"OFFICIAL" Pioneer MCACC thread - Page 99 - AVS Forum
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post #2941 of 5545 Old 01-22-2012, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post

I don't have the same receiver but I have dealt with the Serial to USB adapter and some work by themselves, and others don't. I posted this just a few days ago...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21493432

It may not be your problem, but in case it helps. Good luck.

Thanks for that. I got the first screen where it says receiving, then a 2nd window pops up that also says receiving, then that changes to the message about "Command Error Occurred, Please try again. Illegal data size."

So it seems the connection is working, but how big is the file?

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post #2942 of 5545 Old 01-22-2012, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

So it seems the connection is working, but how big is the file?

small excel csv files, about 33-35 KB

Steve
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post #2943 of 5545 Old 01-22-2012, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

small excel csv files, about 33-35 KB


Ok thanks, so these are small. Given there is an option to save a file in Excel as CSV, can I manually import the data? I just don't understand why if the PC and AVR can connect, why it won't send the data.

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post #2944 of 5545 Old 01-22-2012, 07:41 PM
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Have the sc57. Acoustically treated room. Bowers Wilkins CM9s as fronts, cmc2, and cm5s as surrounds. Speaker placement is correct.

Ran MCACC, don't know how to make sense of doing manual EQ settings. Someone said raising the 200hz, 500hz, and 1khz rating. IDK what to change and how much to lol. Any good place to start or whatnot?
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post #2945 of 5545 Old 01-22-2012, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVMAN1991 View Post

Have the sc57. Acoustically treated room. Bowers Wilkins CM9s as fronts, cmc2, and cm5s as surrounds. Speaker placement is correct.

Ran MCACC, don't know how to make sense of doing manual EQ settings. Someone said raising the 200hz, 500hz, and 1khz rating. IDK what to change and how much to lol. Any good place to start or whatnot?

Follow the instructions on page 1 of this thread. I just re-ran MCACC with my B&W 600 series yesterday using those steps. Didn't even need to adjust my reverb/time delay settings. Sounds great after re-running it in the "keep sp settings" mode without any changes for me. At least would be a good start for you.
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post #2946 of 5545 Old 01-22-2012, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millerrh View Post


Follow the instructions on page 1 of this thread. I just re-ran MCACC with my B&W 600 series yesterday using those steps. Didn't even need to adjust my reverb/time delay settings. Sounds great after re-running it in the "keep sp settings" mode without any changes for me. At least would be a good start for you.

I agree also as another poster pointed out at once you know you ran MCACC correctly you are mostly adjusting for "preference" not "reference". I say mostly because while I just ordered an SC-55 I feel the lack of a sub eq is a major missing element which my next receiver must have. But I also plan on having better subs by then too.
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post #2947 of 5545 Old 01-23-2012, 08:42 AM
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All-

So what is the verdict on MCACC and dipoles? I did a search on this thread for dipole and read all the responses, and it appears MCACC may misread the dipoles...other times it doesnt. I know on my Yamaha I have to run YPAO with my surrounds in bipole, let it calibrate, then switch them to dipole otherwise YPAO freaks out. Im waiting deliver of my new VSX52 and trying to learn as much as possible about this, as Ive always been a Yammy guy.

Ive got a 5.1 system. So run MCACC with surrounds in dipole, or bipole and switch them after its done?
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post #2948 of 5545 Old 01-23-2012, 08:45 AM
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I just had to manually adjust the levels on my dipoles, it set them way too high. Other than that it worked fine
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post #2949 of 5545 Old 01-23-2012, 11:55 AM
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All that usually "messes up" is the phase reading and MCACC will correct for that. Run it and be happy. It does fine on my all-Magnepan (fronts, center, surrounds, backs) setup.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #2950 of 5545 Old 01-23-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post


MCACC is setting my right and left speakers to -10db when doing the db/spl leveling of the channels. Is -10 the lower limit ? I'm using Klipsch RF3's and I'm curious if they're efficient enough that maybe mcacc cant pull them back down enough to match the center (rc3).

Re-quoting myself as I didn't really get much of an answer.

MCACC is bottoming out trying to adjust my speakers to 75db during the test tone portion. They're at -10db for the channel level adjustment.

Is there a way to get around this ? Basically this means my left & right speakers are not level matched and are probably too loud. Secondly, in the per channel EQ adjustment, there is a "Trim" value on the far right. how does this differ from the channel level adjustment ?
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post #2951 of 5545 Old 01-24-2012, 07:18 AM
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you could try and go into manual level control to see if -10 is the bottom by trying to set it lower. My understanding is that level and trim are same thing. You could just manually raise all levels by the same amount so that the ones at -10 are at say -8. Don't know what this actually achieves though.

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post #2952 of 5545 Old 01-24-2012, 10:06 AM
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Was watching Kung Fu Panda 2 with my 6 year old the other day, and MAN! The MCACC setup makes our system sound FANTASTIC!

LOVE the Bass Response we get...

Kindest Regards,

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post #2953 of 5545 Old 01-24-2012, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

Re-quoting myself as I didn't really get much of an answer.

MCACC is bottoming out trying to adjust my speakers to 75db during the test tone portion. They're at -10db for the channel level adjustment.

Is there a way to get around this ? Basically this means my left & right speakers are not level matched and are probably too loud. Secondly, in the per channel EQ adjustment, there is a "Trim" value on the far right. how does this differ from the channel level adjustment ?

From what I can work out, the "trim" for this section is to help maintain an overall level balance, because if MCACC pull frequencies out, the overall level drops, and the trim is increased. If MCACC boosts frequencies, the trim decreased. This is in part to counter the effects of wrong eq techniques that made eq a bad thing in the 1980s and so on. Eq is not bad, just people didn't do it properly.

If you need to pull down the trim to get to +75dB, I can't see it being a problem. It might be problem if you had to increase it though.

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post #2954 of 5545 Old 01-24-2012, 05:19 PM
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For my L&R, it levels them to -10db, and the eq trim is +1.5db or something.

I suppose I will manually have to adjust my channels since mcacc can't do it. Which means going out and getting an spl meter.
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post #2955 of 5545 Old 01-24-2012, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

For my L&R, it levels them to -10db, and the eq trim is +1.5db or something.

I suppose I will manually have to adjust my channels since mcacc can't do it. Which means going out and getting an spl meter.

I didn't play with the trim after my last MCACC, but it appears you do have the option to manually shift it. In your case down. Yes use a SPL meter to check all channels are outputting to +75dB / C / Slow.

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post #2956 of 5545 Old 01-26-2012, 09:14 AM
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I ran the Full advance MCACC on my new vsx-1121 with three different EQ types. And this is the first time that I can ever recall that my levels and distances were SPOT ON! The distances were downright perfect. And it calibrated my 5 speakers to 76db across the board!!!! I've always had to adjust +/-5db or so. Not this time. Pretty amazing since I've never been so close on the initial run.
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post #2957 of 5545 Old 01-26-2012, 10:05 PM
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i just got a pioneer VSX-921-K. i only have a 5.1 setup for now. when i run the mcaa i get errors. sometimes it says too much ambient noise then other times it says err for the back surround sound speakers. they both work as i can hear sound coming from them. then other times it just shows dashes ----- for the surround speakers. front, center and sub all say yes. does anyone know what this is and what i can do to troubleshoot this to isolate the problem?
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post #2958 of 5545 Old 01-26-2012, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by breynolds47 View Post

other times it says err for the back surround sound speakers. they both work as i can hear sound coming from them. then other times it just shows dashes ----- for the surround speakers.

If your running 5.1, are your [side] surrounds connected to the 'Surrounds' or Back Surrounds? The worst thing home theatre components ever did was label Surrounds as "rears". Just from your description, it appears that is what you have done. Sound will play from the Back Surrounds if you have speakers connected and you would get dashes and an error for Surrounds if nothing is connected to them.

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post #2959 of 5545 Old 01-27-2012, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

If your running 5.1, are your [side] surrounds connected to the 'Surrounds' or Back Surrounds? The worst thing home theatre components ever did was label Surrounds as "rears". Just from your description, it appears that is what you have done. Sound will play from the Back Surrounds if you have speakers connected and you would get dashes and an error for Surrounds if nothing is connected to them.

you are correct. i moved surround speaker wires from back to just surround. the mcaa finishes with no errors now. thank you for the quick response and very easy fix.

a few other questions i have

is it normal to get different speaker levels and distances each time mcaa is run? every time i run it the levels change.

i have a ps3 slim i use for blu-ray. what is the best, bitstream or pcm and what would be the best setting to use for streaming Netflix? i noticed that dts-ma shows as multichannel on bitstream but if i change it to pcm it changes to dts-ma 7.1 channel.

what gets you better simulated surround sound for watching tv that is just in stereo, dolby prologic or neo?
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post #2960 of 5545 Old 01-27-2012, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breynolds47 View Post

you are correct. i moved surround speaker wires from back to just surround. the mcaa finishes with no errors now. thank you for the quick response and very easy fix.

Your welcome and glad to read that it worked.
Quote:


a few other questions i have

is it normal to get different speaker levels and distances each time mcaa is run? every time i run it the levels change.

If your not placing the mic in the exact same position (including height) then yes, you will get different results each time.

Quote:


i have a ps3 slim i use for blu-ray. what is the best, bitstream or pcm and what would be the best setting to use for streaming Netflix? i noticed that dts-ma shows as multichannel on bitstream but if i change it to pcm it changes to dts-ma 7.1 channel.

Bitstream should give you DTS HD MA, DD TrHD plus PCM. PCM just outputs all formats as PCM. Technically they should all sound the same, but there are some that want to see DTS Master Audio on the front panel.

Sorry don't have netflix, so can't help there. You probably should bitstream from it too.

Quote:



what gets you better simulated surround sound for watching tv that is just in stereo, dolby prologic or neo?

[/quote]

I use THX Cinema 2 for pretty much everything. If the AVR was not THX (I would not have bought it ) certified, I would probably use PLII. I used to like Neo 6, but went off that for some reason. THX Neural is good too, but THX Cinema 2 gives me the most enveloping sound field. I've had my AVR (VSX-1018) since Jan 09 and have not upgraded it as I have not found anything close for the same $$$. I need the pre-outs as I have active LCRs.

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post #2961 of 5545 Old 01-27-2012, 10:17 AM
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Quick question and might be off topic ... I posted it on the VSX94/92TXH thread but it's been lonely there the last week or so...
I had the firmware updated through a Service Center a few months ago..I was wondering if it's smart or needed to do a reset on the 92 after a update of the firmware?
I am planning on doing a new full MCACC in the next few weeks FYI

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post #2962 of 5545 Old 01-27-2012, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

If your running 5.1, are your [side] surrounds connected to the 'Surrounds' or Back Surrounds? The worst thing home theatre components ever did was label Surrounds as "rears". Just from your description, it appears that is what you have done. Sound will play from the Back Surrounds if you have speakers connected and you would get dashes and an error for Surrounds if nothing is connected to them.

Are you saying the only time you would use the 'Back Surround' connection is with a 7.1 system? Meaning all 5.1 systems should use 'Surround', regardless of their actual physical location?

Sorry, I'm just trying to clarify... not confuse
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post #2963 of 5545 Old 01-27-2012, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 65Cobra427SC View Post

Are you saying the only time you would use the 'Back Surround' connection is with a 7.1 system? Meaning all 5.1 systems should use 'Surround', regardless of their actual physical location?

That is correct. Most 7.1 AVRs won't work properly -- if at all -- with speakers connected to the back surround terminals and nothing connected to the surround terminals.

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post #2964 of 5545 Old 01-27-2012, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

That is correct. Most 7.1 AVRs won't work properly -- if at all -- with speakers connected to the back surround terminals and nothing connected to the surround terminals.

Mine are connected properly but this made it much easier to understand and explain... very interesting... thanks.
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post #2965 of 5545 Old 01-27-2012, 05:59 PM
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Back Surround is an EXtension to the 5.1 layout, hence the name EX as in Dolby Digital EX.

The issue is that for years, the "surround" speakers in many AVRs were labeled as "rears" and it seems from reading the last few posts, this misinformation actually stuck. If you only run 5.1, then you need to connect your "side Surrounds" to the "Surround" connections, not the "back Surround" connections, even if you place the surround speakers at the back of the room.

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post #2966 of 5545 Old 01-28-2012, 05:28 PM
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I am familiar with Audyseey but not with MCACC.

I am trying to advise a friend buy his first AV receiver to use with the famous set of inexpensive Andrew Jones-designed Pioneer speakers, including the subwoofer which goes down to about 40 Hz.

I told him he should get a receiver with Audyssey MultEq or its equivalent. He saw the Pioneer VSX-1021 at Costco and I am trying to determine whether its room-correction technology is the equivalent of Audyssey MultEq (which equalizes the subwoofer). Or is the MCACC in the VSX-1021 more like Audyssey 2EQ which does not equalize the subwoofer?

Or does it matter since his small sub only goes down to 40 Hz?

TIA and sorry if this question has been answered already. A quick search did not turn up the answer.
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post #2967 of 5545 Old 01-28-2012, 06:46 PM
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MCACC does not EQ the sub. It does offer phase compensation and multiband room EQ for all the other speakers. It also allows the user to tweak the compensation if desired. So, it is different, not necessarily better or worse. XT32 is a significant step up, at least on paper and to a lot of users, but again you have to go the Pro route to be able to tweak Audyssey.

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post #2968 of 5545 Old 01-30-2012, 12:18 AM
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1.) MCACC may show the wiring or polarity wrong with dipole speakers. Proceed running MCACC and everything will be fine.

2.) Speaker distance is based to the speed of sound waves hitting the mic. Subwoofer distance is usually off the most. This is not a problem due to MCACC adjusting for opitmal listening at the sweet spot/s.

3.) MCACC goes to -12 so readings of minus 10 are ok. Most Klipsch users will have speaker levels set in the negative numbers. Only with RF 82II or higher/equivalent may level settings be a problem. There are mic attenuators that can be used in these special cases.

4.) X/O settings are based the the weakest speakers frequency response. Ideally set the X/O at least 3 db higher than the weakest speaker frequency response. approx. 10 above that frequency response is a good round number to shoot for. I use a X/O of 100 and do not fee I am missing and bass since below this point things are redirected to the sub. Since I have 4 klipsch tower speakers I have tried lower X/O and did not feel that it enhanced my listening experience.

5.) MCACC dose a better job in room correction that most other programs. MCACC does not EQ below 63 hz. MCACC can be adjusted whereas, Audyssey can't. Audyssey does use 8 filters for the subwoofer. which is better, depends.

6.) Sending lower frequencies to the subwoofer is better because most towers cannot reproduce those frequencies as effortless as most sub. For a speaker to do as good a job, as a good sub, it would have to match the volume size of the sub, match the piston throw of the sub driver and have has large a woofer. Two 8 in woofers can't not match one good 12 in woofer. Most low frequencies do not add the presence effect of higher frequencies and are not as important in the overall listening experience in my opinion. Therefore the EQ below 63 Hz is not that big of an issue for me.

Off loading low frequencies to the sub allows the other speakers to produce the frequencies that they do best. These are general principals and not brick and mortar. Following these principals has generally lead to a good listening experience for me.

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post #2969 of 5545 Old 01-30-2012, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post

2.) Speaker distance is based to the speed of sound waves hitting the mic. Subwoofer distance is usually off the most. This is not a problem due to MCACC adjusting for opitmal listening at the sweet spot/s.

The speed of sound should not change on frequency, just altitude and temperature?

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post #2970 of 5545 Old 01-30-2012, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post


3.) MCACC goes to -12 so readings of minus 10 are ok. Most Klipsch users will have speaker levels set in the negative numbers. Only with RF 82II or higher/equivalent may level settings be a problem. There are mic attenuators that can be used in these special cases.

AHA! I have Klipsch towers and they always get set in the negative numbers. I end up raising all my levels by the same amount within MCACC; probably placebo, but I think it sounds better to my ears. Kind of like having a higher input level coming from your sources to your amp sounding better (or is that a Snopesable comment?).

What is RF 82II?
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