? In other words, is the crossover setting taking sounds away from the other speakers that you would want those speakers to play if you had no sub? Or to put it differently, if i ran MCACC without my sub connected, would all settings be the same as they are when i run MCACC wit a sub? I hope this makes sense.
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post #1784 of 5569 Old 03-01-2011, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieRob View Post

Thanks Dan. I guess my concern was with the 100 crossover MCACC set. If, for example, I had a system with no sub at all, would there still be a 100 crossover or would there be a different setting? In other words, is the crossover setting taking sounds away from the other speakers that you would want those speakers to play if you had no sub? Or to put it differently, if i ran MCACC without my sub connected, would all settings be the same as they are when i run MCACC wit a sub? I hope this makes sense.

No sub, no crossover. With no sub, your speakers are set to "Large". This then means that the LFE bass goes to your main L & R speakers. You won't get the bass impact that a sub gives you. If you want to watch TV without a sub, then set your main speakers to Large and say "no" sub.

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post #1785 of 5569 Old 03-01-2011, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post
i can spend 700bux on a SVS EQ1 or pay 600 more for a Onkyo AVR with it built in XT32. I'd rather of a 500avr with the solution built in.
Personally, I would rather spend extra money on a seperate sub eq, and keep the awesome sound quality of my Pioneer Elite SC-27.

Nothing against those of you with Onkyo products, but for my money Pioneer Elite has a superior SQ. These days people are raging about EQ's whether they are Audyssey or MCACC or something else.

Call me old school, but EQ's are supposed to be the frosting on the cake not the cake. The room is the cake and that is where the bulk of your "tweaking" efforts should go in my opinion.

A "perfect" room needs no EQ.
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post #1786 of 5569 Old 03-02-2011, 12:36 PM
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I just bought and installed some new Surround Speakers so yesterday I ran thru alot of MCACC setups to get everything BEST I could.....tested out a couple of movies last night and everything sounded GREAT - except - the dialog[sp] kept turning volume up and then the action scenes would run you out of here BUT still hard to really hear the "spoken word".
In the past I have just raised the volume of the Center Speaker.....BUT.....is there something else that one can do that is technically better...............?

TKS michael
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post #1787 of 5569 Old 03-02-2011, 12:50 PM
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I have Polk Audio RM6200 satellites with a PSW250 Polk Audio Sub. Per the speakers manual, I am to connect the Front L/R to the Sub. Then feed the sub with Front L/R from AVR and set AVR to have the Fronts as LARGE and Sub=None.

Will I have issues in configuring my 919AH-k and setting up with MCACC?

Anything I should be aware of?

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post #1788 of 5569 Old 03-02-2011, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kezug View Post

I have Polk Audio RM6200 satellites with a PSW250 Polk Audio Sub. Per the speakers manual, I am to connect the Front L/R to the Sub. Then feed the sub with Front L/R from AVR and set AVR to have the Fronts as LARGE and Sub=None.

Will I have issues in configuring my 919AH-k and setting up with MCACC?

Anything I should be aware of?

I would buy new speakers and sub! That Pio reciever can do HD for BluRay playing and those are old style speakers and sub. They might have some issues with the new HD codex in BluRay audio.

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post #1789 of 5569 Old 03-02-2011, 08:22 PM
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My sub says I should set the crossover at 80. MCACC set the crossover at 100. I have also read that 80 or lower is a good crossover so you can't hear where the bass is coming from. With that in mind, should I be changing my crossover to 80 or should I be trusting MCACC and leave it at 100? Thanks.
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post #1790 of 5569 Old 03-03-2011, 04:14 AM
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I get how MCACC is for Multi Channel (aka 5.1, 6.1, 7.1)
but what about just 2.1 for listening to music (CDs or any other 2 channel sound).

Do I have to disable MCACC or switch to a format in my receiver that is for 2.1?

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post #1791 of 5569 Old 03-03-2011, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kezug View Post

I get how MCACC is for Multi Channel (aka 5.1, 6.1, 7.1)
but what about just 2.1 for listening to music (CDs or any other 2 channel sound).

Do I have to disable MCACC or switch to a format in my receiver that is for 2.1?

Set your remote for "Auto Surround".This depends on your reciever model. In your reciever manual go to the pages that has the remote control instructions and layout. On my SC-37 manual, page 12 is the instructions for remote control display.

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post #1792 of 5569 Old 03-03-2011, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieRob View Post

My sub says I should set the crossover at 80. MCACC set the crossover at 100. I have also read that 80 or lower is a good crossover so you can't hear where the bass is coming from. With that in mind, should I be changing my crossover to 80 or should I be trusting MCACC and leave it at 100? Thanks.

You can change it to 80.

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post #1793 of 5569 Old 03-03-2011, 09:05 AM
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Here is the question:
With your pioneer what are you setting your receiver to when watching a movie, tv shows ???

Eg I found for blueray movies trueHD sound I will set it to direct And for regular tv I flip flop between auto surround and thx movie and optimum.
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post #1794 of 5569 Old 03-03-2011, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieRob View Post

My sub says I should set the crossover at 80. MCACC set the crossover at 100. I have also read that 80 or lower is a good crossover so you can't hear where the bass is coming from. With that in mind, should I be changing my crossover to 80 or should I be trusting MCACC and leave it at 100? Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

You can change it to 80.

no. he should not "lower" the xover point... mcacc is setting it at 100 for a reason...

to the op... either leave it at 100 or "raise" it... do NOT lower it...

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post #1795 of 5569 Old 03-03-2011, 11:08 AM
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no. he should not "lower" the xover point... mcacc is setting it at 100 for a reason...

to the op... either leave it at 100 or "raise" it... do NOT lower it...

The sub should be the same or higher value to avoid a hole in the sound. With sub at 80, it will try to ignore higher frequencies. AVR will be sending below 100 to sub and above 100 to speakers, leaving the 80-100 gap without a home. At least that's what I understand.
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post #1796 of 5569 Old 03-03-2011, 11:56 AM
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It is very doubtful that anyone will notice the difference between 80 and 100 hz with the LFE channel. That is why THX spec are set at 80 hz. Also, if you tell MCACC that you have THX speakers in the setup, then the crossover is always set at 80 hz anyway.

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post #1797 of 5569 Old 03-03-2011, 06:30 PM
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i have a question. what are the resulting sound effect you will hear with a higher MCACC capture delay time VS what many of you use the 30~50ms. the reason i ask is because i could've swore the default MCACC's auto capture delay time of 80~160 sounds better than the change of 30~50ms i made to the advanced manual calibration. it just seems 80~160ms gives it a wider spatial sound. feels like the environment is bigger if that makes any sense. then again, it could all be in my head.

TV: Samsung 60inch 60ES8000 LED TV,
Sound System: Pioneer VSX 1120-K, 2x JBL Stadium fronts, 1x JBL EC35 center, 4x JBL L820 surrounds, 1x JBL SUB12 for a complete 7.1
Headphones: Sennheiser HD598, HD650 headphone, Audio Technica ATH-AD700, AD900X
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post #1798 of 5569 Old 03-03-2011, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

It is very doubtful that anyone will notice the difference between 80 and 100 hz with the LFE channel. That is why THX spec are set at 80 hz. Also, if you tell MCACC that you have THX speakers in the setup, then the crossover is always set at 80 hz anyway.

That wasn't the question, as I read it. It was should my two settings be different.
Are you suggesting to purposely set the sub to 80 and the AVR crossover to 100, leaving a gap, or are you suggesting that they match? Mine match.
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post #1799 of 5569 Old 03-03-2011, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael42 View Post

That wasn't the question, as I read it. It was should my two settings be different.
Are you suggesting to purposely set the sub to 80 and the AVR crossover to 100, leaving a gap, or are you suggesting that they match? Mine match.

As the OP and a real newbie, I am now really confused. I thought there was only one crossover I had to worry about and that was the crossover MCACC sets on my AVR for the sub. What do you mean when you reference the sub's crossover versus the AVR's crossover?
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post #1800 of 5569 Old 03-03-2011, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael42 View Post

That wasn't the question, as I read it. It was should my two settings be different.
Are you suggesting to purposely set the sub to 80 and the AVR crossover to 100, leaving a gap, or are you suggesting that they match? Mine match.

I'm not talking about the "subwoofer". I'm talking about the crossover setting for the sub in the reciever speaker menu. That is where you set your speakers to small when MCACC after calibration sets them to large.

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