"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 5548 Old 02-04-2009, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by IVAN222 View Post

Thank you gamelover and others for your interestings informations about MCACC. Especially I am interested by the "time "of begennig mesure of micro (30-50 ms or other. Is it possible the "time" is different according the distance beetwen loudspeakers and microphone combinate with the accoustic of the room ?
To give a personal information : I tried use Velodyne's microphone with a mix table on MCACC . At the good level it works OK for distances but was strange on reverberation and phase control.
I think MCACC great, bonjour de France.

Ivan222

Sorry, can't help you there. I am just an enthusiastic amateur and beginner. Good Luck and welcome to the forum.
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post #212 of 5548 Old 02-06-2009, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by nezff View Post

I had a onkyo with audyssey before this pioneer elite. Audyssey does not to the job you think with the sub. sometimes it boost frequencies it shouldnt and lower others. good luck.

Yep, I've found not everybody is happy with Auto-EQ of *any* type.

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Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Please don't discount Pioneer because of this. It does do standing wave calibration which I think helps the lower frequencies a bit.

Thanks, Gov, I love my Pioneer, but I've drank the Kool-Aid with Audyssey. If the actual engineers who designed MCACC were in this thread, like they are in the Audyssey thread, it might be different. Standing wave calibration doesn't come close to what Audyssey does in the low subwoofer area.

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Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

Sub calibration isn't something that's really effective in ANY AVR that I'm aware of (regardless of whether they use Audyssey or MCACC....and, I've used both, in different AVRs).

The only "good" way to do this is with some outboard subw EQ.

Funny you should mention that.
SVS is about to come out with the be-all and end-all of outboard subwoofer EQ, lots of people in the subwoofer threads are salivating over it. Guess what programming its using? Yeah... Audyssey.

I've done the SPL meter and test tones thing, and I'm done with it. I want something that can calibrate *all* my speakers, including the sub.
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post #213 of 5548 Old 02-06-2009, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew View Post

Yep, I've found not everybody is happy with Auto-EQ of *any* type.



Thanks, Gov, I love my Pioneer, but I've drank the Kool-Aid with Audyssey. If the actual engineers who designed MCACC were in this thread, like they are in the Audyssey thread, it might be different. Standing wave calibration doesn't come close to what Audyssey does in the low subwoofer area.



Funny you should mention that.
SVS is about to come out with the be-all and end-all of outboard subwoofer EQ, lots of people in the subwoofer threads are salivating over it. Guess what programming its using? Yeah... Audyssey.

I've done the SPL meter and test tones thing, and I'm done with it. I want something that can calibrate *all* my speakers, including the sub.

In other words "you want to set it and forget it"?

Bill
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post #214 of 5548 Old 02-06-2009, 11:50 AM
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"Thanks, Gov, I love my Pioneer, but I've drank the Kool-Aid with Audyssey. If the actual engineers who designed MCACC were in this thread, like they are in the Audyssey thread, it might be different. Standing wave calibration doesn't come close to what Audyssey does in the low subwoofer area."

Yes, Audyssey seems to impress most people that actually take the time to know how to use it properly.
And I agree that Pioneer's standing wave calibration does not come close to what Audyssey is capable of doing to a subwoofer.

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post #215 of 5548 Old 02-06-2009, 01:07 PM
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I really like this MCACC. Awhile back I posted some pics of the right surround channel showing weakness in the lower frequencies. This dragged down the channel pair. Probably due to acoustic damping in the room. After EQ, damn near flat across the frequencies. Good job Pioneer.
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post #216 of 5548 Old 02-06-2009, 02:42 PM
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My take is Audyssey has the potential to be better in the bass. It also has the potential to do more damage to the highs. I really don't like the idea of trying to do any more than gentle tone shaping or timbre matching to the highs. Overall, I prefer MCACC's 'do no harm' approach to EQ and I like the fact that it tells you everything it's doing and gives you full manual control to override it. But I don't mind (actually prefer) setting up the sub with an external EQ.

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post #217 of 5548 Old 02-06-2009, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by NeoE46 View Post

I just purchased VSX-1018 this weekend. Had the Denon 1609. Audyssey seemed to work pretty good, but the MCACC seems to sound better. I also added a new external amp though, so some of this may be attributable to the extra power available.

My question about MCACC is can you change the X-over frequency for each group of speakers (Front, Center, Rear, Back, etc.)? 80, the recommended THX frequency is too high for my mains and too low for the center and surround channels. With Audyssey, the recommended LFE X-Over is 120hz, however this is overriden by the individual group settings. Anybody have any ideas if this can be done in MCACC?

Bump. Can the crossover frequency be changed for each group of speakers?
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post #218 of 5548 Old 02-06-2009, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by NeoE46 View Post

Bump. Can the crossover frequency be changed for each group of speakers?

No, sorry

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post #219 of 5548 Old 02-07-2009, 06:45 AM
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What are you guys using to place the mic on when taking the calibrations? I don't have a tripod handy so I just lay the mic on top of a stiff pillow that I place on top of a TV tray. This gets me to about ear height when in seated position.
Do you guys think that this is exceptable or is the pillow to absorbant of the test tones maybe goofing the test up?

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post #220 of 5548 Old 02-07-2009, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

What are you guys using to place the mic on when taking the calibrations? I don't have a tripod handy so I just lay the mic on top of a stiff pillow that I place on top of a TV tray. This gets me to about ear height when in seated position.
Do you guys think that this is exceptable or is the pillow to absorbant of the test tones maybe goofing the test up?

I'd really try to find a cheap tripod at a garage sale or....



bob
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post #221 of 5548 Old 02-08-2009, 06:30 AM
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Would changing the response time have a significant affect, and I mean significant, on bass response? I re-q'd and for the first time ever ran with a different time at something like 40 - 50ms (or whatever that interval actually is). Watched Babylon A.D. and had doors and windows shaking like crazy and actually had to back off the master volume by quite a bit. Makes me want to rerun at lower numbers and see what happens.
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post #222 of 5548 Old 02-08-2009, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

I'd really try to find a cheap tripod at a garage sale or....

Just go to Walmart, Kmart or Target and pick up a cheap tripod like this. they are travel tripods and are 9" when closed and 42" when expanded. The go for about $13 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=9722062

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post #223 of 5548 Old 02-08-2009, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

What are you guys using to place the mic on when taking the calibrations? I don't have a tripod handy so I just lay the mic on top of a stiff pillow that I place on top of a TV tray. This gets me to about ear height when in seated position.
Do you guys think that this is exceptable or is the pillow to absorbant of the test tones maybe goofing the test up?

You really need to use a tripod if you want it to be accurate.

"What do you mean it's too loud? My ears aren't even bleeding yet!"

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post #224 of 5548 Old 02-08-2009, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jqmn View Post

Would changing the response time have a significant affect, and I mean significant, on bass response? I re-q'd and for the first time ever ran with a different time at something like 40 - 50ms (or whatever that interval actually is). Watched Babylon A.D. and had doors and windows shaking like crazy and actually had to back off the master volume by quite a bit. Makes me want to rerun at lower numbers and see what happens.

I noticed the same thing at 30-50. I'm ready for 20-40


bob
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post #225 of 5548 Old 02-08-2009, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jqmn View Post

Would changing the response time have a significant affect, and I mean significant, on bass response? I re-q'd and for the first time ever ran with a different time at something like 40 - 50ms (or whatever that interval actually is). Watched Babylon A.D. and had doors and windows shaking like crazy and actually had to back off the master volume by quite a bit. Makes me want to rerun at lower numbers and see what happens.

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Originally Posted by spongebob View Post

I noticed the same thing at 30-50. I'm ready for 20-40


bob


Hmmmm, I found the opposite. When I moved the delay shorter I found that I lost bass response and the sound became empty and thin.


Maybe time to re-run those shorter delays and see if, maybe, I was wrong. I'll bet every room is different too, so what works one way for you guys, might not work the same for me. My room has nightmare dimensions though, a cube with ceilings within 1ft of a multiple of the width. Can't wait until my new house is finished. A new media room with proper dimenstions will probably be the best upgrade I have ever experienced.

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post #226 of 5548 Old 02-08-2009, 02:40 PM
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Hmmmm, I found the opposite. When I moved the delay shorter I found that I lost bass response and the sound became empty and thin.


Maybe time to re-run those shorter delays and see if, maybe, I was wrong. I'll bet every room is different too, so what works one way for you guys, might not work the same for me. My room has nightmare dimensions though, a cube with ceilings within 1ft of a multiple of the width. Can't wait until my new house is finished. A new media room with proper dimenstions will probably be the best upgrade I have ever experienced.

Check and record your 9 band eq settings before and after. That way you can see what the settings actually do to each channel.

My little living room is very dead... drapes, couches, carpet, etc.


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post #227 of 5548 Old 02-09-2009, 06:29 AM
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The last couple of times when I ran MCACC I plug in the mic and when it starts to run I'm getting a loud speaker hum out of all the speakers. It does an ambient noise check and its OK. I don't recollect that this happened on the initial quick MCACC first run. I do not have any detected speaker hum in normal AVR operation. Sounds like a feedback thing (just like a ground fault type hum). The mic wire isn't crossing any DC or AC lines. Is this hum normal? Does anyone or everyone hear this?

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post #228 of 5548 Old 02-09-2009, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by gamelover360 View Post

That is weird. Make sure the speaker is not loose in some manner. Then verify that their is no physical damage to the speaker that is causing a weird sonic output that is throwing MCAAC off. How to do that I am not sure. Maybe listen to test tones manually and listen for inconsistencies. Then you could of course manually set the speaker distance using your own ears and manual MCAAC.

But my worry would be that MCAAC will screw up the EQ and standing wave because of a bad speaker reading from that one speaker. Also check your connections.

Also is this in auto MCAAC, not some other mode where you have told it to only run certain calibration parts. Maybe it is sticking with the bad reading over and over because you are telling it in some inadvertent way.

All good ideas; I may swap my surround speakers, see if that makes a difference. Also maybe take the speaker off the wall, set it like 5' direct in view of the mic, see if it changes anything.

When the speaker distance routine is running, the left surround speaker sounds like it's making the same click as the other ones, but it just sets the distance to one inch. Wierd.

I wonder if there could maybe be a wierd echo or something on a wall confusing it, who knows?
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post #229 of 5548 Old 02-09-2009, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ZBoomer View Post

All good ideas; I may swap my surround speakers, see if that makes a difference. Also maybe take the speaker off the wall, set it like 5' direct in view of the mic, see if it changes anything.

When the speaker distance routine is running, the left surround speaker sounds like it's making the same click as the other ones, but it just sets the distance to one inch. Wierd.

I wonder if there could maybe be a wierd echo or something on a wall confusing it, who knows?

Speaker out of phase? Di-poles?


bob
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post #230 of 5548 Old 02-09-2009, 06:01 PM
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has anyone had any problems with their pioneer elites and the preouts? Im trying to rule out that my elite is having noise on its preouts and going to my new emotiva.
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post #231 of 5548 Old 02-09-2009, 07:36 PM
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No problem with my 03 and my Emotiva XPA-3 or UPA-7, nezff. No hum, no hiss.

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post #232 of 5548 Old 02-10-2009, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Stew4msu View Post

No problem with my 03 and my Emotiva XPA-3 or UPA-7, nezff. No hum, no hiss.

surely a little hiss which is normal is coming out of the tweeters huh?
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post #233 of 5548 Old 02-10-2009, 09:12 AM
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Perhaps. I haven't placed my ear next to any of the speakers to find out for sure, but I don't hear any hiss at all from my seating position.

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post #234 of 5548 Old 02-11-2009, 04:26 AM
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I had this happen the very last time I ran MCACC. I had never had it happen before and it is not present during normal listening or while a test is actually running. Didn't appear to have any affect on the results. I plan to do some more today so I will see if it is still present.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgribbles View Post

The last couple of times when I ran MCACC I plug in the mic and when it starts to run I'm getting a loud speaker hum out of all the speakers. It does an ambient noise check and its OK. I don't recollect that this happened on the initial quick MCACC first run. I do not have any detected speaker hum in normal AVR operation. Sounds like a feedback thing (just like a ground fault type hum). The mic wire isn't crossing any DC or AC lines. Is this hum normal? Does anyone or everyone hear this?

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post #235 of 5548 Old 02-11-2009, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jqmn View Post

I had this happen the very last time I ran MCACC. I had never had it happen before and it is not present during normal listening or while a test is actually running. Didn't appear to have any affect on the results. I plan to do some more today so I will see if it is still present.

Thanks for the feedback, no pun intended. I'll be running this again in the next day or so, also. I'll check the parameters files to see if there is any difference in the EQ. I'm pretty sure I have a set of parameters from when it didn't happen. Puzzling.

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post #236 of 5548 Old 02-11-2009, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mrgribbles View Post

The last couple of times when I ran MCACC I plug in the mic and when it starts to run I'm getting a loud speaker hum out of all the speakers. It does an ambient noise check and its OK. I don't recollect that this happened on the initial quick MCACC first run. I do not have any detected speaker hum in normal AVR operation. Sounds like a feedback thing (just like a ground fault type hum). The mic wire isn't crossing any DC or AC lines. Is this hum normal? Does anyone or everyone hear this?

My VSX-91THX does the exact same thing. I thought it was odd but did not worry about it too much since I am going to replace the Pioneer with a dedicated pre-pro once I find something I like.

I guess I'll send it in to be looked at by my local Pioneer service center once I find a replacement to be sure.
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post #237 of 5548 Old 02-11-2009, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ZBoomer View Post

Regarding MCACC; the last three times I've ran it, it sets the speaker distance for my left surround speaker as one inch; anyone seen this happen?

Ok, I seem to have fixed the problem. I had to reposition my left-rear speaker, 45-degrees rotated forward. My surrounds have two tweeters, 90-degrees apart, with a midrange between them, and apparently there were echoes or something throwing off the speaker distance routine.

New position, works perfect again. Wierd!
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post #238 of 5548 Old 02-12-2009, 02:11 PM
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Does anyone else feel that MCACC sets their sub's trim level too hot? I have tried re-doing the auto channel level numberous times, and every time it sets my speakers to almost perfect, but the SW hot.

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post #239 of 5548 Old 02-12-2009, 02:40 PM
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^^^ Actually I think most find it sets the sub a bit low for most people's taste, maybe you don't like bass?
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post #240 of 5548 Old 02-12-2009, 03:02 PM
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I find that MCACC never sets the sub flat with the speakers. Speakers come in at 75 db and sub also comes in at 75 db. Sub should be 72-73 db to be flat with speakers.

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